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[Phoenix]

Canada is in the Commonwealth...meaning that if the US tried to invade about 50% of the world would do the defending. Regardless, that shit ever happens economic ties to the US would be cut by the majority of the world and the US would crumble within a week. That and the US couldn't watch the war on TV this time because 30% of your electric power, or more, comes from here.

Besides, in most military training exercises Canadian forces wipe out american forces about 80% of the time.

The US doesn't even have enough military to police a country the size of Canada anyway.

The US military was designed and trained to take and hold whole swaths of the former Warsaw Pact. I doubt seriously if they would have problems taking and holding canadian soil. Militarily, Canada lacks the combat muscle to stop the US from taking it. Annexing a soverign country comes with some penalties that would prevent it from keeping it, but taking it is not impossible by any stretch.

Just to give you an idea of scale (not taking into account the obivious air superiority advantage and nearly non-existant Canadian Navy), the canadian regular army consists of 60K soldiers. The US Marine Corps alone has a combat force of 154K soldiers and more of an airforce by itself than the entire country. The US marine corps are larger than the standing army in most countries on the globe. Militarily, Canada would have to bend over and take it. Its the other circumstances of invasion that would make it a non-starter.

 

[Mike Works]

Horse shit. America is the most chartiable nation in the world.

And? From a third party perspective, which would you like better;

1) A war hungry yet very charitable country.

2) A peacefully natured, somewhat charitable country.

 

[Warm Machine]

Canada military is around 60,000 with outdated, broken down equipment mostly used for peacekeeping, we have advantage in number, military equipment, military forces(air,land and sea), MOAB's and other assorted weaponery that can if used without any restrictions take out canada like that. so pfft.

Which is exactly why the US Military wants to buy our LAV line of military equipment as it wipes the floor with anything in the same class that the US has.

 

[Socreges]

The USA could never overtake Canada. Several nations would respond in an instant. Likewise if Canada attacked the USA (haha). Collective Security.

Canada's military, army, and navy are vulnerable for a very good reason. There has simply been no reason to strengthen them. The only possible threat posed to Canada is terrorism. If, for instance, China were to invade Canada tomorrow, several nations were leap to our defense. With that in mind, it is difficult to justify spending so much money on such defense. Nonetheless, other countries have been pressuring them to hold more responsibility and with good cause. The Liberals already plan on increasing funding by quite a bit.

 

[SaitoH]

I find it both amusing and sad that this thread has turned into a pissing contest.

Who cares? 100% of teenagers are idiots.

The voice of reason.

^w^

 

[TekunoRobby]

And? From a third party perspective, which would you like better;

1) A war hungry yet very charitable country.

2) A peacefully natured, somewhat charitable country.

Obviously 1), since from a third party perspective I wouldn't want to bother a war hungry nation. Those two choices don't apply to America however so I fail to see the reaction to the original quote.

 

[Mike Works]

Obviously 1), since from a third party perspective I wouldn't want to bother a war hungry nation.

That doesn't answer my question at all. I said which would you like better.

 

[TekunoRobby]

That doesn't answer my question at all. I said which would you like better.

I thought "Obviously 1)" meant I had made my choice. I'll repeat it again, number 1.

 

[Mike Works]

I thought "Obviously 1)" meant I had made my choice.

Well considering your answer doesn't make one bit of sense, I figured you'd misread the question. Explain to me how this can be construed as a reasonable response;

"From a third party perspective, why would you prefer a war hungry yet very charitable country to a peaceful, somewhat charitable one?"

"Because, from a third party perspective, I wouldn't want to bother a war hungry nation."

I must be missing something here, because that does not answer my question in a sensible fashion.

 

[neptunes]

Who cares? 100% of teenagers are idiots.

cause they become adults.

weren't you ever a teenager?

 

[TekunoRobby]

I am angry at Robby.

I apologize for not appearing to make sense to you but converting this into such a futile and petty argument is certainly not the way to be civil about it. My first answer was clear and concise enough, again sorry if the following confused you for any reason.

