Support NeoGAF

[Matlock]

Fortunately, the body of text is what matters. If you read that, you decide from that whether or not you think the game is worth getting. Review scores are truly meaningless. And on the case of Mario 64 DS, I think his review accurately mirrored the score he gave it, but that's beside the point.

Score is really irrelevant. What they write is what I tend to listen to, and for me I listen to Jeremy Parish more than anyone else from review sites.

Not that he changes my mind or anything. I purchased a Nintendo DS and am very happy with my purchase. I like Mario 64 DS, and if I had to score it I'd give it a 8.5

Valid points all around, and I did read it.

The point I'm trying to make is, what about those who just look at the score and go "whoa nelly?"! What about those who read the whole thing, then look at the score, and say "hey, that looks like...a 7? Must not be that good."

There's a lot of things a score gives, and most of all, it gives the big picture impression for 90% of the reading public. The ones who can ignore the score and go over the text only (of which this has a few flaws: basically the "this is not worth buying a ds for" sections and baseless PSP comparisons) come out ahead in the Parish reviews, but that isn't the majority.

Since when has a port been a flagship title for Nintendo?

Absolutely - and I complained back then too. I mean, what happened to Nintendo?

Keeeep on backpedalling.

 

[Memles]

finally a fair review, if this game was by any other company it probably would've gotten trashed for its controls

Correction: It IS getting trashed for its controls. But, shock of shocks, the game underneath is still a solid 3D Platformer, so it's scores are averaging about in the 8.5 range.

Nostalgia plays more of a factor than brand power, in this instance. You must be running on troll autopilot, or something.

 

[Amir0x]

The point I'm trying to make is, what about those who just look at the score and go "whoa nelly?"! What about those who read the whole thing, then look at the score, and say "hey, that looks like...a 7? Must not be that good." There's a lot of things a score gives, and most of all, it gives the big picture impression for 90% of the reading public.

I guess it must be said: Jeremy Parish, or any other reviewer, should not have to compensate for morons who don't read the text. It's really that simple. You and I read it, and you and I are better off for it. If some idiot sees a 7.5 and says "MUST NOT BE GOOD? DS SKIP!!", then that's their problem and Jeremy Parish should change nothing just because of those fools.

The ones who can ignore the score and go over the text only (of which this has a few flaws: basically the "this is not worth buying a ds for" sections and baseless PSP comparisons) come out ahead in the Parish reviews, but that isn't the majority.

His review lists a substantial amount of other flaws, such as serious control issues, mediocre level design in areas and underwhelming newly implemented level in comparrison to the originals. He lists a lot of what he feels are flaws. I think you're getting stuck on his PSP comparrison and ignoring what he did say about the game. Whether or not the PSP comparrison was valid is another subject entirely, but his review definitely wasn't without what he feels are legitimate criticisms.

That said, you can't simply ignore the competition now. PSP is coming. Jeremy Parish recognizes that a lot of the appeal of a system is judged directly on the first "killer app" for a system, of which Nintendo clearly feels Super Mario 64 DS is it for the NDS. If this game does not do 3D control well, he feels it'll suffer even more when PSP comes out. That's his opinion, and I agree with you - maybe that was better suited for an editorial. But it's not exactly a terrible statement.

 

[mumu]

It was inevitable and you know it. And i expect lots of other (enhanced) ports. It takes little effort, so it's almost like printing money! Sure it doesn't show the innovation, but i feel the minigames are the real reason to get that game anyway. Personally i'd buy it, if all minigames were already unlocked, or if the game was just the minigames and nothing else. But i can't be bothered to catch rabbits (even though i like the idea) or go after all the stars again!

And the truly innovative games are surely coming in the next few weeks/months. Some great ones are already announced, and i'm pretty sure there is gonna be some suprises as well. Until then Nintendo milks their franchise. And i say: let them! People buy those games so they can't be all that bad. It's not like you're forced to buy them.

 

[Reanimated]

lol

 

[cybamerc]

Those can't accept an enhanced port of one of the best games ever made must really hate the PSP. Looking forward to all bitching when it releases.

