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[old manatee]

Maybe if he had a second gun he would have been in a position to return fire at himself.

 

[TheTurboFD]

Who?

This pattern of absolutist statements that were never made is very curious.

Gun advocates don't give a shit about mental health unless they can throw the mentally ill under a bus to protect guns. Pointing out that suicide is made easier by high availability of guns is directly counter to that strategy.

Here's one from a simple search of mental in the gun threads



We need to start implementing better requirements for purchasing and owning a gun

First, I believe every single gun purchase should have background checks. Gun shows and stores already require a background check so I'm talking about straw purchases in which it's completely legal to sell certain weapons without even going to an FFL for a check. All I have to do is assume that you're sane and not a criminal.

Second, mental illness evaluations should be mandatory before the purchase of a weapon as well as maybe once or twice a year check while owning a weapon.

Third , training requirements before purchase as well as yearly exams so that you are deemed fit to handle the weapon. This could easily stop the idiots from shooting themselves most of the time.

fourth, open carry should be banned. It should either be concealed or don't carry it at all. Tired of these idiots on youtube who walk around with a rifle on their back just because they can. They make the rest of us look bad as well as draw unnecessary attention to themselves. I believe if you are seen open carrying then you should be fined and after maybe a third time you should lose your privileges.

All that bull shit about magazine capacities as well as "Assault Rifles" is exactly that , bull shit. This is brought up from people who don't know how to implement better gun laws but want to appeal to the mass idiots who know nothing about weapons.

 

[Key2001]

So again. Your answer is to do nothing because it would be very hard.

I don't think he is saying to do nothing, he is responding to someone that asked for the gun sellers to be held responsible even if everything about the sale was completely legal.

 

[family_guy]

It really isn't appropriate to attribute the actions of an individual to an entire group, regardless of your political beliefs. This is an unfathomable and unforgivable crime but one guy is not representative of an entire group no matter how convenient it is to pretend otherwise.

Guy went from normal to crazy. This is something that can happen to any of us.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Here's one from a simple search of mental in the gun threads

No, I'm talking about your statement that some people think all CCW holders are child killers. Who?

As for that comment, where is he wrong? Until it's actioned by anything it's meaningless. Mental health care isn't just spotting the person who might give you a bad headline.

That's treating mental illness as a scapegoat, and the association does more harm than good.

 

[ezrarh]

Maybe if he had a second gun he would have been in a position to return fire at himself.

No the obvious answer is that the 7 year old girl should have had a gun as well.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

So again. Your answer is to do nothing because it would be very hard.

The answer is because it's absolutely moronic to punish and hold people who are legally selling products responsible for the actions of the customers who legally purchased those goods. There is no realistic way for those shop owners to have any way of knowing what a random person buying their goods is going to end up doing with it.

This is such a simple concept that it shouldn't even warrant an explanation. Five seconds of thinking explains why it's an unreasonable and outlandish idea.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

Good guys with guns stop bad seven-year-old girls with guns.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Geezuz fuck..RIP, little one. Ugh..

Did you both miss all those many other times fucked up gun stuff has happened in America?

Isolated incidents..

Good guys with guns stop bad seven-year-old girls with guns.

He's a fucking hero he is..

 

[railGUN]

So again. Your answer is to do nothing because it would be very hard.

I said that where exactly?

 

[gutter_trash]

ban guns

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

One mentally ill person did something terrible therefore tens of millions of others meeting a similar demographic do terrible things. Ok.

Isn't it the same with Muslims, or Blacks, or Hispanics?

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

I'd start with two major changes:
1) I'd mandate that mental illness be treated like physical illness by insurance companies who want to do business with the government, including listing policies on healthcare.gov. That means the same coverage for mental health visits you get for your doctor, and every plan has mental health coverage.

2) I'd require all gun owners to submit to having their background checks re-run every two years. If, in those two years, they fall into one of the categories we won't sell firearms to -- felons, the mentally incompetent, the mentally ill who've been forcefully committed, etc -- then the local police confiscate their weapons.