 

[Xenon]

A peacefully natured, somewhat charitable country

And if you didn't have the 600 pound gorilla as a neighbor you wouldn't have the luxury of being so "peacefully natured"

 

[Mike Works]

I apologize for not appearing to make sense to you but converting this into such a futile and petty argument is certainly not the way to be civil about it. My first answer was clear and concise enough, again sorry if the following confused you for any reason.

Does this make sense to you though;

"From a third party perspective, why would you prefer a war hungry yet very charitable country to a peaceful, somewhat charitable one?"

"Because, from a third party perspective, I wouldn't want to bother a war hungry nation."

?

 

[Socreges]

And if you didn't have the 600 pound gorilla as a neighbor you wouldn't have the luxury of being so "peacefully natured"

Ooh, let's not start on geo-political fortune. Why do you think the US even ever became so powerful?

 

[TekunoRobby]

Does this make sense to you though;

I plead the fifth.

 

[Phoenix]

The USA could never overtake Canada. Several nations would respond in an instant. Likewise if Canada attacked the USA (haha). Collective Security.

Not quite, unless by instant you mean over the course of many many months. Even in the original Gulf War it took MUCH time to build the manpower, logistics, and planning to the point where Iraq could be pushed from Kuwait. Now imagine just trying to put together the forces necessary just to get past the US Navy because you'd have to get past it just to land forces in canada to liberate them.

 

[Socreges]

Not quite, unless by instant you mean over the course of many many months. Even in the original Gulf War it took MUCH time to build the manpower, logistics, and planning to the point where Iraq could be pushed from Kuwait. Now imagine just trying to put together the forces necessary just to get past the US Navy because you'd have to get past it just to land forces in canada to liberate them.

The operative word in my post was "respond".

Either way, you're arguing semantics over a situation that would never happen. The point is that, even if the USA wanted to take out Canada, it could not afford to. Mostly for economic reasons (being so reliant on trade).

 

[SKluck]

cause they become adults.

weren't you ever a teenager?

Yeah... and I was an idiot.

Most people are idiots throughout their lives, but in the teen years, it is magnified x 100.

 

[FightyF]

"The World judges the US by looking at it's actions, not Bush's rhetoric."

Horse shit. America is the most chartiable nation in the world.

I thank you for your response. It's a great example. Your perception is that you are a giving country, and you take pride in that. There's nothing wrong with that.

The problem lies in not taking a look to see what the reality of the situation is.

As I said, billions of dollars of aid reaches countries like Egypt and Israel. I don't have to go into what they've done to their people (in Israel's case, the Palestinian people). So ask yourself, how much of that money goes to governments that abuse human rights? And ask yourself, what kind of percentage do you get when you compare it to your GDP? If you want to have pride in statistics, make sure they mean something first.

Actually, we imposed sanctions on syria last month because of its support of terrorism.

That's right Ripclawe. Why did it take so long? Especially since the time that Bush implied that WMDs weren't the problem, and that the Baathist regime itself was the problem. This goes back to the point about foreign policy being hypocritical. Also consider that the Bush Administration still hasn't apologized for siding with Syria.

I said it laughs at Canada, not anyone else and Saudi Arabia says Al qaeda attacks are being made by the zionists, why would Israel even attempt to have diplomatic ties with that sort of attitude? As for the Sauds asking for ties, the only place that was talked about was the saudi peace proposal which is unworkable.

You said it laughs at Canada. Back it up.

Do it.

You claim, that Canada made a demand, and that the Saudi government laughed at the demand. Is this like all of your other claims? Ie. Made up? Oh and you claim that the Saudi government claims that Zionists are behind Al Qaeda's attacks? Where's the proof? Let's see this.

Oh, and now you claim that the SPP was unworkable...that's 3 lies you've just made up.

Absolutely wrong, diplomacy is an option in certain cases. Military power means when you talk people listen better.

