• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

2D Gamplay + 3D Graphics

Z

Zaptruder

Banned
So why aren't there more games like this? It seems like a successful formula, coupling popular and apparently somewhat cheaper to produce 3D graphics with a tight 2D level design...

Particularly for popular franchises like Castlevania, which doesn't seem to have migrated to the full 3D so well.
Even something like SF4 could benefit from the style (thought many might disagree; I could see it done right and better than a pure 2D game tho).

Frustratingly, Klonoa from the same company is an excellent if rare example of the 2D/3D fusion.

So... are there any other good examples of the style or any insight that can provided as to why this isn't a more popular style in games... short of the appeal to casual gamers money that will probably be suggested many times throughout the thread.
 
New Mario Bros. DS is gonna ROCKKKK

I'm sayig it again..


if this thing comes out before April 2006 I'm buying one copy for GAF and another for one of my friends.
 
Seriously under used style.. god knows why more people dont do it. The mini platform games that were in ratchet and clank were amazing looking!

There are also plenty of shooters out there that use this to great effect.
 
I'd like to know aswell why this solution isn't used more frequently... I'd like to see '2.5D' used more frequently.

Ikaruga and Gradius V shows that it works well for shooters (as well as some other, like Nanostray from a technical point of view). In fact, 3D offers backgrounds with the depth that everybody were trying to simulate in 2D with parallax scrollings and others tricks.

As for platformers, there are also several 'proof of concept'. Aside from Klonoa, Yoshi's story and the second Goemon on N64 worked very well (I know that Yoshi is far too easy and short, except if you aim for a perfect game with 180 melons, but that has nothing to do with the technique).
 
Koren said:
I'd like to know aswell why this solution isn't used more frequently... I'd like to see '2.5D' used more frequently.
Click to expand...

I think it could be an expense issue. Alot of 2D developer reuse sprites over and over and if they went 2.5D they'd need to create or new engine which would be expensive if they can't get good sales out of that game. I'd like to see it happen more though. It's the way to keep the 2D gameplay genre alive.
 
I remember being sorely disappointed by Street Fighter EX Plus, the SF 2.5 venture. And I'd be a bit cheesed if that happened with any SF4. Capcom need to put it back at the top of the 2D pile, so personally I'd like to see new, more detailed, Guilty-Gear belittling 2D sprites for that.

Although I do think 2.5 works well for scrolling platformers/shooters. I agree with the Castlevania idea, and I'd like to see it tried with Ghouls'n'Ghosts too.

But generally speaking, I think where you can use 2D, hand-drawn artwork, it's nice to do so. I still believe Alien Hominid is one of the best looking games this gen...
 
Nathan Barley said:
Although I do think 2.5 works well for scrolling platformers/shooters. I agree with the Castlevania idea, and I'd like to see it tried with Ghouls'n'Ghosts too.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see a 2.5D Metroid, also...

But generally speaking, I think where you can use 2D, hand-drawn artwork, it's nice to do so. I still believe Alien Hominid is one of the best looking games this gen...
Click to expand...
Maybe it's not exclusive... 2D "hand-drawn" is still mapped on 3D polygons on modern hardware, and you can benefit from 3D (complex lighting, multiple layers for depth, and so on). Yoshi is mostly hand-made graphics, mixed with 3D effects, and beautiful.

Or Paper Mario clones :)
 
I've been talking about this for years. In fact, I want the SF franchise to move to 3D w/ its gameplay intact. Crazy lighting and shit...

I wish Capcom would re-release all their old arcade games that way.
 
Street Fighter EX was an extremely poor implementation of the style...

but imagine something built for the PS3, with DOA4 quality character models, but celshaded... but then keyframed per individual frame for frame (rather than path) based animation (in order to preserve the 2D gameplay).

Say... models like the ones here

http://mitumasa.com/

instead of the fugly ass blocky models you see in SFEX.

Then imagine that been animated via hand keyed animation... bounding boxes for hit detection as per 2D gameplay...

then during replays, you'd get camera panning, slow down, matrix style effects if you please (or basic gameplay view for study if you want).

