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[Bregor]

I'm not trying to "justify" shit. If you look at it simply, they stole. In turn, they were killed. If they didn't steal, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.
Just because death wasn't justified (and I don't believe it was) doesn't mean shit about the fact that the theft is what set them off.
Even if the irrational anger is what killed them, the irrational anger was caused by their action, there's no other way about it.
I'm not saying the Death Penalty as a deterrent would work for everybody, obviously its a case by case situation. But there's no reason our society needs these people anymore.

Edit: Don't you see anything wrong with focusing on the "irrational anger" over the fact that there was a crime committed to set it off? Obviously irrational anger is a problem and I'm not going to deny that, but the anger wasn't set off by the drop of a hat.

The theft did not cause these murders. If the murderers were willing to kill over such a trivial matter, then they would have killed over virtually anything. It is the lack of respect for human life and violent tendencies of the murderers that caused the death of these people. The response is so out of proportion to the trigger that this should be completely clear.

 

[Brannon]

but six deaths (AND THE DOG)

Speaking of which...

 

[radioheadrule83]

The fact that they stole from these people can be no lesson or justification for their brutal murders. I mean from what we're reading here - SIX people were beaten to death with baseball bats. Can you imagine the kind of struggle that ensued? Six people don't just go willingly under a baseball bat and die humanely. There would have been a huge struggle, and a lot of suffering before the end for many of them. The police are even saying in that article its the worst mess they've seen.. that speaks volumes of the sickness we're dealing with here. They even killed the DOG.

In summary: Two wrongs do not make a right. And YES, they deserve to die. In fact, such deviant, inhumane behaviour deserves punishment WORSE than the relatively forgiving death penalty.

Just my opinion on it.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

Too much clepto sympathy in this thread.

*reads article*

Nevermind.

 

[Redbeard]

It doesn't say anything about a dog.

 

[RevenantKioku]

The theft did not cause these murders. If the murderers were willing to kill over such a trivial matter, then they would have killed over virtually anything. It is the lack of respect for human life and violent tendencies of the murderers that caused the death of these people. The response is so out of proportion to the trigger that this should be completely clear.

I'm not denying that the response is out of proportion.
If they were willing to kill over a trivial matter, then yes they probably would have killed over anything.
The thing is this "trivial matter" is something that shouldn't have happened in the first place.
So yes, the theft caused the murders. It doesn't matter if "anything could have caused it". That's what caused it.

Kaching: I'm still not buying what you're selling. Looking at someone the wrong way and theft are still are quite different. Once again, I'm not saying it was justified in any sense of the word. I just don't pity anyone in this situation, unless they were not involved in the theft.
Furthermore: If you look at someone the wrong way, you don't know they're going to have any reason to have anger against you. If you steal something, you've got to be quite the dumbass to think if they find out you stole from them that they won't be angry.
How they react with that anger although, is an entirely different story.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

Did Victorino get his savegames back?

 

[Ranger X]

LMAO

 

[Gattsu25]

Did Victorino get his savegames back?

This thread is wrong

 

[Bregor]

I'm not denying that the response is out of proportion.
If they were willing to kill over a trivial matter, then yes they probably would have killed over anything.
The thing is this "trivial matter" is something that shouldn't have happened in the first place.
So yes, the theft caused the murders. It doesn't matter if "anything could have caused it". That's what caused it.

Kaching: I'm still not buying what you're selling. Looking at someone the wrong way and theft are still are quite different. Once again, I'm not saying it was justified in any sense of the word. I just don't pity anyone in this situation, unless they were not involved in the theft.

No the theft did not cause the murders. The murderers were not inexorably forced by fate to go in and brutally kill these people. They willingly chose to commit this massacre. No rational person would believe that murder was justified under these circumstances. Therefore the killings were a consequence of the murder's outlook on life, not anything the victims had done.

 

[Cubsfan23]

In a twisted way, this will increase xbox sales.

