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200k a year families claim they are "not rich"
- Thread starter Liberty4all
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OpinionatedCyborg
Member
200k isn't rich... it is well off. Upper middle class.
obviously, 200k is rich by worldwide standards. hell, 15k a year is quite wealthy when you consider most people barely scrape by in poverty. but if we're using western living as our frame of reference, 200k certainly isn't rich for a household, especially one with several kids.
rich implies assets greatly exceeding 1 million dollars and an income approaching 700k - 1000k per year. super rich would be a figure 10 - 20x that. that's just how I see it myself.
obviously, 200k is rich by worldwide standards. hell, 15k a year is quite wealthy when you consider most people barely scrape by in poverty. but if we're using western living as our frame of reference, 200k certainly isn't rich for a household, especially one with several kids.
rich implies assets greatly exceeding 1 million dollars and an income approaching 700k - 1000k per year. super rich would be a figure 10 - 20x that. that's just how I see it myself.
Because once you're making 150k should be able to invest it and the interest earned on it will quickly (< 15 years) move your income above 1 M. Once you get to 150k, it takes 0 effort to grow wealth.
Unless you spend it all on fine goods and services.
They may not be "rich" but they need to realize that they are better off than the vast majority of people and if they didn't spend so much on luxuries they would be saving. If I was in there position I would probably be spending a little like them but I wouldn't be complaining about it. I would be happy that my income would let me live the life I want to live.
To give the loss of perspective crowd a little charity though...
When you compare what is been achieved with 200k in an expensive city like Toronto, to the kind of ideals we've had of life from previous generations (2.5 kids, 2 story house, white picket fence, car for mom and dad, vacations, savings, etc <- this kind of spending considered responsible and reasonable), then it doesn't seem all that special.
Of course that is in large part due to the rose tinted illusion, plus the fact that our parents generations have eroded modern living viability through real estate bubbles and all kinds of other shitty shit.
And on the other side of it, 200k feels much more towards middle class than the people we portray in the media as rich. You know, the fucks that have mansions, butlers, jets, people that serf under them.
But those kinds of people are more like the kings and queens of history - in all but name. They command as much if not more material wealth and influence.
With this kind of stupid shit going on, it's little surprise that it's so easy to lose perspective on how fucking rich you actually are.
When you compare what is been achieved with 200k in an expensive city like Toronto, to the kind of ideals we've had of life from previous generations (2.5 kids, 2 story house, white picket fence, car for mom and dad, vacations, savings, etc <- this kind of spending considered responsible and reasonable), then it doesn't seem all that special.
Of course that is in large part due to the rose tinted illusion, plus the fact that our parents generations have eroded modern living viability through real estate bubbles and all kinds of other shitty shit.
And on the other side of it, 200k feels much more towards middle class than the people we portray in the media as rich. You know, the fucks that have mansions, butlers, jets, people that serf under them.
But those kinds of people are more like the kings and queens of history - in all but name. They command as much if not more material wealth and influence.
With this kind of stupid shit going on, it's little surprise that it's so easy to lose perspective on how fucking rich you actually are.
Serious?
My family only earns around 100k a year and this is before mortage/strata/bills and those things seem pretty tame..
You have to live a little some times.
A lot of you guys are being asses..200K a year is not rich.
CrocMother
Banned
Family, definitely. A lot of it has to do with things like does the family own their house? are they in debt? Are they good with money?
My family of 5 lived middle class with 65k a year, but I think a lot of that was how well my parents saved and the fact that they owned their house.
Anyone in here an educated male? Yeah it doesn't surprise me that the view of what is "rich" is skewed upwards on a forum like this.
ThisWreckage
Banned
So they make over double most families have coming in? Yeah, that sounds well off to me.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
from the bit posted in the OP it's obvious the person isn't rich as they are living outside their means.
however, with a budget that person could be rich.
I guess I don't get north america at all, 100k a year in euro money the Netherlands is pretty fucking good.
however, with a budget that person could be rich.
I guess I don't get north america at all, 100k a year in euro money the Netherlands is pretty fucking good.
"Only" 100k. What a joke. Seriously, if I was making 100k I could die happy. Get a studio apartment by myself and buy anything I ever want.
I live in Toronto and between me and my gf we make about 150k. 200k isn't really rich for Toronto, but it depends on your definition of "rich" I would say that 200k is certainly well off, but in this city, it is probably in the lower boundaries of the upper class.
edit: The guy makes his own meals and drives a civic.
edit: The guy makes his own meals and drives a civic.
