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[GrizzleBoy]

Paul Ryan, speaker of the house, denied a bill that would stop people on terrorist watch lists from buying guns.

So mentally ill people buying them just makes sense when you think about it.

In America.

 

[Romars202129]

It really isn't appropriate to attribute the actions of an individual to an entire group, regardless of your political beliefs. This is an unfathomable and unforgivable crime but one guy is not representative of an entire group no matter how convenient it is to pretend otherwise.

Why don't we check people's mental health before we give them guns?
Is that not a fair question to ask? LTTP, but goddamn.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Why don't we check people's mental health before we give them guns?
Is that not a fair question to ask? LTTP, but goddamn.

NRA says no.

NRA paid off the GOP to say no.

So no.

The most amazing thing is that EVERYBODY FUCKING KNOWS the NRA are literally paying the government so they can stay as profitable as possible on the backs of dead men, women and children EVERYWHERE.

Hey guys, remember when the second amendment was supposed to be about protection against a corrupt government turning on its people.?

Hows that working out for you?

Any plans to use all those bad ass guns you have to stop government literally playing a role in thousands of innocent citizens deaths every year?

No?

SO WHAT THE FUCKING ARE YOU DOING??

Second amendment means FUCK all by all of your own lack of your action to the point where the reason why thousands upon thousands die on a regular basis amounts to "but we want guns, I really like guns, don't take them from me". That's why a little girl is dead.

Does it need to be YOUR child with a fucking exit wound where her ear should be until maybe you start asking WHY THE ACTUAL FUCK the government believes that checking people aren't paranoid schizophrenics before selling them guns isn't a good idea?

Does it need to be YOUR office that a man walks into and murders almost everyone.

THERE ARE MORE MASS SHOOTING IN AMERICA THAN THERE ARE DAYS IN A YEAR.

THERE ARE MORE MASS SHOOTING IN AMERICA THAN THERE ARE DAYS IN A YEAR.

THERE ARE MORE MASS SHOOTING IN AMERICA THAN THERE ARE DAYS IN A YEAR.

Maybe I need to be American to understand, but from the outside, it's completely incomprehensible.

You're all mad.

 

[PnCIa]

Guys, guys. Do you want a fucking bear to kill me while hiking? Thats why i keep my guns around all the time. Imagine if i...like had to go to a police station to pick it up and then return it later or something. Waste of time really.

 

[AndrewPL]

I really don't understand the need to own guns.

10 years ago the news stories were kids killing each other by accident playing with a gun that wasn't stored properly.
Stories of mass murder and terrorism are worse but I'm sure that the accidents are so commonplace now they don't really make much media impact.

 

[Miles X]

What's wrong with expanding background checks, again? If it might, possible, prevent a situation like this.

How about just ban guns?

You. Don't. Need. Them.

People need to stop acting like they're a fucking necessity to living.

 

[Milksheikhs]

A society where a person this mentally ill can buy a gun is a society that needs to radically expand background checks on firearm purchases.

This! Why was someone with these types of mental health issues able to so easily and legally purchase a gun and obtain a CCW. Why!?

No one is going to realistically be able to take away all your guns. But we need to start having more background checks and mental health evaluations before we start handing out guns like they're fucking ice cream on a hot day. If you're such a "law-abiding citzen", then why are you so vehemently against background checks?

I can't even imagine the pain this mother must have to deal with. My heart goes out to her!

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

NRA says no.

NRA paid off the GOP to say no.

So no.

The most amazing thing is that EVERYBODY FUCKING KNOWS the NRA are literally paying the government so they can stay as profitable as possible on the backs of dead men, women and children EVERYWHERE.

Hey guys, remember when the second amendment was supposed to be about protection against a corrupt government turning on its people.?

Hows that working out for you?

Any plans to use all those bad ass guns you have to stop government literally playing a role in thousands of innocent citizens deaths every year?

No?

SO WHAT THE FUCKING ARE YOU DOING??

Second amendment means FUCK all by all of your own lack of your action to the point where the reason why thousands upon thousands die on a regular basis amounts to "but we want guns, I really like guns, don't take them from me". That's why a little girl is dead.

