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[Hagi]

Seriously, some of you people are fucking disgusting. These are all children we are talking about. If anything where the hell were the school officials that are supposed to be responsible for these children while at school?

Life imprisonment is fucking ridiculous no doubt but I don't think it should be such a shock that people dismiss age as an excuse when it comes to children committing awful acts of violence that are generally attributed to adults. That is why you get the whole adult crime means adult time shit.

Personally I have no idea how you would tackle such a crime with a 14 year old perpetrator, it boggles the mind that you could attack someone that way as an adult never mind someone barely into their teens. All I know is that you have two young girls who have been horribly attacked and there has to be consequences for that.

 

[Vilam]

I don't see any perceivable difference between 13 and 14, especially considering they committed the act together. Try them both as adults.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

I know this may sound silly but I think the extraordinarily easy access kids have to porn these days is a contributing factor in these sorts of acts.

 

[Dragonborn]

I don't see any perceivable difference between 13 and 14, especially considering they committed the act together. Try them both as adults.

Yep, these arbitrary age decisions are just stupid. If they're going to try the 14 year old as the adult, they can also do it for the 13 year old. Hell, if you're older than 9, you should know that rape, murder, etc doesn't fly and I've no issue with them being in prison for the rest of their lives. IF they're doing stuff like that at that age, I'd rather they not be part of society at all.

I'm sure every single guy on GAF had plenty of urges at that age (hell every single guy on Earth), yet the great, great majority would never rape, because it's so obviously wrong, even that age. The parents should also be brought in, and if they have an other children CPS should step in and have a serious look at the families.

 

[davepoobond]

I don't see any perceivable difference between 13 and 14, especially considering they committed the act together. Try them both as adults.

Apparently you don't see a difference between 13, 14 or 18 either.

 

[PirateKing]

Come on man. Something is wrong with you if you think that shit WOULDN'T"T affect them permanently. It scars you. It's RAPE.

You're replying to a victim here, more than once. I know how it feels, I have recovered.

 

[BeforeU]

How is this even possible. I mean honestly. Is this even physically possible for such a small kid to get horny and violent in a way that he did this horrible act? Fuck man.

 

[-COOLIO-]

I find the older my daughters get, the more these kind of stories hit home. My oldest is 12 now, and I cannot imagine the aguish and rage the victims and their families are experiencing right now.

This was a crime committed by minors, and they should be tried as such. That's not saying they should get a light sentence - it should be severe. But severe with the understanding that we're talking about kids who are not fully developed. I don't really understand the cries to try them as adults - they are not such.

yup.

 

[Ninman]

Jail is not a fucking solution. I'm just gonna chalk up some of your posts as emotional. Though it seems like sending people to jail for long periods of time is done more out of anger and vengeance than as a last resort to rehabilitate. Everyone screams longer sentences, but how does that help? I wish all that emotion and anger could be channeled more into preventing these type of things from happening than wanting to punish them for committing such crimes. They're still children, and they didn't raise themselves, so if you're gonna be angry be sure to share some of that anger with the parents too as most of the time they're partly to blame.

Totally agree with this, I work in a juvenile court, the most common crime we have after robbery is rape, so I've seen many cases like this, just today a 15 year old was sentenced to four years, does not seem that much but recovery is possible, and Im grateful the judges I work with doesnt have the mindset as you guys, if not, the jails would be full unnecessarily. Work for the community, therapy and appropriate programs to encourage social consciousness DO WONDERS.

Judging them as adults and lock them for a long period of time, is not the solution to cases like this.

srry for the english.

 

[radioactivez0r]

Rapists should receive treatment like everyone else.

No registry. No cruel and unusual punishments. Fix them up so they can do things without being a danger to others around them.

The thing that makes this complicated is that it's as much a socioeconomic problem as anything else.

Parents who have are overworked and live stressful day-to-day lives are not going to be as emotionally or even physically available for their children as they should be. This can be due to circumstances well beyond their control as they were simply dealt a really shitty hand in life. If we really want to solve these problems we have to address the poverty issue at the core of our society. That's simple fact.

