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720p vs 1080p for gaming?

Shogmaster said:
See that last word? Gaming. That means discussion of "1080p display can display over 2 million single color pixels per frame....that is more color resolution, by defination...." is about relevant to the topic as how much faster your car is to the 1/4 mile than mine since most X360 and PS3 games will be doing 720p, not 1080p.

I think the OP is asking if 1080p would be better for gaming than 720p, not how relevant it will be this coming generation in terms of the number of titles using it. How many or how few titles using it has no bearing on whether it's better quality or not.
 
gofreak said:
I think the OP is asking if 1080p would be better for gaming than 720p, not how relevant it will be this coming generation in terms of the number of titles using it. How many or how few titles using it has no bearing on whether it's better quality or not.

Then maybe we should quit this thread now and revisit it in 5 years. ;)
 
>>>and 2nd of all, a pixel (picture element) can represent a single color.....a 720p display can have ~ 900 thousand single color pixels per frame and a 1080p display can display over 2 million single color pixels per frame....that is more color resolution, by defination....<<<

If both were being fed a 1080p source, you would have a point. With a 720p source, color resolution would be limited by the source.
And in that case, the 720p display would have an advantage where color accuracy is concerned. An interpolated value can not be more accurate than the original color.
 
TAJ said:
>>>and 2nd of all, a pixel (picture element) can represent a single color.....a 720p display can have ~ 900 thousand single color pixels per frame and a 1080p display can display over 2 million single color pixels per frame....that is more color resolution, by defination....<<<

If both were being fed a 1080p source, you would have a point. With a 720p source, color resolution would be limited by the source.
And in that case, the 720p display would have an advantage where color accuracy is concerned. An interpolated value can not be more accurate than the original color.


THANK YOU! finally someone with sense!
 
Oh, and sorry to muddy the waters Shog, but that would only apply to gaming. (which could be 4:4:4 component). With movies on disc, the color difference channels are lower resolution. So, with 720p movies, both the 720p device and the 1080p device would be handling color resolution interpolated from less than 720p.
 
TAJ said:
Oh, and sorry to muddy the waters Shog, but that would only apply to gaming. (which could be 4:4:4 component). With movies on disc, the color difference channels are lower resolution. So, with 720p movies, both the 720p device and the 1080p device would be handling color resolution interpolated from less than 720p.

But I thought BR movies are aiming for 1080p? In any case, I'm not all that hopeful for either of the DVD replacement candidates anyways. For me, HD all about gaming right now.
 
I have been following this thread from the beginning, and I'm still at a loss. Kinda slow. Sorry 'bout that.
I need to upgrade to a new boob tube. I mainly use the TV for gaming. The points for both 720p and 1080p are compelling. I am all for jumping into 1080p, but should I wait a year or so for 1080p inputs? Or are 1080p toys something that will not be showing up for a few more years (like PS3 games, etc.)? I would hate to drop big bucks and then feel compelled to buy a new TV in a year or so due to inputs. Basically, I am curious if GAF suggests waiting for inputs or just buy now.

I know that this really isn't a contribution to the thread, but I crave opinions. Thanks.
 
CousinLump said:
I have been following this thread from the beginning, and I'm still at a loss. Kinda slow. Sorry 'bout that.
I need to upgrade to a new boob tube. I mainly use the TV for gaming. The points for both 720p and 1080p are compelling. I am all for jumping into 1080p, but should I wait a year or so for 1080p inputs? Or are 1080p toys something that will not be showing up for a few more years (like PS3 games, etc.)? I would hate to drop big bucks and then feel compelled to buy a new TV in a year or so due to inputs. Basically, I am curious if GAF suggests waiting for inputs or just buy now.

I know that this really isn't a contribution to the thread, but I crave opinions. Thanks.

