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[antic604]

150MHz x 8 cores isn't much of a boost? Are you sure about that?

It depends how you look at it:
- from CPU perspective alone, it's significant: a boost from 102GFlops to 112GFlops, i.e. 9.4% increase
- from overall Xbox performance it's negligible: from 1.41TFlops to 1.42TFlops, i.e. 0.7% increase

A bit OT, but I wonder whether MS will have to up the number of Azure servers dedicated to Xbox from 300k to 330k, to retain promised 3xCPU performance in the cloud

 

[KidBeta]

I'm not even sure why I bothered in the first place.

Look, it's pretty simple here guys. Not sure why this is a 40 page thread.

The Xbox has: better CPU, better audio hardware. This will help some games in some aspects more (one example would be number of units on screen).
The PS4 has: better GPU, better memory subsystem. This will help some games in some aspects more, that are GPU bound (one example would be the on-screen visuals).

This isn't rocket science. It's a net positive for the xbox, albeit a small one.

If by more units you mean 9% more, so for every 100 units we get 9 more.

 

[Shambles]

150MHz x 8 cores isn't much of a boost? Are you sure about that?

It's a good boost, it'll be even more relevant later in the new gen console cycle.

Nice spin. Let's see a 10% boost x 8 cores = XBOX is 80% faster than PS4!!111oneoneone

 

[Diablos]

I'm not even sure why I bothered in the first place.

Look, it's pretty simple here guys. Not sure why this is a 40 page thread.

The Xbox has: better CPU, better audio hardware. This will help some games in some aspects more (one example would be number of units on screen).
The PS4 has: better GPU, better memory subsystem. This will help some games in some aspects more, that are GPU bound (one example would be the on-screen visuals).

This isn't rocket science. It's a net positive for the xbox, albeit a small one.

PS4 is a huge net-positive overall. Xbone's barely noticable CPU clock boost will not put a dent in PS4. Nothing has really changed despite MS putting a band-aid on everything, and that, my friend, is the bottom line.

I'll put it to you this way: Even if Sony came out tomorrow and said they are OCing their CPU to 1.78GHz it won't matter. It's the optimizations on the GPU side, shaders, memory bandwidth, etc. that will still set PS4 apart from Xbone. PS4's CPU has slightly better features than Xbone's out of the box, does it not?

Xbone's CPU boost isn't significant enough to make an impact even in the most demanding of games i.e. planetside.

 

[flyinpiranha]

But it was created by the same company.

In my 20 years as a gamer, with more than 25 consoles, so far only hardware from Microsoft has died on me (i take great care of my hardware). The HDD of the 1st XBOX (although that was not made by MS, the console as a whole is an MS product), the notoriously shitty wireless 360 controller adapter for PC and of course we all know what happened with the 360.

Why should we trust them now? Its a company that either doesn't care about reliability or they can't design good quality hardware.



After how many revisions? And how many years? And how much time and money wasted from gamers?

You have incredible luck. In college I worked at a gamestore and we could have built a house out of the PS2 DRE systems we had. I went through a couple myself. PS1 had to be flipped upside down to work.

Plus, with my experience having my PS3 YLOD and Xbox RROD, PS3 cost me $150 to replace and took 3 weeks. The 360 took 6 business days and didn't cost me a dime.

Either way, anecdotal evidence abound and the first batch of 360's being absolutely shitty, we've seen them improve and I'm sure they don't want another billion dollar mistake. Hell, it's why the thing is so damned huge anyway I'd imagine, they aren't taking chances.

 

[JonathanPower]

I'm not even sure why I bothered in the first place.

Look, it's pretty simple here guys. Not sure why this is a 40 page thread.

The Xbox has: better CPU, better audio hardware. This will help some games in some aspects more (one example would be number of units on screen).
The PS4 has: better GPU, better memory subsystem. This will help some games in some aspects more, that are GPU bound (one example would be the on-screen visuals).

This isn't rocket science. It's a net positive for the xbox, albeit a small one.

Well, it's not that simple, as we don't know the PS4 CPU clock speed, nor do we know how many cores are used for the OS.

 

[Jack cw]

150MHz x 8 cores isn't much of a boost? Are you sure about that?

It's a good boost, it'll be even more relevant later in the new gen console cycle.

Haha, I love GAF these days. Sooo much gold!
The X1 is now over 80% faster than the PS4... 3.7 TF confirmed for X1!!!!!

