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[shortsFortallPeople]

This is why SCOTUS matters.

I read this in the NYT and it was infuriating.

Those Bush appointments were a disaster.

They're doing exactly what they were brought in to do though so some would see this as a success.

But it's okay, if Bernie isn't the candidate people will vote for trump or not vote at all and they'll teach everyone a lesson in true progress by sending America back into the stone age.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Democracy in action



Has Hills actually commented on what happened in Arizona?

Even if she did, what would be the outcome? The president has no authority on enforcing voting laws (for obvious reasons).

Obama basically begged congress last year to restore the VRA: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/08/06/remarks-president-voting-rights-act

It actually has bipartisan support, but Ryan is content to sit on his hands about it: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/paul-ryan-voting-right-act_us_56b38a98e4b01d80b24562ef

 

[noshten]

Even if she did, what would be the outcome? The president has no authority on enforcing voting laws (for obvious reasons).

Obama basically begged congress last year to restore the VRA: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/08/06/remarks-president-voting-rights-act

It actually has bipartisan support, but Ryan is content to sit on his hands about it: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/paul-ryan-voting-right-act_us_56b38a98e4b01d80b24562ef

I don't know raising awareness on the issue, since MM failed to cover it?
This is just a taste of what can happen in the GE if these fuckers in Red States aren't put under pressure.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Republicans just doing gods work. You go to heaven if you're rich you now.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I don't know raising awareness on the issue, since MM failed to cover it?
This is just a taste of what can happen in the GE if these fuckers in Red States aren't put under pressure.

Throwing shade on a state you just won seems like a bad strategy.

 

[noshten]

Throwing shade on a state you just won seems like a bad strategy.

I see, so not calling the GOP out of their BS because you won is the smart thing to do.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I see, so not calling the GOP out of their BS because you won is the smart thing to do.

"My victories in the South have all been tainted by electoral fuckery at the state level" seems like an awesome campaign slogan.

In any case, Hillary took states to task in an October speech: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ef615a-7373-11e5-9cbb-790369643cf9_story.html

 

[boiled goose]

Remember folks, the GOP and the Clinton's are exactly the same.

Exactly.

Stop laughing at my drum circle.

Gop is of course much worse than any Democrat, but then again we don't see obama nominating a progressive either.

The "moderate" of the court also voted to gut this.

 

[Imperfected]

Well who the fuck else is this affecting?

Section 5 blocked 22 voting changes from taking effect in Arizona since the state was covered under the VRA in 1975 for discriminating against Hispanic and Native American voters.

 

[infi]

Seems like the Mayor of Pheonix has written to Loretta Lynch about this and has asked the DoJ to investigate it.

https://www.phoenix.gov/mayorsite/Documents/Mayor Greg Stanton Letter to DOJ.pdf

 

[mclem]

That said, there was one good aspect of the election that she mentioned in her interview, that voters could vote at any polling location. That would be a great advancement for voting access if implemented well.

I'm not sure that's quite as good as it sounds; in the UK we're assigned a polling station but that polling station has a list of everyone assigned to it - so we don't require any physical ID, we just give our name and they check it off a list.

It depends on how sensibly polling stations are allocated, I guess. The way they're describing it makes it sound like it's few enough that assigning them still isn't going to be helpful.

(Also, the UK has something like 50,000 polling stations for a country that's actually smaller than Arizona. 60 for an entire county is... not great. How many are there across all Arizona?)

 

[entremet]

Don't forget all the Voter ID laws passed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/25/u...hy-such-long-lines-at-polling-sites.html?_r=0

But beyond the electoral breakdown here, many observers saw Arizona as a flashing neon sign pointing toward potential problems nationally at a time that 16 states will have new voting restrictions in place for the first time in a presidential election. The presidential election will be the first since the Supreme Court dismantled a crucial section of the Voting Rights Act in 2013, freeing nine states, including Arizona and parts of seven others, to change their election laws without advance federal approval.