It's really a balancing act. All the discussion here basically proves that there is no single "equation" to make a decision. You'll probably have to look at the TV yourself to make the final decision. I'd just say that its possible a TV may have 1080p, but be inferior to a 720p TV in other areas - so it's not 100%. You can get a 720p or 1080i set that will look amazing nonetheless if you are used to SDTV. Just remember to look at everything - not just the resolution (for example - I can't stand most projection LCDs despite their 720p resolution because I can't stand the "screen-door effect" - doesn't bother some, but bothers me).

For my personal opinion - and this is 100% personal, no fact - I think most of the non-CRT technologies are still evolving and, thus, haven't really fully baked yet. In a couple years - prices on them will come down, quality will go up, and a lot of the disadvantages they have now will be eliminated as manufacturers will have had more experience. Not to mention there are new technologies coming down the line. So, personally, I think now is not the time to spend a ridiculous amount of money on a TV. It's a good idea to find a nice looking HDTV at a reasonable price (in my case, I found a direct-view CRT HDTV to be the best for a budget price) and wait a couple years to get the big one. I won't buy a big screen until there's no screen door effect, no rainbow effect, black levels that match a CRT, and at least 1080 lines of resolution progressive... oh, and they give you a reasonable numer of component and hdmi inputs. Right now the SXRD is the best match, but its still pricey and I think more technologies are improving to match these standards.
 
>>>But I thought BR movies are aiming for 1080p?<<<

Yeah, I was just making a point, that being that a 720p movie on disc would still have interpolation done at some level even going out to a 720p display.

>>>In any case, I'm not all that hopeful for either of the DVD replacement candidates anyway<<<

Nor am I. I've always thought that Sony has been doing everything they could to fuck up next-gen disc on the authoring/encoding side of things, and their recent MPEG-2 announcement was not a surprise.
 
TAJ said:
>>>Wow, it's amazing that I'm playing in 720p on my analog 24FW900 monitor through an analog VGA connection then.
Go read up on HD, PLEASE.

Isnt the FW900 capable of 1080p?<<<

Yeah, it handles that very well. The sweet spot is 1920X1200@80, so 1080p@72 (No judder, less flicker? Yes, please) would be very crisp. It can display 2304X1440@80, but the image would be less crisp from pixels bleeding together. (more detailed, just softer)
OH, OKAY.
 
cyberheater..... /sigh

Your calculations are way off. We may play games in a low-light setting, but the thing you are looking at (the TV) is bright.
 
Blaster1X,
The 720p gaming I mentioned is for Xbox 360. I'd use higher resolution for some PC games if I didn't absolutely despise PC gaming.
 
Borys said:
Then you've got a fucked up vision. 720p is almost 4x the pixels.

Why am I not surprised that cyberheater of all people posted this thread?

Look, if you hate technological progress get back to 240p gaming. Or B&W television. Or bikes.

:lol
 
CousinLump said:
I have been following this thread from the beginning, and I'm still at a loss. Kinda slow. Sorry 'bout that.
I need to upgrade to a new boob tube. I mainly use the TV for gaming. The points for both 720p and 1080p are compelling. I am all for jumping into 1080p, but should I wait a year or so for 1080p inputs? Or are 1080p toys something that will not be showing up for a few more years (like PS3 games, etc.)? I would hate to drop big bucks and then feel compelled to buy a new TV in a year or so due to inputs. Basically, I am curious if GAF suggests waiting for inputs or just buy now.

I know that this really isn't a contribution to the thread, but I crave opinions. Thanks.

I'd make sure the TV had two HDMI ports.

You may want to wait and see what information comes out of the upcomming CES. It might intrest you to know, Samsung is going to show off a new DLP engine that eliminates the color wheel.
 
>>>It might intrest you to know, Samsung is going to show off a new DLP engine that eliminates the color wheel.<<<

DLP projectors without color wheels have been around for ages. They're just more expensive.
You might have even seen one of the commercial three-chip models in a movie theater.
 
Another thing is that several versions of HDMI exist. Version 1.3 is the one to wait for which is due sometime in 2006. HDMI 1.3 will support 1080p and it will also support more advanced audio codecs from Dolby Labs.

