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2015 NCAA Tournament March Madness |OT| 67 Teams Vie For Second Place

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R

Randolph Freelander

Member
Some Duke stuff from Chad Ford's chat today

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/51709/

Chase (Gettysburg) [via mobile]

What do you think Tyus Jones will do? And, do you believe he neccsarily has to leave now just because he had a great freshman year? If he left it would seem odd because Duke right now doesn't have a point guard recruited next year to replace him.

Chad Ford (2:02 PM)

Tough call. He's played as well as you can possibly play in the biggest game of the season. NBA folks love his basketball IQ and feel for the game. It's special, especially for a freshman. But he has some major weaknesses when it comes to the NBA. If he was two inches taller or a more explosive athlete, I think he'd be a Top 5 pick. But as it stands, he's probably in the 17 to 25 range. The question is whether he could improve his stock by returning to Duke. I don't think so. He has a ceiling because of his physical limitations. So ... if the NBA is his dream, I'm not sure his stock will ever be higher.
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Dre Kisch (NYC)

I am starting to think Grayson Allen should declare for the draft. After the game he played against Wisconsin not sure how much higher he could go next year (maybe 10 spots higher?)? If he's a first round pick now, why would he stay? He is going to have really high expectations next year, perhaps unrealistic. Some team will draft him in the first round this year- he can shoot, has decent size for the 2, and has a great motor (plus- he's a bit of an unknown- great risk great reward, which should help him). Thoughts?

Chad Ford (2:06 PM)

I'm not sure what he should do. All I know is that I spoke or texted with dozens of NBA folks yesterday and many of them (though certainly not all) thought he'd be a first rounder if he declared. One GM was particularly interesting. He texted "Yes. My staff and I were just talking about that. Who would you take between Allen and [Devin] Booker? It's a tough call." Booker is taller and probably has a better basketball IQ and feel. Allen is a much better athlete, plays with a stronger motor and many scouts think he can play some point. Both are lights out shooters. If Allen comes back, I think he could be a late lottery to mid-first round pick -- especially if Tyus Jones leaves and he gets to play point guard for Duke next year. If he declares this year, he's more a late first round pick. Somewhere in the 20s to early 30s. So there's incentive to stay. He clearly has talent. I don't think the title game was a fluke (he had 27 points against Wake Forest earlier in the year). And if Jones is leaving, I think the incentive to stay grows even stronger. But if he does leave, he isn't crazy. He'll go a lot higher than many of the other underclassmen who have been declaring.
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Griffin (Chicago)

Do you think that Winslow will be a better player in the league than Okafor?

Chad Ford (2:15 PM)

I really like Justise Winslow. A lot. I've liked him all year. And I love what he did in the tournament. But let's be real. All of the hate on Okafor is silly. He's huge. He's incredibly skilled in the low post. He's going to command a double-team every night. Few big men in the NBA have his footwork or hands. He needs to get in better shape. He needs to improve defensively. I'm not sure either will ever be a strength for him. But he's going to be so good offensively. To me the only players that you can really justify taking ahead of him are Karl-Anthony Towns and Emmanuel Mudiay. As for Winslow, I love his energy, his toughness, his nose for the ball. I love that he's improved his jumper when he gets his feet set. But over Okafor? Not sure a month of really strong performances justifies that.
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F

Fjordson

Member
Feel like the World team will wreck USA this year. Thon Maker, some giant Asian guy who's supposed to be good, Ben Simmons, Skal Labissiere, Chieck Diallo, etc. They have a good team.

perfectchaos007 said:
Unless I have totally misread Kentucky fans feelings on the Harrison twins, I don't think they will lose much sleep over this.
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I will. They took us to two final fours (and a title game) and an undefeated run through the SEC season and tourney. They're two of the most successful players UK has had during Cal's time here.

Even if there wasn't the 38-1 this year, we don't come anywhere close to a title last year without Aaron Harrison. Twins have been awesome imo.

But I'm not surprised they're leaving. The one that hurts is Devin Booker. He wasn't on anyone's radar really as a one-and-done, but his stock has risen a lot. Isaiah Briscoe with sophomore Ulis and Booker would have been a really nice trio of perimeter guys next year.
 
P

perfectchaos007

Member
Randolph Freelander said:
Instant update: it went off the rails at "hello."
Click to expand...

The best recent example of LeBatard going off the rails..
right here

Fjordson said:
Feel like the World team will wreck USA this year. Thon Maker, some giant Asian guy who's supposed to be good, Ben Simmons, Skal Labissiere, Chieck Diallo, etc. They have a good team.


I will. They took us to two final fours (and a title game) and an undefeated run through the SEC season and tourney. They're two of the most successful players UK has had during Cal's time here.

Even if there wasn't the 38-1 this year, we don't come anywhere close to a title last year without Aaron Harrison. Twins have been awesome imo.

