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[Bobby Roberts]

Rocky over All the President's Men, Network, AND Taxi Driver has to be the greatest collective Oscar snub of all time.

Actually, that sort of tendency to reward the feel-good over most every other thing bodes VERY well for Silver Linings.

 

[Diprosalic]

DDL is as close to a lock as you're going to get now. He's been dominating the awards up to this point, and the amount of love Lincoln's gotten in the nominations reaffirms that he's practically assured the win.

DDL had that award on lock as soon as it was announced that he will play Lincoln. i remember most people calling it that day.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

Rocky over All the President's Men, Network, AND Taxi Driver has to be the greatest collective Oscar snub of all time.

Don't know if it's the biggest, but it's definitely up there.

 

[GremlinFool]

Why's it gotta be "avant-garde?" What the fuck would that even mean in this context? Are you just stringing syllables together in attempt to mock me for an opinion you find ridiculous on its face?

You could ask Sculli the same question as to whether he can substantiate that more people still regard the film with some measure of lasting, long-term respect. It'd probably be just as hard, since we're both (I'd imagine) basing this idea off the multitudes of conversations we've had, on-and-offline, with film fans who are passionate enough about movies to actually GIVE a shit about who won best picture in what year and what the legacies of those movies might be.

Can you substantiate the idea that this shit can be substantiated in a thread that's entirely about people trying to predict or make sense of a group of thousands of voters as if they're a hive-mind whose decisions can be anticipated and understood?

We're all bullshitting to some degree or another.

ANYWAY:

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/the-5-worst-best-picture-oscar-line-ups-of-all-time

http://movies.about.com/od/toppicks/tp/worst-best-picture-winners.htm

http://blog.moviefone.com/oscars-academy-awards/worst-best-picture-winners/

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/CB-Top-5-Worst-Oscar-Winners-7918.html

I literally gave you the two biggest and most respected aggregates of public/critical opinion on American Beauty, not four blogposts.

You're tossing out exhaustive claims about something that's VERY EASILY falsifiable: aggregate polling in the modern age gives a sufficiently accurate sense of popular opinion about a movie. Your statement is VERY easily disproven:
"I'm speaking precisely of movie aficionados. It's forgotten (and not all that highly regarded) by more than a few of them."

These same aficionados buoyed the film to rarefied company. Finishing in the top 100 on Empire's list from 2008, for instance, demonstrates very simply that the movie hasn't been "forgotten." Using the metrics available to us, your statement was patently false.

While we can't necessarily gauge the opinion of EVERY film critic definitively about how much they've "forgotten" American Beauty, the evidence available to us demonstrates everything to the contrary of your fatuous (and frankly, pointless) post.

Now, if you want to discuss the merits of American Beauty as a film, I'm game. Please refrain from touting (wrong) opinions as the be all end all.

 

[jtb]

Actually, that sort of tendency to reward the feel-good over most every other thing bodes VERY well for Silver Linings.

You don't get much more feel good than honest Abe! Plus, Silver Linings aint got shit on Rocky.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I literally gave you the two biggest and most respected aggregates of public/critical opinion on American Beauty, not four blogposts.

Obviously, the post I responded to wasn't edited by you when I quoted it. Don't act like I ignored it or something. It literally wasn't there when I hit post. I just now had to scroll back to see you'd added to it.

As for the rest of your argument - for the THIRD time, I said I don't think it's a bad movie. I think it's one of the weakest Best Picture winners in quite awhile. I've had myriad conversations with LOTS of people and upon being asked by you to quantify this shit, I did a quick google search and came up with four articles referencing American Beauty in precisely the same manner, REALLY quickly. Your response is a magazine poll. Okay. Now what.

At least now you're using words like "fatuous" correctly.

 

[Feature]

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this, skyfall best action WTF hahahahahahaha

Also, is this zero dark thirty that good of a film?