 

[vesuvious]

Hey, Revenant, I wouldn't go on assuming the Xbox was stolen. For all we know the ring leader could have told these 3 guys that confessed to the murders that his Xbox was stolen by one of those people that got killed when it may never have happened. Also, you seem cold hearted to the fact that 6...yes 6 people are dead over this and yet you say you don't "pity" them. I mean wtf. 6 PEOPLE ARE DEAD! Lives have been taken and no matter what you say they didn't deseve this nor should they have expected this. BTW, don't you seem skeptical of the murderers saying that the killings were because of a stolen XBox? It doesn't take 6 people to steal an XBox. Also, to some of you guys still making light of this situation. Please STFU and respect some human lives that have been lost here. If anything, this should make some of you angry. This is no laughing matter for crying out loud!

 

[Slo]

I'm very disappointed by many people in this thread.

 

[Chittagong]

Those six guys are now Xdudes.

 

[Makura]

This shocking and disturbing. I can't imagine what those six people went through - and two were women! Ugh.

I agree that the death penalty is justified in this case if this was planned and they were sober and sane at the time.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Good lord. The one who was battered beyond recognition was the 2nd woman. That's fucking disgusting. And all of you making light of the situation are pieces of shit.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

Only God can judge me.

 

[BeOnEdge]

tell me they were not nbots. :O

* because half the time I want to kill BOE.

why all the hate? i'm a fine and upstanding young man. i dont need no strife. i dont have a plobrem with nbots, just the state of nintendo.

 

[AlphaSnake]

why all the hate? i'm a fine and upstanding young man. i dont need no strife. i dont have a plobrem with nbots, just the state of nintendo.

I got your back, holmes.

 

[geogaddi]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040808/ap_on_re_us/bodies_found&cid=519&ncid=716


Honestly, everything that comes out of Florida, news-wise, is always bizzarre.
Its always something crazy, weird or wild.

Anyone notice this pattern of Florida happenings?

 

[BeOnEdge]

thanks BRAO!!!!

would you like some...

 

[SolidSnakex]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040808/ap_on_re_us/bodies_found&cid=519&ncid=716


Honestly, everything that comes out of Florida, news-wise, is always bizzarre.
Its always something crazy, weird or wild.

Anyone notice this pattern of Florida happenings?

I just read one of the stories at the link you posted...

" The killing spree in the working-class, bedroom community of more than 70,000 people was the deadliest in Florida since 1990, when a man whose car was repossessed shot eight people to death at a Jacksonville loan office before turning the gun on himself."

Wow...

 

[AlphaSnake]

thanks BRAO!!!!

would you like some...

Got any

for that?

 

[Joe]

free publicity for microsoft.

this is on the frontpage of cnn.com, yahoo.com, foxnews.com, bbc.co.uk, acbnews.com, EVERYWHERE.

 

[vesuvious]

Victorino complained that his belongings were removed from the grandparents' house while he was in jail following a July 29 arrest for battery, Johnson said. He said Victorino found his things boxed up at the victims' house and took them after the killings.


See Revenant there is more to the story. If you go to the yahoo link posted above it described this thug Victorino as a possible "squatter" who took over the victims home as a party house. When the victim(s) discovered 6 people using the home as a party house they called the police and kicked them out. Then subsequently someone at the residence got their tires slashed...then they got death threats...then Victorino followed through with his threats. Police had been called to this home 6 times 10 days before the killings. Victorino obviously got angry that his belongings were still in the house, but what probably angered him more was the fact that he didn't have a party house any more. Still no excuse as far as I am concerned. This was a senseless, brutal act and a tragic waste of life on the murderers and the victims part. The human race loses on this one..no matter how you look at it.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Can't say I didn't warn you people.

 

[MassiveAttack]

The XBOX wasn't even stolen if you read the article carefully. It was simply packed up in a box in the same house where the murders were committed.

There is absolutely nothing in the universe that could mitigate any of the circumstances but you can bet that if the families of the perpetrators can afford attorneys, they will do their damndest to come up with "plausible motives" or "psychological influences" that could explain their behaviors.

