Greenpanda
Banned
MIMIC said:
Should they?
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24? Stereotyping Muslims?
- Thread starter kumanoki
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Should they?
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
1. They had a bit of that in Series 2 anyway (I thought series 2 was a bit of a 911 cash in anways).
2. It's Fox.
2. It's Fox.
Kabuki Waq
Member
This would not even be a factor if the majority of American Public were not simple minded sheep. But In jesus Land you know some ppl are going to start looking at their muslim American neighbours suspiciously. Just cause of what they saw on 24.
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
What's the BFD? It only goes on for a day.
RonaldoSan
Member
I think that muslims have been portraited negative in entertainment since 9/11. Nobody is really minding it. Though I don't find the tv series "24" racist at all. It's just good fiction. They have alot of different race/ethnic/whatever characters. This season has just begun, we don't know who the mastermind is yet. It's probably a white guy or something. Who knows.
The muslim community is growing in many western countries. I'm sure all the hatred will stop once they have a better public voice/presentation.
The muslim community is growing in many western countries. I'm sure all the hatred will stop once they have a better public voice/presentation.
Wario64 said:
Well, the first two hours were the best watched episodes of the series!
Hour three and two also did very well.
Woah! Next episode looks cool!
http://isitonyet.com/episode5.wmv
McLesterolBeast
Member
As a gesture to the muslim community, they should have put in a hokey token good muslim character who tried to save the day, but tragically was shot down and/or detained by some law enforecement official who mistook him for one of dem derr' evil moslems.
Burger said:
Best post in the thread. Plus the show seems to be pushing more that these are Turkish Muslims... a distinction that seems to have been missed for some reason....
I mean WTF... this shit has happened... we have seen clips over the internet of group assassinating folks they've kidnapped....
I have a problem with the portrayal of Black Women on this show... they are entirely too aggressive.
Teknopathetic
Member
Thank Omarosa!
Teknopathetic
Member
Jeez, someone's being an Anal Andy.
MetatronM said:
Are well-off American white girls racially profiled/targeted? How many incidents of police brutality occured against well-off white girls? How many well-off white girls are being held in Guantanamo Bay? How many well-off white girls come from a country that America is at "war" with? How many well-off white girls are having their entire way of life being constantly questioned and challenged? If you really don't see the difference then that just speaks volumes as to how unaware and ignorant you are of social issues.
And this just cracks me up...
Really? Name a single FAMILY other than the ALLEGED 911 Hijackers. Oh, that's right, I used the word ALLEGED because nobody has found any proof and none has been reported on (except for those extremely convenient passport photos that survived the crash). It's so funny, me even SUGGESTING that those 19 guys weren't the hijackers is tantamount to absolute lunacy and yet...
7 of 19 Suspected Hijackers STILL ALIVE
duh duh... how do you explain that one?
You guys have so internalized the propaganda you don't even question the most basic of errors and mistakes.
Shinobi said:
Exactly, that's EXACTLY the point. This is EXACTLY why the muslim community is raising concerns about this show, since it's so damn popular. Some of you people seem to have a very hard time understanding the concept of vulnerable minorities, especially when they're easily identifiable. The white person is your brother/sister, father/mother, daughter/son, uncle/aunt etc. The brown person is that new neighbour you never really talked to that keeps to themselves.
Obviously Muslims must take some responsibility for not promoting themselves and their religion better, but if they did I truly wonder how the Christian Right would have reacted then. It's really a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of situation. But that's another topic for another day.
rastex said:
Dude. No offense, but you are a fucking LUNATIC.
Those "alleged" hijackers are not alleged, they're the hijackers. PERIOD. Deal with it. The majority of them came Saudi Arabia, they were muslim, and they killed near 3000 people that day.
Does that make all muslims or even the majority of muslims bad? Does that make Saudi Arabians evil?
No. But this is the facts, and you should do well to agree it. What you just suggested is endlessly more offensive than any politically incorrect garbage that you think is swaying from 24.
