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[Akselziys]

Hey Aksys dudes, can we get more Clover sprite rip love?

Like the scene towards the end of the true ending where she's running up the stairs. You can leave the other guy out, of course.

Clover should be careful walking up stairs!

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

My GOD! The answers to some of these questions are just *_*

Uchikoshi was super kind to have answered all these the way he did. It's like having a source book come out for the game :3 Really awesome stuff!

Can't wait for all of you to read the answers!

Spoiler

Time to get HYPE!

! So when are these answers getting posted?

 

[Akselziys]

! So when are these answers getting posted?

The translation was finished today. So after Belisarius edits them and we set up a webpage, front page post, bells and whistles, etc., we'll have it up for you all.

Maybe by tomorrow afternoon? If not, sometime early next week

Such awesome information

Spoiler

that Japan wasn't privy to :x

<3 Kotaro Uchikoshi

 

[LiK]

We get to see who wrote the questions? :3

 

[spindashing]

Motherfucking hype! Can't wait for the Q&A!

 

[Akselziys]

We get to see who wrote the questions? :3

Perhaps~

 

[Hours Left]

Excited for the Q&A!

 

[Crazymoogle]

Jumping in late as I only just finished all of the endings. Wow, what a great game!

(trudged through all of the posts, I found a couple that didn't seem to be answered?)

Time loops, stable or not, are paradoxes. We can't determine a starting point, so it's definitely a paradox.

Absolutely, but the argument given by the game is the patched sock - rather than being a definitive link between the original past and original future, it's more or less a future that keeps being updated.

That being said I think my brain thinks of time travel as specifically either the "Chrono Trigger" or "Primer" methods only...

It's stated that Akane is a transmitter, but there's no reason Junpei would have had the Gantzfeld test to determine which category he fell into as he wasn't part of the first Nonary Game.

But...didn't Junpei need to see the dog in the picture frame in order to get the true ending? Wouldn't this be an example of him being a receiver? (could be mistaken here...)

 

[XiaNaphryz]

But...didn't Junpei need to see the dog in the picture frame in order to get the true ending? Wouldn't this be an example of him being a receiver? (could be mistaken here...)

The surviving players + Seven from the first game knew Junpei was a receiver because he ended up saving Akane. No need for him to take a test.

 

[Belisarius]

Just thought I'd post a link to this article, which I read a bit ago. It talks about closed timelike curves and paradoxes, which seems apropos to many of the discussions in this thread.

An excerpt:

Do closed timelike curves necessarily lead to paradoxes?

If they do, then they cannot exist, simple as that. Logical contradictions cannot occur. More specifically, there is only one correct answer to the question “What happened at the vicinity of this particular event in space-time?” Something happens: You walk through a door, you are all by yourself, you meet someone else, you somehow never showed up, whatever it may be. And that something is whatever it is, and was whatever it was, and will be whatever it will be, once and forever. If, at a certain event, your grandfather and grandmother were getting it on, that’s what happened at that event. There is nothing you can do to change it, because it happened. You can no more change events in your past in a space-time with closed timelike curves than you can change events that already happened in ordinary space-time, with no closed timelike curves.

As we will see, the time travel paradox—the possibility of changing our past—seems intractable only because it conflicts with our notion of ourselves as beings with free will. Consistent stories are possible, even in space-times with closed timelike curves.

Time loops, stable or not, are paradoxes. We can't determine a starting point, so it's definitely a paradox.

A "loop" isn't necessarily a paradox, it just seems to be one, given the way we perceive time and our belief in free will. The article I've linked to gives the following example:

To illustrate this point, imagine that you stumble upon a time machine in the form of a gate. When you pass through it in one direction, it takes you exactly one day into the past; if you pass through in the other direction, it takes you exactly one day into the future. You walk up to the gate, where you see an older version of yourself waiting for you. The two of you exchange pleasantries. Then you leave your other self behind as you walk through the gate into yesterday. But instead of obstinately wandering off, you wait around a day to meet up with the younger version of yourself (you have now aged into the older version you saw the day before) with whom you exchange pleasantries before going on your way. Everyone’s version of every event would be completely consistent.

That situation fits the definition of a "loop", but there's no paradox.

