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200k a year families claim they are "not rich"

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Liberty4all

Banned
An unbelievable article posted in Toronto Life. 5 families each making 200 thousand a year claim they are not rich. Wait until you see their monthly budgets. The article author claims these people are not rich, really "just making it" after considering cost of living expenses.

http://www.torontolife.com/daily/informer/from-print-edition-informer/2012/02/15/almost-rich/

Sickening really. here is an example of three of the budgets (there are 2 more examples in the article)

Single guy making 166k

Monthly expenses | Rent: $1,750. Mortgage and property taxes on an Ottawa home he co-owns with his ex: $1,180. Groceries and eating out: $1,400. (“I often order pasta at Grazie or, if I’m in a celebratory mood, North 44°. I buy better cheese and other exotic ingredients at Pusateri’s, and because I cook at home a lot I pack leftovers for lunch.”) Wine: $800. (“I’ll spend anywhere from $15 on a Rhône to $100 on an Amarone, and I open a bottle almost every night. I’m one course away from sommelier certification, and they practically know my name at the Summerhill LCBO. “) Rogers Internet: $40. Clothes at Harry Rosen and shoes from online collectible sneaker stores: $1,000. (“My big buy last year was a couple of Zegna suits for $1,500 each.”) Live music: $200. (“I go to all kinds of concerts. Last year, I saw The Weeknd at Lee’s Palace as well as Gordon Lightfoot at Massey Hall.”)

Annual expenses | Lease, maintenance and insurance for a 2010 Honda Civic: $7,000. (“I’m at an age now that I don’t care as much about what kind of car I drive.”) Travel: $10,000. (“I go to Vegas three or four times a year, though not because I have a gambling problem—my perfect day in Vegas is spent poking around the city’s downtown nooks and dive bars, miles from the tourist zoo along the strip. And I’m a regular at the annual Coachella music festival in Southern California.”) RRSP contributions: $20,000.


Family of four making 200k

Monthly expenses | Mortgage on their three-bedroom home: $2,000. Mortgage on their Georgian Bay cottage: $1,200. Utilities: $430. Gas for their Chevy Avalanche and BMW 328xi: $300. Groceries at Highland Farms: $1,200. Eating out, mostly at Swiss Chalet and Jack Astor’s: $840. Rogers for home phone, cable and Internet: $200. Clothes: $1,000. (“I drive across the border to Buffalo all the time on business,” says Antonella. “I shop a lot when I’m over there, mostly at stores like Guess.”) Vitamins, creams and lotions at Shoppers: $400. Books and magazines: $100. (“I get Men’s Health, new business books, and a novel now and then,” says Anthony.) Gifts: $250. (“The kids are constantly going to birthday parties. And there’s always a christening or confirmation to attend.”)

Annual expenses | Insurance for cars, house and cottage: $3,640. Kids’ RESPs: $4,000. RRSPs and blue-chip stocks: $20,000. Donations to Princess Margaret Hospital, SickKids and women’s shelters: $1,500. Vacations: $7,000. (“In February, we take the kids to an all-inclusive in the Dominican or Mexico,” Anthony says. “Sometimes my wife and I will go to the Bahamas for four days in the winter and leave the kids at home with their grandparents.”) Season tickets to the Leafs for Anthony: $2,000. Hockey league fees, tournament fees and new equipment for Marcus: $1,500. Dance classes for Angelina: $700.


Another family of four making 200k

Monthly expenses | Mortgage payment for a three-bedroom house: $2,500. Utilities: $500. Gas for their Jeep Commander and Ford F-150 truck: $440. (“The Jeep was a mistake. We shouldn’t have bought it; we could have used the extra money for travel.”) Street parking and two parking permits: $200. Home and car insurance: $300. Cleaning lady: $160. Groceries: $1,000. (“We like Whole Foods and try to eat organic as much as we can. We love the new Leslieville store Hooked for fish. For everything else, Loblaws.”) Baby supplies and toiletries at drugstores: $75. Wine: $400–$500. (“We try to get the better $11 bottles, but they go fast.”) Eating out: $400. Home phone, cable, Internet and two cellphones: $280. Dry cleaning: $50. Haircuts, nails and waxing: $170. Gifts: $200. (“You have kids, you spend money on toys for other kids. That’s how it goes.”) Daycare for both kids: $2,500.

