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23 Times America Failed Black People in 2014

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noquarter

Member
Disagree? I'm talking about the tactic of discrediting the list in order to deny the issue of racism in the US. Seems there's a whole bunch of posters in this thread who would rather talk about meaningless sales numbers of white musicians than actually acknowledging the things that the list puts a spotlight on.

And being a member of an oppressed group of people doesn't give you a free pass for tacitly supporting the white supremacy we live in.
The list want bring outright dismissed by almost anyone in this thread. Most people that have posted and kept posting have said the list would have more impact of certain items were removed or better clarified.

A lot of items have been discussed in other threads on GAF, so why continue discussing then in here? If the list was prepared in a way that you would have difficulty arguing any of the points more people might take notice of it and actually understand why the issue is so big. Instead there are quite a few points that don't really seem to get the authors point across.

List should have been 17 items, possibly even 13. Would have been a prime number still and been a tighter list overall.
 
The list want bring outright dismissed by almost anyone in this thread. Most people that have posted and kept posting have said the list would have more impact of certain items were removed or better clarified.
Yes, it is being dismissed.

Even the garbage clickbait you posted is inaccurate. Sherman went off in the conference championship game, not the Superbowl.

Look, there are serious problems going on that need to be addressed. But lumping in an idiot mayor with Ferguson, or trying to make us feel bad because players were getting millions while playing for a racist owner (whom was known to be racist LONG before those guys ever signed their contracts) is absolute liberal bitching at its very worst.

Seriously. Comparing that mayor to the Garner case is essentially spitting in the face of everyone who cares.
Ehh the Gap one really isnt bad to be honest. A lot of these just seem like padding to fill the list

24. This article, for being the shittiest of shit clickbait.

I fully agree with this. Only 5 points seemed valid, the rest were straight up false or grasping for straws.

Some of the examples are just.. lol

There are a lot of good points there but a few should have definitely been cut from then list.

This is a very stupid list.

Sherman was called a thug after the NFC championship game, not Superbowl.

Many of these come down to the US media or social media needing/wanting a story or some drama.

None of these people posted again, and this is just this thread's first page of completely dismissive responses with no followups or attempts to engage with the actual issues.
 

Serra

Member
White people should not rap? Man, someone is salty about the Grammys.

Disclaimer so posters like Liu Kang dont't get mad. i think racism is a huge issue all around the world and most of these examples are totally valid.
 

Nephtis

Member
White people should not rap? Man, someone is salty about the Grammys.

Disclaimer so posters like Liu Kang dont't get mad. i think racism is a huge issue all around the world and most of these examples are totally valid.

lol

OT: there are some things in the list that are absolute garbage, and I think the criticism of it is warranted. Having said that, I don't that a list that either tried or was accidentally incendiary should take away from a lot of the real issues going on today. The bigger question is though, is this thread the right forum for it?

There's a lot of threads that are dedicated to the listed issues. Wouldn't it be better to link to those threads, and just give overall impressions here?
 

Kaladin

Member
I didn't know that about Thug Kitchen. I honestly had never heard of it till I saw the book on Amazon. I read a few of the sample pages and thought it came across as playing to the stereotypes a bit too much. It makes sense now when I find out it was written by white people.
 

Malyse

Member
White people should not rap? Man, someone is salty about the Grammys.

Disclaimer so posters like Liu Kang dont't get mad. i think racism is a huge issue all around the world and most of these examples are totally valid.
Pay more attention. Literally no one is saying white people shouldn't rap.
 

Nokagi

Unconfirmed Member
Proof that bigger is not always better. You have 5-10 very strong legitimate issues here without having to inflate it with some nonsense were you are clearly reaching very far.
 
4. Black culture and music kept getting appropriated by white artists

The whole thing against cultural appropriation is ridiculous... Cultures mix all the time, especially pop-culture! Look at how American pop-culture has been appropriated around the world, in music and movies! This results in a lot of creativity and new ideas while also bringing different cultures together in a positive way. Yet this author and others who decry this natural process would demonize it. You cannot and should not tell someone who or where they can take inspiration. This smacks of the talk segregationists used when sports leagues integrated... the blacks are taking over our sports! Bah... disgusting
 

Malyse

Member
4. Black culture and music kept getting appropriated by white artists

The whole thing against cultural appropriation is ridiculous... Cultures mix all the time, especially pop-culture! Look at how American pop-culture has been appropriated around the world, in music and movies! This results in a lot of creativity and new ideas while also bringing different cultures together in a positive way. Yet this author and others who decry this natural process would demonize it. You cannot and should not tell someone who or where they can take inspiration.
You don't understand what is being said. I suggest to read the linked articles under that and educate yourself.
 