Keep your tin foil hat at home, you get no respect with that crap. DONALD RUMSFELD SAID PLANE GOT SHOT DOWN, OH NOS!11 MUST NOT BE TERRORISM
Escape Goat
Member
So Muslims can't be terrorists?
they already showed muslim terrorists in season 2 though. and with 24 there usually are multiple threads and story arcs, so who knows where this season will go. but yeah this turkish family is definitely being shown as evil, but obviously the son will break out and do something eventually.
rastex said:
*clap clap* Yeah you really proved you--
--oh, except I did go the link. First, I checked out what the websites AGENDA was, which is what you should typically do before linking whack job conspiracy theory websites claiming that common knowledge is now false. Besides the fact the website itself is completely insane and wrong in almost every conceivable way, it does its own job and answers the "ifs" even if you don't want to.
BBC said:
BBC
The answer is in the pudding. Let's consider for a moment that the VAST majority of these articles were created during a time of confusion when details were still being sorted out and we didn't have near as much evidence as we do now. Let's put that aside. If this train of thought is to be believed, then his own conspiracy theory path is destroyed with this reasoning. To wit: In the world of his absurd logic, it's conceivable that the reason why we're finding hijackers "alive" is because the REAL hijackers simply used false names. This neither changes the fact that they were from Saudi Arabia nor does it change the fact that they were muslim. But that, too, is besides the point.
Let's also put aside that ridiculous links from CAIRO and SAUDI GAZETTE, as if those would ever be considered legitimate sources for unbiased news.
Naturally, all this ignores the fact that the "head" of the hijackers was Mohamed Atta, on whom we have EXTENSIVE information about and extensive information on his aquaintances.
Sun-Sentinel said:
Knowing he was the head, then not much changes in the end. If you're trying to prove that "these" ninteen terrorists are somehow wrongly accused, and that there's a set of ninteen people who really DID kill it... then it doesn't change anything, because Mohamed Atta was the head, he was commaned by Osama Bin Laden... and that's the end of it. It was an attack by Islamic-Extremists, even if - in the world of lolli-pops and gum chewing and hilariously misguided tin foil hat conspiracy theorists - it wasn't these "same" nineteen islamic terrorists that were accused.
But it was them, and all this is garbage to even bother discussion, because you're batshit insane.
Fresh Prince
Banned
No it's a zombie inducing poison?!
I find this to be a lot like "harmless" propaganda present in Nazi Germany before the implementation of the "Final Solution". Y'know, it wasn't too apparent, but it used extreme examples to show a particular religion in a bad light.
I know, it's a strong way to put it, but how else can you describe it? Oh and before you comment on this comparison, please look up examples of the propaganda in your textbooks, you'll find that it started out as suggestive, rather than explicit.
And I'm not implying that FOX is doing this on purpose for any other motive besides entertainment.
Of course, the purpose is to entertain, but at what cost?
Since 9/11, Muslims have been attacked, had their homes vandalized, mosques and schools firebombed and have been attacked verbally as well. Why? Because some dumbasses can't tell the difference between a Muslim, and a terrorist.
In 24, the issue of having terrorists who are Muslim isn't the issue. Read related articles and you'll know this.
The issue is having a seemingly everyday all-American Muslim family planning terrorist activities. Obviously this is extremely far-fetched, and doesn't help the image of ordinary American Muslims.
Jews faced hate in Nazi Germany, and it increased as the media portrayed them in a worse and worse manner. Sure, there was some element of truth to it, Jews were involved with banks and such, but the portrayal became more and more extreme and far-fetched and people at it up.
In the same way, sure, Muslims committed terrorist attacks on American soil, but these were well-planned coordinated attacks that took years of planning that involved individuals that fit a very specific age demographic, and were all males.
But hey, watch out, because now ANY muslim is a terrorist! They could be your next door neighbor, or even your co-worker!
Actually Tom Clancy had a lot to do with that change, not the PC Police as you put it. There was good reasoning behind it...the fact that he realizes that many people watching movies are idiots.