 

[GremlinFool]

Obviously, the post I responded to wasn't edited by you when I quoted it. Don't act like I ignored it or something. It literally wasn't there when I hit post. I just now had to scroll back to see you'd added to it.

As for the rest of your argument - for the THIRD time, I said I don't think it's a bad movie. I think it's one of the weakest Best Picture winners in quite awhile. I've had myriad conversations with LOTS of people and upon being asked by you to quantify this shit, I did a quick google search and came up with four articles referencing American Beauty in precisely the same manner, REALLY quickly. Your response is a magazine poll. Okay. Now what.

At least now you're using words like "fatuous" correctly.

You claimed that American Beauty was instantly forgotten by moviegoers upon winning Best Picture. By whom, exactly?

You made a totalizing, bullshit claim that's completely wrong. Now what? Now you think twice for making ridiculous claims not grounded in existing empirical evidence.

 

[jtb]

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this, skyfall best action WTF hahahahahahaha

Also, is this zero dark thirty that good of a film?

Nope! I was delighted to see her and Hooper miss out on directing nominations.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

BTW, here's what happens when I click the 2 under the 2nd o in "Google" when I search "Worst Best Picture"

http://www.filmcomment.com/entry/film-comments-trivial-top-20-worst-winners-of-best-picture-oscars

http://www.sfgate.com/news/slideshow/Oscars-That-Should-Never-Have-Happened-Best-37055.php

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/least-deserving-oscar-winners-and-snubs

http://www.filmsite.org/worstoscars.html

http://eddieonfilm.blogspot.com/2006/04/and-losers-are.html

Now, if you wanna hold Empire magazine up as a bastion of critical analysis and industry respect, okay. You wanna cling to that one poll from 2008, okay. But you have to admit, on some level, that there might be something to the idea American Beauty isn't regarded as a very good entrant into the pantheon of Best Picture winners, if such a cursory search of the phrase "Worst Best Picture" turns up this many articles making sure to mention it. Hell, *I* didn't know there'd be that many when I searched it.

Nobody's ranking it as THE worst, at least. Nor should they.

Now, if you wanna continue to take my conversational forum posts as if I believe I'm passing down manna from the gods in the form of film wisdom, you go right ahead. You'd be silly to do so, as even I recognize I'm just shooting the shit on a gaming forum, and I'm wrong just as often as I'm right, and I make it a point to admit it, and apologize when it happens. But the way you're coming at me is fucking ridiculous. We're talking about American Beauty, man.

 

[lazybones18]

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this, skyfall best action WTF hahahahahahaha

Also, is this zero dark thirty that good of a film?

Yes. Go see that shit

 

[jtb]

BTW, here's what happens when I click the 2 under the 2nd o in "Google" when I search "Worst Best Picture"

http://www.filmcomment.com/entry/film-comments-trivial-top-20-worst-winners-of-best-picture-oscars

http://www.sfgate.com/news/slideshow/Oscars-That-Should-Never-Have-Happened-Best-37055.php

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/least-deserving-oscar-winners-and-snubs

http://www.filmsite.org/worstoscars.html

http://eddieonfilm.blogspot.com/2006/04/and-losers-are.html

Was Ghandi really that bad of a film? It's been years since I've seen it, but I remember being pretty impressed with it when I first saw it. Or is it just the whole "it beat ET" thing.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Was Ghandi really that bad of a film? It's been years since I've seen it, but I remember being pretty impressed with it when I first saw it. Or is it just the whole "it beat ET" thing.

I don't think Ghandi was that bad a film at all. It's got pacing problems, most definitely.

It might have something to do with the "It beat ET" thing. There's a whole generation of people who grew up hating Annie Hall simply because it beat Star Wars for Best Picture.

And then those people entered an adult relationship for the first time and they realized "OH SHIT, maybe there's something to this Annie Hall movie..."

 

[Feature]

I saw django last night and I loved it. Wouldn't have been surprised if it got some oscars. The acting was really superb and the movie overall was very enjoyable.