 

[Crash Station]

All right, I guess walking up to yourself and waiting around for yourself isn't really a paradox. The situation is kind of different though. Akane was able to contact someone in a future that should not exist because it is reliant on her survival. Since she can't survive without Junpei's help, she should not have survived at all since she couldn't set up the game to lead to her survival without surviving the first time around. It's a paradox not because someone went back in time and messed things up but rather because there is no way to start the loop without it already having started.

Time travel hurts my head :/

 

[ZealousD]

All right, I guess walking up to yourself and waiting around for yourself isn't really a paradox. The situation is kind of different though. Akane was able to contact someone in a future that should not exist because it is reliant on her survival. Since she can't survive without Junpei's help, she should not have survived at all since she couldn't set up the game to lead to her survival without surviving the first time around. It's a paradox not because someone went back in time and messed things up but rather because there is no way to start the loop without it already having started.

Time travel hurts my head :/

What if time is cyclical and thus the need for a loop to "start" is irrelevant?

 

[Crash Station]

What if time is cyclical and thus the need for a loop to "start" is irrelevant?

Well then I have no argument

 

[Belisarius]

All right, I guess walking up to yourself and waiting around for yourself isn't really a paradox. The situation is kind of different though. Akane was able to contact someone in a future that should not exist because it is reliant on her survival. Since she can't survive without Junpei's help, she should not have survived at all since she couldn't set up the game to lead to her survival without surviving the first time around. It's a paradox not because someone went back in time and messed things up but rather because there is no way to start the loop without it already having started.

Time travel hurts my head :/

You're still looking at it in a really linear way. The way I'd interpret it is that it happened the way it did (Junpei saved Akane in the past) because that is what happened/happens. Nobody questions that their birth happened (they're living proof of it), and this is the same sort of thing: A event that happened.

There was an article I read (I can't remember if it's this one or another one) that suggests that more or less what we think of as the laws of the universe would get "weird" as you approached events that would cause the "correct" flow of time to deviate. The simple example would be something like if you tried to go back in time and shoot your grandfather, the gun would misfire, or you would miss. If you tried to stab him, you might experience a sudden cramp, or if things got really weird, your knife would simply cease to exist the moment it entered his body. These events might be statistically unlikely, but they aren't, technically, "impossible".

I interpret the situation with Akane and Junpei as something similar to that: As you approach an sequence of events that would cause the "correct" flow of time to deviate, things start to get weird. You push them too far, and shit gets really weird and time sort of resets itself.

Unfortunately, that doesn't really explain how Junpei/Akane "remember" things that happened in previous playthroughs. I'll have to think on that one a bit.

 

[AniHawk]

All right, I guess walking up to yourself and waiting around for yourself isn't really a paradox. The situation is kind of different though. Akane was able to contact someone in a future that should not exist because it is reliant on her survival. Since she can't survive without Junpei's help, she should not have survived at all since she couldn't set up the game to lead to her survival without surviving the first time around. It's a paradox not because someone went back in time and messed things up but rather because there is no way to start the loop without it already having started.

Time travel hurts my head :/

I think they only way they sorta get away with that bullshit is because they mention Futility and the Titanic.

Although reading up on the ship in Futility was actually called the Titan (even in the 1898 version) was pretty creepy. And some details were pretty close- referring to the original (the 1912 or 1914 version that Junpei mentioned was altered).

 

[devastatorprime]

Hey Akselziys since you posted a few CGs already can we get one of Seven, Junpei, Snake, Lotus, and Clover as they step outside at the end of the game?

 

[mrklaw]

The whole past Akane surviving because of what she does in the future reminded me of Bill and Ted. "Hey Akane, once I escape from this deadly incinerator, I'll totally set up a duplicate event in the future to get me out"

But who was that in the desert? Can't be akane, she was slight (woman at the end was more like Lotus) and wouldn't be standing in the desert with almost no clothes on.

And why did Junpei have no idea this had happened to Akane? I suppose she was one of the kids not reported in the paper, but did the kidnapping happen after they went to separate schools?

Are we assuming catch up with Akane and Santa eventually and everything is explained over a cup of coffee? I wonder what happened to Akane and Junpei. I'm sure Akane would want to be with him, but she's probably a bit mad now, having needed to set all this up again 9 years later - bit 12 monkeys. And Junpei would probably be a bit wary of her.