Regarding the article you linked, do you have anything else? It explicitly states that there is a separate program for violent offenders (which I believe rape qualifies as) and mostly talks about "low risk" offenders, I assume non-rapists. The article title itself seems disingenuous, as the article doesn't actually answer that question at all.

 

[Popnbake]

I can see the problems with charging a minor as an adult.

There have been several shows with criminals being interviewed years after they committed acts like murder and rape as children/teenagers. Expressing regret and realizing that what you've done as a teenager was an idiotic decision while being in prison has to be a horrible experience. Even adults can have that feeling after commiting a crime.

There really should be a system in place that has a psychiatrist evaluate the children to determine if they should be charged as an adult or not. And then from there the court can try the person based on the evaluation. Things like this have no one size fits all situation, it's completely fucked.

Not really a one size fits all situation.

Both the 13 year-old and 14 year-old are being charged with rape but the 13 year-old is expected to be charged as a minor.

There are likely some hidden details about the 14 year-old and his actions which made them believe he was mature enough to be tried as an adult. Investigators will decide if that will be the case for him so there could be some past behavior history behind it.

Guess we'll find out more later on.

 

[antonz]

I can see the problems with charging a minor as an adult.

There have been several shows with criminals being interviewed years after they committed acts like murder and rape as children/teenagers. Expressing regret and realizing that what you've done as a teenager was an idiotic decision while being in prison has to be a horrible experience. Even adults can have that feeling after commiting a crime.



Not really a one size fits all situation.

Both the 13 year-old and 14 year-old are being charged with rape but the 13 year-old is expected to be charged as a minor.

There are likely some hidden details about the 14 year-old and his actions which made them believe he was mature enough to be tried as an adult. Investigators will decide if that will be the case for him so there could be some past behavior history behind it.

Guess we'll find out more later on.

I could see them arguing the 14 year old being the oldest was the ringleader who pushed the other teen to do it so he will be treated harsher

 

[BumRush]

Poor girls

As a father of a newborn girl, this kind of story makes me physically ill.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Prison sentences for rape are not uniform. A study made by the U.S. Department of Justice of prison releases in 1992, involving about 80 percent of the prison population, found that the average sentence for convicted rapists was 11.8 years, while the actual time served was 5.4 years. This follows the typical pattern for violent crimes in the US, where those convicted typically serve no more than half of their sentence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_rape#Punishment_of_assailants

So, if we treat them as adults, they should get about 5.4 years in prison.

But sure, why not give them life in prison. You can murder someone and walk in, what 15 years? Life for rape seems reasonable. I'm sure they had their full capacities when they did it and a great understanding of consequences. At age 14, I was doing my mom's taxes and preparing dinner.

Actually, no I wasn't. I think I rode my bike into a steel pole. That's the mental capacity of a 14 year old. Yeah, I knew it wasn't smart. But ummm...I was a dumb ass.

 

[entremet]

I don't see any perceivable difference between 13 and 14, especially considering they committed the act together. Try them both as adults.

The empathy centers of the brain are not fully formed in teenagers. It's the reason why children and teens can be so cruel.

So no, we have juvenile rehabilitation laws for a reason.

Terrible story all around.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

I know this may sound silly but I think the extraordinarily easy access kids have to porn these days is a contributing factor in these sorts of acts.

And videogames, dont forget videogames

 

[rokkerkory]

Put em away forever

 

[OrlanisWorks]

Throw those shits in a cage with some books for a decade.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

There was a kid on my peewee football team, he was troubled. His parents thought some discipline through football would help out, it didn't. He was in middle school when he followed a girl into a bathroom and fingered her. We never heard from him again

 

[Vilam]

Apparently you don't see a difference between 13, 14 or 18 either.

Nope, not in a rape case. The 13, 14, and 18 year old all equally know how wrong it is.

 

[lensoftruth]

like most Junior High schools in NYC it's a big auditorium and at that time 12:30PM it will be empty and kids sneak off. sad to say it's easy enough to get around the guards and not be caught.