 

[shpankey]

Nintendo should be ashamed of preaching innovation with the DS just to launch with an 8 year old port.

agreed

p.s. i think this review was really fair and openly honest. it's a shame to see all the nintendo fanboys constantly damage controlling everything ds just because its nintendo.

 

[Koshiro]

I think this is a fair review, and I agree with most of the points. Specifically that games on DS should be designed from the ground up for DS. That new hardware is there for a reason folks, it's not just an obsticle making ports more difficult ("Let's just shove a map on the other screen and forget about it"). The DS is doomed if developers take this route, and Nintendo are hardly setting the example they should be porting this.

 

[Matlock]

I guess it must be said: Jeremy Parish, or any other reviewer, should not have to compensate for morons who don't read the text.

Fair enough, but the score should be consistent with the text.

mediocre level design

Which was there from the beginning, and playing it on the N64 wouldn't change that.

 

[Drinky Crow]

How is it "enhanced"? Do you consider ToS PS2 an "enhanced" port of ToS GC? It has a bunch of new content, but shittier controls and graphics.

 

[Memles]

Which was there from the beginning, and playing it on the N64 wouldn't change that.

I agree with you, but I think he also means the new levels.

 

[Matlock]

Also, it should be noted that one of the flagship titles for the PSP is a port of Gran Turismo 4.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Playing as 4 different characters with different abilities is an enhancement. Even tho 1996 proved you only needed Mario. :lol

 

[shpankey]

Also, it should be noted that one of the flagship titles for the PSP is a port of Gran Turismo 4.

a port of a brand new game (hell, a game that's not even out) a game nobody has played is a lot different than a port of an 8 year old game that every gamer on earth has already played a ton.

 

[cybamerc]

The PSP will have loads of ports as well. Games that can be bought for current systems even. Innovation is good but a successful system needs franchise titles and mainstream games and it's also worth keeping in mind that it's getting increasingly hard to come up with new ideas. DS being a brand new system with many features that are new to video game hardware offers new possibilities but you can't expect every game to be genre defining experience. Especially at launch.

 

[Memles]

a port of a brand new game (hell, a game that's not even out) a game nobody has played is a lot different than a port of an 8 year old game that every gamer on earth has already played a ton.

By the same accord, won't there be control problems with GT4 PSP? Can't believe the Analog Nub will be able to perform as well as the Dual Shock.

 

[Azih]

I think people here are too hung on up on the final review score. The body of the review is what matters.

 

[Lemurnator]

So if someone had told me right then that in less than ten years I'd be playing the same game on the future's version of a Game Boy

I stopped reading there.

 

[Kon Tiki]

I stopped reading there.

The next word is 'I'd' short for 'I would'. English can be tough at times, do not give up.

 

[djtiesto]

7.5? Sell your DS, it's all over! (before it even began!) :lol

 

[soundwave05]

Super Mario 64 DS isn't a port, it's more like a remake or perhaps more accurately a "remix", just like Ridge Racer and DarkStalkers on the PSP are "remixes".

 

[sprsk]

ive been playing it alot today and i have to say they must be retarded if they think the controls are hard. It feels weird exaggerating movements due to the lack of a barrier like an analog stick but it works just as fine. in fact i find it easier to control the degrees of speed with the thumbstrap than the analog.

the mini games make mario 64 ds anyway.

 

[cybamerc]

How is it "enhanced"? Do you consider ToS PS2 an "enhanced" port of ToS GC? It has a bunch of new content, but shittier controls and graphics.

The only thing that's worse about the graphics is the lack of filtering and that is a hardware issues. The framerate is better, the character models are considerably better and the textures are more detailed. I too would have liked to see support for texture filtering on the DS but the ship has sailed on that one. If you can't accept that then the DS isn't for you. Personally I think SM64DS looks pretty good. Nintendo has redesigned the texture sets and prefiltered the textures to reduce pixel popping. The game looks fairly clean for an unfiltered game running at a low resolution. It is a good example of how to handle visuals on a system like the DS.

As for controls, no doubt that they have been downgraded. But you can't fit a console style analog stick on a handheld and it still remains to be seen how well Sony solution works in practice. If the PSP didn't have an analog nub would you still bitch about the lack of analog control on the DS?