The Clover Axe ending felt like it fitted with the telepathy thing, with the description of you feeling all warm etc as she's looking at you, I thought she might be controlling me with her mind, freezing me on the spot so she can easily kill me.

Overall I loved the game, can't believe I replayed over and over, and despite the overly verbose text a lot of the time, I was pretty gripped throughout. Was this the ace attorney guys? What other games like this are recommended by you?

 

[LiK]

The whole past Akane surviving because of what she does in the future reminded me of Bill and Ted. "Hey Akane, once I escape from this deadly incinerator, I'll totally set up a duplicate event in the future to get me out"

But who was that in the desert? Can't be akane, she was slight (woman at the end was more like Lotus) and wouldn't be standing in the desert with almost no clothes on.

And why did Junpei have no idea this had happened to Akane? I suppose she was one of the kids not reported in the paper, but did the kidnapping happen after they went to separate schools?

Are we assuming catch up with Akane and Santa eventually and everything is explained over a cup of coffee? I wonder what happened to Akane and Junpei. I'm sure Akane would want to be with him, but she's probably a bit mad now, having needed to set all this up again 9 years later - bit 12 monkeys. And Junpei would probably be a bit wary of her.

Overall I loved the game, can't believe I replayed over and over, and despite the overly verbose text a lot of the time, I was pretty gripped throughout. Was this the ace attorney guys? What other games like this are recommended by you?

Alice and it might've been a joke by the devs.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

The Clover Axe ending felt like it fitted with the telepathy thing, with the description of you feeling all warm etc as she's looking at you, I thought she might be controlling me with her mind, freezing me on the spot so she can easily kill me.

Well, she was a transmitter in the first game, so it wouldn't be a surprise if that was the case.

 

[Korigama]

And why did Junpei have no idea this had happened to Akane? I suppose she was one of the kids not reported in the paper, but did the kidnapping happen after they went to separate schools?

It was indeed after the fact. Keep in mind that she already had the doll he gave her (the one she went back for before Hongou caught her and threw her into the incinerator) by the time she was kidnapped.

 

[mrklaw]

I don't see how it could be anything BUT perception. I know it's pseudoscience but it's not magic.

Seven's original story of the kids 9 years ago would plant enough of a seed that the incinerator is real and deadly, and the nonary game doesn't fuck about. In the real past the incinerator never went off, and neither does it in the present. So we don't know if it would have really gone off in either time.

 

[mrklaw]

Okay, read the thread.

At best it's a stable time loop. Regarding the murders though, I could maybe see if Aoi was the one who wanted those guys dead. Even then, Akane allowing that part to become part of the plan still makes her complicit in murder, not to mention Seven who is (or was) a cop. Another acceptable explanation is that Aoi could have pulled the murders from behind Akane and Seven's backs AFTER the plan had initiated, so once the bodies were found there was nothing she could do about it except play along.

On top of that, if the 9th man appears at the second Nonary game at all his death is pretty much inevitable. That early in they can't stop Ace from killing him without compromising the whole game. The only way to not have him die would be to not kidnap him in the first place. So maybe bringing him there does make Akane a murderer. Maybe Aoi also brought him in at the last minuite after Akane couldn't do anything about it.

If we go with that latter explanation, I could probably live with Akane were I in Junpei's position - all the manipulation was absolutely imperative for her own survival. If she was complicit/responsible for the murders, that is where I would draw the line.

I'm going to consider Aoi/Akane/Seven/Snake less manipulative than that. Perhaps all they knew was that Junpei needed to get to the final room to make the connection and save Akane. They were present, but needed additional people to make the numbers up, so they kidnapped Ace etc.

Ace kills [9] completely of his own volition with no encouragement or manipulation. He then kills who he thinks is snake, so you could consider that to be self-defense for snake. The Cap is an opportunity for both of them to be freed, so its only Ace's own sense of self preservation that makes him kill the Cap, to protect himself as the walls close in. I don't consider Akane/Aoi etc to be murderers at all. Zero's comments about 'making them pay' could just be about putting them in the same situation as they were 9 years ago, having them feel as frightened as they were.