 

[statham]

If by more units you mean 9% more, so for every 100 units we get 9 more.

nice, Dynasty Warriors should benefit.

 

[Chobel]

It depends how you look at it:
- from CPU perspective alone, it's significant: a boost from 102GFlops to 112GFlops, i.e. 9.4% increase
- from overall Xbox performance it's negligible: from 1.41TFlops to 1.42TFlops, i.e. 0.7% increase

A bit OT, but I wonder whether MS will have to up the number of Azure servers dedicated to Xbox from 300k to 330k, to retain promised 3xCPU performance in the cloud

 

[Skeff]

You have incredible luck. In college I worked at a gamestore and we could have built a house out of the PS2 DRE systems we had. I went through a couple myself. PS1 had to be flipped upside down to work.

Plus, with my experience having my PS3 YLOD and Xbox RROD, PS3 cost me $150 to replace and took 3 weeks. The 360 took 6 business days and didn't cost me a dime.

Either way, anecdotal evidence abound and the first batch of 360's being absolutely shitty, we've seen them improve and I'm sure they don't want another billion dollar mistake. Hell, it's why the thing is so damned huge anyway I'd imagine, they aren't taking chances.

To take anecdotal evidence off the table:

Let's just use the Facts.

 

[PG2G]

PS4 is a huge net-positive overall. Xbone's barely noticable CPU clock boost will not put a dent in PS4. Nothing has really changed despite MS putting a band-aid on everything, and that, my friend, is the bottom line.

Something has changed, the XB1's CPU is faster than it was before. Why do you feel the need to downplay it so much? This makes up for some of the resources that were being lost to the OS (which was quite a big deal to a lot of people). I think we all know that this is not going to put the XB1 anywhere near the PS4. Don't worry, your performance crown is safe.

 

[Diablos]

Something has changed, the XB1's CPU is faster than it was before. Why do you feel the need to downplay it so much? This makes up for some of the resources that were being lost to the OS (which was quite a big deal to a lot of people). I think we all know that this is not going to put the XB1 anywhere near the PS4. Don't worry, your performance crown is safe.

What is a big deal to a lot of people and what it actually means are two different things, man. And you speak right to my point that the hypetrain for anything and everything next-gen right now is ridiculous.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

nice, Dynasty Warriors should benefit.

Heck yes. I love me some Dynasty Warriors

 

[Ushae]

I'm not even sure why I bothered in the first place.

Look, it's pretty simple here guys. Not sure why this is a 40 page thread.

The Xbox has: better CPU, better audio hardware. This will help some games in some aspects more (one example would be number of units on screen).
The PS4 has: better GPU, better memory subsystem. This will help some games in some aspects more, that are GPU bound (one example would be the on-screen visuals).

This isn't rocket science. It's a net positive for the xbox, albeit a small one.

Fanboys Stevie, fanboys.

Your post nailed it buddy, no idea why people are regurgitating the same things over and over

 

[Phat Michael]

But it was created by the same company.

In my 20 years as a gamer, with more than 25 consoles, so far only hardware from Microsoft has died on me (i take great care of my hardware). The HDD of the 1st XBOX (although that was not made by MS, the console as a whole is an MS product), the notoriously shitty wireless 360 controller adapter for PC and of course we all know what happened with the 360.

Why should we trust them now? Its a company that either doesn't care about reliability or they can't design good quality hardware.



After how many revisions? And how many years? And how much time and money wasted from gamers?

So they improved the hardware and have added better testing and fans/cooling and you are still going to judge them on the first rounds of xbox 360s?

I had my first 360 die, my next one with the falcon chip is still going strong. The last few haven't had any problems so I'm not sure what you really want to hear now?

 

[Angelus Errare]

150MHz x 8 cores isn't much of a boost? Are you sure about that?

It's a good boost, it'll be even more relevant later in the new gen console cycle.

1.6*8*8 = 102.4Gflops
1.75*8*8 = 112Gflops

 

[Diablos]

Fanboys Stevie, fanboys.

Your post nailed it buddy, no idea why people are regurgitating the same things over and over

IN SONY WE TRUST, lolol.