 

[shpankey]

By the same accord, won't there be control problems with GT4 PSP? Can't believe the Analog Nub will be able to perform as well as the Dual Shock.

i would think at least having the option to control in analog, even if it's an "analog nub" would be better than being forced to play a game completely designed for analog control (mario 64) with only a digitial pad.

 

[Memles]

i would think at least having the option to control in analog, even if it's an "analog nub" would be better than being forced to play a game completely designed for analog control (mario 64) with only a digitial pad.

Unless you use their analog-esque solution, which provides imperfect analog control...as does the analog nub.

 

[cybamerc]

i would think at least having the option to control in analog, even if it's an "analog nub" would be better than being forced to play a game completely designed for analog control (mario 64) with only a digitial pad.

But you're not forced to play it with the d-pad. The touch screen control scheme offers the same degree of control as an analog stick. You can certainly argue that it doesn't work as well in practice but that may not be the case with the PSP's analog nub either.

 

[krypt0nian]

After playing for 4 hours now I can truly state for certain that the haters are full of shit.

 

[ohamsie]

Haha, from Jeremy Parish's Blog:

rite of passage
I've finally arrived: I now have my very own GAF thread! This is a very thrilling moment for me, and I'm pleased to see that it has all the components of a good GAF thread: infighting among forum mainstays, sweeping generalizations about my tastes and competence, specific hate directed toward me, specific hate directed toward 1UP... basically everything except that rad GIF of Batman running with a giant bomb. It's a beautiful moment for me, and I'm glad that you could all share it with me.
I keep thinking I should register an account there, but maybe it's better this way. The ethereal presence, lurking quietly and smiling benevolently at the hate. Like the Holy Spirit, except with crabbier reviews.

I heart Toastyfrog. Here's to you, JP!

 

[Matlock]

infighting among forum mainstays, specific hate directed toward 1UP

Neither of these are evident in this thread! He can't even review GAF accurately!

 

[_Angelus_]

I bet you both the DS and PSP are going to be around 50-60% of their software librarys consist of ports in their lifetimes.

Nothing wrong with that, I guess,depends on what you expect out of a handheld? I mean is it going to replace your time with console gaming,or just merely complimenting it? Cause thats money that would othewise go to console gaming,so it had better be something great and atleast not so much constant ports. Factor in that for the price of these handhelds one could instead buy another brand console and instantly have a better option selection of games to choose in its library.

I'd only feel safe about purchasing a handheld about a year or two after they've been on the market,seeing how theyre software lineups are holding up,and whats coming in their futures. If its constant porting then I'd more than likely stay away and play the newly released games on gaming consoles instead.

 

[EviLore]

Invited jparish to the board ;b

 

[Vark]

I can appreciate where people would have issues with it, but not to the extent they're making it out to be .

I've put in several hours today and I've yet to die or fall off a level. I've noticed if you stop and think of it as an analog stick then it'll work like one. if you focus too much on it being a touch screen then your thumb will start to wander.

It doesn't really matter however because if you go too far the 'analog' zone on the touchscreen moves along with you, you'll just have a tendency to run into the edge of the screen.

After about 10min i stopped focusing on it completely and its just second nature

 

[Kobun Heat]

As it relates to other games reviewed on the site, a 7.5 is about right for Mario. Hell, MP2 got an 8.5, and Mario 64 DS is certainly about a point less entertaining than that. Maybe even more so. Remember, a 7 on 1up is "engaging." It's not the same as a 7 from IGN or even EGM.

I think the real story is Smith's FIVE POINT OH for Feel The Magic. That's the kinda score gets a man tarred and feathered where I come from.

 

[Teddman]

Wow, Kobun is starting to sound reasonable about Nintendo reviews?!? Must be all that time at Gamespot...

 

[Drinky Crow]

I dunno; I think it's about time the "bundle o' mini games" design approach ended its honeymoon with critics. Japanese zaniness and the weird love among certain critics for tiny gaming vignettes aside, is FTM *really* that compelling or engaging in the long term, especially when compared to Wario Ware?