That'd be a start. A two-pronged approach that deals both with the mental health care crisis in the U.S. and acknowledges that people's capability of handling the responsibility of a firearm changes over time.

There are a ton of other things I think would help, from requiring background checks for private sales, etc., but I'd be happy to get those two. The problem is, none of the people who shout "It's a mental illness problem" seem to actually be willing to put their money where their mouth is. I haven't seen a rush by Republican legislators to increase coverage of mental illness, even though they keep saying it's important, and they are in control of the legislature.

Plenty of people are willing to put their money where their mouths are: we're just drowned out by the constant back-and-forth between "BAN GUNS" and "NO REGULATION" screaming matches. If you're expecting to find any serious advocacy for gun regulation on the Republican side, you might as well pack it up. This is the party that considers working with the President to recover a storm-ravaged area to be a mark against you.

I think confiscation for mental-health issues would be reasonable if there is a path by which they can either get them back (Through pursuing state-mandated mental health services) or be compensated the fair-market value of the weapons. Your suggestion about private gun sales is on point as well...the idea that two people can simply get together and exchange a firearm without any oversight is insane. Require that it be done at an FFL, federally cap the fee at something reasonable like $10, and require that guns be registered to their owners in a national database that can be updated when the firearm changes hands.

That said, creating an apparent negative association with seeking mental health is likely to deter people from pursuing or embracing it even if they feel that they need it. Andreas Lubitz sought help, was declared unfit for work, but withheld that information from his employer and ultimately killed everyone aboard Germanwings Flight 9525. The obvious solution on the surface is to recommend that mental health issues immediately and perhaps irrevocably ground a pilot, which may have saved everyone aboard that flight. The issue is the next one. If pilots (Who have the same financial obligations as the rest of us) are on the fence about seeking help and know that they could potentially lose both their job and career, they're going to keep it to themselves. Even if screenings are forced, they'll condition their answers in such a way that results in a bill of clean health.

Uh that is called the no true Scotsman fallacy. While yes the majority of ccw holders are responsible, the point of this story is to understand the dangers that the permit poses.

An example of such a fallacy in this context would require an assertion that no legitimate CCW holders commit crime ever. I made no such assertion and in fact acknowledged that CCW holders do, in fact, occasionally commit crime (Which is itself self-apparent by the content of the OP). I then stated the objectively verifiable fact that CCW holders are an extreme minority in terms of representation in gun crime.

 

[EviLore]

Condolences to the family of the little girl. An avoidable tragedy that highlights problems with the current system of gun ownership in the United States, which I'll address at the end.

A large part of it is that there has been a long propaganda campaign by various pro-gun groups to convince Americans that CCW holders are somehow much more responsible than the ordinary gun owners. Therefore, the expansion of such programs would bring about an increase in safety and fewer deaths or crime.

This claims is most likely total nonsense, as there is very little evidence for it, other than pointing out the basic fact that rich white men tend not to commit burglaries or robberies. Since wealth white people are the predominant holders of CCWs, that tend to skew the number in a way that made look like CCW holders commit crimes at a much lower rate than normal. In reality, a closer look suggests they are commit violent crimes at a much higher rate than people of their demographic group who don't own guns.

Let's look at hard numbers instead of conjecture and see what we can glean.

In Texas, for 2013, CHL-holders (CHL=CCW, concealed handgun license) had nearly a 0% crime rate across all categories, including ones involving firearms. Criminal deadly discharge of a firearm for CHL holders? 1 out of 204 overall. Aggravated assault with a deadly weapon (not necessarily guns, but the category where assault could involve guns) 10 out of 2,292.