 

[Steelyuhas]

The ending to Lincoln is terrible. Really bad. But on the other hand, lots of very good movies have terrible endings. Watch the ending to Psycho sometime! The advantage of the Lincoln ending, at least, is that it's short.

Yeah, I think if the last two scenes aren't in the film, you have a pretty solid ending as well, they just needed to be cut.

Spoiler

The shot of him walking down the hallway being the end of the film, much better I think.

Still an excellent film in my opinion.

Shakespeare in Love deserved that Oscar and we all know it.

edit: and am I the only person who didn't particularly like Toy Story 3? Dull rehash of the first two movies and shameless in its sentimentality in a way the first two never were.

Nah, I feel you on that. Not that is wasn't good, but I didn't quite get what made it so amazing to people, I don't know, maybe I should watch it again.

The Social Network was my favorite of the nominees that year by a long shot though.

 

[lazybones18]

Was Ghandi really that bad of a film? It's been years since I've seen it, but I remember being pretty impressed with it when I first saw it. Or is it just the whole "it beat ET" thing.

Gandhi is very good. Don't understand the whole "beat E.T." nonsense either

 

[Laughing Banana]

Anthony Hopkins throwing a dig at Daniel Day Lewis was great, hahahah.

 

[Pkaz01]

Can't believe The Departed won best picture in 2006.. that movie is terribly overrated.

and to throw salt in the wound Pan's Labyrinth wasn't even nominated that year.. wtf?

 

[Messofanego]

edit: and am I the only person who didn't particularly like Toy Story 3? Dull rehash of the first two movies and shameless in its sentimentality in a way the first two never were.

No you aren't, but people excuse it for the great ending. Even the new characters were rehashes which is not something I expect from Pixar, but then their output since Incredibles has bored me.

 

[Messofanego]

Quvenzhane Wallis is hard to say

haha

 

[Violet_0]

Quvenzhane Wallis is hard to say

haha

I still can't comprehend why she was nominated. She was 5 when they casted her, what acting range can you expect from a 5 or 6 or 7-yo kid? All she does is starring into the camera angrily, that's an Oscar-worthy performance? If any actor from Beasts deserves an nomination, it's Dwight Henry

 

[overcast]

Pretty shocked at Tarantino not being nominated. I've seen almost all of the BP nominees, would say Life of Pi is my favorite of the bunch. (Need to see ZDT, Lincoln, and SLP). Phoenix is my choice for best actor, but there is no way in hell he wins against DDL (or even Cooper). For cinematography I am really rooting for Pi. I love TDKR, but anybody who thought it would be nominated was kidding themselves. Best blockbuster of the year though.

Wreck it Ralph will 100% win best animated feature. Either that or ParaNorman deserve it.

 

[BowieZ]

So who of the greats is winning Best Supporting Actor?

Tommy Lee Jones in a Lincoln sweep?
Phillip Seymour Hoffman in a Master sympathy vote?
Christoph Waltz cuz he's the exotic foreign choice?
Robert de Niro cuz Robert de Niro?
Alan Arkin cuz his name's first on the ballot?

 

[Eidan]

Rocky over All the President's Men, Network, AND Taxi Driver has to be the greatest collective Oscar snub of all time.

It was a good year, and Rocky is a classic (as are all the others). I have no problem with it winning.

 

[strafer]

The Thin Red Line.

Robbed like a motherfucker

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

I find it funny when people say Star Wars was robbed. Annie Hall was the rightful winner that year.

 

[Eidan]

I still remember how pissed fans of Brokeback Mountain were when Crash won. They're still reeling today.

Spoiler

Good Night, and Good Luck should have beaten both.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

I still remember how pissed fans of Brokeback Mountain were when Crash won. They're still reeling today.

Spoiler

Good Night, and Good Luck should have beaten both.