Does it need to be YOUR child with a fucking exit wound where her ear should be until maybe you start asking WHY THE ACTUAL FUCK the government believes that checking people aren't paranoid schizophrenics before selling them guns isn't a good idea?

Does it need to be YOUR office that a man walks into and murders almost everyone.

THERE ARE MORE MASS SHOOTING IN AMERICA THAN THERE ARE DAYS IN A YEAR.

THERE ARE MORE MASS SHOOTING IN AMERICA THAN THERE ARE DAYS IN A YEAR.

THERE ARE MORE MASS SHOOTING IN AMERICA THAN THERE ARE DAYS IN A YEAR.

Maybe I need to be American to understand, but from the outside, it's completely incomprehensible.

You're all mad.

You need to understand that America is imperial through and through. Effectively, the occupation of Iraq is the worst offense of the 21th century, and one of its most liberal presidents ever, is still ten years unable to muster more than "Iraq was a mistake".

Its superiority is created through force of arms, its wealth is amazed through war, the backbone of the country is industrial military complex, it's last sitting vice president was the head of the one largest manufacturers of arms.
The United states has been routinely involved with selling arms to foreign nations, and not just allies, but also despicable regimes and rebel groups.
Americas biggest expense is defense (weapons).

A governments responsibility is to protect its citizens the best you can. You can't really say that about the United States. Effectively it's elected democracy has been hijacked by corporate interests, and like Noam Chomsky says, all these activist movements are just a minor debacle in a endless sea of a populace who is too addicted to reality tv, high speed internet high fructose corn syrup to risk anything that threatens their comfort. invisible shackles.
Things will have to grow desperate, but on the road to actual mass desperation things will have to go really bad. For better or worse, people are amazing at adapting and living under terrible conditions. There is a level of slippery slope fear mongering in this entire belief system, but it's so hard to remain positive about anything anymore.

When the response to SandyHook is more guns, the conversation is really over.

 

[Hoo-doo]

And that's why giving guns away without any restrictions is a bad fucking idea.

Anyone, anyone, can become the victim of depression/anxiety/psychosis/anger. You can be the most tough and strong-of-mind person yet still fail to separate reality from fiction when it hits you.
And when it does, you shouldn't have a fucking gun on your waist to blow people away with on a whim.

 

[Calm waterfall]

Fucking senate. How many more has to die before at least they clear a bill about background check? It unfortunately seems like an endless cycle of death.

 

[Key2001]

I believe it is something like 84% of Democrats and 80% of Republicans (at least those taking part of polls) that wants money out of politics? Despite this candidates and representatives from both sides refuse to talk about it and the media refuses to bring it up. They even actively try to prevent it from ever being brought up (such as manipulating polls to exclude a candidate that wants to talk about the issue of money in politics).

At the same time even though both voters from both sides are against money in politics people become fans of politicians like they become fans of actors, athletes, etc. and refuse to admit that their candidate has been bought from the corporations.

Edit: It may had been 74% and 70%, I am not positive if it was in the 80% or 70% range.

 

[openrob]

remember guys, NOW IS NOT THE TIME

Not to be insensitive, but when is?

 

[Rebel Leader]

Not to be insensitive, but when is?

Next week

 

[oxrock]

I think most people would be able to agree that a paranoid schizophrenic who believes people are trying to control him with their mind powers should probably have his guns confiscated. How such instances could effectively be identified and acted upon efficiently before incident is beyond me however.

 

[Jobbs]

Ugh. That poor little girl. I didn't feel like being gut punched this morning.

 

[Seraph_Nicholas]

September, huh. Sounds like the mental illness triggered a desire to be armed.

Wonder how often that happens.

 

[ElFly]

It really isn't appropriate to attribute the actions of an individual to an entire group, regardless of your political beliefs. This is an unfathomable and unforgivable crime but one guy is not representative of an entire group no matter how convenient it is to pretend otherwise.

Why shouldn't we assume all gun owners in america are mentally unstable?

They steadily refuse any kind of mental check, they cry bloody murder any time their sacred right to bear arms may be suggested to be slightly impinged, they claim the president is going to take their weapons any minute. All those sound like paranoia to me.