But I'm not surprised they're leaving. The one that hurts is Devin Booker. He wasn't on anyone's radar really as a one-and-done, but his stock has risen a lot. Isaiah Briscoe with sophomore Ulis and Booker would have been a really nice trio of perimeter guys next year.
Click to expand...

Ah well thats good to hear. I only have heard UK fans shitting on them here, so I assumed they weren't well liked.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
perfectchaos007 said:
The best recent example of LeBatard going off the rails..
right here



Ah well thats good to hear. I only have heard UK fans shitting on them here, so I assumed they weren't well liked.
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Some definitely have, especially on Twitter (there are some really dumb UK fans on twitter). And the Twins are pretty reserved and closed off to media and whatnot, so body language professors on twitter and some media people have pinned "bad attitudes" onto them, but they've done really well at UK.
 
D

Deleted member 12837

Unconfirmed Member
Wow, Tokoto leaving early. Didn't expect that.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/unc-s-jp-tokoto-to-declare-for-the-2015-nba-draft-130246490-nba.html

edit:

Not making Roy or UNC sound very appealing for non-1-and-done recruits that want/need to develop a bit in college:

He could’ve returned to Carolina to finish his career as a three-year starter, but said he believes his best chance for developing his game will come from immersing himself in a professional environment.

“I feel like there can be a lot more to me as a player, more than just the defensive player who can occasionally dunk the ball,” Tokoto told Yahoo Sports. “I know I can be so much more, but I’m not sure that I’m pushed to be that much more [in college].

“I want to focus on my game, working with trainers and pro coaches over the summer and next year. I think that’ll give me the best chance to grow than staying school and being that player that fit into the mold of my first three years [at Carolina].”
Click to expand...
 
D

DominoKid

Member
404Ender said:
Wow, Tokoto leaving early. Didn't expect that.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/unc-s-jp-tokoto-to-declare-for-the-2015-nba-draft-130246490-nba.html

edit:

Not making Roy or UNC sound very appealing for non-1-and-done recruits that want/need to develop a bit in college:
Click to expand...

10g3EL4.gif


addition by subtraction.

cant shoot. cant dribble. constant dumb plays and inconsistent effort.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
Honestly, UNC gets better without Tokoto.

Justin Jackson getting more run will let him develop and he has by far a higher ceiling than JP does.

His comments did throw Huck under the bus a bit though.
 
D

DominoKid

Member
Grover Cleveland said:
Honestly, UNC gets better without Tokoto.

Justin Jackson getting more run will let him develop and he has by far a higher ceiling than JP does.

His comments did throw Huck under the bus a bit though.
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it's funny because the problem stares tokoto right in the mirror everyday. i bet roy hated coaching around his fuckups. that's why he stayed on his ass more than anybody all year.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
Hasphat'sAnts said:
Why would anybody stay?



Honestly, my conscience doesn't let me ask these kids to stay and may end up getting hurt or lose out on millions.
Click to expand...

I don't know. I don't even know why some in the media are questioning if Jones would leave. To be honest, Allen might even need to give it some extra thought.

Duke might play next year with 6 scholarship players and 0 point guards.
 
D

DominoKid

Member
jones gone and grayson probably should go. i'd rather get better on a guaranteed contract than for free unless i thought i could vault up to lotto from mid-late first. grayson can. jones wont.

Hasphat'sAnts said:
Why would anybody stay?



Honestly, my conscience doesn't let me ask these kids to stay and may end up getting hurt or lose out on millions.
Click to expand...

what them 2nd round contracts look like?
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
DominoKid said:
what them 2nd round contracts look like?
Click to expand...

non-guaranteed so no one gives a shit. :p

Unlike first round picks, who have a scale salary (see question number 49), second round picks do not have any specific salary restrictions. They may sign for any amount from the minimum to the maximum, but players who last to the second round of the draft seldom command more than the minimum salary.
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BTW, the "Allen should go" stuff is bullshit. He's borderline first rounder due to recency bias. GMs late in the first are all bumping up against the salary cap so they'll be drafting Euro dudes who they can stash away.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
Grayson's going to literally go from the end of the bench to probably the number one option next year if he stays. He could ball out and play himself into the lottery.

On the other hand, he could always get hurt or worse, underperform and get JMM'd.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Second round is more of a gamble obviously than lottery dudes, but it's actually not that bad these days. Gary Parrish from CBS did a good article on the second rounders last year. Basically saw that like 80% of second round picks end up getting guaranteed money.
 
T

Talon

Member
Grover Cleveland said:
Honestly, UNC gets better without Tokoto.

Justin Jackson getting more run will let him develop and he has by far a higher ceiling than JP does.

His comments did throw Huck under the bus a bit though.
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Totally agree. He hit his ceiling at UNC, and it's going to be nice to save those 3-4 possessions where he has brain farts on the perimeter.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
The lowkey biggest news this week is Jeff Capel taking his name out of the hat for the ASU job. He's been huge in the recruiting game. They probably don't win the title Monday without him because he was the point-man in the Jones/Okafor and Winslow recruitments.