I'm curious what version of HDMI the PS3 will have. I would hope 1.3, otherwise people won't being out outputting to 1080p with PS3's.
 
I appreciate all the honest replies. Seems I might be better off getting a cheaper screen for the time being, and then fully take the big plunge in a couple years or so.
 
TAJ said:
>>>It might intrest you to know, Samsung is going to show off a new DLP engine that eliminates the color wheel.<<<

DLP projectors without color wheels have been around for ages. They're just more expensive.
You might have even seen one of the commercial three-chip models in a movie theater.



He's not talking about 3 chip DMDs....


This is what he is talking about:

http://www.gamingillustrated.com/samsunginterview.php

Gaming Illustrated: Should gamers be concerned about the so called "Rainbow Effect" on DLPs?

Dan Schinasi: Most users cannot perceive the rainbow effect thanks to the 7200 RPM color wheel. In 2006 we plan to debut a new DLP light engine that completely eliminates the requirement for a color wheel. Details and a preview of this new technology will be announced at CES and we anticipate shipping at least one new model with this technology in 2006.

TAJ said:
>>>and 2nd of all, a pixel (picture element) can represent a single color.....a 720p display can have ~ 900 thousand single color pixels per frame and a 1080p display can display over 2 million single color pixels per frame....that is more color resolution, by defination....<<<

If both were being fed a 1080p source, you would have a point. With a 720p source, color resolution would be limited by the source.
And in that case, the 720p display would have an advantage where color accuracy is concerned. An interpolated value can not be more accurate than the original color.

Yeah, you probably missed it when I said:

kleegamefan said:
If you have a 720p source being displayed on a 720p display and then you have a 1080p source being displayed on a 1080p display, the 1080p source on the 1080p display can have more accurate color AFAIK..

This would be true of video, film or game sources, of course...

I wasn't talking about scaling up/down sources....again, a 1080p source being displayed on a 1080p TV can have more accurate color than a 720p source on a 720p TV (deja vu revisited).....I can't believe how many times I have to say this in a single thread....and how many times I can ask for a counterpoint without it being addressed....


rod said:
why do most 360 games not have AA in them?


Because Xenos/C1 handles Antialiasing totally diffrent from the ATI x800 cards that were in Alpha X360 dev kits...

With a normal PC card, AA is a feature that you can toggle on or off to get results but X360 developers couldn't do this with launch games because they didn't recieve Beta X360 kits (the ones with Xenos/C1s in them) until August 2005...

To do 2X(or better) AA @ 720p res or better on Xenos/C1 hardware, tiling must be supported by the game engine because it won't fit in the 10MB eDRAM framebuffer *at that resolution*


HOWEVER

Bizzare Creations found a way around this by rendering PGR3 at 600p with AA and this fits in the frame buffer just fine even without tiling.....so PGR3 has AA but other launch games do not...

Games made from scratch on Beta X360 or better dev kits should have AA+720p res no problem :)
 
Given that the newHP DLP sets are like the only televisions on the market today that actually accept a 1080p signal over HDMI, aren't we getting ahead of ourselves (unless you wanted to play PS3 titles on a computer monitor, which sort of defeats the purpose of console gaming IMO)?

Pretty much all other 1080p sets (DLP at least... not sure where plasma or LCOS stand these days) have no means of accepting a 1080p signal (they only upscale lower rez content to that output format).
 
Brimstone said:
Another thing is that several versions of HDMI exist. Version 1.3 is the one to wait for which is due sometime in 2006. HDMI 1.3 will support 1080p and it will also support more advanced audio codecs from Dolby Labs.

I'm curious what version of HDMI the PS3 will have. I would hope 1.3, otherwise people won't being out outputting to 1080p with PS3's.


DD+ and Dolby True HD are backwards compatible with HDMI 1.1....they are transportable over HDMI 1.1 via PCM...