More broadly, for assault, robbery, rape, kidnapping, any sort of violent crime in general whether involving a firearm or not, most of the crime stats are 0% for CHL holders.

https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/Reports/ConvictionRatesReport2013.pdf


So there's the secondary argument being presented that this isn't relevant because all the permit holders are rich white people who don't need to go around committing crimes regardless. To address that, let's look at demographics and make some correlations. Demographically, I don't have combination socioeconomic data available to make things easy, but I can point to a combination of relevant individual data points and draw reasonable conclusions.

Let's look at the economic data for black people in Texas (there are clear advantages to focusing on this subset because of less diversity in economic status). Median income in black households in 2011 was $32,229, vs $55,412 for white households, with black households having very little representation in the upper income brackets:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104552.html

Basically, most black people in Texas are poor or working class, so this is a useful data point when correlating to the racial makeup of all CHL holders to draw reasonable conclusions about the typical economic status of a CHL holder.

7.1% of people granted CHLs in Texas for 2013 were black, while black people account for 11.5% of the total population.

84.8% of people granted CHLs in Texas for 2013 were white, with white people accounting for 82.4% of the total population.

https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/Reports/2014Calendar/byRace_Sex/1LicenseApplicationsIssued.pdf

http://osd.texas.gov/Resources/TPEPP/Estimates/2013/2013_ASRE_Estimate_alldata.pdf


The statistical gap between the total black population and black CHL-holders is not huge, despite the black population having a massively disproportionately low economic status with very little representation in the upper income brackets. White economic demographics span the spectrum in the expected ways, yet CHL licensing correlates only marginally toward whites.


Your conclusions about CCW holders mostly being rich white people who wouldn't normally commit crimes anyway but still commit more crimes than non-CCW holders does not seem to have any bearing in reality based on the above data.



Speaking more broadly and politically, since we can't viably disarm the United States any time soon for a number of reasons, the most sensible solution is better background checking, better tracking of firearms ownership/sale, and mandatory psychiatric evaluations for granting firearm permits. Checking a box on the application form assuring the government that you're not an insane psychopath is not exactly due diligence there as far as someone's current sound mental state as a prospective handgun owner, and in some states you just walk into the store and buy an AR-15 with your crazy eyes set to maximum output and you're good to go commit the mass shooting of the day. We can certainly address issues like these to start to curtail the disastrous prevalence of mass shootings in the United States, without trying to walk down the unrealistic path to general disarmament.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Was the guy being actively treated for paranoia? Or did his paranoia appear after he purchased a firearm?

Tell me that little boy is holding a toy gun.

Spoiler

He's not, I'm guessing

Prolly a .22. Kids been shooting em since forever. Everyone has good trigger discipline and guns appear to be pointed correctly. Good for them.

Isn't it the same with Muslims, or Blacks, or Hispanics?

Yes, and this is called bigotry and racism then and is generally condemned.

Speaking more broadly and politically, since we can't viably disarm the United States any time soon for a number of reasons, the most sensible solution is better background checking, better tracking of firearms ownership/sale, and mandatory psychiatric evaluations for granting firearm permits. Checking a box on the application form assuring the government that you're not an insane psychopath is not exactly due diligence there as far as someone's current sound mental state as a prospective handgun owner, and in some states you just walk into the store and buy an AR-15 with your crazy eyes set to maximum output and you're good to go commit the mass shooting of the day. We can certainly address issues like these to start to curtail the disastrous prevalence of mass shootings in the United States, without trying to walk down the unrealistic path to general disarmament.

I think eventually most states will adopt gun laws similar to New York. There's a HUGE backlog of reporting from mental hospitals to the background check system. Many hospitals didn't really keep up w/ reporting in. Since the law here was changed the reporting increased drastically.

I like what's required for a pistol permit (just to own a pistol) in that we have to provide multiple references and those references get background checks performed on them, along with your spouse being contact by the police and them asking "Hey, are you comfortable with your partner having this gun? Anything we need to know?". Followed up with a face to face interview w/ a police officer to go over everything.