So you are essentially agreeing with me. You only concede that there are cases where you don't want to flex your military muscle (ie. currently the US can't do anything to North Korea because their troops are spread too thin).

Israel is debatable, Egypt.. whats waiting in the wings without the aid unfortunately is worse than whats in power now.

Debatable? You've totally discredited yourself there.

what is less offensive or reasonable? " NO AID TO ISRAEL!" is that it? what is reasonable or less offensive to others may be unreasonable and offensive to America. there is really no middle ground on a lot of issues.

Nope, what it means is that you take a stand for human rights. No matter who commits the crime, you stand against the criminal. That is what I mean by less offensive, and that is what I mean by reasonable. If a white man and a black man commit the same crime. Treat them both equally. The second you treat one more harshly, simply because of their ethnicity, the more likely that this person will harbour a grudge against you.

Tell me, how would it be "unreasonable and offensive to America" if the Bush Administration implemented a policy fair to both sides?

This is gonna be entertaining...let's see you BS another response...

 

[videogamer]

And if you didn't have the 600 pound gorilla as a neighbor you wouldn't have the luxury of being so "peacefully natured"

So what exactly is this 600 lb gorilla and what is this other country?

 

[FightyF]

Ripclawe,

Before you respond to my post, respond to this first.

I really need to know this information! Otherwise, I'm wasting my time!

How old are you?

What kind of education do you have, if any?

What game consoles do you own?

I have some more, but I'll save them for later. I don't want to turn this into an interrogation.

 

[Shoryuken]

Everybody in this thread is focusing on the negative. Sure 40% of Canadian teens think the US is evil, but 60% think we're not.

 

[Fusebox]

40% of Canadian youth(14 to 18) says America is EVIL!

40% of Canadian youth(14 to 18) also rate Britney as highly talented and think clubbing seals while drunnk on whiskey is a sport!

 

[Tekky]

What's the matter with those Canadian kids. America _is_ evil. Only 40% recognize that? ;-)

 

[Che]

I thought "Obviously 1)" meant I had made my choice. I'll repeat it again, number 1.

Get serious boy.

 

[Che]

Ripclawe,

Before you respond to my post, respond to this first.

I really need to know this information! Otherwise, I'm wasting my time!

How old are you?

What kind of education do you have, if any?

What game consoles do you own?

I have some more, but I'll save them for later. I don't want to turn this into an interrogation.

I also wanted to ask the first two questions to Ripclawe and I second them.

 

[G4life98]

I just cant bring myself to care about what canadian teens think of my fucking country.

 

[dark10x]

I gotta know, when someone claims to "hate" America...what is it that they hate?

 

[Che]

I gotta know, when someone claims to "hate" America...what is it that they hate?

I guess the goverment and the part of its ignorant indefferent or even arrogant (like some people here) citizens.

 

[dark10x]

I guess the goverment and the part of its ignorant indefferent or even arrogant (like some people here) citizens.

Government != the country, though (at least IMO).

...and you'll find ignorant, indifferent, and arrogant pricks all over the world.

The country itself is really a pretty nice place to live. It isn't as if you have to be involved in the government or something...

I dunno, I can't get myself to hate ANY country as I feel there are plenty of good people everywhere and plenty of neat places to live/visit.

 

[Che]

...and you'll find ignorant, indifferent, and arrogant pricks all over the world.

Yes you will but, at least, not at the amount that when their countries invade other ones for profit, the 70% (or was it more?) of the population agrees with the invasion.

The country itself is really a pretty nice place to live. It isn't as if you have to be involved in the government or something...

Well to tell you the truth and it's entirely my opinion I would prefer to live in hell instead of a country with the "Patriot Act". I mean the way I see it you're turning into a eastern germany style oligarchy(cos let's not forget who governs your country -tip: it's not your goverment-).

 

[Guileless]

So, the argument is that America is "evil" for invading Iraq, right? And America is "evil" for supporting governments that have bad human rights records? And America was 'evil' for imposing sanctions on Iraq as an alternative to military action? What else is there to do? What would not be evil?