My guess is PS3 is HDMI 1.2 or better because the console doesnt have a firewire out so the only way to digitally output DSD audio from PS3 would be HDMI 1.2 or better...
 
svenuce said:
Given that the newHP DLP sets are like the only televisions on the market today that actually accept a 1080p signal over HDMI, aren't we getting ahead of ourselves (unless you wanted to play PS3 titles on a computer monitor, which sort of defeats the purpose of console gaming IMO)?

True, but the rumor off cnet.com says there will be more sets that have inputs by summer. That's not too far off.
 
svenuce said:
Given that the newHP DLP sets are the only televisions on the market today that actually accept a 1080p signal over HDMI, aren't we getting ahead of ourselves (unless you wanted to play PS3 titles on a computer monitor, which sort of defeats the purpose of console gaming IMO)?

All other 1080p sets have no means of accepting a 1080p signal (they only upscale lower rez content to that output format).


Sony Qualia 004 R2

JVC HD-ILA Pro models and the HD-XXFH96 series

Sony "Ruby" VPL VW100(accepts 1080p/60fps)

Panasonic TH-50PX500 Plasma

Panasonic TH-65PX500 Plasma


All can accept 1080p sources via HDMI and the Samsung rep (link in this thread) also stated 2006 Model DLPs will also accept 1080p via HDMI...and more products are sure to be announced at CES in two weeks...
 
I think I stated it in another thread but the lack of devices being able to produce 1080p output is why you see a void of HDTVs that don't have the connectors and the screens that aren't able to support 1080p.

he only use for 1080p in a HDTV now is for a PC. With that said, you see a nice amount of higher end HDTVs that have VGA connectors that are able to accept and output 1080p. By next year, when you have PS3+Blu Ray, Blu Ray and HD-DVD, you should see more HDTVs with the correct HDMI connections and price droppage in some form.
 
The big thing in DLP technology is "wobulation". Some techniques that Hewlett-Packard developed for printers can be applied to DLP. Texas Instruments licensed the technology from HP a while back.

HP's wobulation--a term loosely derived from the word "wobble"--works by shifting an image slightly in one direction or another by a distance less than the width of a single pixel, changing the image according to where the projection beam is directed. The overlapping images together can create details finer than the original pixel width.

For example, a 1024-by-768 pixel display, augmented by first-generation 2X wobulation, would have an effective resolution of 2,048 pixels by 1,536 pixels. Using the later 4X wobulation, it would have 4,096 pixels by 3,072 pixels.

Wobulated images lack the "screen door" grid of thin black lines that separate each pixel with conventional digital projection technology.

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-5229745.html


To accomplish this, wobulation borrows tricks from the inkjet-printer industry, in which a higher dots-per-inch resolution (dpi) is simulated to increase a picture's detail and richness, something often referred to as dithering or as optimized dpi.

In printing, it was found that native 1,200-dpi output actually looked worse than simulated 600-dpi output, Allen continues. "That's similar to what we believe wobulation will prove in projection." In other words, Allen says, a wobulation-enabled projector will, in theory, produce higher-quality images than a regular digital projector that has much greater resolution.

http://www.presentations.com/presentations/technology/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000729994

With ordinary HDTVs, achieving high resolution is an expensive process. The part of the TV that generates the pixels – the spatial light modulator (SLM) – is one of the priciest parts of a projection system. But TVs with wobulation technology are able to double the number of pixels in the image without doubling the pixel on the modulator, so there’s no need for a more expensive SLM – and no need to spend nearly twice as much for the same high-quality picture.

How is it possible to double the resolution with the same number of pixels? By thinking about light the same way you think about ink. HP research had already shown it was possible to create higher resolution prints by carefully overlapping drops of ink on paper.

By applying the same thinking to projection, wobulation overlaps points of light. It actually projects two independent, overlapping images, so that one pixel is replaced by two – but it all happens so precisely and quickly that all the human eye notices is a smoother, more natural-looking image. Wobulation virtually eliminates the distracting “screen door” effect of a grid of pixels. In HP testing, viewers have actually preferred wobulated images over non-wobulated images created with a double pixel count spatial light modulator.