I'm one of them!

 

[Expendable.]

It's weird to me. I never think there are true upsets since Oscars almost always go with the more crowdpleasing, unchallenging film. Just see the last few year. I think NCFOM was the last one that was bit of a surprise in terms of their usual choices.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Tarantino needs to win an oscar/academy award already. No one else is able to have any actor give a great performance so consistently, and make any scene interesting regardless of how mundane it is. I think people don't realize how good he is. They think of movies he makes rather than what he himself manages to do as a director.

 

[Speevy]

Tarantino needs to win an oscar/academy award already. No one else is able to have any actor give a great performance so consistently, and make any scene interesting regardless of how mundane it is. I think people don't realize how good he is. They think of movies he makes rather than what he himself manages to do as a director.

Django Unchained is not the film that should win Tarantino an Oscar.

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

American Beauty is a damn good film, but The Insider rapes his fucking ass. Cider House Rules winning adaptated screenplay over Insider is MUCH worse than AB winning Best Picture.

No it's not.

That's what I'm calling for this year. He gets picture/director, Kushner gets screenplay, Day-Lewis gets actor. And then Spielberg is done until they give him the Thalberg when he's old and retired.

Oddly enough, Spielberg already have a Thalberg.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

American Beauty is a damn good film, but The Insider rapes his fucking ass. Cider House Rules winning adaptated screenplay over Insider is MUCH worse than AB winning Best Picture.


Oddly enough, Spielberg already have a Thalberg.

No shit, really?

Damn. Apologies.

Maybe he'll get the Double Thalberg. With a Lindy.

 

[TheKaeptain]

I still can't comprehend why she was nominated. She was 5 when they casted her, what acting range can you expect from a 5 or 6 or 7-yo kid? All she does is starring into the camera angrily, that's an Oscar-worthy performance? If any actor from Beasts deserves an nomination, it's Dwight Henry

Well Jessica Chastain and Amy Adams are both nominated for doing the same thing... so yeah.

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

No shit, really?

Damn. Apologies.

Maybe he'll get the Double Thalberg. With a Lindy.

No need to apologize, dude

He will get an honorary oscar one day. I'm pretty sure about that.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I still remember how pissed fans of Brokeback Mountain were when Crash won. They're still reeling today.

Spoiler

Good Night, and Good Luck should have beaten both.

Nope. Munich.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

Nope. Munich.

But Munich had little chance as the ceremony progressed (I hadn't watched at the time either). When BBM got Director I thought it was a sealed deal.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

But Munich had little chance as the ceremony progressed (I hadn't watched at the time either). When BBM got Director I thought it was a sealed deal.

Not about chances. It's about Munich.

 

[overcast]

Django Unchained is not the film that should win Tarantino an Oscar.

Actually I agree. Loved Django, but I feel as if his Oscar movie is coming. (Pulp Fiction was it first).

 

[strafer]

Munich didn't win any? That's fucked up.

 

[Diprosalic]

Actually I agree. Loved Django, but I feel as if his Oscar movie is coming. (Pulp Fiction was it first).

IB 2nd. i agree that django shouldn't win it tho.

 

[Kikujiro]

The Oscar history is full of undeserved winners, from movies to directors. Hitchcock, Kubrick and Altman (just to name a few) never got an Oscar for their directing, while Bigelow won it for the fucking awful The Hurt Locker. Oscars are worth for their marketing value, nothing more, if you're a great director you will be remembered in movie books regardless of winning it. In a right world Synecdoche, New York should've sweeped the Oscar in 2009, instead fucking Slumdog Millionaire won.

And I never understood the love for Munich, movie was just ok and my god the sex scene was so bad.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

The Oscar history is full of undeserved winners, from movies to directors. Hitchcock, Kubrick and Altman (just to name a few) never got an Oscar for their directing, while Bigelow won it for the fucking awful The Hurt Locker. Oscars are worth for their marketing value, nothing more, if you're a great director you will be remembered in movie books regardless of winning it. In a right world Synecdoche, New York should've sweeped the Oscar in 2009, instead fucking Slumdog Millionaire won.

