Ninja Scooter
Member
Lol Justin Timberlake's Michael Jordan story on Kimmel
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2013 NBA Offseason |OT2| The Rich Get Richer, The Poor Get Andrea Bargnani
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Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
The teams of the 90s were just better than today.. and it's not like there are many match ups equal to LBJ.. Gay? Melo? come on..
MorisUkunRasik
Member
And Lebron's greatest shots were what exactly?
And the current heat couldn't go to the second round without Bron in the East in the last 3 seasons?
Lebron's first trip to the Finals was a glorious failure ( his 2nd one was too, but for different reasons), as it has been mentioned the road to the finals was laughable in the east that year, which is why SA swept.
The argument is invalid and almost immediately outs you as not knowing much.
The teams were better before expansion. Afterwards, that's highly questionable. However, that's a silly argument because expansion affected all teams, not just a few.
The competition Lebron faces at his position is already leagues better than what Jordan did. Name Jordan's competition on the perimeter, and try not to dip into the 80s too much to try to make a point. Playing against guys nearing retirement doesn't mean squat.
You name Gay. Why not Durant or Pierce? Are you really trying to be honest, or just omitting names intentionally? Name anyone Jordan faced at his position that was even close to Durant. Also, yes, I'd say Melo is a sight better than anyone you can name that was Jordan's peer at the SG position. Was Jordan ever guarded by anyone remotely as good defensively as Paul George or Kawhi Leonard? I'm not even gonna mention Jimmy Butler, because I think he's a SG. Ironically, one of the best guys to guard Jordan was a PG.
The best part of this is you're looking at those teams Jordan played through the foggy lens of nostalgia, and remembering names after they've had their full careers to establish their reputations and legacies, versus Lebron who's still writing his legacy against guys who are his age or younger. There's a reason Jordan's numbers blew up in the Finals, and it wasn't just because of his insatiable will and whatever bs passes for his memoirs these days. It's also because he played teams that were almost always overmatched. Was Jordan ever an underdog going into the Finals? 1991 was probably the closest, and I don't think they were underdogs even then. I mean, the Lakers were coached by washout Dunleavy, and short of a Perkins miracle, they'd have been swept.
The names on the rosters glow brighter now, because we know more about those guys from back then. Give it some time and the names of today will shine just as bright. Legends are always produced through memories, not the present, but Lebron's current trajectory is already phenomenal. He's started dominating the league from an earlier age than MJ did. Jordan's days on top of the all-time list are numbered, and he knows it well. That's why he's been talking crazy the last couple of years. His fans don't need to drink that koolaid too though. PEACE.
Iconic shots can be compiled after a career is complete. I used that to point out the competition he faced. Those were some of the guys tasked with guarding Jordan in critical moments of playoff games. Get it? Oh wait...you don't.
I never said that, so why are you even bringing it up? I pointed out that Jordan TOO played with a great cast. You really don't understand anything.
Jordan never took a bad team to the Finals. You think Jordan would have taken that Cavs team to the Finals, even in the conference you think was so weak? Really? REALLY?!?
Perhaps you need to come back to this discussion when the smell of Similac is off your breath, because the reality of what happened in Jordan's time predates you by...I'd say a good fucking decade. PEACE.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
You named two players to show weak competition Jordan faced even though one of those shots weren't even in 1 of Jordan's 6 title runs...OK. I get what you're doing, it's just stupid is all, but we all expect that from you.
You say his squad went to the 2nd round without him to demonstrate his team was good without him...something literally no one will argue. Those Bulls teams were some of the best ever.
If Jordan could take that Cavs team to a Finals in that era is all fantasy BS that can't be proven or disproven. Not really worth wasting time discussing. But the conference was really weak at the time and that was further shown by how easily SA tore through them. LETSBOUNCE.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
PP is hardly the player he was.. and KD isn't a good defender.
Joe Dumars is considered one of the greatest sg defenders of all time
Cylde made MJ work on both sides like KD for LBJ..
And the big men who clogged the lane.. pfft. LBJ has little to worry about that
91 The Lakers were heavily favored.. they mashed the west to get the finals, and were suppose to smash the Bulls... While the Heat played the role of of the Lakers to the mavs
lawlohwhat
Banned
man, the lack of respect for THE GLIDE in here is pretty sad
Yeah... or Drazen, or Dominique. Plus, Jordan also played in the era of Magic, Bird, Isiah, and co. Who was his competition at the time? All of them.
Who's the second most accomplished SF of the '00s? Paul Pierce? Great, thanks.
lol they said Wade was the best SG. Not the best article to link to.
Ninja Scooter
Member
It's time to bring back the Gallo vs Beasley debates.
But that's a subject I have no interest in!
iamshadowlark
Banned
Why don't more people talk about how small players where back in the 90s vs today? Or how athletic players are now compared to then. The average player weight today is 10lbs heavier than it was in 1990. You put Lebron there and he would body people even worse than he does now.
Sports medicine today shist on the 90s.
Sports medicine today shist on the 90s.
I have yet to see a big man that moves as well or was as athletic as Shaquille or Hakeem in their primes today. Who even comes close? Yeah, you got Marc and Hibbert who are giants, but they are slow and don't get off the floor -- especially Hibbert.
Dwight is extremely athletic but the dude is short for a center and not very coordinated -- even a past his prime Shaq embarrassed him. Bosh would get eaten up alive by say Buck Williams.
I think the wing players might be bigger and more athletic today, especially at point-guard, but even then, I doubt a guy like Wade or Harden can measure up to Jordan and Drexler athletically.
Dwight is extremely athletic but the dude is short for a center and not very coordinated -- even a past his prime Shaq embarrassed him. Bosh would get eaten up alive by say Buck Williams.
