50 years ago Today Walt Disney died
- Thread starter brian577
- Start date
- Status
bobnowhere
Member
...and in 50 years he'll be back.
Anecdotally he is not. Otherwise it's hard to say, the era of his upbringing was full of fucked up views by todays standards. I wouldn't be comfortable asserting him as either with any certainty.
Aaron Strife
Banned
The antisemitism isn't really true.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/crberr...-walt-disney-and-the-nazis/amp/?client=safari
This has an example of Disney working with a Nazi sympathizer (and claiming ignorance when this was made into a scandal and not working with her again), and a comment he made to a Jewish animator who went to work for Columbia Pictures (possibly just an off-color joke). He seemed to have no problem employing Jews and produced an anti-Hitler film during WWII.
The racism part, well...
Hopefully we can just chalk this up to "man of his time" and he himself wasn't super prejudiced. Song of the South gets a lot of attention but honestly I feel the red man song in Peter Pan is way worse.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
And his spirit has been reincarnated.
Kanye West is the modern day Walt Disney
Kanye West is the modern day Walt Disney
A wildly misunderstood individual who has been criticised in allegations thanks to the likes of Family Guy and others continuing to perpetrate them.
Anti-Semitic? No. One of the Nine Old Men was Jewish (Marc Davis) as were 2 of the greatest songwriters to ever have lived who worked exclusively under him (the Sherman Brothers). A lot of these allegations seem to come from admiring the work of Wernher von Braun.
Was he frozen? Again, no. Ward Kimball jokingly said he was frozen and the rumours went from there.
He was certainly a man of his time though.
Anti-Semitic? No. One of the Nine Old Men was Jewish (Marc Davis) as were 2 of the greatest songwriters to ever have lived who worked exclusively under him (the Sherman Brothers). A lot of these allegations seem to come from admiring the work of Wernher von Braun.
Was he frozen? Again, no. Ward Kimball jokingly said he was frozen and the rumours went from there.
He was certainly a man of his time though.
MarkMclovin
Member
Christ, if someone was incredibly racists, would you be asking? Of course he wasn't.
I see humanity has hit an all time low in this case.
Funny how that works. Dumbass rapper claims this enough in wacky tv interviews or during on stage rants for the public to repeat it and eventually go along with it.
those of you who choose to believe Walt Disney wasn't racist need to sit down and watch his work from the 30s-50s.
if it's somehow still not blatantly obvious to you, check out the responses to his works by organizations such as the NAACP.
I get it, he made the films you grew up loving, but please don't try to argue he wasn't racist.
if it's somehow still not blatantly obvious to you, check out the responses to his works by organizations such as the NAACP.
I get it, he made the films you grew up loving, but please don't try to argue he wasn't racist.
Bounceounce
Member
Big influence on me, tangentially through the general pop culture sphere, but also through artists employed by him such as Bill Pete who's books/animals I would study/inspired my imagination back in elementary school.
This thread will turn into a discussion on race though.
Two, Kanye doesn't just get praise because he repeats things,I heard his music in a relative vacuum as I hadn't been immersed in pop culture or an active listener of music up until that point and I thought it was incredible.
This thread will turn into a discussion on race though.
One, that post was clearly sarcastic, it's unfathomable that you took it seriously.
Two, Kanye doesn't just get praise because he repeats things,I heard his music in a relative vacuum as I hadn't been immersed in pop culture or an active listener of music up until that point and I thought it was incredible.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Were there other Disney movies criticized by the NAACP besides Song of the South? And even those comments were based on the misunderstanding that SotS took place before the civil war instead of in the 1870es.
Disney was simply a man of his time. The movies he made during his lifetime were typical of the age they were made in. What's now considered racist by many (blackface, ethic stereotypes) were then considered harmless entertainment by the vast majority of the population.
Kudos to him for making a movie that will never get released physically or digitally in the US but continues to be used as a way to make money.
One day Disney will pull the trigger and do it but i just find it hilarious how they try to profit on the animated segments and music.
One day Disney will pull the trigger and do it but i just find it hilarious how they try to profit on the animated segments and music.
womfalcs3
Banned
Okay, I went to YouTube to watch these songs that make Disney a racist, and I saw this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sls5H4xVHys
The songs in Disney's cartoons were not racist, this is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sls5H4xVHys
The songs in Disney's cartoons were not racist, this is.
Off the top of my head, blackface Mickey Mouse animation, crows in Dumbo, Peter Pan bit already mentioned in thread, and yes Song of the South
Such a bullshit excuse. There was PLENTY of nonracist film being released in the US at this time perio. GOOD film too.
By your logic, you can justify German attitudes during WW2. Just people of their time.
womfalcs3
Banned
Can you explain to me how Song of the South and the Peter Men Native American song were racist? They may be insensitive, but it doesn't reflect racism. Keep in mind that being a racist is to believe that a particular race is superior to another..
Search neogaf for "Zwarte Piet" as others (many, many, many others) have already done an excellent job explaining how incredibly twisted your view on what racism is
I knew before clicking this thread would have gone to the anti-semetism thing very quickly.
There you are taking it straight to Nazis, it's always nazis. He produced anti-Hitler movies, he didn't go out and kill a shitload of people for the religion or colour or whatever else.
His views could well have been very questionable today, I don't believe we'll ever truly know that, we're all very aware that some of those old movies were "products of the time" so to say, and definitely don't fly these days. You just seem to really want to paint him as his massive racist.