WobulationÂ’s inventor is Will Allen, chief scientist in HPÂ’s Display Technolgy and Products group. After focusing on ink-based technologies, Allen redirected his creative energy to digital image projection. Rather than thinking about ink, Allen thought about light.

“As I learned how digital projectors worked, I realized they had a striking number of similarities with inkjet printers,” explains Allen. “Both devices create a color picture from a matrix of points composed of primary colors. I discovered, to my surprise, that light was the ‘ink’ of our dreams. Being easier to control, light allowed us to accomplish in weeks what had ta ken years to accomplish with inks.”

HPÂ’s research with inkjet printers showed that to increase print quality you need to place more and more overlapping ink droplets within the same size grid on a small area on the page. This yields better image quality, even if dot size is not reduced. Allen surmised that applying this concept to projection systems would improve resolution of projected images.

To test the idea, Allen and his team modified a projector and used an aerospace mirror to rapidly and accurately shift a projected image in a way that overlapped the pixels. Two specially constructed images were projected. When they first projected the test images on the wall everyone was stunned by crisp quality. Wobulation had been born.

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/feature_stories/2005/05wobulation.html
 
The problem I have with the wobulated xHD4s is that they are not *true* 1080p chips.....

There are only 960 columns and 1080 rows of mirrors on the xHD4 DMD.....the newer 1080p single chip DMDs used in front projector products like the Projection Designs Action! Model Three do actually have 1920 columns and 1080 rows of mirrors on the DMD itself.....

It seems Texas Instuments/HP are only using wobulation on Rear-projector TVs....it doesnt work well with front projectors, appearently...
 
Kleegamefan said:
The problem I have with the wobulated xHD4s is that they are not *true* 1080p chips.....

There are only 960 columns and 1080 rows of mirrors on the DMD.....the newer 1080p single chip DMDs used in front projector products like the Projection Designs Action! Model Three (which also accepts 1080p via HDMI, BTW) do actually have 1920 columns and 1080 rows of mirrors on the DMD itself.....

It seems Texas Instuments/HP are only using wobulation on Rear-projector TVs....it doesnt work well with front projectors, appearently...

If a person percieves improved image quality, thats what matters most. It's sort of the same principle with anti-aliasing, more pixels aren't being produced, just smarter pixels to fool the eye.
 
I have seen a Mitsubishi Diamond, Toshiba and three diffrent Samsung RPTVs all with xHD4s...

Not impressed....

I have heard great things about the HP, though< and that also has an xHD4 DMD......gotta see it for myself though....
 
Kleegamefan said:
Sony Qualia 004 R2

JVC HD-ILA Pro models and the HD-XXFH96 series

Sony "Ruby" VPL VW100(accepts 1080p/60fps)

Panasonic TH-50PX500 Plasma

Panasonic TH-65PX500 Plasma


All can accept 1080p sources via HDMI and the Samsung rep (link in this thread) also stated 2006 Model DLPs will also accept 1080p via HDMI...and more products are sure to be announced at CES in two weeks...

apart from the fucking insane ruby, any others taking 1080p/60?

Its basically a dormant format. No proper ATSC classification, and no support by the bluray guys (they are fine with 1080p/24/30). The only thing driving this is PS3, and I don't see it getting that much traction.


I look forward to the 60fps guys really having some good arguments against the 1080p guys.

"but its 3x the pixels!"

"But its half the frame rate"

"But its 3x the detail"

repeat to fade...
 
svenuce said:
The HP DLPs do 1080p at 60hz over HDMI alledgedly... the components on the set only do 24 or 30 hz though.

Are you sure??

I thought the HP was 1080p/24 and 1080p/30 over HDMI only....