2) I'd require all gun owners to submit to having their background checks re-run every two years. If, in those two years, they fall into one of the categories we won't sell firearms to -- felons, the mentally incompetent, the mentally ill who've been forcefully committed, etc -- then the local police confiscate their weapons.

Two years? I disagree. It should be far more frequent. Should be a recurring background check. You go and buy a gun and the background check is done. You get your gun and go home. But in the background a computer is running a recurring background check on you and millions of others nearly daily checking and rechecking against all types of databases (criminal, mental health...etc) and if there are any qualifying circumstances that prevent you from owning a gun a warrant is issued and they come and confiscate your firearms.

 

[TheTurboFD]

No, I'm talking about your statement that some people think all CCW holders are child killers. Who?

Obviously it was a bit of sarcasm but the first page basically gets that idea

One mentally ill person did something terrible therefore tens of millions of others meeting a similar demographic do terrible things. Ok.

Not directly but, yes. People are dying all over the country because sociopaths are obsessively attached to their instruments of murder.

Pretty much. If someone supports the current state affairs in terms of guns legislation in the US as far as I'm concerned they are part of the problem, or at least enabling tragedies like this.

Was the guy being actively treated for paranoia? Or did his paranoia appear after he purchased a firearm?

I like what's required for a pistol permit (just to own a pistol) in that we have to provide multiple references and those references get background checks performed on them, along with your spouse being contact by the police and them asking "Hey, are you comfortable with your partner having this gun? Anything we need to know?". Followed up with a face to face interview w/ a police officer to go over everything.

Of course he wasn't because mental health is basically just a supposed "Scapegoat"

I also agree with the idea that everyone should go through the checks that we have to go through to get a CCW. Multiple references and thorough background checks as well as a face to face interview. Mental health evaluations and yearly exams should be added to that as well.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Obviously it was a bit of sarcasm but the first page basically gets that idea

Nope, still can't see it.

And indeed the first was doing the same thing you did, which is quite amusing. A perfect self-created feedback loop!

Of course he wasn't because mental health is basically just a supposed "Scapegoat"

Nice misrepresentation again.

It is when the only time you hear about mental health is in relation to gun violence, and still nothing is done in the area of mental health inbetween.

Let alone implement the checks deemed so important.

 

[luxarific]

I still don't understand why we can't require that gun owners carry gun insurance. Right now, society and non-gun owners bear most of the costs of gun ownership "gone wrong". It's time for gun owners to bear some of that cost as well.

 

[ultrazilla]

It really isn't appropriate to attribute the actions of an individual to an entire group, regardless of your political beliefs. This is an unfathomable and unforgivable crime but one guy is not representative of an entire group no matter how convenient it is to pretend otherwise.

Can't be quoted enough. Stop this.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Can't be quoted enough. Stop this.

Seeing as no one did, it shouldn't be quoted at all.

 

[bounchfx]

it seems almost frustratingly obvious that being able to obtain a gun should be extremely difficult, and to maintain ownership of said gun to be something the individual has to prove worthy of. background checks are a fucking no brainer, same with psychological checks, same with trigger discipline and knowing how to accurately aim at your intended target. and all three should be annual. The owner should also have to pay for each of these things.

It should not be easy, in any way, to carry a firearm. Not with our track record, at least. :\

 

[besada]

Two years? I disagree. It should be far more frequent. Should be a recurring background check. You go and buy a gun and the background check is done. You get your gun and go home. But in the background a computer is running a recurring background check on you and millions of others nearly daily checking and rechecking against all types of databases (criminal, mental health...etc) and if there are any qualifying circumstances that prevent you from owning a gun a warrant is issued and they come and confiscate your firearms.

I'd sure as hell take a real-time tracking system I'm just not sure you could get that or mandatory psych evals through a legislature. I wholeheartedly support both ideas, though.

 

[TheTurboFD]

Nope, still can't see it.

And indeed the first was doing the same thing you did, which is quite amusing. A perfect self-created feedback loop!