You don't understand what is being said. I suggest to read the linked articles under that and educate yourself.

What do those articles have to do with: "it incensed many to read headlines claiming Iggy Azalea "runs hip-hop" and witness Macklemore virtually sweep the rap categories at the 2014 Grammy Awards." That just sounds like people are upset that white artists are succeeding at something normally dominated by black artists.

Also the bit about ebola? People didn't care until cases started appearing on their doorstep is more likely the cause. Not to mention the fact that most of the cases brought to America were by white people who had risked their lives to go over to Africa and help out. Ridiculous.
 

Nokagi

Unconfirmed Member
What nonsense?

4,5,6,9,10,11,12,14,16,17,18,21. In these you are either reaching for something not really there (like the Ebola thing) or it's some silly pop culture/social media thing. Not saying you can't be upset by the small things but honestly they seem rather trivial and unimportant in the grand scheme of things actually facing black people.
 

Infinite

Member
4. Black culture and music kept getting appropriated by white artists

The whole thing against cultural appropriation is ridiculous... Cultures mix all the time, especially pop-culture! Look at how American pop-culture has been appropriated around the world, in music and movies! This results in a lot of creativity and new ideas while also bringing different cultures together in a positive way. Yet this author and others who decry this natural process would demonize it. You cannot and should not tell someone who or where they can take inspiration. This smacks of the talk segregationists used when sports leagues integrated... the blacks are taking over our sports! Bah... disgusting

Research the concept of Cultural Appropriation. I generally don't agree with a lot of arguments put forth about what is and isn't Cultural Appropriation but I wouldn't go out of my to dismiss the concept entirely while demonstrating how little I actually understand of it as you just did.
 
Research the concept of Cultural Appropriation. I generally don't agree with a lot of arguments put forth about what is and isn't Cultural Appropriation but I wouldn't go out of my to dismiss the concept entirely while demonstrating how little I actually understand of it as you just did.

I understand it, I just disagree that when a white artist wins awards for rapping he is guilty of it. The examples linked below the main blurb have nothing to do with that.
 

Infinite

Member
I understand it, I just disagree that when a white artist wins awards for rapping he is guilty of it. The examples linked below the main blurb have nothing to do with that.
lol no one is blaming Macklemore for winning a music award bro. This is more about the way he is celebrated by popular culture vs black artist than it is about him.
 

Malyse

Member
I understand it, I just disagree that when a white artist wins awards for rapping he is guilty of it. The examples linked below the main blurb have nothing to do with that.
You do realize those articles were linked in the main blurb, right? And that I only separated them to make them more noticeable, right? They aren't a separate thing at all and you don't know what you're on about. The things you are accusing the author of saying are not what they are saying.
 
lol no one is blaming Macklemore for winning a music award bro. This is more about him being celebrated by popular culture than it is about him.

I didn't say they were blaming him, the article says people were "incensed" by it? So basically black people were angry because a white artist won some awards for rapping? And because a white person won awards in a genre dominated by black artists that is an example of how America failed black people in 2014?
 

Infinite

Member
I didn't say they were blaming him, the article says people were "incensed" by it? So basically black people were angry because a white artist won some awards for rapping? And that is an example of how America failed black people in 2014?

You're deliberately being obtuse.
 
I dont get Miley Cyrus shaking her ass like a stripper as "cultural appropriation"
Her saying she likes "hood" music though..doesnt sound like she has any kind of respect for the genres she imitates.

Minaj getting abuse for the kind of racy magazine photos white celebs have been doing forever is because she's a black woman with a big ole ass. That offends some people.

Oh yeah and fuck Variety for claiming Elvis invented rock music and fuck Vogue too for being generally dodgy about black female representation in their mag.

Macklemore is tricky. Every rap head I know recognizes the dude makes music for people who dont like rap, and the people that sing his praises are the ones who talk about how hes the first rapper with something to say since...Eminem!
That bullshit is sort of rage inducing. Like really, Mr. Ignorant asshole, you dont know the first thing about the genre, cant be bothered to listen past generic billboard songs, but you see fit to proclaim this one hipster dude, Macklemore, is the first rapper in years with something "meaningful to say"?
Fuck off.
 
How dare that mayor take a pic with a volunteer, and mirror a generic looking finger point. Think of the children.