Was America "evil" for stopping the ethnic cleansing of Muslim Kosovars through military power? Was America "evil" for rolling back the rape of Kuwait with military power?

I understand Canadians being angry about pollution and wary of losing their own native culture, but I would like to hear the argument for the US government being evil. There are several people here who have expressed that thought, surely if they have a good argument they will explain their rationale.

Hey Che, where's that profit? 200 billion of our tax dollars and counting. Where's the profit? The Iraqis will benefit exponentially more from their oil profits than they ever did under Saddam.

 

[Che]

Was America "evil" for stopping the ethnic cleansing of Muslim Kosovars through military power? Was America "evil" for rolling back the rape of Kuwait with military power?

Hehe, both matters deserve a huge conversation. And my answer would be yes cos there's much hiding behind "stopping ethnic cleansing" and "rolling back the rape of Kuwait" which you obviously don't know.

Hey Che, where's that profit? 200 billion of our tax dollars and counting. Where's the profit? The Iraqis will benefit exponentially more from their oil profits than they ever did under Saddam.

Two words: Illegal contracts.


I would also want to point out that I don't hate anyone -it's not me- and I don't think america is evil cos like I said again words like this are for idiots who see everything black and white.

 

[Willco]

Canada sucks. Who cares what they think since they fuckin' ran Conan O'Brien out of the country and he was the best thing to happen to Canada since EVER.

 

[Guileless]

OK, Che, what's hiding behind the first Gulf War and the Kosovo operation? Surely you're not going to allege a capitalist/imperialist conspiracy in Kosovo are you? Please do, I'd love to hear it.

Also, what contracts are illegal, and why are they illegal? Please explain. And why are we spending 200 bill in tax dollars to rebuild Iraqi infrastructure? If Bush wanted to give money to contractors, couldn't he give them money to build things here? Wouldn't that be a little easier?

Support any of your thoughts with actual argument, please.

 

[Che]

OK, Che, what's hiding behind the first Gulf War and the Kosovo operation? Surely you're not going to allege a capitalist/imperialist conspiracy in Kosovo are you? Please do, I'd love to hear it.

Also, what contracts are illegal, and why are they illegal? Please explain. And why are we spending 200 bill in tax dollars to rebuild Iraqi infrastructure? If Bush wanted to give money to contractors, couldn't he give them money to build things here? Wouldn't that be a little easier?

Support any of your thoughts with actual argument, please.

The contracts are illegal cos the occupant has no right to make contracts with big corporations of his country, like they own the country or represent the enslaved nation. As for the other I told you it deserves a huge conversation which I don't really have the time or willingness to do.

 

[dark10x]

Yes you will but, at least, not at the amount that when their countries invade other ones for profit, the 70% (or was it more?) of the population agrees with the invasion.

Well to tell you the truth and it's entirely my opinion I would prefer to live in hell instead of a country with the "Patriot Act". I mean the way I see it you're turning into a eastern germany style oligarchy(cos let's not forget who governs your country -tip: it's not your goverment-).

Blah blah blah...

If you really think that pervades everyday life, you need to open your eyes...

It is people like you (and that 70%) that f*ck up the world for everyone else. You THINK you have all the answers, but you are just as bad as the people you critisize.

Did it ever occur to you that there is (gasp) MORE to life than government? You blame people who want NOTHING to do with any of this shit, don't you? Oh look, if that person comes from America they MUST be a sheep. You may as well include yourself in that 70% then, because you are NO BETTER than those fools.

I don't want to be associated with ANY OF THIS.

 

[Guileless]

And Saddam had the right to make contracts and keep the vast majority of the oil wealth to himself and the people who kept everyone else in line? You're arguing that because Saddam was born in Iraq, he can seize power and plunder the nation's resources at the expense of his people, keep them in line with state terrorism, and use their lives to expand his efforts to Iran and Kuwait? That's not illegal because Saddam is an Iraqi. That's your reasoning, and it's absurd.