I think the wing players might be bigger and more athletic today, especially at point-guard, but even then, I doubt a guy like Wade or Harden can measure up to Jordan and Drexler athletically.
Tragicomedy
Member
What you mean to say is that HGH today shits on the 90s. Michael Jordan was a Bull. LeBron is roided up like one.
This is probably the most rage-inducing thing people say about Lebron. He took a shitty team to the Finals at 22, that in itself is an accomplishment. What was MJ doing at 22? Oh right, getting bounced in the 1st round with his "incredible killer instinct". GTFO of the playoffs MJ, you're not good enough.
Ok ok, you don't want an age comparison? Lebron took the shitty lowly ass Cavs to the Finals in his 4th year in the league, what was MJ doing in his 4th year in the league? Oh right, getting past the 1st round for the first time after 3 straight 1st round exits, and then getting bounced out in the 2nd round. GTFO of the playoffs MJ, your supposed all-time great killer insinct don't mean shit here, out of the playoffs, goodbye, try again next year.
LOL just because their careers happened to cross a bit doesn't qualify as him "playing in that era". He didn't do shit against any of them until they were pretty much finished, hence him not winning a damn thing until 7 years in the league.
That's like if in the future when people talk about Kobe Bryant's career, an argument is made that "he played In Michael Jordan's era and still won 5 rings! MJ was his competition!". How about no LOL
Oh did he? How'd he do against them while they were anywhere near their prime? Just go take another bong hit and relax. Come back later today when you make sense.
Your original point was that those guys were never Jordan's competition and that he never challenged them... and now when I pointed out that they were in fact, his competition, you go ahead and argue... what exactly?
Also, for someone that is adamant that Lebron never had anyone good play next to him, can you name the second best player on the 1986 Bulls team?
Also, for someone that is adamant that Lebron never had anyone good play next to him, can you name the second best player on the 1986 Bulls team?
Whoever it was, they were probably better than the Cavs 2nd best player when Lebron was singlehandedly taking them deep in the playoffs.
Old ass Elgin Baylor?
lmao never mind I meant george gervin. I know Jordan played with another star who was slightly out of his prime
No, my original point, and I even said as such, was that occasionally crossing paths with them didn't qualify as playing in the Magic and Bird era. If MJ had his accomplishments in the 80s, we wouldn't be having this conversation, but that's why I say I'm not so sure MJ is even better than Magic or Bird. They played against some real competition.
Who was the biggest and baddest in MJ's time? Karl Malone? Lebron is Karl Malone's size but plays like Magic. LBJ in MJ's era would just run over that league. Oooooh no, maybe Gary Payton can stop him hahahaha
remember when MJ flopped when those terrible 90s competition would barely touch him? (apparently the dream team didnt exist in the 90s).
Never mind the hesitation his entire career to take the big shot.
I'm gonna guess that Mr. Troll is under 20 and has never seen MJ play as a Bull. Can we kill this thread now? Preseason has started
He wouldn't flop. He would just bitch about every call though.
every nba player complains. bitching =/ padding stats at the free throw line.
I just think this is a really stupid debate, especially on a place like here. This is an NBA thread but...it's also a little special lol. People hardly really argue with an open mind/objectivity and even to those who do, nobody really knows because it will never happen.
It's basically now just fans rehashing the same points and then declaring its value or lack thereof
And yes, Beasley vs. Gallo debates are far superior than Jordan vs. LeBron debates
It's basically now just fans rehashing the same points and then declaring its value or lack thereof
And yes, Beasley vs. Gallo debates are far superior than Jordan vs. LeBron debates
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Well he scored 63 points after missing most of the year and playing against the best team in the league and probably one of top 3 teams ever.
As for the 2nd best player of the '86 team lol a very younf Oakley, a washed Gervin, Woodridge, or PAxon?? That was one shitty team bro lol
Also the fact that LBJ took that team to finals says more about his competition than Lebron.
Dominican Power
Member
Agree to disagree and close this thread already.
Naw, MVP will show up and call it the best basketball game of all time.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Psychological Intellect
Banned
well, it has a ton of problems(association, my player, lazy ass production) but the gameplay is amazing.
I can't really think of a better basketball game.
The lack of big men in the league, and the fact that Dwight is by default the best Center, shows the league is overall smaller.
remember when MJ flopped when those terrible 90s competition would barely touch him? (apparently the dream team didnt exist in the 90s).
Never mind the hesitation his entire career to take the big shot.
I'm gonna guess that Mr. Troll is under 20 and has never seen MJ play as a Bull. Can we kill this thread now? Preseason has started
Here's MJ acting like a freight truck hit him when in reality it was just a standard defensive play. Hey, MJ had to do what he had to do against the Pistons who kept owning his overrated ass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nli62-Uhsls
And Mr. Troll is close to 30, now run along and go play in the NHL thread, sport.
Don't put quotes around some shit I never said as if it's a direct quote. Wow, you really can't read. I said he didn't accomplish anything in the 80s against the strong players in that era, while they were in or even close to their prime.
Then by that token, Lebron in the '00s was a bigger failure -- he didn't even make it to the playoffs until his third year in the league. Jordan went to the playoffs his rookie year and won MVP by his 4th. Lebron didn't win MVP until his 6th season. What a loser.
Easy to make the playoffs in such a weak league. In 86-87 the Bulls were 40-42 and made the playoffs LMAO
You think Malone played like Magic? Wow, quit posting now lol
Ok, so in your words, "MJ squeaking into the playoffs with 40 wins is a big accomplishment"?
4th year for Lebron: Finals
4th year for MJ: First time making it past 1st round lmao
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