 

[mrklaw]

It was indeed after the fact. Keep in mind that she already had the doll he gave her (the one she went back for before Hongou caught her and threw her into the incinerator) by the time she was kidnapped.

a voodoo doll too, and the whole hill scene with the 'just squeeze the doll and pray' or something, really nicely tied the two of them together.

They really are meant to be together. Crazy psycho bitch or not, Junpei will look after her.

 

[spindashing]

I remember Light/Snake commenting during the flashback that he had a sister in Nevada named Clover. So Clover's actual name is Clover? I wonder what Lotus and Seven's names are.

Edit: Also, doesn't "Aoi" in Japanese mean "Blue"? If so, that goes so well with June's Japanese nickname...

 

[LiK]

I remember Light/Snake commenting during the flashback that he had a sister in Nevada named Clover. So Clover's actual name is Clover? I wonder what Lotus and Seven's names are.

hope they answer that in the Q&A!

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Crazy psycho bitch or not

Which one? ;P

Though it sounds like either one would have their way with him anyway since he's primarily a receiver and they're the transmitters.

 

[Akselziys]

Yes, Clover's real name is Clover.

Also, translation of the questions is finished. Just got done reading them all and all I can say is... MIND = BLOWN *_*

So awesome! We're currently in the process of editing them and creating the site for them, so we should have them ready for you all sometime early next week

Stay tuned! <3

 

[abstract alien]

I feel more hype for this translation release than I do actual new games coming out...

 

[LiK]

Yes, Clover's real name is Clover.

Also, translation of the questions is finished. Just got done reading them all and all I can say is... MIND = BLOWN *_*

So awesome! We're currently in the process of editing them and creating the site for them, so we should have them ready for you all sometime early next week

Stay tuned! <3

my body is ready.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Yes, Clover's real name is Clover.

Also, translation of the questions is finished. Just got done reading them all and all I can say is... MIND = BLOWN *_*

So awesome! We're currently in the process of editing them and creating the site for them, so we should have them ready for you all sometime early next week

Stay tuned! <3

You better preface that page with "WARNING, MAJOR SPOILERS, SERIOUSLY FINISH THE GAME FIRST WITH ALL THE ENDINGS WE'RE WARNING YOU."

 

[Akselziys]

You better preface that page with "WARNING, MAJOR SPOILERS, SERIOUSLY FINISH THE GAME FIRST WITH ALL THE ENDINGS WE'RE WARNING YOU."

Already way ahead of you We made sure to create that first and foremost of course ;D

 

[LiK]

Already way ahead of you We made sure to create that first and foremost of course ;D

it's like those porno age gate splash pages right?

 

[Akselziys]

it's like those porno age gate splash pages right?

If you like Zero in your porn, then yes

Spoiler

haha jk

 

[LiK]

If you like Zero in your porn, then yes

Spoiler

haha jk

if June is under that mask, yes, i like it. huhu

 

[Akselziys]

OMG, these answers are so good not to talk about @_@

Can't wait for everyone to read and let the chatting commence :3

Spoiler

Sorry, I'm an uber 999 fanb0i XD;

 

[abstract alien]

if June is under that mask, yes, i like it. huhu

Its probably Alice or something

 

[Ferrio]

I would have to agree, she looks probably in her 40's, possibly late 30s, but I doubt that. I do wonder if the "Why was Lotus wearing those clothes?" question was one of the chosen ones for Chunsoft. I'm actually curious about that, but I have a theory.

Well I was suppose to submit asking if she was suppose to originally be Alice, but forgot to. I believe someone said that was submitted by someone else though.

 

[LiK]

Well I was suppose to submit asking if she was suppose to originally be Alice, but forgot to. I believe someone said that was submitted by someone else though.

i submitted a question about her outfit. hope it's answered.

 

[Akselziys]

Both of those are answered XD

 

[LiK]

Both of those are answered XD

hell yea.

 

[mrklaw]

This is one of the few games that really makes me wonder what happens to the characters afterwards. A sign of good writing I suppose.

I'm imagining that Seven wants to get it on with Lotus. He has a few reactions towards the end of the game in different endings that suggests he has feelings for her but is hiding them. He's quite harsh to her sometimes but he definitely has a soft spot for her.