Some are very very valid points, but a few of these really hurt the impact of the list.
 

Infinite

Member
I dont get Miley Cyrus shaking her ass like a stripper as "cultural appropriation".
Eh it has more to do with her basically borrowing elements of another culture to shed her former identity as Hanna Montana or a Disney idol. Wouldn't reduce it to just "her shaking her ass". Anyway it's even more interesting how the media talks about Miley Cyrus vs any black female pop artists, even in feminists circles. Miley Cyrus is heralded as a feminist icon and the next Madonna for what she did at the VMAs, a performance where black female bodies were used as props, but Beyoncé isn't a feminist because she caters to male gaze, somehow, even though her audience is predominately women and gay men. Something isn't right about that picture.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
I dont get Miley Cyrus shaking her ass like a stripper as "cultural appropriation"
Her saying she likes "hood" music though..doesnt sound like she has any kind of respect for the genres she imitates.

Minaj getting abuse for the kind of racy magazine photos white celebs have been doing forever is because she's a black woman with a big ole ass. That offends some people.

Oh yeah and fuck Variety for claiming Elvis invented rock music and fuck Vogue too for being generally dodgy about black female representation in their mag.

Twerking has been a thing for a long while now. But suddenly she starts doing it and everybody is hip to what twerking is. White chicks now think it's cool to twerk, the word is now in the oxford dictionary.
 

Malyse

Member
Twerking has been a thing for a long while now. But suddenly she starts doing it and everybody is hip to what twerking is. White chicks now think it's cool to twerk, the word is now in the oxford dictionary.
And we end up with shit like this:
tumblr_inline_mk0wkvHBGU1qz4rgp.gif
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
The list is pretty straightforward, but saying Macklemore is appropriating anything is silly. He's not trying to be anything but a white dude from Seattle. Iggy is a whole other ball of wax, but I find it funny that entire entry was basically "all white people in rap are the same." Why else would you put Macklemore/Iggy in a sentence? Name me anything that is the same between them except their lack of melanin?

I didn't say they were blaming him, the article says people were "incensed" by it? So basically black people were angry because a white artist won some awards for rapping? And because a white person won awards in a genre dominated by black artists that is an example of how America failed black people in 2014?

To be fair, black and white rap fans, for one shining moment, united in a sign of what the future of perfect race relations could be in saying "What the actual fuck?" at Macklemore winning over Kendrick. I mean, they both put out great records, but GKMC was a straight classic.
 

Malyse

Member
The list is pretty straightforward, but saying Macklemore is appropriating anything is silly. He's not trying to be anything but a white dude from Seattle. Iggy is a whole other ball of wax, but I find it funny that entire entry was basically "all white people in rap are the same." Why else would you put Macklemore/Iggy in a sentence? Name me anything that is the same between them except their lack of melanin?

WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper

----

You should really read those linked articles.
 

Mumei

Member
How dare that mayor take a pic with a volunteer, and mirror a generic looking finger point. Think of the children.

Some are very very valid points, but a few of these really hurt the impact of the list.

I think you misunderstood the one about the mayor. She wasn't being criticized.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper

----

You should really read those linked articles.

I did. The concept is not new, either. If they had just left it at Iggy, or used even Eminem who went through a wearing doo rags phase before, I'm guessing Obie Trice smacked it off his head, they would have had a stronger point.
 

Kinyou

Member
Eh it has more to do with her basically borrowing elements of another culture to shed her former identity as Hanna Montana or a Disney idol. Wouldn't reduce it to just "her shaking her ass". Anyway it's even more interesting how the media talks about Miley Cyrus vs any black female pop artists, even in feminists circles. Miley Cyrus is heralded as a feminist icon and the next Madonna for what she did at the VMAs, a performance where black female bodies were used as props, but Beyoncé isn't a feminist because she caters to male gaze, somehow, even though her audience is predominately women and gay men. Something isn't right about that picture.
Miley was praised for her VMA performance? All I remember is ridicule and people cringing.
 
Goddamn, I just listened to that Cave Bitch song someone brought up earlier in the thread. What was going through Cube's mind when he made that song, jesus christ. Some Beverly Hills jump off must have pissed him the fuck off.
 