The single largest moral and ethical conundrum facing the world is the loss of any notion of personal or individual responsibility. No one seems responsible for anything, no matter how heinous or unconscionable the crime. It is a modern phenomenon that is only destined to become worse.

 

[Chopin Trusty Balls]

*waits for people to start killing each other over a bottle of Vodka*

 

[Deg]

Told you guys to wait for more details as it was only being claimed by the guy.

6 lives taken for what?

 

[Deg]

So yes, the theft caused the murders. It doesn't matter if "anything could have caused it". That's what caused it.

Kaching: I'm still not buying what you're selling. Looking at someone the wrong way and theft are still are quite different. Once again, I'm not saying it was justified in any sense of the word. I just don't pity anyone in this situation, unless they were not involved in the theft.
Furthermore: If you look at someone the wrong way, you don't know they're going to have any reason to have anger against you. If you steal something, you've got to be quite the dumbass to think if they find out you stole from them that they won't be angry.
How they react with that anger although, is an entirely different story.

and i am sure there are people here who would also think that its ok to rape a girl if she made them attracted to her so its her fault she got raped anyway [insert rolleyes]

 

[mj1108]

Knowing the US criminal justice system, those guys should be out on parole when XBox 2 comes out, so they can kill again.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

Good lord. The one who was battered beyond recognition was the 2nd woman. That's fucking disgusting. And all of you making light of the situation are pieces of shit.

I agree, have some respect for the dead. Especially for those that died so brutally & without cause.

 

[TekunoRobby]

This is pretty horrible, really makes me sad. Everyone who were involved were worthless peices of human filth that don't deserve to be on my planet.

 

[DarienA]

I'd like to thank CNN for this headline Sheriff: Four charged in Xbox killings

<groan>

 

[Lil' Dice]

Do you think the same would've happened if they had stolen his GC?

 

[Gahiggidy]

Do you think the same would've happened if they had stolen his GC?

Bad people don't own GameCube.

 

[cvxfreak]

This is certainly interesting news.

Do you think the same would've happened if they had stolen his GC?

LITTLE KIDS DON'T KILL EACH OTHER!!

 

[AniHawk]

In a twisted way, this will increase xbox sales.

If it gets enough parents pissed off about it/makes enough news channels.

 

[FightyF]

Do you think the same would've happened if they had stolen his GC?

He would have pulled out a fairy wand and casted some "hurt spells" on the other guys. Thereafter he would bake a few muffins and eat them at a tea party with his Barbie dolls.

 

[AniHawk]

This is certainly interesting news.



LITTLE KIDS DON'T KILL EACH OTHER!!

Except in Japan.

 

[cvxfreak]

Except in Japan.

And my house!!!

 

[RevenantKioku]

and i am sure there are people here who would also think that its ok to rape a girl if she made them attracted to her so its her fault she got raped anyway [insert rolleyes]

She didn't actively do anything other than being herself. And even if someone says that, it doesn't justify it.
I'm not trying to say these deaths were justified in any stretch of the imagination. A theft is very simple, but it will still piss someone off. They pissed the wrong people off.
From the story I saw I draw out:
Theft occurred. Thieves were beaten to death.
A theft was a direct action taken out on these people. It caused anger. Unfortunately, the anger levels got to high and they acted in a completely unforgivable way.
If this is not the true story, then my logic doesn't work and you can forget what I was saying.

 

[----]

The killings have nothing to do with an Xbox:

Joe Abshire, Belanger’s brother-in-law, said she described heading to the vacant house to go swimming one day and finding about six people living there. The squatters were kicked out, but deputies were called to the grandparents’ house six times in 10 days before the killings. The victims reported a tire-slashing at their home and a threat.

The squatters warned Belanger that “they were going to come back there and beat her with a baseball bat when she was sleeping,” Abshire, who is married to Erin’s sister Jennifer, told The Sun of Lowell, Mass., for Sunday editions.

This is about getting kicked out of the house they were squatting in. Why is Xbox theft being blamed for the murders? The girl who owned the house just boxed up the squatters things. There was no theft. If someone were to break into your home and leave some of their personal belongings there, would you consider it theft?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5623282/

 

[The Faceless Master]

wow, that is pretty fucked up... i feel bad for laughing at the jokes...