Frankly my wet dream is that everything is on Steam, and I mean everything. That will never happen. I'd much rather just keep upgrading my PC. Depending on how next-gen plays out I might do just that. I want to buy a PS4 and support Sony but their first-party stuff has to be really compelling. So from the standpoint of a semi-Sony fanboy (frankly I just really hate MS more than anything else) and PC hardware fanboy, I can't help but look at this CPU boost and laugh. It. Changes. Nothing. Now if Xbone is reported to have a 2.5-3.0GHz version of Jaguar all of the sudden, THEN they have something to brag about. But it's just so damn laughable because both systems have CPU's clocked so fucking low and you read about 1.70 something GHz like it's such a game changer. The AMD chip I'm using now is 3.5GHz, 4.1GHz turbo, with a better GPU in my box in a year it will be able to hold its own and then some against these consoles for 1080p gaming. That's why I just think this is all so pathetic.

Oh, and if stuff like FFXV comes out for PC it'll decrease my chances of buying a next-gen console even more.

 

[Caayn]

To take anecdotal evidence off the table:

Let's just use the Facts.

And Microsoft had an excellent service for the people who had a Xbox 360 that suffered from RROD. Out of the almost 8 years that i've owned a Xbox 360 only one was struck with RROD. And it was replaced within 5 days.

Not saying that RROD is a good thing, just saying that Microsoft took care of the problem which is a massively overlooked fact.

 

[badb0y]

I'm not even sure why I bothered in the first place.

Look, it's pretty simple here guys. Not sure why this is a 40 page thread.

The Xbox has: better CPU, better audio hardware. This will help some games in some aspects more (one example would be number of units on screen).
The PS4 has: better GPU, better memory subsystem. This will help some games in some aspects more, that are GPU bound (one example would be the on-screen visuals).

This isn't rocket science. It's a net positive for the xbox, albeit a small one.

This won't be the most efficient way to go about this anymore, GPGPU compute does this much more efficiently.

This thread is hilarious, 99% of the people posting here have no idea what this actually means for games.

TheKayle, lol 10% clock boost nets 30% performance? Wtf you smoking bro you were just trying to convince people 40% more GPU power won't give 40% more performance last week.

 

[Ce-Lin]

wouldn't it have been easier if they just added one more server to the cloud ? why do they need to up the specs of the console when the cloud is providing the power ?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

And Microsoft had an excellent service for the people who had a Xbox 360 that suffered from RROD. Out of the almost 8 years that i've owned a Xbox 360 only one was struck with RROD. And it was replaced within 5 days.

Not saying that RROD is a good thing, just saying that Microsoft took care of the problem which is a massively overlooked fact.

How is that possible? It took me a month both times I sent mine in.

 

[StevieP]

This won't be the most efficient way to go about this anymore, GPGPU compute does this much more efficiently.

This thread is hilarious, 99% of the people posting here have no idea what this actually means for games..

The irony. Not everything is going to work well on GPGPU. Do we have a "Durante signal" yet?

 

[badb0y]

The irony. Not everything is going to work well on GPGPU. Do we have a "Durante signal" yet?

Correct, not everything works well on GPGPU but what you mentioned specifically will.

Now sit down.

 

[Vizzeh]

(duplicate post)

 

[TheGhosts]

Awesome!!!

 

[Rashid]

Do we know the PS4 clock speed yet? I thought it was 1.6GHz, but then again maybe Microsoft had a lower clock as it is then the ps4 and are trying to match it.

 

[Vizzeh]

Maybe we should hold fire for a minute. We assumed X1 was 1.6 and PS4 was 1.6

MS Just released X1 is 1.75ghz

whos to say Sony wont release similar CPU figures?? (since the CPU's are the same, whats stopping them.)

The sony CPU isnt confirmed yet.

We dont know the overheads of each Console either so the extra 11Gflops the X1 has could mean alot more or alot less in constructive USABLE power? for games.

Fact of the mater is, (using figures illustrated before)

X1 Cpu is 121GFlops + 1.31T.Flops GPU = 1.431 Tflops Total + DDR3 - Weaker version of Huma?

PS4 is 110Gflops + 1.84Tflops GPU = 1.910 Tflops total + GDDR5 - Huma

Both have Secondary Audio chips and potentially the PS4 has a secondary ARM chip?

This is positive news for the X1 and TBH they deserve some, but imo it changes little. Sony could release their specs the same, or do an upclock to both their CPU+GPU - which scales more.

According to Mark Cerny + General common sense the GPU is whats gonna do the talking, not these more than likely measly CPU's.