If said group of people was actually responsible of anything, they'd be demanding instituting, at the very least, regular psychological checks before issuing this kind of license.

 

[Skinpop]

This! Why was someone with these types of mental health issues able to so easily and legally purchase a gun and obtain a CCW. Why!?

No one is going to realistically be able to take away all your guns. But we need to start having more background checks and mental health evaluations before we start handing out guns like they're fucking ice cream on a hot day. If you're such a "law-abiding citzen", then why are you so vehemently against background checks?

I can't even imagine the pain this mother must have to deal with. My heart goes out to her!

gun violence will never be fixed by doing checks for mental illness. you'll maybe lower it by some single digit percentage, but that's all.

The only thing that will make the situation better is to ban handguns, make the rest of the guns a hassle to get and only allowed for use in hunting or target shooting.

 

[Stinkles]

This is false. Research is NOT banned...it is just not federally funded through the Centers for Disease Control. Those who want to roll back individual liberty are free to go out and fund all the "research" they want.



I have tried. And I have found some very earnest and quality back and forth with some anti-gun posters. Usually though, it quickly goes to just insult time.

Given it's a significant cause of Death in America the CDC and the government have a serious responsibility to research it. They are prevented from doing so by congress on behalf of the NRA. You know full well what I meant and you knew I wasn't talking about private or academic research - neither of which congress would have any authority over, so stop pretending you're a victim of unfair discourse if you're going to be intellectually dishonest anyway.

 

[low-G]

Gun owners need to be rounded up and sent to an island to fight to the death for survival.

Simply not worth the risk. Some people fear Syrian refugees, I fear gun owners. Get them out.

 

[Stinkles]

Gun owners need to be rounded up and sent to an island to fight to the death for survival.

Not really helpful. Gun owners need to be our partners in creating sensible, fair and practical gun regulations. Gun owners are the only people the NRA will listen to and gun owners need to step back, look at the facts, roll up their sleeves and help us.

 

[NimbusD]

I can see a justification for it - not one I personally agree with, but one that is at least defensible on paper. Similarly, I don't think civilians are the people to be dealing with invasive species, but I can at least see the rationale.

Seriously. At the very least it's a reason why there should be mandatory training and tests. And it's crazy to me that All were trying to do is make gun access more sensible and can barely even get people to talk about it. In America we know it's impossible at this point in time to ban them or anything remotely close, but what we have surrounding guns is anarchy.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Children are being shot dead at soccer games.

What a country.

Not a gun problem, it's filthy, yuro, soccer hooliganism innit?

 

[Lucreto]

It's really sad that this keeps happening

Then I see this come across on Facebook

That annoyed me immensely. Young kids should not have to be concerned by such things.


Edit: like all things online it's hard to know if these things are genuine or fake to invoke emotion.

 

[BearFlexington]

If we confiscate all the guns how will police justify killing black folks?

 

[appaws]

And the NIH as well, after a study which found carrying a gun makes you 5 times more likely to be shot.

Do you agree with this NRA sponsored ban as well?

Or is gun violence not a disease nor a health issue? Just something to be completely ignored unlike alcohol, smoking, cars, and anything else gun ownership is compared to in shooting threads.

If you were an animal, you'd be an ostrich.

There is no ban. Every anti-rights organization can go nuts and do all the "research" they want. Why is it only valid if the state does it?

Given it's a significant cause of Death in America the CDC and the government have a serious responsibility to research it. They are prevented from doing so by congress on behalf of the NRA. You know full well what I meant and you knew I wasn't talking about private or academic research - neither of which congress would have any authority over, so stop pretending you're a victim of unfair discourse if you're going to be intellectually dishonest anyway.

I really don't think I am being dishonest. People using the word "ban" are the ones being dishonest because they are trying to make it seem like "research" is not allowed.

It is not illegal to do all the research and studies you want. Go ahead and dig up a bunch of facts that demonstrate why citizens should give up their constitutional and human rights. I'm sure one of our benevolent overlords like Michael Bloomberg will pay for it.

The word "ban" has a specific meaning, and it is NOT "not paying for."

 

[Dai101]

If we confiscate all the guns how will police justify killing black folks?