Nice misrepresentation again.

It is when the only time you hear about mental health is in relation to gun violence, and still nothing is done in the area of mental health inbetween.

Let alone implement the checks deemed so important.

More like you choose to not see it but ok. I also never understood these types of posts either. You say you only hear about mental health when it's in relation to gun violence but isn't that the point? You have people with mental health issues shooting others. Then you say still nothing is done in the mental health area as if I have the ability to walk up to Obama and the rest of the government and force them to make a change. Hell this could go both ways. You only hear about gun control when it's in relation to gun violence as well as still get nothing done about it. Gun control is basically all talk and no action.

I still don't understand why we can't require that gun owners carry gun insurance. Right now, society and non-gun owners bear most of the costs of gun ownership "gone wrong". It's time for gun owners to bear some of that cost as well.

There actually is gun insurance. NRA for example has some. I wish it could be mandatory.

 

[Dude Abides]

I think many if not most gun-owners would readily trade guns being easy to get for less restrictions on the type of gun they can own or where they can take it.

Universal background checks for all gun purchases in exchange for not committing a felony when you drive through DC with a couple spent cartridges in your trunk that you missed when cleaning? Sounds like a deal. Registration of semi-autos in exchange for nationwide CCW reciprocity? That is an actual compromise, not the 'we only want to ban scary military guns' that is so common. Unfortunately it is far more difficult legislation to craft because of all the different jurisdictions involved.

Trading licensure and registration for more freedom for gun owners who go through the process to become licensed to own what they want might work, and might result in a more free society for everyone (which IMO is what should be the ultimate goal of governance). Banning guns won't work vs. the largest block of single issue voters who are completely dug in on this issue.

Gun owners don't give a shit about interstate travel or driving in DC. No restrictions on guns period because the first thing Hussein Obama does with guns is the first step on the road to FEMA Auschwitz. Gun nuttery is a religion. It's not open to rational compromise.

 

[DECK'ARD]

More like you choose to not see it but ok. I also never understood these types of posts either. You say you only hear about mental health when it's in relation to gun violence but isn't that the point? You have people with mental health issues shooting others. Then you say still nothing is done in the mental health area as if I have the ability to walk up to Obama and the rest of the government and force them to make a change. Hell this could go both ways. You only hear about gun control when it's in relation to gun violence as well as still get nothing done about it. Gun control is basically all talk and no action.

The logic is so tortured here that it hurts to unscramble.

So I won't.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

No worries America, keep holding on to those guns.

 

[zeioIIDX]

I almost instantly burst into tears just reading the thread title...my little girl was just in soccer last year when she was 5 and I started to imagine something like this happening to her while being at her soccer game/practice and I just got overwhelmed. I feel terrible for the mother and the rest of the daughter's family. Meanwhile, my daughter is asleep in her bedroom across the hall from me :/ You never know when you or someone you love will go. Gotta make the most of the time you share with everyone, every time you're together. Sounds corny but it's the truth. I get so paranoid when my daughter is visiting her mother every other week (joint custody) because I'm not there to protect her.

 

[HyperionX]

Condolences to the family of the little girl. An avoidable tragedy that highlights problems with the current system of gun ownership in the United States, which I'll address at the end.

Let's look at hard numbers instead of conjecture and see what we can glean.

In Texas, for 2013, CHL-holders (CHL=CCW, concealed handgun license) had nearly a 0% crime rate across all categories, including ones involving firearms. Criminal deadly discharge of a firearm for CHL holders? 1 out of 204 overall. Aggravated assault with a deadly weapon (not necessarily guns, but the category where assault could involve guns) 10 out of 2,292.