Hard to believe the massive amounts of dummies being spit out over about 11Gflops of power. - Chill guys

 

[badb0y]

Maybe we should hold fire for a minute. We assumed X1 was 1.6 and PS4 was 1.6

MS Just released X1 is 1.75ghz

whos to say Sony wont release similar CPU figures?? (since the CPU's are the same, whats stopping them.)

The sony CPU isnt confirmed yet.

We dont know the overheads of each Console either so the extra 11Gflops the X1 has could mean alot more or alot less in constructive USABLE power? for games.

Fact of the mater is, (using figures illustrated before)

X1 Cpu is 121GFlops + 1.31T.Flops GPU = 1.431 Tflops Total + DDR3 - Weaker version of Huma?

PS4 is 110Gflops + 1.84Tflops GPU = 1.910 Tflops total + GDDR5 - Huma

Both have Secondary Audio chips and potentially the PS4 has a secondary ARM chip?

This is positive news for the X1 and TBH they deserve some, but imo it changes little. Sony could release their specs the same, or do an upclock to both their CPU+GPU - which scales more.

According to Mark Cerny + General common sense the GPU is whats gonna do the talking, not these more than likely measly CPU's.

Hard to believe the massive amounts of dummies being spit out over about 11Gflops of power. - Chill guys

It is not confirmed but the February demo of Killzone SF was run on a 8-core CPU with 1.6 Ghz clock speed.

 

[LukasTaves]

Does it need to be? It's Leadbetter. It's amazing that he can consider the CPU a significant step ahead for a potential 9.38% or whatever when he has stated a 50% GPU advantage (at the time) wouldn't make much of a difference.

You (and pretty much everyone in this thread) are making a very crude approximation.

Increasing the clock makes your entire chip faster. Attributing a difference in execution units to be the whole performance difference is wrong and that's what DF's article tried to show.

For instance, with the upclock everything on the xbone gpu got faster, even the fixed function hardware like the setup engine. So if your game is severely limited by it and not at all by compute and shaders the extra clock will net you performance increase, while the extra flops won't.

Even with the whole chip being faster, you are likely not going to see linear improvements on performance because that would require that a specific portion of the chip that has increased linearly with the clock was pretty much the sole bottleneck in the first place.

We don't have really much of a choice to wait and see whether any of this will or will not result in any actual performance difference.

 

[DeFiBkIlLeR]

150MHz x 8 cores isn't much of a boost? Are you sure about that?

When it comes to gaming, neither of these consoles are 8 cores, 8GB though.

We should really think of them as 6 Core, 5-6GB gaming machines.

 

[badb0y]

You (and pretty much everyone in this thread) are making a very crude approximation.

Increasing the clock makes your entire chip faster. Attributing a difference in execution units to be the whole performance difference is wrong and that's what DF's article tried to show.

For instance, with the upclock everything on the xbone gpu got faster, even the fixed function hardware like the setup engine. So if your game is severely limited by it and not at all by compute and shaders the extra clock will net you performance increase, while the extra flops won't.

Even with the whole chip being faster, you are likely not going to see linear improvements on performance because that would require that a specific portion of the chip that has increased linearly with the clock was pretty much the sole bottleneck in the first place.

We don't have really much of a choice to wait and see whether any of this will or will not result in any actual performance difference.

It will have a performance difference in games that are CPU limited albeit not that big of a difference.

 

[LukasTaves]

1.6*8*8 = 102.4Gflops
1.75*8*8 = 112Gflops

There's a lot more to a processor than pure flops.

Heck if we are going from a flop perspective, both cpus are probably worse than cell.

 

[linkeds2]

How is that possible? It took me a month both times I sent mine in.

in Illinois, i've gotten one back as early as a week

back came in monday, sent it, they received it wednesday, shipped it back thursday and i got it the next day,

I've had xboxes since 01 and the customer service has always been great.

i've never had to call sony though, after my 360 situations, i take apart all my consoles and reapply AS5 on the cpu and gpu from now on (you would never guess how shitty the factory puts their stuff on

 

[ElTorro]

Increasing the clock makes your entire chip faster.

It's not really clear which parts use the same clock, though.

 

[DJ Lushious]

In my 20 years as a gamer, with more than 25 consoles, so far only hardware from Microsoft has died on me (i take great care of my hardware).

You clearly never owned a Playstation 1, then. They were notorious for their failures. Who here remembers having to prop the system on its side to get it to read discs?