The issue is not with political incorrectness...more like having something completely far-fetched passed off as believable. I don't see what's wrong with the Public Announcements anyways, FOX sees that there is an issue on their part (as I said, the writers aren't haters doing this on purpose) and they are addressing it in an appropriate manner. I think it's perfectly fair for minority groups to ask for this.
I know, it's a strong way to put it, but how else can you describe it? Oh and before you comment on this comparison, please look up examples of the propaganda in your textbooks, you'll find that it started out as suggestive, rather than explicit.
And I'm not implying that FOX is doing this on purpose for any other motive besides entertainment.
Of course, the purpose is to entertain, but at what cost?
Since 9/11, Muslims have been attacked, had their homes vandalized, mosques and schools firebombed and have been attacked verbally as well. Why? Because some dumbasses can't tell the difference between a Muslim, and a terrorist.
In 24, the issue of having terrorists who are Muslim isn't the issue. Read related articles and you'll know this.
The issue is having a seemingly everyday all-American Muslim family planning terrorist activities. Obviously this is extremely far-fetched, and doesn't help the image of ordinary American Muslims.
Jews faced hate in Nazi Germany, and it increased as the media portrayed them in a worse and worse manner. Sure, there was some element of truth to it, Jews were involved with banks and such, but the portrayal became more and more extreme and far-fetched and people at it up.
In the same way, sure, Muslims committed terrorist attacks on American soil, but these were well-planned coordinated attacks that took years of planning that involved individuals that fit a very specific age demographic, and were all males.
But hey, watch out, because now ANY muslim is a terrorist! They could be your next door neighbor, or even your co-worker!
Actually Tom Clancy had a lot to do with that change, not the PC Police as you put it. There was good reasoning behind it...the fact that he realizes that many people watching movies are idiots.
The issue is not with political incorrectness...more like having something completely far-fetched passed off as believable. I don't see what's wrong with the Public Announcements anyways, FOX sees that there is an issue on their part (as I said, the writers aren't haters doing this on purpose) and they are addressing it in an appropriate manner. I think it's perfectly fair for minority groups to ask for this.
Just a warning, there's spoiler-ish material for this season of 24 in this post, towards the bottom.
This isn't an "issue" as it represents a political and social reality. The terrorists who bombed the World Trade Center in the early 1990s were, for all intents and purposes, "sleepers" who were posing as innocuous immigrants; this isn't the first time an "All-American family" has been revealed to be terrorists. In fact, just six years ago, they were white as bread in "Arlington Road."
This isn't propaganda, not even in the most liberal definition of the word. For it to fit that mold, the material being shown would have to be completely one-sided, politically motivated, and to someone's benefit. The Muslim family on 24 doesn't represent any of that, especially given what's transpired in the past few weeks. They're a sleeper cell, a Muslim one. Pretending they don't exist outside the world of Jack Bauer just to be politically correct does no one any favors. Better to have the topic out in the open to be discussed.
SOME RANDOM BITS OF 24 LIE BELOW, IF YOU WANT TO REMAIN COMPLETELY UNTAINTED, DON'T READ:
So take a step back before you compare this to Nazi Germany. How Hitler portrayed the Jews and reality were two distinct ends of the spectrum. Likewise, 24 isn't saying "Every Muslim is a terrorist, honest injun!" There's no secret mosque where they're hanging out, there's no secret handshake that gets them into their country's embassy. They're an elaborate front for a terrorist group. If anything, the producers have gone out of their way to show that their mission is specific, and in the past have gone out of their way to portray Muslim characters as heroes, or innocents caught up in the hysteria.
Fight for Freeform said:
This isn't an "issue" as it represents a political and social reality. The terrorists who bombed the World Trade Center in the early 1990s were, for all intents and purposes, "sleepers" who were posing as innocuous immigrants; this isn't the first time an "All-American family" has been revealed to be terrorists. In fact, just six years ago, they were white as bread in "Arlington Road."