Annual expenses | Property tax: $3,800. Upgrades and maintenance on their house: $5,000. Clothes: $3,000. (“When you have young kids you really cut back on stuff for yourself.”) RRSPs and investments: $0. (“Ha! We live month to month. When we have money left over, we go out.”) Savings accounts for the kids: $1,500. (“We put money in on birthdays and special occasions.”) Hockey league fees for Thomas: $500. Gym classes for Suzanne: $900. Swimming and music lessons for the kids: $900.

Edit: since the thread got so many responses I'm adding in the other 2 case studies:


Family of 2 (seniors) income 160k

HOW THEY SPEND IT
Monthly expenses | Condo fees: $900. Gas for their Mercedes E320: $150. (“We buy a new Mercedes every three years; it’s our big indulgence,” says Doug. “We always pay cash. This one was $80,000.”) Groceries: $600. (“We mainly shop at Longos and Metro,” says Shirley. “Doug’s a vegetarian and eats like a rabbit: he can go through a lot of broccoli.”) Costco: $300. (“We get everything there. Prescriptions. Fruit. Laundry soap. They have great trout, too.”) Eating out: $200. (“We like Swiss Chalet and Great Chefs on Eight in The Bay.”) Rogers home phone and Internet service: $70. Skype fees: $2.50. (“We use it for long-distance calls to the kids.”) Bathing suits, T-shirts, socks and tennis shoes for the gym: $100. Gym fees at the Mayfair Club: $125. (“I’m there every morning at 7:30,” says Doug.) Newspapers, books and magazines: $70.

Annual expenses | Gifts: $1,000. (“We have two grandkids, and we give them presents for birthdays, Christmas, special occasions.”) Insurance for car and condo: $2,400. Slots at Casino Rama and Casino Niagara: $100. (“I take $50 and go with friends in our building,” says Shirley.) Four-month trip to Myrtle Beach: $15,000. A trip to visit their son Brock in Denver: $2,500. Travel insurance: $8,000. (“At our age? And with pre-existing medical conditions? It’s a huge expense. But we don’t want to be in the States and not be covered.”)


Family of 3 (all adults) 166k

HOW THEY SPEND IT
Monthly expenses | Mortgage on their four-bedroom house, purchased in 2010: $2,500. Utilities: $300. Rogers for home phone, cable, Internet and two cellphones: $350. Gas for their Chevy Equinox and Chevy Cobalt: $300. Groceries at Loblaws, Metro, Fortino’s and the Oriental Food Mart on Finch West: $1,600. (“I like to cook dishes that I used to make in Nigeria,” Margaret says. “I often make spinach and okra soup and moin-moin, which is black-eyed beans with peppers.”) Eating out: $100. (“We sometimes go to Mandarin or Mr. Greek to celebrate.”) Lunches and coffees: $50. (“I pack a lunch basket for the family almost every day,” Margaret says. “For our health, we try to avoid eating sugary snacks and drinking coffee. I do occasionally like a Timbit, however.”) White wine, usually consumed with Sunday dinner: $80. Books and magazines: $100. Hair salon: $400. Grooming products for Emmanuel and Iyiope: $75.

Annual expenses | Clothing: $3,000. (“I don’t buy as many new outfits as I used to, since I have several nice suits I haven’t worn more than once,” says Margaret. “My new weakness is shoes and bags. I have a red Coach patent leather bag I love that I got for only $379.”) Furniture and furnishings, mostly from The Brick and HomeSense: $1,000. Vacations: $0. (“We have not been on vacation since coming to Canada. It has been work-work-work.”)


Gawker ripped them a new one.
 

Biff

Member
Well at least they're contributing to GDP. Without them we'd still be in a recession.

Better than the Occupy burden on our economy.
andherewego.gif
 

Guevara

Member
$200k with kids, in an expensive city, trying to balance responsibilities like good schools/daycare and wants like travel and fun; I get it. I grew up in similar circumstances.

You can never really have enough money to do 100% of everything you'd like to and there's always someone richer. I'd never agree to do an article like this, though. That's just stupid.
 