And I never understood the love for Munich, movie was just ok and my god the sex scene was so bad.

I understand the sentiment and mostly agree with it, we all know all the fuck ups the Academy has had, and that they matter little when it comes to quality and lasting significance. Also, while I like Synecdoche, New York, I don't it should have won anything; and The Hurt Locker is a very good movie! Winning doesn't somehow make it shit.

Munich is great, you mean to tell me you don't have similar images in your head while having sex?!!!

 

[Cheebo]

Actually, that sort of tendency to reward the feel-good over most every other thing bodes VERY well for Silver Linings.

Lincoln is very much a feel-good movie. It has the most nominations, a historical biopic, by a beloved film maker, starring a beloved actor, and a feel-good oscar bait film. There is a reason why Lincoln is the undisputed frontrunner right now.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I still can't comprehend why she was nominated. She was 5 when they casted her, what acting range can you expect from a 5 or 6 or 7-yo kid? All she does is starring into the camera angrily, that's an Oscar-worthy performance? If any actor from Beasts deserves an nomination, it's Dwight Henry

I agree with that somewhat. She doesn't do a whole lot in the film. Her voice over performance is well done, but on screen she's a little less compelling; her scream is memorable and her angry stares are pretty good, but I'm just not sure if it's an Oscar worthy performance, or even if it's much of a performance at all.

 

[Draconian]

I still can't comprehend why she was nominated. She was 5 when they casted her, what acting range can you expect from a 5 or 6 or 7-yo kid? All she does is starring into the camera angrily, that's an Oscar-worthy performance? If any actor from Beasts deserves an nomination, it's Dwight Henry

Probably so they could have the oldest and the youngest nominees ever in the same year. Yeah, I'm cynical like that.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

Probably so they could have the oldest and the youngest nominees ever in the same year. Yeah, I'm cynical like that.

I feel that may be the case. I think the Academy like doing stuff like that.

 

[Kikujiro]

I understand the sentiment and mostly agree with it, we all know all the fuck ups the Academy has had, and that they matter little when it comes to quality and lasting significance. Also, while I like Synecdoche, New York, I don't it should have won anything; and The Hurt Locker is a very good movie! Winning doesn't somehow make it shit.

Munich is great, you mean to tell me you don't have similar images in your head while having sex?!!!

Hopefully never!

That scene almost killed the entire movie for me, the editing, the music, it was so dramatically heavy-handed it felt like a parody.
Man, don't let me start on The Hurt Locker, that movie winning was as worse as Crash.
In the end I really don't care about the Academy Awards, it's just that sometime it's nice to see a great movie recognized by the mainstream media since it rarely happens.

 

[WyndhamPrice]

Probably so they could have the oldest and the youngest nominees ever in the same year. Yeah, I'm cynical like that.

You realize the Academy is not some cabal of like a dozen people with an agenda, right? It's thousands of people in the industry who vote.

Beasts was a popular film in the industry when it was released and Wallis was singled out immediately for her work. It resonated enough and carried enough support since Sundance (a year ago). It's nothing but genuine appreciation.

Be cynical when legitimately bad, manipulative films like Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close get in because producers like Scott Rudin gladhanded enough people at the end of last year to make a difference (and ironically blocking Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, which he also produced and is a superior film, from getting in), not when people sincerely like a film (and the performances therein).

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

Man, don't let me start on The Hurt Locker, that movie winning was as worse as Crash.

Come on.

In the end I really don't care about the Academy Awards, it's just that sometime it's nice to see a great movie recognized by the mainstream media since it rarely happens.

I don't think you'll find many people really into movies who'll take them too seriously or think that their choices are the best anyways, but their fun to discuss. At least I get a kick out of it.