Wisconsin, which holds its primary elections April 5, is one of nine states with strict photo ID requirements. Thirty-three states have some form of voter ID. Kansas has enacted proof-of-citizenship requirements for all voter registration, a move that has disproportionately affected young voters and those attempting to register for the first time. North Carolina allows a registered voter to challenge the identity and eligibility of any voter casting a ballot in the same county.

On March 9, Gov. Doug Ducey, a Republican, signed a law that made it a felony to collect ballots for others in Arizona and bring them to the polls.

Total fuckery.

 

[Zoe]

I'm not sure that's quite as good as it sounds; in the UK we're assigned a polling station but that polling station has a list of everyone assigned to it - so we don't require any physical ID, we just give our name and they check it off a list.

It depends on how sensibly polling stations are allocated, I guess. The way they're describing it makes it sound like it's few enough that assigning them still isn't going to be helpful.

(Also, the UK has something like 50,000 polling stations for a country that's actually smaller than Arizona. 60 for an entire county is... not great. How many are there across all Arizona?)

Being able to vote at any polling station is a great thing. I work 16 miles away from home and am away from the house longer than the polls are open. Instead I can go to a polling place near my work, at my leisure, during early voting.

I don't know about Arizona, but in Texas the election rolls are electronic.

 

[bionic77]

The law works.

With less people voting you are going to get less voter fraud.

You have to credit it to the Republicans for their brave stance on this imaginary problem.

 

[JCX]

Blaming this on Hillary is...bizarre, to say the least. She had absolutely zero control over localized Arizona budgetary concerns or the Supreme Court three years ago.

Yeah that's what is confusing me. I have been reluctant to think this, but it really feels like the Bernie supporters making all these Arizona claims either do not understand our political process, are ignorant of recent political history, and/or are just paying attention to a presidential primary for the first time.

 

[nabe_shogun]

Being able to vote at any polling station is a great thing. I work 16 miles away from home and am away from the house longer than the polls are open. Instead I can go to a polling place near my work, at my leisure, during early voting.

I don't know about Arizona, but in Texas the election rolls are electronic.

I wish we could vote at any voting place. Last time I voted during the midterms, I almost couldn't vote because for some reason they had my address in their book wrong. They had my old address where I hadn't lived since 2006. What makes less sense is that I had no problem voting in 2008 and 2012.

 

[The Technomancer]

Oy, this is why you all need to vote in November even if your favorite candidate doesn't make it. The Supreme Court matters

 

[Futureman]

This is absolute bullshit. A state shouldn't be trying to save money by making voting more difficult.

Though wouldn't this make voting for everyone more difficult? As far as this having to do with the Voting Rights Act being gutted...

 

[JCX]

This is absolute bullshit. A state shouldn't be trying to save money by making voting more difficult.

Though wouldn't this make voting for everyone more difficult? As far as this having to do with the Voting Rights Act being gutted...

Fewer polling places hurt population dense areas (typically democratic) more than low population density areas (typically republican).

 

[The_Dama]

A lot of people I know didnt vote because they saw huge lines on TV. It took e 2.5 hours and that was at 9am.

 

[Frankfurter]

So the trick is to reduce the number of polling places in those districts where Democrats would win or sth. like that?

 

[TyrantII]

Gop is of course much worse than any Democrat, but then again we don't see obama nominating a progressive either.

The "moderate" of the court also voted to gut this.

Long game son.

Obama is playing 3D chess while the GOP freaks out about their color sprinkles. If only progressives would chill, he's got this.

Senators are already cracking due to this nomination. The optics of senators not doing their job is TERRIBLE. Especially in a election year.

Replacing Scalia with someone center left is a huge change in if itself. Having a Democrat President and Senate when Ginsberg retired will be the time to pick someone to her left.

He's setting up a big fat spicy meatball for progressive voters. Do they show up, or do they pout and take their ball home?