EDIT: Oh snap!!:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=592933

All models have the following inputs:

2 HDMI (480i/p, 720p, 1080i/p*)
2 Component (480i/p, 720p, 1080i/p**)
1 VGA (480i/p, 720p, 1080i/p***)
1 USB
1 Serial
3 Composite/Svideo
2 Cable
1 CableCard
5 Analog RCA Audio

* Supports 24, 30 and 60fps.
** Supports 24, and 30fps.
*** Supports 24, and 30fps but we have heard that the maximum resolution is 1280x1024p60


All models have the following outputs:
1 Analog RCA Audio out
1 Digital Coaxial Audio out (configurable)

Questions to answer:

1) Do the HDMI inputs actually support 1080p as documented?
We have confirmation that the ATI 9800 All-in-Wonder will display 1080p at 60 fps to the set.


This is just like the Ruby, except the HPs are less than half the price of the Sony!!!

Although the HPs are wobulated xHD4 sets, I have heard great things about them and I can see why!!!

This set is basically a 2006-spec HDTV you can buy today...expect most if not all 1080p products announced at CES to support 1080p 24fps and 30fps at minimum...
 
conker said:
Sitting in front of my 19 inch monitor at 1600 by 1200, I can distinguish individual pixels.

Jesus, you have great eyesight, i have to look really hard to notice them. And I am wearing glasses. @_@
 
I'm ordering the 65" HP probably in the next week or so (need to spend some business dollars as an expense before uncle sam takes em anyway). Might as well be on some "tools of the trade".
 
svenuce said:
I'm ordering the 65" HP probably in the next week or so (need to spend some business dollars as an expense before uncle sam takes em anyway). Might as well be on some "tools of the trade".
I take it you have done your homework for this purchase. Have you seen the picture in person? It is getting decent reviews, and I might have to start looking at the HP. Especially for those sexy, sexy inputs. Mmmm. Inputs.
 
I just want proper fucking antialiasing in my games with next gen. The xbox 360 is jaggy city so far, which worries me, and puts me off getting a 360 immediately.

My new TV supports 720p, and it'll be fine for this gen. With the PS4, etc, I'll give 1080p a consideration.
 
dock UK said:
I just want proper fucking antialiasing in my games with next gen. The xbox 360 is jaggy city so far, which worries me, and puts me off getting a 360 immediately.

My new TV supports 720p, and it'll be fine for this gen. With the PS4, etc, I'll give 1080p a consideration.


Xenos/C1 handles Antialiasing totally diffrent from the ATI x800 cards that were in Alpha X360 dev kits...

With a normal PC card, AA is a feature that you can toggle on or off to get results but X360 developers couldn't do this with launch games because they didn't recieve Beta X360 kits (the ones with Xenos/C1s in them) until August 2005...

To do 2X(or better) AA @ 720p res or better on Xenos/C1 hardware, tiling must be supported by the game engine because it won't fit in the 10MB eDRAM framebuffer *at that resolution*


HOWEVER

Bizzare Creations found a way around this by rendering PGR3 at 600p with AA and this fits in the frame buffer just fine even without tiling.....so PGR3 has AA but other launch games do not...

Games made from scratch on Beta X360 or better dev kits should have AA+720p res no problem
 
Kleegamefan said:
Xenos/C1 handles Antialiasing totally diffrent from the ATI x800 cards that were in Alpha X360 dev kits...

With a normal PC card, AA is a feature that you can toggle on or off to get results but X360 developers couldn't do this with launch games because they didn't recieve Beta X360 kits (the ones with Xenos/C1s in them) until August 2005...

To do 2X(or better) AA @ 720p res or better on Xenos/C1 hardware, tiling must be supported by the game engine because it won't fit in the 10MB eDRAM framebuffer *at that resolution*


HOWEVER

Bizzare Creations found a way around this by rendering PGR3 at 600p with AA and this fits in the frame buffer just fine even without tiling.....so PGR3 has AA but other launch games do not...

Games made from scratch on Beta X360 or better dev kits should have AA+720p res no problem


Interesting... thanks for posting.
 