200k is FAR from being rich, after taxes 1/2 is gone anyway. I live in Manhattan, and if you're making 200k an year you're not even middle class


I wouldn't consider someone "rich" unless they were pulling 750K+
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
That doesn't sound outlandish to me, depending on where they are. 200k is what I consider upper middle class, not upper class (although statistically that's not the case, which I think is bullshit)
 

Yoshiya

Member
Certainly not poor, but with 3 kids in a city with high cost of living household income of $200k isn't what I'd consider rich.
 
We had a similar thread a few months ago. I'll just share one of the posts I made there:

We have no way of knowing the baseline of living standards they are using to measure their own. We can deduce they are not, however, comparing themselves to the average [middle class] resident. I'd imagine that, considering their income, they are familiar with a number of individuals whom are substantially more wealthier than they are and it is this living standard to which they relate to and try thus try to replicate. If so then its understandable as to why they may feel feel "poor"

Whilst the vast majority of us are focused on paying our bills and looking forward to treating ourselves with the remaining disposable income, their lifestyle may be of extravagance because their entire environment, the class they are in or keep company with, may be one of colourful luxury. They may be earning 2000k a year but they may be trying to live the lifestyle of someone who earns triple that; anyone who tries to live beyond their means, irrespective of their income, will always feel financially restricted.​

A quick look at those expenses I think validates the above point. The definition of 'rich' and 'wealthy' is extremely subjective, often dependant on your financial environment.
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
geez, 200k is not rich. Sure they would have a lot more if they cut their budget on a bunch of that bullshit. I dont feel sorry for them, but making 200k a year is not rich.
 

Eteric Rice

Member
I've never even been to a real concert.

Or vegas.

Or owned a suit.

Or drank a $100 bottle of wine.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?!
 

loosus

Banned
I wouldn't say they are stinking, filthy rich, but sorry -- they are indeed "fairly wealthy." You can go on and on all day about what your expenses are and what you can't do with your money, but at $200,000, you're a fucking lot better off than almost all the rest of us, even with your sky-high mortgage payments.
 

Liberty4all

Banned
To me it's fine they have money ... The sickening part is the way the article tries to say their expenses are normal. 800 a month on wine? (that guy was single but still ... The family of four was doing 400 a mth on wine ... Crazy!) 1000 a month on takeout? Hundreds a month for a cleaning service?

200k in Toronto is most certainly rich. I know because the cn tower is outside my condo. 100k - 120k in Toronto is middle class ... With many many more making far less than that.
 

Guevara

Member
I think the correct definition to rich is: Doesn't have to work.

All these families have at least one person that has to work every day to keep their (large) income going. Rich people have enough wealth that they could easily never work again.
 

Bombadil

Banned
On the one hand, good for you. Live your life.

On the other hand, fuck you for trying to downplay an obvious truth. Wine every night? Vegas 3 to 4 times a year? The expensive cheese!? You're rich, bitch.
 

Grinchy

Banned
Spending as much on groceries as you do on rent sounds crazy to me, but what does my poor ass know? I'm homeless compared to these people.
 

jchap

Member
To be fair though, this is GAF, which is mostly poor students who think 26k can solve all of life's ills
 

grumble

Member
That's a pretty high income. You'd definitely be living a better lifestyle than almost everyone.

It's not like mansion rich, but it's pretty well off.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
High income, but if they don't save and don't have a lot of wealth they're not wealthy. But they chose to spend money that way, so that's really only what's keeping them from being rich. Arguably it's still rich, like someone that one a lottery but spends it all is or was still rich.
 

dabig2

Member
200K is definitely middle class. My family is in that range ($230K) and we live solidly middle class. And my parents might not live paycheck to paycheck, but they're pretty damn close to it I feel.
 

Slavik81

Member
200k as a family? That's actually more like the 10%. And if you increase that to include families making >$150k, that's the 23%.

Mitt Romney, they ain't.

I'll check my post better next time. Editing to the rescue!
 

Yoshiya

Member
I've never even been to a real concert.

Or vegas.

Or owned a suit.

Or drank a $100 bottle of wine.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?!