 

[DDayton]

I dunno; I think it's about time the "bundle o' mini games" design approach ended its honeymoon with critics. Japanese zaniness and the weird love among certain critics for tiny gaming vignettes aside, is FTM *really* that compelling or engaging in the long term, especially when compared to Wario Ware?

FTM is more interesting than Wario Ware in that the minigames are (vaguely) lumped together in a slightly ponderable story... however, FTM has nowhere near the replay value of Wario Ware. I don't see myself playing FTM in a month, but I think that I'll enjoy it while the charm lasts.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Haha, from Jeremy Parish's Blog:



I heart Toastyfrog. Here's to you, JP!

Edit: Well, looks like I don't have a say in the matter -- someone has created an account there for me. This is either magnificent customer service or a deadly trap. Also, some kind soul added the Batman GIF. So I guess I seriously have to upgrade my opinion of GAF now.

 

[jiggle]

what's the url to his blog?


edit: nm

 

[Socreges]

The decision to use a D-pad on the DS was undoubtedly another example of Nintendo's bloody-minded adherence to tradition (given that they invented D-pads in the first place)

As much as people love to point to Nintendo's stubborness and all that, this instance doesn't really measure up.

Anyway, I wish I could find a DS kiosk. I'd like to see what I'd think of SM64DS's controls. If I can get past them, I'd probably buy the game.

 

[Bluemercury]

It's not shit; it's just a waste of cash. With all the great games out on non-Nintendo consoles right now, why would you spend your money on a DS if you aren't a jaded Nintendo fanboy?

And what those non nintendo games on non nintendo consoles would be?at least to you?

 

[Guileless]

Mario shooting hookers minigame = 10.0 GOTY. Maybe next time.

But seriously I have no problem with Nintendo's remakes/ports/whatever you want to call them. There is a generation of people who weren't alive when SM3 or even SM64 came out, and now they have GBAs and DSes. Would you rather they only have the option to play Cartoon Network licensed sidescrolling shit instead of Nintendo classics?

If you don't want to play the game again in a slightly different form, just don't buy it.

 

[GDJustin]

Anyway, I wish I could find a DS kiosk. I'd like to see what I'd think of SM64DS's controls. If I can get past them, I'd probably buy the game.

No SM64 demo in kiosks. It's a metroid demo.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Its a game that plays better on its previous platform, 7.5 sounds just about right.

 

[seismologist]

So ultimately, you'll probably choose to use the D-pad

ugh, I feel sorry that guy couldn't figure out the touchpad analog.

Controlling with d-pad I'd agree with the 7.5
Once you learn the controls my score goes up to a 9

 

[ohamsie]

haha, he called me a "kind soul".

 

[FartOfWar]

For a review of a DS game, there sure was a lot of PSP talk in it. :-\

Like the HL 2 review that talked about Halo the whole time and consisted largely of complaints yet had a 9 attached as a score? : )

 

[Kobun Heat]

Quite frankly I'm not excited about touchpad analog either. I've tried to use it, but I just go right back to the D-Pad after a while.

 

[jedimike]

Speaking of blogs...

I tried buying a Nintendo DS, but they were only selling them to those who preordered. Well fuck that. Frank O'Connor has decided to sell me his DS with Mario for a deeply discounted price. Why? Because... HE SAYS IT SUCKS ASS. Having played with it in the office, I kind of agree. (So don't buy it! You say... well, it's really cheap! I simply can't pass it up).

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I think this review shows what I said years ago-- Mario 64 was not as good a game as it's pedigree. SMB3, SMW, and Yoshi's Island have all held up much, much better over time.

 

[ToastyFrog]

"Like the HL 2 review that talked about Halo the whole time"

Tsk. If you're going to nitpick (which is your god-given right as someone with an Internet connection, of course), at least try not to be myopic about it. The HL2 review had a single paragraph saying HL2's vehicles sucked in comparison to Halo 2's and was immediately preceded by a sentence saying Halo 2's AI was a bit better. Stick the review in a centrifuge and you're going to get about 3% Halo comparison by volume. 4% if you count the indirect bit where I said HL2 was the best solo FPS of the year.

Edit: Also, I <3 whoever is responsible for that avatar title.