Guards? At a school? Please elaborate.

 

[acheron_xl]

Guards? At a school? Please elaborate.

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun. Or so I've heard.

 

[Brianâ˜]

what the serious fuck.

this is disgusting.

they should be tried as adults.

imagine if one of the girls get pregnant. ugh.

at least go to jail.

 

[Marky Mark]

I wonder what the difference is between the 13 and 14 year old boys for one to be tried as an adult? Subscribed for clarification as more becomes known...

 

[POWERSPHERE]

I was still terrified of my penis at this age.

 

[acheron_xl]

I wonder what the difference is between the 13 and 14 year old boys for one to be tried as an adult? Subscribed for clarification as more becomes known...

The cynic in me thinks the 14 year old kid is black and the 13 year old kid isn't. It's probably something else, but that's what my mind went to.

 

[Marvel]

Scum.

Try them as adults, they knew what they were doing and the consequences of such acts at that age.

 

[GamerJM]

I don't think they should be tried as adults but I don't think they should get off easy either. Make them undergo some very, very severe therapy, put them in juvie for a while, and if they ever commit any sort of crime for the rest of their lives then they deserve life.

 

[Alienous]

Undoubtedly they knew the context of what they were doing.

As such they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[Kinokou]

~95% of people manage to figure out that rape is wrong just fine. I have no problem with locking away the other 5%.

Fixed this for you, let's not pretend like only guys rape just because these two kids have an Y chromosome.

Other than this, I haven't got anything to add since I feel like throwing up my lunch now.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Well, this is a horrible story. How messed up do you have to be to perform such an act? I wonder how they lured the girls inside if access is supposed to be restricted.

 

[Hip Hop]

Guards? At a school? Please elaborate.

What's so surprising about this?

 

[MikeDown]

WHY ARE WE YELLING?? I DON'T THINK THEY DO!!!!

IN 2004 THE NEW YORK COURT OF APPEALS HELD THAT A PORTION OF THE STATE'S DEATH PENALTY LAW WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL! IN 2007, THEY RULED THAT THEIR PRIOR HOLDING APPLIED TO THE LAST REMAINING PERSON ON THE STATE'S DEATH ROW!

 

[Ingueferroque]

You're replying to a victim here, more than once. I know how it feels, I have recovered.

You were raped? More than once? As a 12 year old girl? In your class?

 

[DarkKyo]

Don't forget that humans are truly animals. This is horrible but if you leave stupid little animals alone for awhile they are bound to do some disgusting shit.

 

[wildfire]

I know it's unconstitutional but let's bring back chemical castration. Or real castration. I'm fine with either.

Then you want to be governed by the drug cartels. But I should inform you they love to castrate more than sex offenders.

 

[Chainsawkitten]

I know it's unconstitutional but let's bring back chemical castration. Or real castration. I'm fine with either.

Chemical "castration" has only been shown to lower recidivism rates when it is done voluntarily. What you're asking for is not a safer society. You're asking for revenge.

 

[wildfire]

Nope, not in a rape case. The 13, 14, and 18 year old all equally know how wrong it is.

No really they don't appreciate a large portion of the ramifications of what they did. Don't any of you "hard lifers" and "minors == adults" remember the various levels of immaturity of your peers during sex ed classes? Even if you didn't have that class I'm sure you hung out with kids and made comments that distorted a lot what sex is about.

How is this even possible. I mean honestly. Is this even physically possible for such a small kid to get horny and violent in a way that he did this horrible act? Fuck man.

Yes. All these kids are within the puberty range and young boys can be really violent. It's rare to see the 2 combined for a rape case but the individual cases aren't shocking.

 

[Dilly]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_rape#Punishment_of_assailants

So, if we treat them as adults, they should get about 5.4 years in prison.

But sure, why not give them life in prison. You can murder someone and walk in, what 15 years? Life for rape seems reasonable. I'm sure they had their full capacities when they did it and a great understanding of consequences. At age 14, I was doing my mom's taxes and preparing dinner.

