http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3652174.stm#
There's a video link to the right. Still, though...jesus. What the fuck?
There's a video link to the right. Still, though...jesus. What the fuck?
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13 innocents get killed by American helicopter fire. On live TV.
- Thread starter Matlock
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Team Rancid
Member
Good Lord, that is some scary stuff.
Some of the comments in the article are ridiculously biased. I mean come on it's a fucking burning tank and the reporter didn't think there was any danger being around it? With that said the military might want to be a bit more judicious in their firing missles into the middle of on-looking civilians whether or not they should have been there. This is the constant shit that has continually degraded our relations with these countries. Incompetence all the way around.
Mustang said:FUCK YOU BUSH!
FUCK YOU BUSH!!
FUCK YOU BUSH!!!
Thought I would get that in so one of the liberals here would not have to do it.
Sorry to seem a bit cold here but these media people should know the risk of being there.
yeah, who knew? who knew that american helicopters would fire missles into a crowd of defenseless civilians. should have known the risks, though!!
were these people wearing outfits that could have confused the pilots into thinking they were big, bad terrosists??
This isn't surprising, but I'm glad there is at last some video of this sort of thing made public. It's happening all the time, US soldiers practicaly killing civilians for fun (you could maybe make this one out to be an accident, but that certainly isn't laways the case). No-one in America is likely to hear of this stuff too often, because the media is surprisingly censored. Hopefully this will serve as a wake up call.
Where are the articles about "soldiers killing for fun"? As much as everyone likes to believe we are controlled by a severely censored media, anyone has the ability to go out and seek answers from media outlets outside the traditional sources. I have yet to hear of any killing for the hell of it scenarios. I am going out on a limb here and assuming you are not an American.
Manabanana
Member
iyox said:
Quick, forget about Abu Ghraib prison!
I am not even sure what you are trying to say here? Soldiers killing for fun? That I am un-aware of the scandal? Either way I'd like to know still where the "soldiers killing for fun" incidents happened, and why everyone in the world thinks Americans only get their news from our "censored" media?
Manabanana
Member
Not in Abu Ghraib, but here's a story.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/01/afghan.prisoner.abuse.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/01/afghan.prisoner.abuse.ap/index.html
Manabanana
Member
Manabanana said:
This is another prison abuse article... and unfortunately prison abuse even happens in regular prisons all around the world... please point me to a killing for fun article as was claimed earlier.
EDIT:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/08/24/abughraib.report/index.html
That's still not a killing for fun. That's interrogation, an attempt to get information... and we already know those folks were simply going to far in attempts to get information... but how do you pin that down as to... "for fun?"
Manabanana
Member
DarienA said:
I wouldn't know how much fun these soldiers had committing war crimes, but I know they weren't ordered or encouraged to kill anybody. Why else would they kill detainees?
"Words fail me."
Well them maybe I can help you out here.. It's a Armored vehicle, filled with US military equipment and lots of high calibur ammunition.
oh wait shit, what am I thinking, the people will just leave it there and not take any of it, it's not theres!
I can think of better things to do then go play next to a downed military vehicle in the middle of a war torn country.
Yea, it's unfortunate, yea, it sucks, but placing the blame firmly on the US because well, its the US! and it's cool to do it! Gets a little old. Both sides made some small misjudgements and both had large consequences, thats what happens. It's a bullshit situation that shouldn't he happening, but it is, so deal.
Well them maybe I can help you out here.. It's a Armored vehicle, filled with US military equipment and lots of high calibur ammunition.
oh wait shit, what am I thinking, the people will just leave it there and not take any of it, it's not theres!
I can think of better things to do then go play next to a downed military vehicle in the middle of a war torn country.
Yea, it's unfortunate, yea, it sucks, but placing the blame firmly on the US because well, its the US! and it's cool to do it! Gets a little old. Both sides made some small misjudgements and both had large consequences, thats what happens. It's a bullshit situation that shouldn't he happening, but it is, so deal.
LuckyBrand
Banned
terrorists blew up one of our tanks, and then they prance and cheer on it, so we bombed the tank while they were partying on it..
what dumb shit is going to go stand in the group of terrorists as they are holding the flags and chanting around a fucking blown up american tank during a battle?
what dumb shit is going to go stand in the group of terrorists as they are holding the flags and chanting around a fucking blown up american tank during a battle?
Escape Goat
Member
Why does British read like sensationalist journalism?
"Just the facts, ma'am."
"Just the facts, ma'am."
Miburou said:
Because it's annoying as hell to me when people run around on this forum making gross generalizations and then don't back the shit up. That's why. Is prison abuse wrong? OF couse, but as a former soldier it pisses me off that someone would just make the comment that yeah soldiers kill for fun all the time. That's a load of crap.
Mana five died from abuse during interrogation... if you don't see the difference between than and soliders killing for fun then you probably problems distinguishing between weather changes as well... I mean come on now.
No one is saying the prison abuse was fair or justified... but that american soldiers kill for fun all the time line is bullshit.
Vark said:
Sorry, firing at a downed tank that's surrounded by civilizians (and reports doing their job) is plain wrong, and should not be justified. And according to reports they also directed machinegun fire at the crowd, most of whom were not cheering (again, according to the article, which I don't think you've read in its entirety).