Malyse

Member
she's white?
Vanessa’s father is caucasian, and has Irish ancestry; he is also said to have Native American roots, although it is not clear if these have been documented/verified. Vanessa’s mother is Filipino, and has Filipino, Spanish, and Chinese ancestry.
Miley was praised for her VMA performance? All I remember is ridicule and people cringing.
You missed the pro Miley push back.
 

gerg

Member
Twerking has been a thing for a long while now. But suddenly she starts doing it and everybody is hip to what twerking is. White chicks now think it's cool to twerk, the word is now in the oxford dictionary.

What's the problem with "twerk" being in the OED? The OED exists as a record of commonly used English words. Unless there are specific problems with the way the word is catalogued and referenced, surely the term being recognised in this way is an example itself of acknowledging diverse cultures?

I can appreciate that the frustration might be that the word only enters into the OED once it gains popularity via the diffusion into mainstream (more white) culture, but almost any term will have to achieve that in order to be cross the vague boundary of being "popular enough".
 
What's the problem with "twerk" being in the OED? The OED exists as a record of commonly used English words. Unless there are specific problems with the way the word is catalogued and referenced, surely the term being recognised in this way is an example itself of acknowledging diverse cultures?

He is alluding to the problem of certain things only being accepted when a white celebrity does it. Black and brown women have been twerking since the 80s. And been shat upon for doing it too, by feminists and snooty upper class people. Incidentally, the same ones who now plaster Kardashian's ass all over the front pages of their magazines and praise her for ignoring anorexic standards of beauty.
I can remember in the early 2000s, a big ole ass was consigned to the pages of Vibe and XXL magazines and urban fashion catalogues, it wasnt something that was embraced by "white" culture.
 

gerg

Member
He is alluding to the problem of certain things only being accepted when a white celebrity does it. Black and brown women have been twerking since the 80s. And been shat upon for doing it too, by feminists and snooty upper class people. Incidentally, the same ones who now plaster Kardashian's ass all over the front pages of their magazines and praise her for ignoring anorexic standards of beauty.

Fair enough, but I would differentiate between the way a term, act or concept becomes popular and how popular it is.

I appreciate the problematic nature of Miley Cyrus twerking (in the manner in which she did so) but I feel that bringing up the OED is a pretty arcane point to make. The OED exists to record popular (and thus useful) vocabulary. Irrespective of how a word becomes well-known and thus frequently used by people, the OED would be failing in its job if it did not recognise that word's popularity.
 
Fair enough, but I would differentiate between the way a term, act or concept becomes popular and how popular it is.

I appreciate the problematic nature of Miley Cyrus twerking (in the manner in which she did so) but I feel that bringing up the OED is a pretty arcane point to make. The OED exists to record popular (and thus useful) vocabulary. Irrespective of how a word becomes well-known and thus frequently used by people, the OED would be failing in its job if it did not recognise that word's popularity.

Right but I think the problem he's alluding to is it only ever became a word worth mentioning when white people started using it/appropriating it.

Again the problem with culture appropriation is that often it's largely ignored, dismissed or frowned upon by the white majority and then a white person does the exact same thing and suddenly the white majority have a change of heart and often cite that brave white trail blazer as the source for whatever has been appropriated.
(Or often what's being appropriated is appropriated ironically or in a jokey sense. Basically boiling down a culture to a punchline)

See Elvis for Rock and Roll
See Miley and other white women for twerking
See Iggy and J.Lo being credited for the booty phenomena.

These have been things that existed in the black community for decades. It's just when a white person does it is it deemed appropriate or worthy of mention.

That's why the OED thing is a bit annoying but at the same time it's understandable. Black people only make up 13% of the population so I don't think OED is ever going to put something in there from the black community unless white people start using it.
 

gerg

Member
That's why the OED thing is a bit annoying but at the same time it's understandable. Black people only make up 13% of the population so I don't think OED is ever going to put something in there from the black community unless white people start using it.

But I think this is an aspect of the relationship between culture and subculture at large. I think it's going to be difficult, if not impossible, for any concept to be considered desirable and attractive while arguing that its use and adoption should be limited, especially to the subculture where it originated. This is where, perhaps, twerking and Native American headdresses might differ, for (as far as I can understand it) the discourse surrounding the latter is as much about the important limitations and austerity concerning the use of the headdress (even in Native American culture), whereas the former is a championing of its acceptance as a form of expression.

Granted, its wide remit and focus on historical content may not make it the most relevant authority, but with the OED specifically it is important to remember that it caters to English-language speakers across the world. I know this forum has a particularly American focus, but that includes, for example, the proportion of English speakers in India, for example, as well as those in UK and those in many other countries who use English as a second language. Irrespective of the ethnicity of those speakers, a concept is going to become more relevant to use the more people use it. Based on sheer volume alone, that's more likely to happen when white people start using that word too.