Actually, no I wasn't. I think I rode my bike into a steel pole. That's the mental capacity of a 14 year old. Yeah, I knew it wasn't smart. But ummm...I was a dumb ass.

Imitating Jackass is not compareable to raping an unwilling person of your age that was probably begging said rapist to stop. Get the fuck out of here, this is not something that just happens in a short moment of stupidity, if during the act nothing in your brains says you're doing something severely wrong, that has nothing to do with "kids being kids"

The could throw these kids of a cliff for all I care, the world won't miss them.

 

[davepoobond]

Nope, not in a rape case. The 13, 14, and 18 year old all equally know how wrong it is.

yeah, what's another 4 years after all. heck, i'd throw an 8 year old rapist in jail for the rest of his life, too. he's old enough to know how wrong it is. there's no difference between any of the ages under 18 with any of the ages over 18.

none at all.


plus, we need to feed our incarceration system with more people. that'll teach everyone.

 

[CornBurrito]

Nope, not in a rape case. The 13, 14, and 18 year old all equally know how wrong it is.

Except they don't. The brain isn't fully developed at 13 or 14. Especially higher functions like empathy.

yeah, what's another 4 years after all. heck, i'd throw an 8 year old rapist in jail for the rest of his life, too. he's old enough to know how wrong it is. there's no difference between any of the ages under 18 with any of the ages over 18.

none at all.


plus, we need to feed our incarceration system with more people. that'll teach everyone.

Yep. This is the problem with seeing age as simply a number. It isn't. There are very real physical differences in the body AND brain. And a year or even a few months can make a world of difference. For example, human children don't pass the mirror test until like 18 months of age. A 17 month old kid won't typically pass. Most 18 month year olds will. If one month can make such a large difference I have no doubt 4 years could as well.

 

[Teremap]

Man... I can't keep reading these threads. It's just too depressing.

I'll just leave this here:

[...] when it comes to thinking about any act of invention or
problem solving, we must get as close to the root purpose (manifest)
or the root cause (problem) as possible, respectively, to make the
most accurate assessment for action. Just as tools and techniques for
potential are only as viable as the understanding of their foundational
purpose, actions toward problem resolution are only as good as the
understanding of the root cause. This might seem obvious, but this
awareness is often missing in many areas of thought in the world
today, especially when it comes to society. Rather than pursuing such
a focus, most social decisions are based around traditional customs
that have inherent limits.

A simple example of this is the current method of human
incarceration for so called “criminal behavior”. For many, the solution
to offensive forms of human behavior is to simply remove the
individual from society and punish them. This is based on a series of
assumptions that stretch back millennia.(45)

Yet, the science behind human behavior has changed
tremendously with respect to understanding causality. It is now
common knowledge in the social sciences that most acts of “crime”
would likely not occur if certain basic, supportive environmental
conditions were set for the human being.(46) Putting people in prisons is
not actually resolving anything with respect to the causal problem. It is
more of a mere “patch”, if you will, which only temporarily stifles some
effects of the larger problem.(47)

Sources:
45. Reference: Violence: Our Deadly Epidemic and Its Causes, Dr. James
Gilligan, 1996
46. The ‘Merva-Fowles’ study, done at the University of Utah in the 1990s, found
powerful connections between unemployment and crime. They based their
research on 30 major metropolitan areas with a total population of over 80
million. Their findings found that a 1% rise in unemployment resulted in: a
6.7% increase in Homicides; a 3.4% increase in violent crimes; a 2.4%
increase in property crime. During the period from 1990 to 1992, this
translated into: 1,459 additional Homicides; 62,607 additional violent
crimes; 223,500 additional property crimes. (Merva & Fowles, Effects of
Diminished Economic Opportunities on Social Stress, Economic Policy
Institute, 1992)
47. Reference: Ben McLeish lecture: “Out of the Box: Prisons”

Quoted from: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/uploads/upload/file/19/The_Zeitgeist_Movement_Defined_6_by_9.pdf

I highly recommend watching the lecture. Skip to the 12-minute mark for the important bits.