 

[Angelus Errare]

Yeah that's what is confusing me. I have been reluctant to think this, but it really feels like the Bernie supporters making all these Arizona claims either do not understand our political process, are ignorant of recent political history, and/or are just paying attention to a presidential primary for the first time.

All of the above. I'm at the point anytime I see someone say "the establishment" I automatically assume they know fuck all about US politics.

 

[jblank83]

Because it was made un-illegal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYPsoxpt0BU

 

[EdibleKnife]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYPsoxpt0BU

LOL!

 

[Squirrel Killer]

My apologies for the mega-multi-quote post.

Her interview on Chris Hayes tonight was interesting too. She has put all the blame on herself now but the damage is done. I can't believe she blamed the county voters for showing up to vote.

She might have been trying to be a little glib about it and realized how horrible it sounded. She was already backtracking in the original interview. Still, as a public official in charge of elections, she has to know that blaming voters for her failings is a thought she needs to keep inside her head.

...the early votes, which are supposedly "more conservative"...

Just anecdotally from Iowa, the Ds almost always beat the shit out of the Rs in absentee and early voting. 2014 was the only time in my memory that it was even close.

...in recent days I've heard people claim early voting is fraud and disenfranchising people.

Interesting. Early voting with satellite polling locations is expensive, have less oversight than "normal" polling locations, and are gamed by the parties to have the election officials open locations where they think they'll have an advantage. Absentee/mail-in ballots are actual targets of fraud (unlike the GOP's scaremongering of in-person vote fraud.) However, it seems to be a pretty far stretch to call them "fraud and disenfranchising."

That said, there was one good aspect of the election that she mentioned in her interview, that voters could vote at any polling location. That would be a great advancement for voting access if implemented well.

I'm not sure that's quite as good as it sounds; in the UK we're assigned a polling station but that polling station has a list of everyone assigned to it - so we don't require any physical ID, we just give our name and they check it off a list.

Although I've argued against technology in the ballot, the voter roll is a great place to implement technology (assuming there's a backup in case of failure.) All you need to check a voter in is a list of eligible voters and a method of handling day-of updates (if allowed.) That's a perfect job for a computer, a dial-up internet connection should be able to handle the bandwidth required for a text-only database record update. Hell, throw a time-stamp in there and have a camera recording the polling location and you have protection against in-person voter fraud (even though that's virtually non-existent) to throw the GOP a bone.

It depends on how sensibly polling stations are allocated, I guess. The way they're describing it makes it sound like it's few enough that assigning them still isn't going to be helpful.

(Also, the UK has something like 50,000 polling stations for a country that's actually smaller than Arizona. 60 for an entire county is... not great. How many are there across all Arizona?)

There are 15 counties in Arizona, and Maricopa is most populous by far - almost 4 times as big as the next largest. With the moronic "no more than half of the normal polling locations" law, I wouldn't be surprised if there were less than 1,000 locations statewide. I'm sure the law was passed under the guise of saving money or as a prelude to moving to an all-mail ballot, but it sure as hell becomes disenfranchising, especially when election officials are so ill-prepared for an election that has decent turnout.

 

[Future]

This is why posts from DEMOCRATS say they won't vote Hillary if she gets the nom because of some bullshit make me want to rip my eyes out. SCOTUS can make shit like that happen, you just won't feel it until later on. Older people that have went through multiple elections know this. Young people voting for the first time do not.

 

[noshten]

This is why posts from DEMOCRATS say they won't vote Hillary if she gets the nom because of some bullshit make me want to rip my eyes out. SCOTUS can make shit like that happen, you just won't feel it until later on. Older people that have went through multiple elections know this. Young people voting for the first time do not.

Maybe Hillary could have said something about what happened in Arizona in that case instead of not addressing the widespread issues reported and the total mess that occurred. But yes people somehow feel that kinda of stance on my end is unfair to Hillary and she shouldn't criticize Arizona organization because she won. You can see how young voters will see her silence as a sign of indifference for the plight of people who waited 5 hours to take part in this election and vote. There were surely many voters who would have voted for her so it's not like it should be viewed as a something not requiring a comment on her campaign's part.