Yeah. Like if they need to justify that.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

Why don't we check people's mental health before we give them guns?
Is that not a fair question to ask? LTTP, but goddamn.

At a superficial level, mental health checks are part of background checks. There are a lot of problems beyond that requirement that effectively neuters the process. Many states either underreport or do not report mental health issues in a timely manner. Worse still, the process can be avoided altogether with private purchases in some states.

The consistent mistake in discussing this topic is assuming that all gun owners are Republican NRA members that are OK with any of those problems.

 

[hey_monkey]

Every citizen of America needs to carry a gun everywhere they go. It's time to start defending yourselves because the politicians ain't gonna do nothing for you.

I haven't read the rest of the thread. I can't. The first page is already making my head swim. I have a seven year old child and this? Carrying a fucking gun myself? Wouldn't bring him back if some oops-no-longer-responsible CCW-holding asshole had just shot him. Shooting the guy myself wouldn't fix anything either. MORE GUNS DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM. IT MEANS MORE DEATHS.

Jesus. I can't. I can't.

 

[User 73706]

What's wrong with expanding background checks, again? If it might, possible, prevent a situation like this.

muh freedoms

 

[besada]

There is no ban. Every anti-rights organization can go nuts and do all the "research" they want. Why is it only valid if the state does it?



I really don't think I am being dishonest. People using the word "ban" are the ones being dishonest because they are trying to make it seem like "research" is not allowed.

It is not illegal to do all the research and studies you want. Go ahead and dig up a bunch of facts that demonstrate why citizens should give up their constitutional and human rights. I'm sure one of our benevolent overlords like Michael Bloomberg will pay for it.

The word "ban" has a specific meaning, and it is NOT "not paying for."

Your dishonest parsing of the ban against federal study isn't convincing anyone. Federal studies were, in fact, banned. The CDC and the NIH, whose role it is to study these things, were banned from further research.

Yes, non government affiliate groups are allowed to do research, but that doesn't change the fact that the CDC and NIH were banned from doing so. Please, you're welcome to your own opinions, but you need to stop making up your own facts.

 

[Your Entertainer]

There is no ban. Every anti-rights organization can go nuts and do all the "research" they want. Why is it only valid if the state does it?



I really don't think I am being dishonest. People using the word "ban" are the ones being dishonest because they are trying to make it seem like "research" is not allowed.

It is not illegal to do all the research and studies you want. Go ahead and dig up a bunch of facts that demonstrate why citizens should give up their constitutional and human rights. I'm sure one of our benevolent overlords like Michael Bloomberg will pay for it.

The word "ban" has a specific meaning, and it is NOT "not paying for."

Federally funded research has been "banned". The amount of money, resources and data the CDC has access to is unmatched. Its impact would be significant.

Your post is painfully stupid to read. We already have data from other countries that less guns = less death by guns, period. That much is clear cut. As if having more mass fucking shootings than days in the year so far doesn't already make this clear. LOL at claiming gun ownership is a human right, and LOL at bringing up the constitution. As if the ambiguous document from over 200 years ago is infallible, not subject to change and/or different interpretations.

More guns = more death by guns, period. They need to become more difficult to obtain, more public education must be provided, and eventually, they must be phased out culturally and literally. We owe it ourselves as a society - the costs far outweigh the benefits.

 

[fester]

gun violence will never be fixed by doing checks for mental illness. you'll maybe lower it by some single digit percentage, but that's all.

Talk about making "the perfect the enemy of the good." We don't need a 100% fix, we need an improvement. At this point I'd be thrilled with our elected officials doing ANYTHING that could lower gun deaths by any amount. At this point all we get are thoughts and prayers.

 

[Diablos]

This is sickening. How is expanding background checks infringing on any sane American's right to bear arms? Honestly, if you take issue with this, it makes me wonder if you have something to hide. We can put measures in place that would not affect any sane and responsible gun owner.

 

[hom3land]

They should have the CDC do a study on gun violence..

Oh yea that's right the GOP made it almost impossible for them to do it.

 

[Skinpop]

Talk about making "the perfect the enemy of the good." We don't need a 100% fix, we need an improvement. At this point I'd be thrilled with our elected officials doing ANYTHING that could lower gun deaths by any amount. At this point all we get are thoughts and prayers.