Sorry, but I'm gonna go with $200,000 a year = rich. No average middle class family in North America spends $800 a month on wine or $10,000 a month on travel. NONE. That's what "rich" people do. Everyone else is lucky to have even a fraction of that left over. I mean, $200,000 a year x 5 years = $1,000,000. How many years would it take your average "middle class" family to earn a million dollars? I'm guessing at least two or three times as long.
200k is not rich. It is very comfortable. You can afford anything within the middle class stratosphere. You are a marketer's dream demographic. There are tons of things you simply could never afford on a salary of 200k.
You can't even get a million dollar home for crying out loud. That's how far away you are from actually being a millionaire.
Being rich is not to be confused with wishing we made 200k a year. Middle class simply has the second widest range out there.
You can't even get a million dollar home for crying out loud. That's how far away you are from actually being a millionaire.
Being rich is not to be confused with wishing we made 200k a year. Middle class simply has the second widest range out there.
People bringing up $800 in wine and $10000 are annoying. HE'S NOT RAISING A FAMILY HE'S SOME MIDDLE AGED GUY LIVING ALONE.
:lol, great maths there by the way.
ThisWreckage
Banned
If you've got a fucking maid and you're drinking 100 dollar bottles of wine then you're rich. Nothing is going to change my mind when it comes to that.
Exactly.
But yeah, I was just asking since where I live, if you make $60k and are single, you will be pretty much living an upper middle class life unless you are terrible with money.
Personally, my comfortable level would be $35k if I don't move to another city.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
note he said family
I'm like you - 600 sq ft is about all I need (I want it to be a NICE 600 sq ft in a good location, though). So ~100k per year for me is plenty for rent, transport, 5k - 10k vacation money, 20 - 30k investments, etc. per year.
but once you factor in one or two kids, everything changes. you have to save up for college. you gotta pay extra food, electricity, and transportation bills. there are sports - hockey for one is extremely expensive. private tutors. etc. it adds up.
I just don't view a household that has 2 nurses (70k a year out of school, 90k after 5 years, 100k+ after 10 years) earning 200k or more a year "rich."
$10,000 a month?
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Regional differences.... how do they work!?!?! 200k in middle America isn't 200k on the coasts. The funny thing is the coasts typically have higher state taxes too so you take home a smaller percentage AND everything costs more. There are multimillion dollar homes in areas of Jersey not far from me that would cost 200k, tops, in a place like Wisconsin. Cities are even more expensive. These people are comfortable, stable, and shouldn't be given sympathy, but they aren't "rich." Especially not with the connotation that seems to be suggested here that they are overcompensated.
Yeah, it's only a year. Still, that guy is hilarious. Seems to be having a midlife crisis.
Well, $10,000 a month would be rich for sure. Goddamn! I meant a year.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
a family earning 200k per year in Ontario will pay 73k in taxes, leaving them with 127k spending money.
e: yes, canadians pay more in taxes than you 'mericans.
Except the average household income for Toronto was 98k in 2010
http://www.trra.ca/en/reports/TORegionGenDemo.asp
Yep.
Liberty4all
Banned
127k after taxes is still a lot of fucking money.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
depends how you manage your money. most people spend it all, no matter their income bracket. see: allen iverson.
2 - 3 kids means you probably want a larger house in the suburbs. mortgage payments. you also own a cabin. mom has her car, dad has her car, and maybe a car for the kids when they are 16. gotta put 20 - 30k a year away for retirement for each adult. gotta start putting money into RESPs for the kids so they will have 30 - 40k cash to go to university (and they will need more if they have aspirations of becoming doctors - but perhaps you'll jsut let them cover that themselves with student loans). and so on. if you have a family, it adds up. I am not saying all of these things are necessities, just that these people aren't swimming in their vaults.
if you are a single person who rents, primarily uses public transport or bikes (possible in vancouver, montreal, or toronto), leads a relatively simple lifestyles - then yeah, 127k is a ton of money, more than you will ever need. but I still wouldn't describe that person as rich because they are living within their means. rich implies a different sort of lifestyle - one of opulence with little regard for ones finances because one has so much money to make finances practically irrelevant.
Oh, I wasn't crazy. I removed that part of my post, because I thought I was imaging it.
Gawker actually did say "The Top 1% Must Stop Insisting They’re Not Rich Right This Instant". But these people are nowhere near the top 1%.
Gawker actually did say "The Top 1% Must Stop Insisting They’re Not Rich Right This Instant". But these people are nowhere near the top 1%.
Median is a better measure, as it's skewed less by extremely high income earners. The median was $76,373, as stated in your link.
Average is a poor metric. You should list the median. Which I think someone already posted in this thread.
But that's STILL being rich, because you are buying 200k a year (or more) in goods and services. That is still a wealthy lifestyle.