But then if that is Alice on the road ahead, Lotus will have some competition, as she looks similar to lotus (at least from behind..) but is a princess, and seven has been obsessed with her. Maybe a catfight between the two over Seven. Heh, now I'm getting into fanfic territory..

 

[ShockingAlberto]

you know

That reminds me

When you're choosing your final door for most endings (1, 2, or 6, I think) and are voting for which door to take, there's an odd scene that seems really out of place.

Seven says something about not wanting to go with Lotus and she responds by withdrawing and her portrait glides across the screen, saying something like "Just you wait, I'll show you all..."

And it's this slow crawl across the screen with something really uncharacteristic about Lotus. She's not lashing out or arguing, she's saying something really foreboding.

Before I knew the story, that seemed ominous. After I finished the game and obviously didn't suspect Lotus for anything, the line makes no sense. In a game where almost every piece of dialogue is purposeful, that one line sticks out like a sore thumb because it seems to have no place. It's literally the only time she goes in to a Gollum-like deathwish mode and it ultimately meant nothing.

I can buy that maybe it was used to throw suspicion on her for future playthroughs, I guess, but that seems unlike the rest of the game, which didn't do things like that flagrantly.

 

[Akselziys]

This is one of the few games that really makes me wonder what happens to the characters afterwards. A sign of good writing I suppose.

I'm imagining that Seven wants to get it on with Lotus. He has a few reactions towards the end of the game in different endings that suggests he has feelings for her but is hiding them. He's quite harsh to her sometimes but he definitely has a soft spot for her.

But then if that is Alice on the road ahead, Lotus will have some competition, as she looks similar to lotus (at least from behind..) but is a princess, and seven has been obsessed with her. Maybe a catfight between the two over Seven. Heh, now I'm getting into fanfic territory..

What Uchikoshi said about the ending among other things will make everyone go :O

<3 <3 <3

Soon my friends, soon :3

 

[Hylian7]

Akselziys, I just want to say thank you for the artwork/scenes you've posted in this thread!

I'm not sure if it's been brought up already, but is it possible that "Cap" killed everyone in the sub ending, including Ace? It wouldn't be that farfetched. They said that Cap was still probably in a drug-induced stupor when Ace killed him if you went through door #1, but if you went through door #2, no one went through #1 and you got the sub ending. The time required for everyone to get through doors #2 and #6's puzzles would probably be enough time for Cap to realize where he was and escape himself. If the puzzles were the same as they were 9 years ago, then he probably new exactly what to do to get out of the room. We don't know if he used the axe on everyone or not, so either he did that, or got the 9th Man's knife from Ace somehow, or maybe even had one of his own (doubtful).

Thinking about it, it seems more and more likely that this is the case instead of Ace faking his death to get up and follow Junpei to stab him.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Akselziys, I just want to say thank you for the artwork/scenes you've posted in this thread!

I'm not sure if it's been brought up already, but is it possible that "Cap" killed everyone in the sub ending, including Ace? It wouldn't be that farfetched. They said that Cap was still probably in a drug-induced stupor when Ace killed him if you went through door #1, but if you went through door #2, no one went through #1 and you got the sub ending. The time required for everyone to get through doors #2 and #6's puzzles would probably be enough time for Cap to realize where he was and escape himself. If the puzzles were the same as they were 9 years ago, then he probably new exactly what to do to get out of the room. We don't know if he used the axe on everyone or not, so either he did that, or got the 9th Man's knife from Ace somehow, or maybe even had one of his own (doubtful).

Thinking about it, it seems more and more likely that this is the case instead of Ace faking his death to get up and follow Junpei to stab him.

I thought about this, too, but there are several problems.

One, like you said, Cap would have access to an axe, but getting the knife would be difficult. Had he used an axe to kill them, the scene would have been way different. Every time Junpei chooses Door 4, Ace picks up the pocket knife from Mr. 9's corpse. Cap somehow getting the pocket knife from a giant who is more than willing to kill him at a moment's notice while he's in a drug addled state seems...unlikely.