I'm not talking about a 100% fix, I'm talking about bringing gun violence down to similar levels as other developed countries. mental illness is just a scapegoat in all of this. the effects would be negligible at best. it should be obvious to anyone that until handguns are banned and proper control/licenses are introduced nothing will change much at all.

 

[fester]

I'm not talking about a 100% fix, I'm talking about bringing gun violence down to similar levels as other developed countries. mental illness is just a scapegoat in all of this. the effects would be negligible at best. it should be obvious to anyone that until handguns are banned and proper control/licenses are introduced nothing will change much at all.

Single-digit improvements, as you originally theorized, are not negligible. Those numbers represent real lives. And how are background checks not a part of the whole picture? I had to get a background check when I took my most recent job, and last time I checked having a job never killed anyone. Why wouldn't we treat guns the same way?

I think we're on the same side, but your post is way too much of a "throw hands up in air, nothing will be fixed until X" type of comment which I think is counter-productive. There are lots of steps in the process of fixing America's gun problem, lets start making progress on some of it.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

I'm not talking about a 100% fix, I'm talking about bringing gun violence down to similar levels as other developed countries. mental illness is just a scapegoat in all of this. the effects would be negligible at best. it should be obvious to anyone that until handguns are banned and proper control/licenses are introduced nothing will change much at all.

You do realize you're making this claim in a thread whose aggressor was suffering from a mental illness, correct?

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Not to be insensitive, but when is?

right before the next big shooting and not a moment sooner

 

[spazchicken]

It's really sad that this keeps happening

Then I see this come across on Facebook

That annoyed me immensely. Young kids should not have to be concerned by such things.


Edit: like all things online it's hard to know if these things are genuine or fake to invoke emotion.

No kid wrote this.

Not sure about the rest of the US but CA does background checks for felons and the mentally unstable. I wouldn't mind this being a country wide regulation if it isn't already.

 

[User 73706]

You do realize you're making this claim in a thread whose aggressor was suffering from a mental illness, correct?

That doesn't inexplicably invalidate the situations where it is used as a detractor in situations like the Charleston church shooting, where Dylann Roof was made out to be this misunderstood little kid (read: 21-year-old whose status as a "loner" was corroborated by asking his friends) and that mental illness was the real problem, despite the fact that pictures of him burning the American flag were left out of news reports because reasons.

 

[DECK'ARD]

You do realize you're making this claim in a thread whose aggressor was suffering from a mental illness, correct?

Frustrating to have to post things twice, but here you go:

Blaming Gun Violence on the Mentally Ill Is Easy, but Ignorant

It's a long read, but worth it.

 

[spazchicken]

If we confiscate all the guns how will police justify killing black folks?

They still have tasers that can easily be taken off the belt and tossed on black bodies. Also, black people still have dehumanizing stares.

 

[Saucy_XL]

You need to understand that America is imperial through and through. Effectively, the occupation of Iraq is the worst offense of the 21th century, and one of its most liberal presidents ever, is still ten years unable to muster more than "Iraq was a mistake".

Its superiority is created through force of arms, its wealth is amazed through war, the backbone of the country is industrial military complex, it's last sitting vice president was the head of the one largest manufacturers of arms.
The United states has been routinely involved with selling arms to foreign nations, and not just allies, but also despicable regimes and rebel groups.
Americas biggest expense is defense (weapons).

A governments responsibility is to protect its citizens the best you can. You can't really say that about the United States. Effectively it's elected democracy has been hijacked by corporate interests, and like Noam Chomsky says, all these activist movements are just a minor debacle in a endless sea of a populace who is too addicted to reality tv, high speed internet high fructose corn syrup to risk anything that threatens their comfort. invisible shackles.
Things will have to grow desperate, but on the road to actual mass desperation things will have to go really bad. For better or worse, people are amazing at adapting and living under terrible conditions. There is a level of slippery slope fear mongering in this entire belief system, but it's so hard to remain positive about anything anymore.

When the response to SandyHook is more guns, the conversation is really over.