I live in rural ohio. 50k/yr (with a family) is pretty close to poverty.
I've done all 4 of these and I don't even make 100k a year!
Also yeah, 200k household income for a family with kids is nowhere near rich. Well off middle class, yes. Rich? Hardly. I have some married friends that are close enough to this mark in Atlanta where the cost of living isn't that high and they own regular houses and regular cars.
Okay so the Fiancee and I just thought of a great idea for a reality show:
Take these people who make 200k a year and give them a bit lower than the median income a month for however many months. For the sake of argument lets say we give them 3-4k a month. Now we give them a mortgage that is 25% of that income, have them make payments on a used car, and from there just have them live their lives as Lower Middle Class people.
Make it so that whoever saves the most money per month gets an extra 200 for whatever. And whoever wins get a mountain of cocaine or something.
It would be glorious.
Especially the episode where they tell their kids they have to go to public school now.
Or the episode where they have to do the dishes.
I think their definition of rich would change.
Take these people who make 200k a year and give them a bit lower than the median income a month for however many months. For the sake of argument lets say we give them 3-4k a month. Now we give them a mortgage that is 25% of that income, have them make payments on a used car, and from there just have them live their lives as Lower Middle Class people.
Make it so that whoever saves the most money per month gets an extra 200 for whatever. And whoever wins get a mountain of cocaine or something.
It would be glorious.
Especially the episode where they tell their kids they have to go to public school now.
Or the episode where they have to do the dishes.
I think their definition of rich would change.
If you're spending 200k a year, you're living richly, ergo you are fucking rich.
Liberty4all
Banned
The average is screwed though ... The median is a better number to use? I suck at math ...
If you're spending $200K a year, and you make $200K a year, then you're an idiot.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Out of the groups you think you could make a comedic mockery of you pick the moderately well off middle class? It would be fucking funny if it was a multi-millionare.
That too.
So if I make 200k a year, but live extremely modest and spend 30k a year, then I'm middle class?
You can have different groups.
I imagine the moderately well off people would do the best.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
You think the kids of people in upper middle class households don't do these things? How about we put families from the midwest in little apartments and tell them to find jobs in hyper-competitive markets?
This is just dumb. I don't think anyone is trying to make the argument these people have it rough, but dear god the villification of people who aren't the people actually breaking the economy is just dumb. Families in the 200k range are actually people who typically are paying the most back because once you go up to the next bracket you're going to hit a lot of people using the capital gains rates.
I grew up being close family friends with a household valued at well over $200,000 a year, and the only real differences in their lifestyle and mine were them taking nice vacations and their kids having more video games than I did. $200,000 is not "out of touch rich people" territory.
Because there are many people in this world who make multi-millions a year. It's not fair to classify employees making $200K a year with another employee, or most likely owner, making multi-millions a year. Now, you can consider them rich from your perspective, but it doesn't make sense for another.
The problem with American society is that the top 1% has grown at such an astronomical rate that it has left everyone else with a skewed idea of wealth. Income has become so unfairly distributed that we now have a few rich, many poor, and certain professional employees stuck in limbo somewhere.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
wealthy lifestyle, not a rich lifestyle. there's a huge chasm. your point that you earn 50k and are close to poverty helps demonstrate that 200k isn't really rich. if you earned twice what you earned now, your life would be a lot more comfortable. but you would find ways to spend your money - you'd put more away for retiremnt and for your children's futures. but your lifestyle wouldn't change a ton except being far less stressed out. if you earned 100k more, your lifestyle would start to change quite a bit, but I would still consider your middle class. same with 150k more. it's the difference between tile flooring and linoleum. taking a vacation every year and not taking a vacation. putting away money for your kids to go to school vs not. having 600k saved up for retirement vs working throughout retirement.
only once you get far beyond 200k do you really begin leading the "rich" lifestyle. 200k is wealthy, as you say - upper middle class. not rich. I guess it all depends on perspective.
I guess I don't see a family consisting of a lawyer and a school teacher rich. hell, some long time high school teachers earn over 75k in Canada. would a household consisting of 2 of them be rich?
Servizio
I don't really need a tag, but I figured I'd get one to make people jealous. Is it working?
You know, I could be crazy, but there might some advantage to living in NYC over living in Ohio. The places you can go, the jobs you can work, the people you meet.
Upper-middle class families that are living beyond their means do.
Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. It's not like they are banking 200k - they've got bills, mortgage payments, car notes, kids, college savings, retirement plan contributions, etc. It would take longer than 5 years to save a milllion dollars.
These families sound like idiot money - folks that start making a decent chunk of change and spend like they are rich when they aren't.
You know, I don't normally watch TV, but I'd watch it for a show like this.
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