Second, everyone would be on guard with someone they've never seen before. He would have been wearing the Zero bracelet, Santa and June would have immediately known who he was, Ace wouldn't be able to tell but would be able to see the bracelet, and Clover would have thought Cap killed her brother. He would have had to have gotten the drop on at least three of them and killed them in quick succession, something that seems unlikely when he didn't even have the knife. Ace could quickly kill Santa and Clover before June noticed, a fifth person coming in and quickly killing three others and going after June doesn't make sense.

Third, June fled through the Jupiter (?) door and the killer followed behind her. The killer stabbed her, but she had not been bleeding for long when Junpei found her. Junpei, Lotus, and Seven followed an empty hallway through the Jupiter door to the submarine. Lotus and Seven waited outside the room June had been stabbed. So let's map this out here:

Grand staircase -|Jupiter|----Hallway----Room Before Sub|Dead June Room

Let's say Cap did it. He started at the Grand Staircase and killed three people quickly, then he chased June through the Jupiter door (again, not sure it was that symbol, but bear with me), through the empty hallway, through the room, in to the Submarine room where he stabbed her. Then, Junpei and crew follow the exact same path with no evidence of blood trails or anything and find June in the final room. After a few minutes with June, Junpei returns to the room outside where Lotus and Seven had been stabbed.

So assuming it was Cap, where could he have hidden? He couldn't have been in the sub room and left there to stab Lotus and Seven because Junpei would have noticed. They would have seen him in the grand staircase because, among other things, he had no reason to think another group was coming and there was nowhere there to hide.

Now, assuming Ace did it, he had the one place you could hide and commit these murders: in plain sight. He stabbed Santa and Clover, chased June to the Sub room, stabbed her, then faked his death on the grand staircase. After which, he stabbed Lotus and Seven by following them through the hallway, waited for Junpei in his addled state after being Seven and Lotus dead, and stabbed him above the sub.

There's also the fact that, if no one went through Cap's room, his doors were still locked since no one opened the pocketwatch door and no one opened the Base Ten door. If someone did go through his room, it would be in Ace's path, and Ace would have killed him.

 

[jaxword]

Seven says something about not wanting to go with Lotus and she responds by withdrawing and her portrait glides across the screen, saying something like "Just you wait, I'll show you all..."



Before I knew the story, that seemed ominous. After I finished the game and obviously didn't suspect Lotus for anything, the line makes no sense. In a game where almost every piece of dialogue is purposeful, that one line sticks out like a sore thumb because it seems to have no place. It's literally the only time she goes in to a Gollum-like deathwish mode and it ultimately meant nothing.

It was supposed to be a joke. Lotus reacts that way a lot when people bring up her age. Lotus also outright attacks people physically (mainly Seven) when they crack too many jokes about her.

Take the part where she's on the computer and Junpei accidentally calls her old, and her eyes go into this demonic blackness and he gets an "Oh CRAAAAP" expression on his face.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

I can't wait to hear the answers to these questions! It’s pretty amazing how much I'm looking forward to reading them...

I suppose that just goes to show you how much I liked the game and how highly I'd rate the story. Bring it on Akselziys!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It was supposed to be a joke. Lotus reacts that way a lot when people bring up her age. Lotus also outright attacks people physically (mainly Seven) when they crack too many jokes about her.

Take the part where she's on the computer and Junpei accidentally calls her old, and her eyes go into this demonic blackness and he gets an "Oh CRAAAAP" expression on his face.

Right, those I understand. That's a trope, an archtype, a middle-aged woman that sees red when someone talks about her age.

This wasn't that. It was in the middle of her attacking Seven comically, then she had that "hurt" look on her face and said "I'll show you all." It was weird and if it was meant as a joke, it was a pretty strong miss.

 

[jaxword]

Right, those I understand. That's a trope, an archtype, a middle-aged woman that sees red when someone talks about her age.

This wasn't that. It was in the middle of her attacking Seven comically, then she had that "hurt" look on her face and said "I'll show you all." It was weird and if it was meant as a joke, it was a pretty strong miss.

Eh, I got the joke on the spot. Not saying you're wrong, but by that point in the game I had gotten a good idea of Lotus' berserk button. It just seemed like a typical anime "cute character gets a demonic look when angry" moment.

 

[ITA84]

^ If it's true that Lotus was originally supposed to be Alice, then maybe that line was a leftover from that subplot: Alice is really quite old after all.