 

[ElTorro]

Who here remembers having to prop the system on its side to get it to read discs?

Oh, yes.

 

[flyinpiranha]

To take anecdotal evidence off the table:

Let's just use the Facts.

500k users polled on a gamer site out of 70+ million consoles is "facts".

 

[Impeccable]

500k users polled on a gamer site out of 70+ million consoles is "facts".

You should enroll in basic statistics class.

 

[Guymelef]

I'm not even sure why I bothered in the first place.

Look, it's pretty simple here guys. Not sure why this is a 40 page thread.

The Xbox has: better CPU, better audio hardware. This will help some games in some aspects more (one example would be number of units on screen).
The PS4 has: better GPU, better memory subsystem. This will help some games in some aspects more, that are GPU bound (one example would be the on-screen visuals).

This isn't rocket science. It's a net positive for the xbox, albeit a small one.

Can you go deeper on how PS4 audio chip works?

 

[DC R1D3R]

Just so I understand; when all we had were leaks and spec sheets people were able to extrapolate power and Tflops and Gflops and Xflops and make assumptions based on this. But now that the XB1 CPU is stated as clocked higher than the PS4 rumored, we're back to "it's not even final yet" and "we don't know" and "oh, you have the numbers now, care to share"?

LOLOUDER

oh you noticed that too huh?

 

[flyinpiranha]

You should enroll in basic statistics class.

Right after online polls are used as hard data.

 

[Chobel]

Right after online polls are used as hard data.

Online polls are not used in statistics, like he said you should enroll in basic statistics class.

 

[lastflowers]

I'm not even sure why I bothered in the first place.

Look, it's pretty simple here guys. Not sure why this is a 40 page thread.

The Xbox has: better CPU, better audio hardware. This will help some games in some aspects more (one example would be number of units on screen).
The PS4 has: better GPU, better memory subsystem. This will help some games in some aspects more, that are GPU bound (one example would be the on-screen visuals).

This isn't rocket science. It's a net positive for the xbox, albeit a small one.

Yeah, this thread devolved into a little bit of crazy. Good news is good news, but this isn't crazy good news. If anything, we should just be relieved that the xbone probably has a pretty solid cooling system this time around. The hardware in the box seems pretty stable.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Online polls are not used in statistics, like he said you should enroll in basic statistics class.

I make a comment based on polls, told to take a class on statistics, then you tell me I should take the class because I don't think online polls should be used as a base for statistical evidence.

Can we just cut through the fucking idiotic wordplay and explain to me what the hell is meant then?

 

[PureGone]

150MHZ less than Xbax one. MS had the foresight to make x1's enclosure big enough to accommodate gpu and cpu boost.
I can't wait to find out what other improvements MS is going to make before they launch X1.

Whats the exact number i think Xbox One still has a lower GHz than the PS4.

 

[Vizzeh]

It is not confirmed but the February demo of Killzone SF was run on a 8-core CPU with 1.6 Ghz clock speed.

At that point though in February the PS4 Dev kits where pretty much Beta? I think at that point they where only using 4GB GDDR5 in them (as it was only apparently a few weeks before the PS4 reveal that they decided on 8GB) , so 1.6 could have been the lowest CPU speed at that time?

 

[Wynnebeck]

I don't think it's the fact that the Xbone's CPU is better than PS4's last noted speed that has everyone in a tizzy. It's the idea that the up clock somehow overrides all of the other missteps of the Xbone that people are trying to avoid letting take root. In the end, the Xbone is more powerful than the PS360, just not as powerful as the PS4. Can we all at least agree on that?

 

[rakkadakka]

I can't help but look at this CPU boost and laugh. It. Changes. Nothing.

It doesn't make the XBOX One the most powerful kid on the block, but anything extra at the starting line will count towards the middle and end of next gen.

Very dramatic though, maybe use italics and bold next time.

 

[flyinpiranha]

I don't think it's the fact that the Xbone's CPU is better than PS4's last noted speed that has everyone in a tizzy. It's the idea that the up clock somehow overrides all of the other missteps of the Xbone that people are trying to avoid letting take root. In the end, the Xbone is more powerful than the PS360, just not as powerful as the PS4. Can we all at least agree on that?

People think this outweighs all the PS4 positives? Mind linking me to those posts, that sounds ... off.

 

[jmdajr]

cool I guess