I think it would REJUVENATE the franchise in terms of sales potential.
 
donny2112 said:
The Adventure Mode in Super Smash Bros: Melee was great 2-D gameplay with 3-D characters. :)
Click to expand...
My opinion, of course, but no, it isn't great 2D gameplay. The fighting is good, but having to platform/explore with those vaguely-defined controls and "loose" jumping for a full game would be a pain in the ass.
 
Koren said:
Maybe it's not exclusive... 2D "hand-drawn" is still mapped on 3D polygons on modern hardware, and you can benefit from 3D (complex lighting, multiple layers for depth, and so on). Yoshi is mostly hand-made graphics, mixed with 3D effects, and beautiful.

Or Paper Mario clones :)
Click to expand...
Strider 2, MCV2, CVS2 and the various DC/PS2 KOF ports are good examples too. Sprite based characters on 3D backgrounds work well imo.
 
Mihail said:
My opinion, of course, but no, it isn't great 2D gameplay. The fighting is good, but having to platform/explore with those vaguely-defined controls and "loose" jumping for a full game would be a pain in the ass.
Click to expand...

Vaguely-define controls?

Loose jumping?



Are we playing the same game?
 
Zaptruder said:
So why aren't there more games like this? It seems like a successful formula, coupling popular and apparently somewhat cheaper to produce 3D graphics with a tight 2D level design...

Particularly for popular franchises like Castlevania, which doesn't seem to have migrated to the full 3D so well.
Even something like SF4 could benefit from the style (thought many might disagree; I could see it done right and better than a pure 2D game tho).

Frustratingly, Klonoa from the same company is an excellent if rare example of the 2D/3D fusion.

So... are there any other good examples of the style or any insight that can provided as to why this isn't a more popular style in games... short of the appeal to casual gamers money that will probably be suggested many times throughout the thread.
Click to expand...


Probably because most companies have hard enough time selling 3d games, let alone 2d style games.
 
Strider 2, MCV2, CVS2 and the various DC/PS2 KOF ports are good examples too. Sprite based characters on 3D backgrounds work well imo.
Click to expand...

As good as some of those games were, they really needed higher res sprites to look good IMO.

Gamasutra has an excellent article on this very topic btw.
 
DaCocoBrova said:
As good as some of those games were, they really needed higher res sprites to look good IMO.

Gamasutra has an excellent article on this very topic btw.
Click to expand...
Well, Strider 2 was a PSone game... it looked fanatstic considering the platform. I agree generally, but low res sprites would work fine the handhelds these days.
 
I was thinking more DC onward... Wasn't Strider 2 the arcade as well?
 
I would really like to see a remake of Out of this World (or a sequel) using 2d gameplay with 3d graphics. 2d gameplay can force you into cool and interesting puzzles... like in OotW.
 
2.5D works great when a majority of the graphics are sprite based, and the effect is subtle... I think DoS totally nailed it, I absolutely loved the town and castle scenery. The graphics were pretty basic 3d like something from the early PSX era, but that added to the effect because it fit in with the sprite backgrounds very well.
 
argon said:
2.5D works great when a majority of the graphics are sprite based, and the effect is subtle... I think DoS totally nailed it, I absolutely loved the town and castle scenery. The graphics were pretty basic 3d like something from the early PSX era, but that added to the effect because it fit in with the sprite backgrounds very well.
Click to expand...

Dawn of Sorrow is considered a 2D game imo. It's not when there's a 3D element in a 2D that it becomes a 2.5D game...

If your camera does not change it's point of view during the game while you play or that the makority of the background isn't 3D, it's a 2D game imo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

2D Mario games are bland as hell and 2D Donkey Kong games are far superior, 3D Mario games are where it's at
2
82
823
cireza replied
Bruisers 2D Boxing
10
342
Gamer_By_Proxy replied
50 Minutes Of Valor Mortis Gamplay
45
2K
SomeNorseGuy replied
Why did only 2D games use the RAM expansion of the Sega Saturn? Did it make no sense for 3D games?
2 3
133
2K
iidesuyo replied
Best games that combine 2D and 3D ?
2
54
3K
Hypereides replied
Top Bottom