 

[JCX]

Maybe Hillary could have said something about what happened in Arizona in that case instead of not addressing the widespread issues reported and the total mess that occurred. But yes people somehow feel that kinda of stance on my end is unfair to Hillary and she shouldn't criticize Arizona organization because she won. You can see how young voters will see her silence as a sign of indifference for the plight of people who waited 5 hours to take part in this election and vote. There were surely many voters who would have voted for her so it's not like it should be viewed as a something not requiring a comment on her campaign's part.

But like, this isn't news, just the most recent example of whatt happens every election, and anyone who paid attention to politics just since 2010 would understand this.

If the young voter are so disgusted by this, they should:

- Vote in midterm elections
- Vote for the Dem nominee in November, because their SCOTUS appointment will be more liberal than anyone Trump nominates
- Pressure their state government to open more polling places and expand early voting.
- KEEP VOTING IN MIDTERM ELECTIONS

I say all this as a Michigander who voted for Bernie in the primary. I prefer his policies, but I'm not dense enough to take my ball and go home if he doesn't win the nomination.

 

[noshten]

But like, this isn't news, just the most recent example of whatt happens every election, and anyone who paid attention to politics just since 2010 would understand this.

If the young voter are so disgusted by this, they should:

- Vote in midterm elections
- Vote for the Dem nominee in November, because their SCOTUS appointment will be more liberal than anyone Trump nominates
- Pressure their state government to open more polling places and expand early voting.
- KEEP VOTING IN MIDTERM ELECTIONS

I say all this as a Michigander who voted for Bernie in the primary. I prefer his policies, but I'm not dense enough to take my ball and go home if he doesn't win the nomination.

The person I was replying to was bemoaning young voters who are taking part in the process for the first time...

how about all of the Voter suppression in the south?

Why hasn't Bernie and his supporters have said anything about that? We can play this blame game if you wish.

Is it only because they expected to do better in Arizona?

You do realize that's one of the cornerstones of his campaign right?

 

[Armaros]

Maybe Hillary could have said something about what happened in Arizona in that case instead of not addressing the widespread issues reported and the total mess that occurred. But yes people somehow feel that kinda of stance on my end is unfair to Hillary and she shouldn't criticize Arizona organization because she won. You can see how young voters will see her silence as a sign of indifference for the plight of people who waited 5 hours to take part in this election and vote. There were surely many voters who would have voted for her so it's not like it should be viewed as a something not requiring a comment on her campaign's part.

how about all of the Voter suppression in the south?

Why hasn't Bernie and his supporters have said anything about that? We can play this blame game if you wish.

Is it only because they expected to do better in Arizona?

 

[Piecake]

The person I was replying to was bemoaning young voters who are taking part in the process for the first time...

The poster did not say that at all. The poster was not upset about young people taking part in this election, but was upset about some young people saying they won't vote in the general if their favorite candidate is not nominated.

 

[Dan]

Gop is of course much worse than any Democrat, but then again we don't see obama nominating a progressive either.

I didn't realize Garland was Obama's first and only nominee.

 

[HK-47]

I didn't realize Garland was Obama's first and only nominee.

I've seen Kagan and Sotamayor labeled as pro corporate, so they probably arent progressive either.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Scalia enabled this? How the fuck can someone so damaging make it so far up? Even after death, the effects of him being a complete piece of shit continue.

 

[blackw0lf]

I'm kind of confused how disenfranchising minorities, which is Hillary's strong suit, and making it more difficult for them to vote, was somehow supposed to benefit Hillary.

 

[blackw0lf]

So what's this I hear about how Democrats mysteriously being registered independents, or independents who registered democrat not being able to vote?

 

[Squirrel Killer]

So what's this I hear about how Democrats mysteriously being registered independents, or independents who registered democrat not being able to vote?