More broadly, for assault, robbery, rape, kidnapping, any sort of violent crime in general whether involving a firearm or not, most of the crime stats are 0% for CHL holders.

https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/Reports/ConvictionRatesReport2013.pdf

So there's the secondary argument being presented that this isn't relevant because all the permit holders are rich white people who don't need to go around committing crimes regardless. To address that, let's look at demographics and make some correlations. Demographically, I don't have combination socioeconomic data available to make things easy, but I can point to a combination of relevant individual data points and draw reasonable conclusions.

Let's look at the economic data for black people in Texas (there are clear advantages to focusing on this subset because of less diversity in economic status). Median income in black households in 2011 was $32,229, vs $55,412 for white households, with black households having very little representation in the upper income brackets:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104552.html

Basically, most black people in Texas are poor or working class, so this is a useful data point when correlating to the racial makeup of all CHL holders to draw reasonable conclusions about the typical economic status of a CHL holder.

7.1% of people granted CHLs in Texas for 2013 were black, while black people account for 11.5% of the total population.

84.8% of people granted CHLs in Texas for 2013 were white, with white people accounting for 82.4% of the total population.

https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/Reports/2014Calendar/byRace_Sex/1LicenseApplicationsIssued.pdf

http://osd.texas.gov/Resources/TPEPP/Estimates/2013/2013_ASRE_Estimate_alldata.pdf


The statistical gap between the total black population and black CHL-holders is not huge, despite the black population having a massively disproportionately low economic status with very little representation in the upper income brackets. White economic demographics span the spectrum in the expected ways, yet CHL licensing correlates only marginally toward whites.

Your conclusions about CCW holders mostly being rich white people who wouldn't normally commit crimes anyway but still commit more crimes than non-CCW holders does not seem to have any bearing in reality based on the above data.

I've cited a study that backs my claims of my initial post in a previous post: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3518334/

The main results, which I'll highlight, are as follows:

Results. CHL holders were much less likely than nonlicensees to be convicted of crimes. Most nonholder convictions involved higher-prevalence crimes (burglary, robbery, or simple assault). CHL holders’ convictions were more likely to involve lower-prevalence crimes, such as sexual offenses, gun offenses, or offenses involving a death.

Conclusions. Our results imply that expanding the settings in which concealed carry is permitted may increase the risk of specific types of crimes, some quite serious in those settings. These increased risks may be relatively small. Nonetheless, policymakers should consider these risks when contemplating reducing the scope of gun-free zones.

So basically, it's true that being a CCW holder is associated with a much lower chances of commit crime in general, and given your data, that might be true even of black CCW holders. So calling purely the effect of being rich and white might not be correct. However, the ratio of violent crimes committed, such as gun offenses or homicides, relative to the non-violent ones, are higher for CCW holders than non-CCW holders.

So it still seems logical to suggest that CCW holders are committing violent crimes at a rate higher than their background socioeconomic factors would suggest. Possibly black CCW holders are also wealthy than mosts blacks and therefore not disposed to committing crimes either. There probably needs to be a much more in-depth study that breaks down the socioeconomic factors more on this, in particular poor vs rich CCW holders. Sadly, I've yet to find a study like that, so I can't say anything for sure here.

Speaking more broadly and politically, since we can't viably disarm the United States any time soon for a number of reasons, the most sensible solution is better background checking, better tracking of firearms ownership/sale, and mandatory psychiatric evaluations for granting firearm permits. Checking a box on the application form assuring the government that you're not an insane psychopath is not exactly due diligence there as far as someone's current sound mental state as a prospective handgun owner, and in some states you just walk into the store and buy an AR-15 with your crazy eyes set to maximum output and you're good to go commit the mass shooting of the day. We can certainly address issues like these to start to curtail the disastrous prevalence of mass shootings in the United States, without trying to walk down the unrealistic path to general disarmament.

That's a much bigger discussion that the one of CCW holders. There are a lot of things that need to change. In this case, there needs to be much better mental evaluation here, something I think we all agree on.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

If people want to blame mental health for these recurrent tragedies, then they better be prepared to entirely overhaul the current system and end the reign of insurance companies over therapy. And no, a fiftieth protest vote to repeal Obamacare so millions lose their health insurance does not count as an overhaul.