There you are taking it straight to Nazis, it's always nazis. He produced anti-Hitler movies, he didn't go out and kill a shitload of people for the religion or colour or whatever else.
His views could well have been very questionable today, I don't believe we'll ever truly know that, we're all very aware that some of those old movies were "products of the time" so to say, and definitely don't fly these days. You just seem to really want to paint him as his massive racist.
He released film that was objectively racist. I'm not the first to say this, the NAACP agrees.
But yes, dismiss us as "really wanting to paint him as a massive racist."
Okay okay, I think I just got annoyed at the jump straight to Nazis.
Which film was the objectively racist one? SotS?
I think the only ones I remember now are the Dumbo crows and Peter Pan red man, the crows in particular do make you cringe.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
It's not a bullshit excuse when it is the actual truth. Ethnic stereotypes were simply not considered offensive or even racist. This attitude only started changing during the sixties but before that you'd see stereotypical African-Americans, Indians, Chinese, Italians, Mexicans, etc etc in all forms of popular entertainment. This is why in 1940 audiences laughed about the antics of a black centaurette in Fantasia but only twenty years later this character was edited out of the movie because it became increasingly embarrassing. Or look at the number of Hollwyood musicals up to the early fifties that had blackface musical numbers. All of the biggest musical stars of the period have put on black facepaint: Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire, Mickey Rooney, Judy Garland, Joan Crawford, Bing Crosby, Doris Day etc. There are lots more examples if you're interested.
Times change, attitudes change. What was once acceptable became unacceptable for later generations.
And it's really silly to drag the nazis into this argument. Godwin's law and all that.
BTW It's sad that a discussion about Walt Disney immediately is derailed by dragging cryogenics and racism into it. The former is not true, the latter is overblown and inconsequential in a discussion on Disney's career.
Isn't it said that he stole the idea from someone else though? Was that ever proven? (I doubt it)
Monocle
Member
The world would be darker without Walt Disney. Even if you ignore the direct impact of Disney's properties, his company's influence is everywhere in the visual arts, from Studio Ghibli's classic films to the work of students of legendary instructors like Walt Stanchfield and Glenn Vilppu.
RIP sir!
RIP sir!
It is a load of poppycock when we stop viewing humanity through a white lense.
People were railing against those stereotypes long before the 60's as racist. They just didn't happen to be fair skinned. Now why should I excuse the actions of one race because it was "the times"?
That is untrue. Offensive portrayals of African Americans and other stereotypes were met with backlash at the time of their release.
Camaway2
Member
He did create the most enduring fantasy universe of our times, his characters defined the childhood of billions of kids, he was an optimist, a believer in science and progress, a strong supporter of the space program.
Was he perfect? No. I do believe however we would all benefit with a few more of his kind in our world.
Was he perfect? No. I do believe however we would all benefit with a few more of his kind in our world.
Camaway2
Member
Agreed, Elon and Walt would have gotten along splendidly.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Oh trust me, if racism is a spectrum Disney definitely would be on it. I just don't know if his brand of caricature was particularly malicious. But maybe it was.
i've always heard this too. a lot of people from that time were so he probably was to an extent
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Don't smoke, kids.
And yeah, the evidence for Disney being racist or nor racist is all over the place. I'll just say he was a man of his time.
"Donald Trump was just a man of his time. I mean half of the country thought it was acceptable to be a racist, sexist, bigot. He was just a product of his time."
ReplacementPelican
Member
I think that's mainly because of Family Guy, isn't it? People saw the joke and just kind of ran with it. Same way people go 'Matt Damon' whenever you say his name.
I agree with you but also him to an extent. It's no doubt that because of Family Guy and the like Walt Disney has been unfairly called out for the bullshit he did rather than the list of other artists which the person you're replying to referred to.
He was accused of being racist and antisemitic long before Family Guy existed though.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
From what I've seen, Trump's views on racial and religious minorities aren't as complex as Disney's were. Disney's films had many Jewish and black stereotypes, but he employed Jews and black people and supported Jewish charities, and I swear I've read somewhere that he tried to reach out to the NAACP in some relation to Song of the South, though I don't recall whether it was during the production or after the negative reactions.
History doesn't get to decide whats considered insensitive, racist, or inappropriate. The current lives of human beings decide based on how they assess those moments in history.
Racism in context of history is still racism. Generations beyond our lives will decide on the things we find acceptable today. Slave owners were men of their time, etc.
EDIT: I don't have a strong personal opinion on if Disney himself was personally racist or antisemetic. But the line is non-existent for me if he used images of racism, and racial insensitivity at the least to make money.
lightskintwin
Banned
Of course Walt Disney was racist, but probably no more than what was normalized in White society at the time so it's not really an interesting conversation in the context of his career.
I think it's less a reflection of Walt Disney, and more a reflection of White society.
I think it's less a reflection of Walt Disney, and more a reflection of White society.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Wish there was a modern equivalent today, wish all theme parks were as cool as DisneyLand/World, from concept to execution and experience.
He was progressive in the sense that he believed that technology and human innovation could lead to a near perfect society. This was the foundation of the EPCOT project.
Then he's a war profiteer as well.
He was progressive in the sense that he believed that technology and human innovation could lead to a near perfect society. This was the foundation of the EPCOT project.
Then he's a war profiteer as well.
- Status