I'm sure Duke offered him first dibs to the throne when K leaves to get him to stay.

Speaking of K leaving

Randolph Freelander said:
I just wonder how long of a honeymoon does Coach K get from truly101's calls for retirement.

Duke fans, where do you put the over/under? Let's start it at 14 games.
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Under on 14 games. Probably when they lose badly to Kentucky in the Champions Classic (which is like the second game of the year) or to Maryland in the ACC/B1G Challenge.
 
D

Deleted member 12837

Unconfirmed Member
Grayson needs to stay. Let's be real, he had 2 big games this season. Once the hype of his performance against Wisconsin dies down, GMs are going to realize how small the sample size of him at full potential is (basically the Wisconsin and Wake games...that's it). He should have a big year next year and then he can think about going. The kid was dying to play at Duke though, so it wouldn't surprise me if he stays an extra year on top of that.

If Tyus wants to play in the NBA, he should go. His stock can't get any higher, no matter what he does next year. The only hesitations scouts have about him are related to his height and size, and those aren't going to change by staying in college another year so...

Grover Cleveland said:
The lowkey biggest news this week is Jeff Capel taking his name out of the hat for the ASU job. He's been huge in the recruiting game. They probably don't win the title Monday without him because he was the point-man in the Jones/Okafor and Winslow recruitments.

I'm sure Duke offered him first dibs to the throne when K leaves to get him to stay.
Click to expand...

Agreed. And I'd be OK with that. He's been excellent both with recruiting and working very closely with K on just about everything else.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
Now I see that Arizona State is looking at Bobby Hurley

Their shortlist must look like this:


Bobby Hurley
Chris Collins
Steve Wojciechowski
Jason Williams
Chris Duhon
Daniel Ewing
Greg Paulus
Kyrie Irving
Seth Curry
Quinn Cook
Tyus Jones
Mike Krzyzewski
 
D

DominoKid

Member
UCLA
SaiM2.png


it's us, KU or UK. the rest of them shits may as well be basketball siberia for an elite recruit getting lots of mainstream attention.
 
N

NaturalHigh

Member
Saw something on Facebook along the lines of the ref that made the out of bounds call in the championship was out of a job. Any truth to this?
 
F

Fjordson

Member
God I wish Jaylen Brown would go to UK. Cal is always missing on athletic small forwards. The last one we had balled the fuck out, won the title and then went #2 in the draft, but we haven't gotten one since.

Addidas shit will probably steer him to UCLA though.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
adidas got UCLA Shabazz Muhammad, why can't they get Brown too?

I wonder if adidas will start funnelling players to Wisconsin now that they're knocking on the door. My bad, I forgot that Bo's too good to rent players and apparently wouldn't take great players if they were dropped in his lap.
 
T

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
Bowser said:
Surprised at the JP news. Opens up an immediate starting spot for either Brown or Ingram tho...
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Did you already forget Jackson?

Not sure what to make of Tokoto. He can't shoot for shit, but is crazy athletic. Soooo... off to China I guess.

NaturalHigh said:
Saw something on Facebook along the lines of the ref that made the out of bounds call in the championship was out of a job. Any truth to this?
Click to expand...

Might be the head of officials. He said today that the in game refs were looking at mostly two angles of the play. Well he apparently saw the one where it showed the ball out on Winslow, could have called them back to the monitor and still didn't.
 
B

Bowser

Member
truly101 said:
Did you already forget Jackson?

Not sure what to make of Tokoto. He can't shoot for shit, but is crazy athletic. Soooo... off to China I guess.
Click to expand...

Not at all. Jackson will play 2G while Brown or Ingram will play the 3.

Paige/Jackson/Brown or Ingram/Brice/Meeks

I think Brown ends up at Cal or Michigan tho. It's Ingram or bust. If we don't land either, than the starting lineup is pretty much set as:

Berry/Paige/Jackson/Brice/Meeks
 
D

DominoKid

Member
Grover Cleveland said:
adidas got UCLA Shabazz Muhammad, why can't they get Brown too?

I wonder if adidas will start funnelling players to Wisconsin now that they're knocking on the door. My bad, I forgot that Bo's too good to rent players and apparently wouldn't take great players if they were dropped in his lap.
Click to expand...

ah yeah i forgot about Shabazz and the UNC washouts.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
NaturalHigh said:
Saw something on Facebook along the lines of the ref that made the out of bounds call in the championship was out of a job. Any truth to this?
Click to expand...

truly101 said:
Might be the head of officials. He said today that the in game refs were looking at mostly two angles of the play. Well he apparently saw the one where it showed the ball out on Winslow, could have called them back to the monitor and still didn't.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's the head of officials that's on the way out, and his statement about the in-game referees not seeing all the angles was directly contradicted anyway by the NCAA VP (Dan Gavitt).
 
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