As for the other I told you it deserves a huge conversation which I don't really have the time or willingness to do.

If you're going to make claims, you should have enough respect for your audience to explain them. Maybe you can't explain them because they're half-baked conspiracy theories that don't withstand a modicum of analysis. Either that, or you just don't have time.

 

[Che]

Did it ever occur to you that there is (gasp) MORE to life than government? You blame people who want NOTHING to do with any of this shit, don't you? Oh look, if that person comes from America they MUST be a sheep. You may as well include yourself in that 70% then, because you are NO BETTER than those fools.

1)Did you actually read my post? Cos i didn't blame all americans for this situation.

2) "there is (gasp) MORE to life than government?" Are you serious man? This goverment you're talking about is responsible for thousands unfair innocent deaths. It's not a game I just have to get over for god's sake. Well I guess you're ones of the indifferent ones.

 

[Che]

And Saddam had the right to make contracts and keep the vast majority of the oil wealth to himself and the people who kept everyone else in line? You're arguing that because Saddam was born in Iraq, he can seize power and plunder the nation's resources at the expense of his people, keep them in line with state terrorism, and use their lives to expand his efforts to Iran and Kuwait? That's not illegal because Saddam is an Iraqi. That's your reasoning, and it's absurd.

Sorry man but you're killing me. The way you say it, you question every single goverment in the whole world. Your argument is childish.

Ps. Saddam was put in Iraq (or to be exact was helped to be put) by the americans like many many other dictators.

 

[dark10x]

2) "there is (gasp) MORE to life than government?" Are you serious man? This goverment you're talking about is responsible for thousands unfair innocent deaths. It's not a game I just have to get over for god's sake. Well I guess you're ones of the indifferent ones.

I'm dead serious. I do feel for those people much like you do, but quite frankly, we can't do anything about it. This might sound a bit selfish to some, but I fully believe that I can not change the world, so I will simply be EXTREMELY grateful for what I do have and live the life I was given. I look at it this way, my birth into a specific family was completely out of my control, right? I was, as some might say, "lucky" to be placed in such a situation.

So, at this point in time, I just happen to live in an area that is deemed a "country". I am grateful for the people responsible for originally making my life possible, but the CURRENT American government is not those people. Some may say I OWE America for my life, but the people who I "owe" are no longer alive today.

I live in a decent sized city. Everything I could want is available to me and I have a great job. I am extremely happy with the way things are now, but I fully realize that I am also EXTREMELY fortunate to have all of this. My life is lived without the concern of government (though I try to remain aware). Soon enough, I will be moving to Japan for a while. Once again, I will take whatever life deals me and try to enjoy it. I AM looking forward to it, but it has NOTHING to do with ANY government related agendas.

Obviously, not everyone can afford to turn their backs in such a fashion and many people would say that I am wrong. However, I don't care. Am I evil? I dunno, can you truly define evil in the context of today's world? Who is right? Who is wrong? These days, it seems like opinion all over the world. I'd rather not even try my hand at guessing when it will do no good.

When I move about, I never EVER want to be judged based on the actions of people I have no association with...but if I am, so be it. I know that I have nothing to do with any of it and I don't feel guilty. Rather, I feel pity for the people who act in that manner.

The way you talk, it almost seems as if you believe the people of a specific country to be at fault for things. I didn't kill any innocents, I would never kill them, I don't want anybody TO kill them...but it HAPPENS and I CAN'T STOP IT.

Well, I guess this is really out spirit in this thread. I'll let everyone get back to hating everyone else (and yes, I guess you can go ahead and hate me and call me evil for feeling that way). Keep a pulse on politics...but don't let it dominate you.

I just wish everyone could calm down. It really saddens me to see people get so caught up in what's going on. I'm going to jump out on a limb and say that the vast majority of the people ON THIS BOARD have NOTHING to do with what is occuring right now in the world and couldn't do anything if they wanted to. Living in a different territory hardly means we are all "different" and should be enemies...

 

[Ripclawe]

You said it laughs at Canada. Back it up.

