And while they're being "fixed up"?
16 per cent of rapists will rape again within 12 years and almost 50 per cent will commit some other crime within 5 years.
Keeping them on a watch list makes perfect sense.
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12 and 13-Year-Old Girls Raped by two Classmates in Auditorium, Police Say
- Thread starter El Sloth
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And while they're being "fixed up"?
16 per cent of rapists will rape again within 12 years and almost 50 per cent will commit some other crime within 5 years.
Keeping them on a watch list makes perfect sense.
There are some crimes that kids will be kids does not and never will be an acceptable defense. Rape is a serious enough offense they need to be dealt with severely. They need to be locked away from society for awhile which in their case would probably be some sort of mental facility. When they turn 21 put them up for reevaluation and if they are capable of returning to society release them on probation.
Falcs
Banned
They should be locked up for at least 25 years or so.
There is no fucking way at 13 you do not know that rape is wrong.
I don't give a shit that they're considered children still. They knew what they were doing was wrong and they did it anyway. They are a danger to society. Lock them up.
There is no fucking way at 13 you do not know that rape is wrong.
I don't give a shit that they're considered children still. They knew what they were doing was wrong and they did it anyway. They are a danger to society. Lock them up.
That study tracks men who had been out of prison for a period of 12 years.
Surely you would concede that intervening with therapy on barely pubescent boys is different than men who have spent over a decade in a prison climate.
CornBurrito
Member
I'd imagine a high percent of people sent to prison end up committing some other crime within 5 years given that the current prison system is conducive to instilling criminal behavior in people.
So should 13 year olds be allowed to vote or consent to sex with adults? Serious question.
EdibleKnife
Member
This. It's possible that the parents were neglectful but you'd have to think about what would that mean. What kind of neglect is the kind that turns a kid into a killer or rapist? What kind of neglect is the kind that makes someone commit a crime when they're older as opposed to younger? Just saying the parents should be punished due to neglect isn't solid.
The poster I'm talking with doesn't believe in the sex offender registry at all whatsoever.
Is the current prison system conducive to instilling rapist behaviour in the 16 per cent that do it again?
Better put every convicted person on a watch list then.
Sex crimes are treated differently for a reason.
And that reason is?
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Crimes of a sexual nature evokes a stronger feeling of anger and disgust.
People rationalize a lot of other crimes based on wants and needs. Sex crimes have no other motive except to hurt someone else. The survivors also suffer much longer than victims of other crimes.
Actually criminal justice studies have shown that harsher punishments actually correlate with increased recidivism.
This makes no sense. Many murders are not based on need, and sex is a want. Watch list all criminals or none. This separate sex offender shit is stupid.
Yeah, pretty much. Was hoping Stet had an actual rational argument.
Murderers serve how much time in comparison? That's a really bad example for you to have pulled.
Most rapes are committed by serial predators.
The Faceless Master
Member
i'd like to know what % of wrongfully convicted people with overturned convictions go back for legit crimes...
virtuoso88
Member
I prefer if they can't take care of their kids correctly, don't have them (or at least not as many), of course enforcing that is impossible.
I find the older my daughters get, the more these kind of stories hit home. My oldest is 12 now, and I cannot imagine the aguish and rage the victims and their families are experiencing right now.
This was a crime committed by minors, and they should be tried as such. That's not saying they should get a light sentence - it should be severe. But severe with the understanding that we're talking about kids who are not fully developed. I don't really understand the cries to try them as adults - they are not such.
This was a crime committed by minors, and they should be tried as such. That's not saying they should get a light sentence - it should be severe. But severe with the understanding that we're talking about kids who are not fully developed. I don't really understand the cries to try them as adults - they are not such.
The Faceless Master
Member
and conversely, serial killers commit a tiny fraction of murders.
Call for increased jail sentences then. :/
Gonna need a citation on that. And it still doesn't impact on the listing all sexual criminals. Lots of eople on the sex offender registries are not rapists.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
There's this (which is just someone's thesis
http://www.jjay.cuny.edu/wrongly_convicted_thesis_10.5.07.pdf
And I also came across this neat thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocent_prisoner's_dilemma
EdibleKnife
Member
I agree with the sentiment of a family knowing their limits before having kids, but things can always change. Parents that were in a position to care for a kid at one point in time may not be in the same position years later.
Falcs
Banned
No. That's different. You're talking about the right to participate in something vs committing a serious crime.
A 13 year old won't be educated enough to understand politics. But they WILL know that rape is seriously wrong, just like murder.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
Come on man. Something is wrong with you if you think that shit WOULDN'T"T affect them permanently. It scars you. It's RAPE.
CornBurrito
Member
As opposed to the vast majority of people over 18?