Eh? I've gone to about ~$200 worth of festivals and concerts in the past month, as have many people I know. Live music is hardly reserved for the particularly wealthy.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
200k is FAR from being rich, after taxes 1/2 is gone anyway. I live in Manhattan, and if you're making 200k an year you're not even middle class


I wouldn't consider someone "rich" unless they were pulling 750K+
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Liberty4all

Banned
High income, but if they don't save and don't have a lot of wealth they're not wealthy. But they chose to spend money that way, so that's really only what's keeping them from being rich. Arguably it's still rich, like someone that one a lottery but spends it all is or was still rich.

Not wealthy in that sense but still rich. Just because they blow all their money on ridiculous excess doesn't make them any less rich.
 

nitewulf

Member
200k is good, but not rich. is it before or after taxes? cost of living in a nice city is very high (if you like having fun).
 

TheNatural

My Member!
Haha I love the Gawker quote here:

Money pays for the costs of life. That is what money does. You can't fucking argue that, hey, your money doesn't go that far after you've already spent it. You used it! Paying taxes and paying bills and paying the mortgage and putting money in a retirement fund and going out to dinner are the things that money gets you. You asshole. Just because you didn't blow it all on jewelry, caviar, and cocaine doesn't mean you didn't get anything out of it. This argument is like a man eating a hearty meal, licking his plate clean, then turning to a starving person and saying, "Look, we're in the same boat. My plate is empty too!"

And Republicans or whoever else wonder why other people bring up class warfare. That's the kind of attitude these people have. Some of them should try to live on Ramen and a pack of bologna for a week and see how it is.
 
Well at least they're contributing to GDP. Without them we'd still be in a recession.

Better than the Occupy burden on our economy.
andherewego.gif

GDP is one of the worst statistical indicators out there because it is given so much weight yet it doesn't take into account distribution of wealth.

I know you are probably just trolling, so I won't bother arguing with you but I think it is an important point to make about GDP. It is complete bullshit if you don't factor in a nation's GINI coefficient.
 
Groceries and eating out: $1,400
Wine: $800
Clothes at Harry Rosen and shoes from online collectible sneaker stores: $1,000
Live music: $200.
Travel: $10,000.

Well no shit. Look at that useless crap you spend money on!

$1,400 for groceries a MONTH? Holy mother of shit...
 
If I end up with a job that pays me a six digit salary I will feel blessed the rest of my life. That's living in luxury that very very few humans will ever have the opportunity to experience. Christ people are greedy
 

ToxicAdam

Member
This sentiment happens a lot for families that have just started making this kind of money and move to a nice neighborhood (full of families or couples that have already been established for decades). So, they feel like they are struggling because of their newish surroundings and how well off the "Jones's" are doing.

Plus, even among the rich (the top 5 percent), there is a vast difference in wealth among them.


economix-11incomepercentile-custom1.jpg



http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/why-so-many-rich-people-dont-feel-very-rich/
 

Liberty4all

Banned
Gawker really summed up my thoughts:


. And here we see the fundamental dishonest characteristic of each and every article which advances this particular enraging argument. "Sure, it's an objectively large sum of money," they say. "But it is far smaller after I spend it."

No shit.

Money pays for the costs of life. That is what money does. You can't fucking argue that, hey, your money doesn't go that far after you've already spent it. You used it! Paying taxes and paying bills and paying the mortgage and putting money in a retirement fund and going out to dinner are the things that money gets you. You asshole. Just because you didn't blow it all on jewelry, caviar, and cocaine doesn't mean you didn't get anything out of it. This argument is like a man eating a hearty meal, licking his plate clean, then turning to a starving person and saying, "Look, we're in the same boat. My plate is empty too!"
 

nateeasy

Banned
Its all about perspective. Someone who lives on $800 a month would consider someone who spends $800 a month on wine to be pretty fucking rich.
 

Alucrid

Banned
On the one hand, good for you. Live your life.

On the other hand, fuck you for trying to downplay an obvious truth. Wine every night? Vegas 3 to 4 times a year? The expensive cheese!? You're rich, bitch.

He's also 37 and, apparently, living alone. So I'm not sure how he's a 'family.'


In certain markets, like Toronto, 200k is not rich. It is upper-middle class.

Yeah, isn't housing absurd in Canadian cities?
 
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