This was a well publicized case, also talks about Iran.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...18822766_67/?hub=TopStories&subhub=PrintStory


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1068206698869_14/?hub=TopStories

So you are essentially agreeing with me. You only concede that there are cases where you don't want to flex your military muscle (ie. currently the US can't do anything to North Korea because their troops are spread too thin).

No, you don't do anything to North Korea because if they launch, they can attack Japan and South Korea with fallout on China. Bad for the world economy, plus you don't want the pupper master China just shoving what is a problem of their making onto us.

Debatable? You've totally discredited yourself there.

No, the palestianians are in the mess they are in because of poor leadership and extremists who have hijacked any political peace process since the early 70's. Yasser Arafat could care less about peace and only wants to figure a way to drive the jews out or kill them off completely. I am not going to bash Israel for using any means necessary to defend themselves .

Nope, what it means is that you take a stand for human rights. No matter who commits the crime, you stand against the criminal.

simplistic thinking based on an ideal situation that doesn't exist in reality.

Tell me, how would it be "unreasonable and offensive to America" if the Bush Administration implemented a policy fair to both sides?

because a "fair" policy for example to Israel/yasser would be rejected because to yasser and his band of garbage anything short of pushing the jews out or being put in a position to do so is unacceptable. Israel bent over backwards to sign peace a couple of years ago and yasser rejected it.

 

[Guileless]

Sorry man but you're killing me. The way you say it you question every single goverment is the whole world. Don't be a kid with your arguments.

That is incoherent.

Ps. Saddam was put in Iraq (or to be exact was helped to be put) by the americans like many many other dictators

The United States had nothing to do with Saddam seizing power in a coup by killing all of his rivals. You're welcome to prove me otherwise with a coherent argument, but I'm sure you "don't have enough time."

 

[ballhog]

I agree with dark. I just live here. The only think I can really do to improve the world is not be an asshole.

 

[Che]

That is incoherent.

My english obviously suck sometimes. I corrected it.

The United States had nothing to do with Saddam seizing power in a coup by killing all of his rivals. You're welcome to prove me otherwise with a coherent argument, but I'm sure you "don't have enough time."

They did man. It's not I don't have enough time but I don't have to start searching articles and writing arguments when it's your job since you're american, to know what your country does.

Sorry for not really trying but I know that most of the people (mostly americans) I'm arguing with about these matters, never care to learn something they just want to "win" the conversation. So I'm not putting too much effort in it, since whatever I tell you no matter how much proof you get, I expect a Ripclawe kind of answer.

 

[dark10x]

They did man. It's not I don't have enough time but I don't have to start searching articles and writing arguments when it's your job since you're american, to know what your country does.

Sorry for not really trying but I know that most of the people (mostly americans) I'm arguing with about these matters, never care to learn something they just want to "win" the conversation. So I'm not putting too much effort in it, since whatever I tell you no matter how much proof you get, I expect a Ripclawe kind of answer.

You really believe that? Seriously man, why so much negative energy? You seemed to have formed so many beliefs based on what others have said...

I just can't help but think that you lump all Americans together into this giant ball of foolishness. If I was that close minded, I would have a hell of a time at work with all of the non-Americans I work with and deal with.

 

[Gattsu25]

I agree with dark. I just live here. The only [thing] I can really do to improve the world is not be an asshole.

Agreed.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

If we fight to preserve infrastructure, now if we go skynet on Canada. no contest, in by Saturday morning and done by the afternoon.

they went skynet on iraq and that's worked out. wait.....

 

[luxsol]

You know, with such a nationalistic view to World politics, where your country shouldn't care what anyone else thinks, it will only in-evitably lead to an atmosphere where no-one gives a shit what your country thinks either.

Don't think we should have invaded Iraq? Go scew yourselves!

Need help in Iraq? Go screw yourselves!

What goes around, comes around.

And then when a country who didn't help and had ties with Iraq now wants to put their hand into the government... "Go screw yourself?"