The human brain isn't even fully developed at 13. There's a difference been knowing right from wrong and fully understanding why something is wrong.
I didn't say people should be on the sex offender registries if they aren't rapists. I asked in the contexts of people who have committed rape. And increased jail sentences cost more than a watch list and, as many people have said, are apparently tantamount to teaching crime.
EndlessSky
Member
I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) but the reason we try minors in a less severe way than adults is because their brains aren't fully developed and they don't always know right from wrong, or understand the gravity of their choices. And it seems to me at least that we try minors as adults only when the crime is extreme, but that doesn't negate the reason why we try minors as minors in the first place, which is why I don't support trying minors as adults.
Can anyone enlighten me why we should ever try minors as adults?
Falcs
Banned
It's easier to just let all over 18s vote than to test the entire population to see if their educated enough to vote before allowing them to. At 13, it's extremely unlikely. At 18 you should be educated enough by then.
If you don't understand why rape or murder or something equally asserous is wrong by 13, then your parents should be locked up for being shit.
I could understand if a 5 year old killed someone, but a teenager? No excuse (unless you have a mental illness)
CornBurrito
Member
Good thing that I'm not advocating for them getting no punishment at all. Minors are minors. We're regressing back in time by not treating child criminals as minors.
Manmademan
Member
wrong.
https://rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-offenders
And the "Serial criminal" aspect only comes into play because being arrested and thrown into prison in and of itself makes you more likely to be involved in crime when you're released.
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
In Japan, as far as I know, they NEVER charge minors as adults. There was a 14 year old kid who told his classmate that he saw a turtle in the river. When he get the kid to come over he killed him, cut off his head, and ejaculated on his corpse. While in prison he fell in love with his female counselor and tried to kill her by stabbing her with a pen. He was in prison for 6 years and is out now and nobody knows where he is.
So yeah, stuff like that. Also violent rape which studies have shown people don't grow out of.
They are beyond help. People never recover from jail sentences. I read a story of a guy that did 15 years for second degree murder killed his wife to be just a few days ago.
Manmademan
Member
Amazing what people come up with. Where do these impressions come from, I wonder.
Chainsawkitten
Member
Except a publicly available registry does not make them less likely to rape again.
Also, you realize 16% recidivism rate is lower than almost all other crimes, right? Recidivism rates for all offenses are 40%. Recidivism rates for child offenders are even lower, at between 4% and 10%. If the argument is high recidivism rates, there should be a publicly available registry for ALL crimes.
The simple fact is that sex offender registries has not proven to reduce sexual assault at all.
Here's Human Right Watch's report Raised on the Registry about putting child offenders on the sex offenders registry. You can skip right to the Human Rights and Registration of Youth Sex Offenders part if you want to. Spoiler:
The Human Rights Watch organisation are not fans.
Bigboss242
Banned
Something is extremely wrong with our society.
There really should be a system in place that has a psychiatrist evaluate the children to determine if they should be charged as an adult or not. And then from there the court can try the person based on the evaluation. Things like this have no one size fits all situation, it's completely fucked.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Maybe we should be looking into preventing these sorts of acts in the first place. Two lives have been scarred and possibly ruined, it doesn't make sense to make it four. Punishment is definately necessary, but I think ya'll a swinging too big a sword considering their ages.
Jail is not a fucking solution. I'm just gonna chalk up some of your posts as emotional. Though it seems like sending people to jail for long periods of time is done more out of anger and vengeance than as a last resort to rehabilitate. Everyone screams longer sentences, but how does that help? I wish all that emotion and anger could be channeled more into preventing these type of things from happening than wanting to punish them for committing such crimes. They're still children, and they didn't raise themselves, so if you're gonna be angry be sure to share some of that anger with the parents too as most of the time they're partly to blame.
John Kowalski
Banned
LOUD NOISES!!!
The study I linked was referenced by RAINN themselves in their College recommendations, and the data is newer than the studies referenced on that page. An individual rape is much more likely to be committed by a serial predator than by a one-time offender.
This is the kind of thing where you're going to get bad apples regardless of how much you try and "teach" them otherwise. Obviously, changing culture/values is important, but it will never be a full solution. (Of note: the large decrease in violent crime over the last ~50 years is highly likely to be primarily the result of removing lead from gasoline and paint.)
frostshade
Neo Member
I'm wondering if something is dreadfully wrong with society in general.
School needs to improve their security if a boy was able to rape and have sex multiple times before getting caught though. Especially in an auditorium.
School needs to improve their security if a boy was able to rape and have sex multiple times before getting caught though. Especially in an auditorium.
School officials? More like the parents didn't teach them shit.
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