Edit:
okay, so i read that msn article and i'm really fucking upset...

the death penalty is too good for those sick fucks, they need to be tied up and beaten to death with the random contents of a garage toolbox, seriously!!!

 

[kaching]

Kaching: I'm still not buying what you're selling. Looking at someone the wrong way and theft are still are quite different. Once again, I'm not saying it was justified in any sense of the word. I just don't pity anyone in this situation, unless they were not involved in the theft.
Furthermore: If you look at someone the wrong way, you don't know they're going to have any reason to have anger against you. If you steal something, you've got to be quite the dumbass to think if they find out you stole from them that they won't be angry.
How they react with that anger although, is an entirely different story.

I'm not selling anything, Rev. Consider what I'm saying more like the warning sign posted at the top of a slippery slope. And I don't pity anyone in this situation either. The victims are dead and aren't suffering any longer. Pity is for the living.

But the reason why you and shpankey don't pity either group is different. You lack pity because you make little distinction between these two groups of people and their actions. Yes, there's a difference between looking at someone the wrong way and petty theft but there's an even larger difference between that and a premeditated, wanton massacre of life.

 

[Willco]

I'm not going to lie. Madden comes out tomorrow and if someone stole my Xbox right now, there would be some bloodshed.

 

[etiolate]

The people who did this are the type who just need an excuse. It has little to do with a game console being stolen, it could be anything. If you go off on a bloody rampage like this then something long existing is behind it. They are just fucked up people.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Kaching said a lot.

Look, all I'm saying is this is what you said:

People will kill for a lot "less". You don't have to do anything wrong and you get killed by someone. Is there a lesson to learn there too?

Which is bunk. I'd say there's definitely something to learn from the theft case, but your counter is just irrelevant.
As its been said there's a lot more to this as it was initially shown, so a lot of what I said isn't relevant.
But with the whole "Theft leads to murder of thieves." despite the brutality of the end, I still would have no pity for them. Play with fire, you risk getting burned. And you never know how bad.
Obviously the different information changes how I feel about this all. Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely heartless.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Wow. Thats fucking crazy.

Im usually against the death penalty. But goddamn...

 

[MASB]

Wow! This is a terrible, terrible situation. Hopefully the criminals will get whatever the full punishment of the law can bring.

*Time for me to go off on a tangent* One thing I wonder (and this in in no way blaming the victims), is why weren't they prepared for this? When you have worthless pieces of trash like those squatters threatening you, you had better take it very seriously. I mean, the police are of no help in a situation like this, realistically speaking. You can make complaints, but unless they can catch them during an act, they can't/won't do anything.

I think most members of the forum know or know of people like these killers (I don't necessarily mean know or know of actual killers, but people of a certain type). These are people you don't want to mess with. If they or you start something, you had better be prepared to finish it, because they will. In a situation like this, laws don't matter, it's kill or be killed. A deputy can't help you when nuts with baseball bats come crashing through your home. If it was a situation with 6 people in one house, I'd have had a gun and had someone (or two) stay up during the night, standing guard until the squatters were in jail for good or whatever. With threats like that and in a situation where you could have people up and guarding the house, that's what I'd do. Sure, having a gun doesn't guarantee you'll live, but at the least, you'd be able to kill a few of them when they broke into the house.

Laws and morality are fine, but if someone threatens you like that and they make any move to act on it, it's time for them to die, otherwise it'll be you. That's not vigilantism, that's self-preservation. In situations like this, you have to look after yourself, because cops and judges won't be. And the criminals (squatters in this case), certainly don't care about your well-being, so don't worry about theirs. When a criminal threatens/acts like that, all bets are off and you have to do what you can to make sure you're alive at the end of it.

Now I know some would object to all that, but if someone like that were after me, if it was at all within my power, if they acted, I'd kill them. I'd feel bad about having to kill someone, but they brought it upon themselves and it's better to have bad dreams than to be in a state where dental records are of no use. *end of tangent*