Why is someone suffering from delusions allowed to buy a gun? How did this happen?

Well due process exists. As far as I know, proven mentally unstable people are not allowed to have guns. But if they have not been proven to be mentally unstable in the first place or have some sort of proven/established mental defect beforehand, denying legal guns to them would be a violation of their basic civil rights.

 

[CaviarMeths]

This is heartbreaking and I feel like I'm going to be sick, cry, or both.

My biggest fear is that violence is so deep rooted, intricately embedded in American culture, and no amount of "gun control" or "background checks" or "mental health" rhetoric are ever going to move society in the right direction. It horrifies me that the idea is even entertained that the solution to gun violence is more guns. Armored guards in schools and shit like that, what the holy, everlasting fuck.

 

[AnathemicOne]

I'm not even sad anymore, and that's fucking sad isn't it? I've become jaded to such constant tragedies that it's just the usual story on the news.

 

[BocoDragon]

There's senseless violence and then there's senseless violence.

 

[dreamlongdead]

We don't even deserve our Second Amendment rights.

 

[adin75]

Absolutely sickening. How many more need to die before something is done America?

 

[Sealed]

Speaking more broadly and politically, since we can't viably disarm the United States any time soon for a number of reasons, the most sensible solution is better background checking, better tracking of firearms ownership/sale, and mandatory psychiatric evaluations for granting firearm permits. Checking a box on the application form assuring the government that you're not an insane psychopath is not exactly due diligence there as far as someone's current sound mental state as a prospective handgun owner, and in some states you just walk into the store and buy an AR-15 with your crazy eyes set to maximum output and you're good to go commit the mass shooting of the day. We can certainly address issues like these to start to curtail the disastrous prevalence of mass shootings in the United States, without trying to walk down the unrealistic path to general disarmament.

i mean we could ban gun sales and limit the amount of guns the public has to the amount it's at now (plus the spike in sales when people rush to get the last of their precious guns), and somehow make a law to confiscate guns after the owners death (not allowed to be passed in a will and whatnot)

not sure how feasible that would be though

 

[7DollarHagane]

if this guy didn't have any sort of criminal history then there wouldn't have even been any red flags. the article didn't say if he had been to any mental health clinics either. how would stricter gun laws stop somebody like him?

Someone told authorities that he was losing it, having episodes and delusions. Someone knew about the issues this person had. Why didn't that person step in to have the weapon taken away before this happened?

 

[ohlawd]

for fuck's sake. just fucking kill yourself and only yourself. why drag innocents with you.

RIP Emma

 

[Amalthea]

1. Create a country where mental health problems get barely treated, especially full blown insanity...

2. ...and give anybody a gun.

3. ???

4. Success

 

[Beerman462]

Anecdotal!!!!

Grew up in Iowa. My Grandfather(mothers side) has plenty of rifles and is super left(voted for Obama). My dad has about 6 rifles and is super left as are my uncles. They even had an excuse to use them. Long story short. One of my uncles married into a crazy family that attacked my grand parents and uncles in the middle of the night(they lived across the road from each other). One of my uncles got stabbed multiple times and survived yet no one got shot even though my grandfather held a rifle on them until the cops showed up.

My in laws(Arizona) have pistols and rifles. They are all extreme right. My in-laws all believe that Obama would take their guns if given the chance. One bought an AR-15 after Sandy Hook, because he believed they would be banned. Another brother in-law takes his gun everywhere in case shit. He has also had at least one accidental discharge.