Although I have my own difficulties with the concept of gay identity itself, as a gay man I see an analogue with how anal sex is starting to transfer from within of the (male) gay community and into the wider community. As much as this provides a validation of gay culture, it also acts as a risk by threatening to extinguish yet another aspect of gay identity that distinguishes it from the mainstream. And the gay community (like many other subcultures before it) is going to struggle with responding to it - if lots of straight people start having gay sex, then what's so gay about it?

Edit: So, with regards to acts like twerking and the tropes and meaning that accompany rap, I do believe that in order for those acts to be truly recognised, acknowledged and admired, at one point they will invariably have to leave the black culture where they originated and take their own position in the mainstream, white culture, one which will then maintain no innate connection to the black culture that spawned them. And, surely, it will be better if black artists gain the acknowledgement they deserve for helping to build that culture in the process. But I dare say that if it weren't Miley Cyrus twerking now, it would be some other white artist in 10, 20, or 30 years time. To me, as I have argued previously, what is most pejorative about the discourse is how these acts and identities are often still denigrated in the subculture where they originated after they have been appropriated into the mainstream, and that I think is something which is going to be most effective to change.
 

tbm24

Member
Right but I think the problem he's alluding to is it only ever became a word worth mentioning when white people started using it/appropriating it.

Again the problem with culture appropriation is that often it's largely ignored, dismissed or frowned upon by the white majority and then a white person does the exact same thing and suddenly the white majority have a change of heart and often cite that brave white trail blazer as the source for whatever has been appropriated.
(Or often what's being appropriated is appropriated ironically or in a jokey sense. Basically boiling down a culture to a punchline)

See Elvis for Rock and Roll
See Miley and other white women for twerking
See Iggy and J.Lo being credited for the booty phenomena.

These have been things that existed in the black community for decades. It's just when a white person does it is it deemed appropriate or worthy of mention.

That's why the OED thing is a bit annoying but at the same time it's understandable. Black people only make up 13% of the population so I don't think OED is ever going to put something in there from the black community unless white people start using it.

To be fair in regards to the booty phenomena, J.Lo has been on the front lines for years and years.
 

border

Member
See Iggy and J.Lo being credited for the booty phenomena.

Except when you actually read the article, you see that they also gave credit and mentions to Destiny's Child, Beyonce, Nicki Minaj, and Rhiana. Iggy Azalea is not credited with starting or creating anything at all. She is not mentioned beyond the fact that she is in a new Jennifer Lopez video.

All they actually said is a dreadfully non-commital statement: "Perhaps we have Jennifer Lopez to thank (or blame?) for sparking the booty movement," which I don't think is that horribly offensive. I hate that these clickbait articles seem to rely on pretty huge distortions, and rely that people will not bother reading the actual source material.

There's also the frustrating trend of "When a hispanic person does something I don't like, I'm just going to consider them white so it fits my personal black vs white narrative."
 

VoxPop

Member
The stuff like the cops harassing blacks and a few others are racist but a majority of the other stuff just seem like fillers to have something to bitch about.
 

Slayven

Member
Here is why people are mad about culture appropriation, it's not because white people are doing shit black people have been doing for years. It's the fact that when white people do it, it suddenly becomes acceptable and hell even rewarded.
 

VoxPop

Member
Here is why people are mad about culture appropriation, it's not because white people are doing shit black people have been doing for years. It's the fact that when white people do it, it suddenly becomes acceptable and hell even rewarded.

White = Apple

Black = Android
 
Except when you actually read the article, you see that they also gave credit and mentions to Destiny's Child, Beyonce, Nicki Minaj, and Rhiana. Iggy Azalea is not credited with starting or creating anything at all. She is not mentioned beyond the fact that she is in a new Jennifer Lopez video.

All they actually said is a dreadfully non-commital statement: "Perhaps we have Jennifer Lopez to thank (or blame?) for sparking the booty movement," which I don't think is that horribly offensive. I hate that these clickbait articles seem to rely on pretty huge distortions, and rely that people will not bother reading the actual source material.

There's also the frustrating trend of "When a hispanic person does something I don't like, I'm just going to consider them white so it fits my personal black vs white narrative."

I don't consider J.Lo to be white and I never have. Shes a person of color and I've always (and I'm sure most black people) have considered her a part of the community rather than not.
 
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