Arizona is open primary state, except for the Presidential primary. People registered as independent are not allowed to vote in the primary. Why this one election is closed when the others aren't or why they don't allow day-of updates is beyond me.

As for the Ds registered as Is, there are a number of potential explanations for this, not all of which involve fraud or mystery. First of all, mainly to get this explanation out of the way, is actual election fraud/voter suppression. You'd likely see some sort of pattern to the issues if this was the case (certain date range of registrations/updates, registration/update source, particular age range/location of affected voters, etc....)

Another explanation is simple human/computer error. There are 3.2 million registered voters. If the voter rolls are 99.9% accurate, you'd expect to have 3,200 errors. What kind of errors might you expect? Transcription errors when a human enters a paper-submitted update in to the system, improperly completed forms (such as a person mistakenly putting their work address instead of their home address,) unreadable forms, forms lost by the post office, forms stuck together so that the person entering them accidentally picks up two forms without realizing and only enters the info from the top one, improper error checking in a computer system drops an update. Think of the entire process from when a voter thinks "I need to update my registration" to the update being finalized in the system. Each step in that process is open to error such that a 99.9% accuracy rate is fanciful.

All of this is why there should be a robust and transparent provisional ballot process that fairly ensures properly cast ballots are counted.

 

[Piggus]

As someone from a state where we vote by mail, this is pretty sickening. The fact that republicans resort to this sort of tactic out of desperation is further evidence of how cowardly they are.

 

[Makai]

Primaries are governed by voting rights act?

 

[Justin]

how about all of the Voter suppression in the south?

Why hasn't Bernie and his supporters have said anything about that? We can play this blame game if you wish.

Is it only because they expected to do better in Arizona?

I will take this a step further. Why hasn't Bernie said anything about the grossly in democratic caucus system which by magnitudes disenfranchises more voters than any voter id law or any side effect of the voting rights act being overturned. Could it be because it benefits him???

/rhetorical

 

[entremet]

Scalia enabled this? How the fuck can someone so damaging make it so far up? Even after death, the effects of him being a complete piece of shit continue.

He wasn't a swing vote or anything, but according to him and other Justices who dismantled this clause, they believed that racist and discriminatory practices with elections were a thing of the past.

Not even joking.

This is why representation in the SCOTUS matters.

 

[Savitar]

America, all about the powers that be trying to remove rights from people and deny them the ability to live as best as they can.

 

[Armaros]

I will take this a step further. Why hasn't Bernie said anything about the grossly in democratic caucus system which by magnitudes disenfranchises more voters than any voter id law or any side effect of the voting rights act being overturned. Could it be because it benefits him???

/rhetorical

The irony is that before Bernie showed he does very well in cacusues.

The cry was that Caucuses are Undemocratic and would propel Hillary into the nomination in an Undemocratic fashion.

They shut up about that pretty quickly.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

I will take this a step further. Why hasn't Bernie said anything about the grossly in democratic caucus system which by magnitudes disenfranchises more voters than any voter id law or any side effect of the voting rights act being overturned. Could it be because it benefits him???

A caucus is not an election. That doesn't inherently make it un-democratic.

 

[Justin]

A caucus is not an election. That doesn't inherently make it un-democratic.

What exactly do you think the purpose of the primary caucus' is?

 

[Mael]

Is this like Libya were people gets to assign blame to the nearest Clinton regardless of the whose fault it is?

 

[Damaniel]

what did you mean by "establishment"?

Establishment = 'literally every other politician in the world *other* than Bernie Sanders'

 

[Squirrel Killer]

What exactly do you think the purpose of the primary caucus' is?

To help an organization help determine the direction of the organization. What exactly do you think the purpose of a caucus is?

 

[Justin]

im not sure if your purposefully trying to be obtuse or maybe you have never attended a presidential primary caucus but one of those orders of business is to elect delegates who will go on and cast votes at LD, State and finally the National Convention.