Like I said anecdotal, but guns aren't necessarily the problem. Maybe the type of gun and the mentality of the owner are the issue. People like to say the AR's are no different than a hunting rifle except they look "scary". Well maybe the fact that the crazies are attracted to scary guns is enough of a reason to ban them.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Here's a good read on mental illness and gun violence:

Blaming Gun Violence on the Mentally Ill Is Easy, but Ignorant

Worth reading in total about the misconceptions and negative impacts this has, as well as how poorly mental health is treated in America, but here's the concluding part:

Dr. Jeffrey Swanson, a professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at the Duke University School of Medicine and an expert on the connection between violence and mental illness, said in a recent interview with ProPublica, "the risk factors for a mass shooting are shared by a lot of people who aren't going to do it ... if you paint the picture of a young, isolated, delusional young man ... that probably describes thousands of other young men." He cites a 2001 study of mass shooters that found three out of four had no psychiatric history and only 6% were judged to have been psychotic at the time of the mass murder.

Swanson says that even if schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and depression were cured, violent crime in this nation would decrease by only about 4 percent.

So making the mentally ill scapegoats for gun violence may be convenient, but it's flat-out wrong and won't make anyone safer.

 

[Carcetti]

The early thread makes me shiver from disgust or rage. It's handy for gun advocates that it's not proper time to talk about gun violence when someone has been shot ("out of respect" of course) when there's a mass shooting or two every single day. Makes sure the time never comes. It's like a bunch of ostriches.

 

[Key2001]

Someone told authorities that he was losing it, having episodes and delusions. Someone knew about the issues this person had. Why didn't that person step in to have the weapon taken away before this happened?

I think it may be that the majority just doesn't know how to handle the mentally ill or who to contact to get help. From what I understand the police are not trained to handle to mentally ill, if it is a close friend or family member the person be afraid what calling the police would lead to.

The early thread makes me shiver from disgust or rage. It's handy for gun advocates that it's not proper time to talk about gun violence when someone has been shot ("out of respect" of course) when there's a mass shooting or two every single day. Makes sure the time never comes. It's like a bunch of ostriches.

I must be overlooking it or something, where did anyone state that "it's not proper time to talk about gun violence" or something similar in this thread?

 

[Jaffaboy]

Did you both miss all those many other times fucked up gun stuff has happened in America?

+1. How many have to die before it ends?

 

[Magni]

How many Mortal Kombat characters doing random things accounts are there on this site lol.

How tragic. I don't see the need to include the jab at concealed carry people though, OP. I mean.. one bad apple and all. You could literally say everyone is a law abiding and responsible citizen until they aren't.

That's the whole fucking point.

People can snap at any time, this isn't Minority Report, so how about we behave like a civilized society and have some sort of control surrounding guns.

And I say that as a gun enthusiast.

 

[Jisgsaw]

This is obviously a problem with soccer.
Nothing to do with the absence of gun control obviously.

 

[DECK'ARD]

That's the whole fucking point.

People can snap at any time, this isn't Minority Report, so how about we behave like a civilized society and have some sort of control surrounding guns.

And I say that as a gun enthusiast.

The number of people who can't parse the OP correctly is amazing.

To be blunt, I find people worrying how gun owners look in a thread about a 7yo being shot and killed fucking disgusting.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

We got problems. We could begin to solve them, but... Republicans.

 

[Carcetti]

I think it may be that the majority just doesn't know how to handle the mentally ill or who to contact to get help. From what I understand the police are not trained to handle to mentally ill, if it is a close friend or family member the person be afraid what calling the police would lead to.



I must be overlooking it or something, where did anyone state that "it's not proper time to talk about gun violence" or something similar in this thread?

Could've sworn I saw it (saw on it on GAF many, many times before) but maybe I picked it on some comment thread on this news. Not the best thing to read first in the morning.

 

[J Range]

This happened literally next door to my house yesterday. Unbelievable. Took field trips here as a kid. Had my first date here. Its a popular ice skating place. Sickening.

 

[Nelo Ice]

I hate them 2nd amendment. Shit like this is why I wonder how being in public could be hilariously unsafe cuz anyone could have a gun and open fire. Doesn't really worry or stop me from going out but the thought crosses my mind .