This isn't propaganda, not even in the most liberal definition of the word. For it to fit that mold, the material being shown would have to be completely one-sided, politically motivated, and to someone's benefit. The Muslim family on 24 doesn't represent any of that, especially given what's transpired in the past few weeks. They're a sleeper cell, a Muslim one. Pretending they don't exist outside the world of Jack Bauer just to be politically correct does no one any favors. Better to have the topic out in the open to be discussed.
SOME RANDOM BITS OF 24 LIE BELOW, IF YOU WANT TO REMAIN COMPLETELY UNTAINTED, DON'T READ:
So take a step back before you compare this to Nazi Germany. How Hitler portrayed the Jews and reality were two distinct ends of the spectrum. Likewise, 24 isn't saying "Every Muslim is a terrorist, honest injun!" There's no secret mosque where they're hanging out, there's no secret handshake that gets them into their country's embassy. They're an elaborate front for a terrorist group. If anything, the producers have gone out of their way to show that their mission is specific, and in the past have gone out of their way to portray Muslim characters as heroes, or innocents caught up in the hysteria.
Schmo Florez
Member
cubanb said:
Best. President. Ever.
I was in a mosque earlier today. I'm not religious at all, let alone muslim, but it was beautiful. The architecture and interior design was amazing, and the hall of worship (whatever they call it) humbled me so quickly. There was a strange, unearthly feeling to it. I was immediately respectful.
No, I don't think there were spirits or anything, but nonetheless...
No, I don't think there were spirits or anything, but nonetheless...
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
The muslims need to calm down. 24 makes me hate black women equally as much.
Yeah, definitely. I'd actually like to go back. Maybe bring my textbooks and study.nitewulf said:
Y'know, I've actually got an incredible amount to share in this thread, but it's almost so much that I can't be bothered to say any one thing.
This weekend we disputed American intervention (ie, Iraq), discussed democracy in the middle east, had a video conference with the Iraq Ambassador to the UN (which was awesome), had a Canadian that lived in post-Saddam Iraq as an advisor speak to us, had an Algerian (muslim) talk to us about racial acceptance (he attacked a neo-Nazi that was about to shoot Jacques Chirac), had a random man ask him "Why does the world hate muslims?" which created a huge stir (in a room of ~100 people), and most of this time was coincidentally spent with friends of mine that were all born or raised in the middle east (two from Pakistan and one from Iran).
I see your point...but do you really think that it compares to an entire family, sitting down at breakfast and casually plotting terrorist activities? Secondly, when looking at Muslims who have committed terrorist attacks in the US, most of them were loners and while they did live for a certain period of time, weren't sent to the US with thier whole families.
My point is, it's a very unrealistic scenario, one that can damage the perception of Muslims. You see Muslim terrorists all the time if you watched a show like JAG. These people were easy to identify for the most part.
I agree...perhaps propaganda is not the right word, but I can use the word stereotype, or generalization instead.
Pretending that it COULD exist is the problem here. Again, there are many shows with Muslim sleeper cells...I think even Law and Order had one. It doesn't get as much attention as this because in a case like Law and Order, the scenario is quite realistic.
You can't deny a scenario that's realistic. If a Muslim complained about the character in that show, it's easy to point out that there were real life cases of similar incidents.
You can't claim the same for '24' though.
Not just Hitler, but the media in general. Even political cartoons ridiculed Jews, and at first it was subtle, then getting stronger and more explicit.
I haven't seen every episode of this season, but I'd like to see clips where there are Muslim protagonists.
In the past yes, and it would be interesting to do so in this season as well, wouldn't you think?
As I said, it's not like the writers are haters, and as I said before, FOX is addressing the issue with PAs. But it does remind me of how Nazi propaganda got more extreme and extreme, with no line being drawn. What concerns me is that it is reaching into pop culture (you can't deny how successful of a show '24' is, in that regard), and the stereotypes and generalizations will get worse.
Over time, I'm sure we all will get used to it, just like how we are used to how Blacks are portrayed in mass media, though the benefit is that we are starting to see Black protagonists and such...
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