Okay quick question is 720p = 1024x768 and 1080i = 1280x1024 ?? Sorry wish xbox would just list to switch to 720p not exact resolutions =)
 
Somnia said:
Okay quick question is 720p = 1024x768 and 1080i = 1280x1024 ?? Sorry wish xbox would just list to switch to 720p not exact resolutions =)

720p = 1280x720 progressive
1080i = 1920x1080 interlaced
 
Have you seen the picture in person? It is getting decent reviews, and I might have to start looking at the HP. Especially for those sexy, sexy inputs. Mmmm. Inputs.

I saw it for the first time yesterday at a Goodguys. Magnolia didn't have any on the floor but said they could order one for me... nice of them.

I take anything/everything on a show floor with a grain of salt as those sets are typically about as mis-calibrated as you could possibly get and source material signals that are split 20X over 20 sets.

With those considerations in mind, what I saw was at least as good as my current 56" Sammy DLP. Obviously there were no 1080p sources to test so it has to be left to the imagination in that respect.

As for the inputs panel on the front, it has to be one of the most obvious "Jesus, why hasn't anyone else done that before" improvements in TV industrial design ever. Truly a stroke of genius that's at least 10 years overdue.

The wife and I are still talking about it. She has a friend at HP so we could probably swing some sort of employee discount too if we decide to go for it.
 
I saw the 1080p Toshi (56HM195) sitting next to the 60" SXRD recently at Sears, and was impressed by both sets. The SXRD's are nice sets, but not ~$2K better.

Not even close.

OTOH, I don't know how either set was calibrated- if it all. The only way to really tell, would be to see both sets properly tweaked, with your own eyes, in a standardized/averaged viewing environment.
 
Seems that i'm not the only one who thinks going to 1080p is a waste of time.

A series of tests conducted by the BBC revealed that the median viewing distance for a large flat screen in the home would be about 2.7 meters (8.9 feet), a number remarkably similar to the one the BBC measured 15 years ago, and to the RCA Labs Lechner Distance. Further tests on perceived detail led to the conclusion that 720p/50 would saturate the eye with detail for screens up to 50 inches at the representative viewing distance. 1080p/50 would, then, provide more detail than necessary for the screen sizes and viewing distances that would probably exist in European homes.

I'm sure the bbc know what they're doing...

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/Tech-Corner/f_EBU_likes_progressive.shtml
 
cyberheater said:
Seems that i'm not the only one who thinks going to 1080p is a waste of time.



I'm sure the bbc know what they're doing...

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/Tech-Corner/f_EBU_likes_progressive.shtml



Yes, we went through that. Then the PC guys screwed things up by talking about jaggies even though they probably aren't viewing their monitors from 6ft away.


It is still my opinion that 720p is fine for average sized TVs at a normal viewing distance. 1080p will be best for front projection (and very large other TVs)
 
mrklaw said:
It is still my opinion that 720p is fine for average sized TVs at a normal viewing distance. 1080p will be best for front projection (and very large other TVs)

I agree with this also. I currently have a 27" Samsung HDTV sitting right next to me, and I know 1080p wouldn't benefit it. But I have a 60" Sony HDTV in the living room and I KNOW there will be a difference when viewing 720p vs 1080p content on it.

Calling 1080p worthless is funny.
 
BlueTsunami said:
I agree with this also. I currently have a 27" Samsung HDTV sitting right next to me, and I know 1080p wouldn't benefit it. But I have a 60" Sony HDTV in the living room and I KNOW there will be a difference when viewing 720p vs 1080p content on it.

Calling 1080p worthless is funny.

That's because you don't know the science of it. As far as I can tell, when viewing hi-def sources at recommended viewing distances, the human eye cannot tell the difference. Hence the comment that it's just not worth the money.

Now it may be that gamers will sit a lot closer to the TV's to play but studies have shown that the average gamer will sit on the couch which is going to be 2-3metres from the TV. At that distance, you'll not able to tell the difference.

BTW. How do you "KNOW". Or are you guessing...
 
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