They fucked up big time (I'm not big on conspiracy theories), and the discrepencies with the reports of people who were on the scene, and the way they contracted themselves is proof enough.
Ok, at first I thought this was going to be some awful gaffe by he US military, but c'mon... Once you read the actual evidence it doesn't seem nearly as bad.
1. Destroyed Armoured Vehicle. Check.
2. Press photographers took pictures of the wreck and the Iraqis around it, including young men waving the flag of Abu Musab Zarqawi's al-Qaeda-linked group Tawhid and Jihad.
Men cheering for joy standing on and around Destroyed Armoured Vehicle carrying Hostile Flag? Check.
3. Bombs away? Check.
It seems to add up to me... I can't view the video, and it may depict a different story.
1. Destroyed Armoured Vehicle. Check.
2. Press photographers took pictures of the wreck and the Iraqis around it, including young men waving the flag of Abu Musab Zarqawi's al-Qaeda-linked group Tawhid and Jihad.
Men cheering for joy standing on and around Destroyed Armoured Vehicle carrying Hostile Flag? Check.
3. Bombs away? Check.
It seems to add up to me... I can't view the video, and it may depict a different story.
1- This happened some time after the tank was destroyed. 40 minutes according to the US, 3 hours according to reporters on the scene. The US explains this by saying that their timings are approximate.
2- There was no gun fire or even armed people on the scene. Also, most of the people on the scene were NOT celebrating. For better or for worse, people usually gather around wrecks, and reporters have a job to do.
3- Just because someone is waving a flag does in no way justify killing them.
4- The US first says that it's to prevent looting and "harm to the Iraqi people" (yet their advanced weapons and tracking systems failed to notice that there was a crowd gathered around it, and this is downtown Baghdad we're talking about), then says that it was returning fire.
5- The tank was burning. I'm pretty sure it would've been difficult for anyone to loot it, so why the urgency?
2- There was no gun fire or even armed people on the scene. Also, most of the people on the scene were NOT celebrating. For better or for worse, people usually gather around wrecks, and reporters have a job to do.
3- Just because someone is waving a flag does in no way justify killing them.
4- The US first says that it's to prevent looting and "harm to the Iraqi people" (yet their advanced weapons and tracking systems failed to notice that there was a crowd gathered around it, and this is downtown Baghdad we're talking about), then says that it was returning fire.
5- The tank was burning. I'm pretty sure it would've been difficult for anyone to loot it, so why the urgency?
How on earth could you defend what was clearly caught on video. Yeah, it was a demolished tank that people were celebrating on. Big fucking deal. The security concern is a fat load of bullshit. If it had to be secured, it should have been destroyed when they removed the bodies, or when there wasn't a large mass of people around it. That was either homicidal intent, or gross negligence. Either way, I think it's inexcusable. And the same goes for the argument that they were being fired upon. Bullshit.
After that other vehicle was looted and raised, there were lots of independant reporters filming and reporting from the scene of the crime. If the military guys don't expect the same here, then maybe they've had their heads buried in the sand all along. Pretty crude, pretty criminal (IMO, and I'm not buying the "it's war" argument) and it's been documented so it trumps the lies being pushed by that military spokesman. Then again, that video probably won't be shown on the news, since this story has been on Yahoo! since last evening. There's been a whole ton of violence in the last couple of days, but it's hardly being covered. At least here we're still getting Ivan updates every 15 minutes.
Anyway, this is how you execute an unjustified war with thousands of civilian casualties. You say the opposite of what's happening, and wait a few seconds for your loyal devotees to jump to your aid with ever halfbaked excuse in the book. Seriously, this is pretty indefensible IMO. PEACE.
After that other vehicle was looted and raised, there were lots of independant reporters filming and reporting from the scene of the crime. If the military guys don't expect the same here, then maybe they've had their heads buried in the sand all along. Pretty crude, pretty criminal (IMO, and I'm not buying the "it's war" argument) and it's been documented so it trumps the lies being pushed by that military spokesman. Then again, that video probably won't be shown on the news, since this story has been on Yahoo! since last evening. There's been a whole ton of violence in the last couple of days, but it's hardly being covered. At least here we're still getting Ivan updates every 15 minutes.
Anyway, this is how you execute an unjustified war with thousands of civilian casualties. You say the opposite of what's happening, and wait a few seconds for your loyal devotees to jump to your aid with ever halfbaked excuse in the book. Seriously, this is pretty indefensible IMO. PEACE.
Vark said:
have you ever seen a downed military vehicle in the middle of a war torn country, hell have you ever seen a tank in real life? TV doesnt count by the way.
the situation there is different, you can NEVER say what you were going to do or not without being in it. war isnt some sort of a game.
oh, i dont know...journalists covering a story may be? it's their job you know!
and just because those people were waving al qaeda flags doesnt mean they were "terrorists". it just means they hate americans for invading and bombing their country.
let me put it to you this way. if america invades north korea and starts bombing it. and al qaeda starts helping NK guerillas take out US military targets, you'll see freaking North Koreans cheering for al qaeda.
this is war. and america is the enemy from their point of view.
Manabanana
Member
DarienA said:
Whoa. I'm not at all saying that soldiers run around killing for fun. A few select instances shouldn't represent a country, but the fact that it has and does occur sickens me. Sorry I fueled the fire.
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