Your whole narrative is based around this fact and it's wrong

 

[Draft]

It really isn't appropriate to attribute the actions of an individual to an entire group, regardless of your political beliefs. This is an unfathomable and unforgivable crime but one guy is not representative of an entire group no matter how convenient it is to pretend otherwise.

That's true. Maybe if something like this happens again we can talk about trends. For now let's not politicize this and instead direct pot thoughts and prayers towards the victims and their families.

 

[Skinpop]

You do realize you're making this claim in a thread whose aggressor was suffering from a mental illness, correct?

the point isn't that mental illness isn't a cause, it's that you can't prevent it to a meaningful extent. there was an article on last page with a professor talking about it. people slide in and out of it, many are good at hiding their illness so unless you commit them to comprehensive tests and investigations chances are you won't find much at all.

 

[The One and Done™]

So BAU then....dafuq.....I know these things happen everywhere all the time but that very fact is what makes this absolutely unacceptable to any degree. I don't know what it will take for something to change.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

That doesn't inexplicably invalidate the situations where it is used as a detractor in situations like the Charleston church shooting, where Dylann Roof was made out to be this misunderstood little kid (read: 21-year-old whose status as a "loner" was corroborated by asking his friends) and that mental illness was the real problem, despite the fact that pictures of him burning the American flag were left out of news reports because reasons.

Dismissing mental illness as a contributing factor in gun violence in a thread whose aggressor was seemingly suffering from a mental illness is ridiculous regardless of whether or not you or I believe it is falsely attributed to other cases. "People blame X when it isn't true, therefore X is never true" is just faulty logic.

That said, I wouldn't exactly paint Dylann Roof, Robert Lewis Dear, Christopher Dorner, or James Eagan Holmes as mentally sound individuals. People who knew these individuals have come forward and described a number of concerning and shared traits, paranoia being chief among them. There is merit to the suggestion that undiagnosed mental illnesses are contributors in a lot of cases like these.

That's true. Maybe if something like this happens again we can talk about trends. For now let's not politicize this and instead direct pot thoughts and prayers towards the victims and their families.

There is literally not a single post in this thread that is discussing the issue in the way you're characterizing here. Make a legitimate point rather than manufacturing arguments to snidely respond to.

the point isn't that mental illness isn't a cause, it's that you can't prevent it to a meaningful extent. there was an article on last page with a professor talking about it. people slide in and out of it, many are good at hiding their illness so unless you commit them to comprehensive tests and investigations chances are you won't find much at all.

Even serious mental illnesses like paranoid schizophrenia can be treated with medicine and therapy. Access and social stigmatization stand between people suffering from illnesses like that and the treatment that they need and neither of those issues are irrevocable or politically unachievable.

 

[User 73706]

Dismissing mental illness as a contributing factor in gun violence in a thread whose aggressor was seemingly suffering from a mental illness is ridiculous regardless of whether or not you or I believe it is falsely attributed to other cases. "People blame X when it isn't true, therefore X is never true" is just faulty logic.

That said, I wouldn't exactly paint Dylann Roof, Robert Lewis Dear, Christopher Dorner, or James Eagan Holmes as mentally sound individuals. People who knew these individuals have come forward and described a number of concerning and shared traits, paranoia being chief among them. There is merit to the suggestion that undiagnosed mental illnesses are contributors in a lot of cases like these.

The problem is reliance on mental illnesses as an exclusivity, rather than asking how those individuals got to those points in the first place. Roof was a clearly racist individual, and while racism is just as much of a problem in that situation, if not more of one, people are quick to dismiss that racism and its accessibility are a topic that actually need to be tackled in favor of just branding him as psychologically irreparable.

 

[Skinpop]

Dismissing mental illness as a contributing factor in gun violence in a thread whose aggressor was seemingly suffering from a mental illness is ridiculous regardless of whether or not you or I believe it is falsely attributed to other cases.

There is merit to the suggestion that undiagnosed mental illnesses are contributors in a lot of cases like these.

this is not what I'm talking about. what I'm saying is that you can't know who will become mentally ill and in many cases unless you do extensive continuous check ups you won't even find those who are. add that mental illness is poorly understood, does anyone really have confidence in our ability to find and help those afflicted? I certainly don't. Checks should definitely exist, but it's not the answer to fixing gun violence just a really small part of it.