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[Chiggs]

****First off, if you're a woman-hating idiot, this totally badass thread is NOT for you, because I designed it to scare the fuck out of misogynistic internet trolls!****

Look, T2 is one of the greatest action movies ever created, and Robert Patrick is an incredible villain--one of the best of all time, easily. And I mean that. He's utterly menacing in a bland, artificial way...and that's meant as a glowing compliment, not a backhanded one.

But there's always been an aspect of Terminator 2 that has gnawed at me: The T-1000 shouldn't have been stronger than the T-800; it just doesn't make any sense. Smarter? Sure! Faster? Absolutely! More lethal? No question. But not stronger.

Here's why:

• The T-800 is a tank; it's a triple-armored hyper-alloy combat chassis.
  • You can read more about how fucking ridiculously powerful this thing is here.
  • It doesn't have to worry about shape-shifting and regeneration; it's a giant fucking hunk of metal with a super-smart CPU, and it's designed to kill.
• The T-1000 is all about mimicry; it's about stealth, surprise and speed.
  • It's an incredible piece of poly-alloy technology with formidable combat features, but there's A LOT of overhead to consider:
    • Its processor and battery (or whatever the fuck they are) have to take into consideration the allocation of resources to a) change shapes/liquify, b) conserve mass, and c) regenerate its wounds. That's quite a bit to worry about!

So why the hell was it able to outmuscle Arnold's T-800 in Terminator 2 with all those tasks running in the background?

Consider the mall fight. This is when both Terminators are still fresh, which makes it THE BEST comparison.

• Right off the bat, Arnold's shotgun blasts overwhelm the T-1000, knocking it back several feet with each shot, and then finally knocking it right on its liquid metal ass.
• As Arnold stops to reload, the seemingly dead T-1000 heals its wounds and springs to its feet, where it grapples with Arnold for a few moments, right before taking him through a wall, and then tossing him through a storefront window.

Right here, the T-1000's surprise strength makes little-to-no sense because of how it reacted to the shotgun blasts. You're telling me this thing can stand toe-to-toe with a T-800, eventually outmuscle it, and then toss it through the air like a child with ease, but a 12-gauge shotgun absolutely dominates the goddamn thing to the point where all it can do is flail backwards and then fall down?

Come on!

Sadly, all of this is nothing but "screenwriting magic," designed to make the T-1000 scarier than it really is...which is a bit dumb, because it's pretty fucking scary, regardless of whether or not it could outmuscle a T-800 or not. If Terminator 2 featured more cloak and dagger from the T-1000, or more creative fights, like this absolutely perfect scene, it might have been even better than it was.

And this is why Terminator 3: Dark Fate has the superior approach. A hyper-alloy combat chassis that provides the muscle, with its poly-alloy coating providing the stealth, speed and surprise.

Instantly, I can sense your loathing of this opinion. That's because you probably haven't enjoyed the trailer, you wrongly believe T2's CGI to be superior, or you correctly think Tim Miller is an obnoxious shithead who really doesn't have the film resume to be antagonizing would-be ticketholders.

I get it.

But regardless of all that, and even regardless of whether or not Dark Fate manages to outshit Terminator: Genisys, its liquid metal on hard metal approach is pretty fucking awesome...and completely logical.

In fact, the only thing more fearsome than Dark Fate's hard-soft man is the T-1,000,000. That thing is absolutely horrifying.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I never thought of it that way, and it makes sense. But it is a movie and everyone (including me) can overthink things.

But working with what we see and assume, maybe the reason why T-1000 is more powerful overall is because it's metal alloy allows it to focus power where it needs to be since it's a flowing body of metal atoms. T-800 is a fixed chassis.

T-1000 can be weak when being shot at because it's atoms are spread out and weak. A shotgun blast is too powerful for a weakly spread out metal organism. But when pelted with pistol shots, it absorbs them no problem. When it has to wrestle Arnie, it can focus its metal cell power to punching and tossing???

 

[Barnabot]

Isn't T-X a superior model than T-800 and T-1000? I mean it was designed to exterminate the terminators.

 

[pramod]

The T1000 is more "advanced" I guess thats why its stronger.

Anyway I still prefer T1 over T2. The only thing that makes T2 great are the crazy stunts.

 

[Chiggs]

I never thought of it that way, and it makes sense. But it is a movie and everyone (including me) can overthink things.

But working with what we see and assume, maybe the reason why T-1000 is more powerful overall is because it's metal alloy allows it to focus power where it needs to be since it's a flowing body of metal atoms. T-800 is a fixed chassis.

T-1000 can be weak when being shot at because it's atoms are spread out and weak. A shotgun blast is too powerful for a weakly spread out metal organism. But when pelted with pistol shots, it absorbs them no problem. When it has to wrestle Arnie, it can focus its metal cell power to punching and tossing???

That's a good take.

Still, taking the "it's a movie; get over it" element out of it, I still don't see how a liquid metal man (and just think about the power it must be using to keep a solid form) is able to go toe-to-toe with something in solid form and of greater size...that also has formidable strength. If more of the fights had been less about Robert Patrick overpowering Arnold, and more about him using liquid metal trickery and surprise, it would have been more satisfying. Some of that is present, but not enough, IMO.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

That's a good take.

Still, taking the "it's a movie; get over it" element out of it, I still don't see how a liquid metal man (and just think about the power it must be using to keep a solid form) is able to go toe-to-toe with something in solid form and of greater size...that also has formidable strength. If more of the fights had been less about Robert Patrick overpowering Arnold, and more about him using liquid metal trickery and surprise, it would have been more satisfying. Some of that is present, but not enough, IMO.

Ya. It doesn't make sense in fights. Instead of wrestling Arnie, how about just try to hammer him with metal fists or stabbing right through him to break him apart. But they preferred pushing each other around.

 

[Ol'Scratch]

The T1000 is more "advanced" I guess thats why its stronger.

Anyway I still prefer T1 over T2. The only thing that makes T2 great are the crazy stunts.

I always saw T1 as almost a horror movie and T2 as an action movie, Both are two of the best movies of all time.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

The only thing that makes T2 great are the crazy stunts.

You really think that’s the ONLY thing?

 

[Ol'Scratch]

Now I am going to have to go home and watch it

 

[godhandiscen]

The T-1000 can achieve higher momentum as it can control it's mass internally. It absolutely makes sense it was stronger than the T-800.

 

[Anustart]

I've always been of the mindset that t2 diverted from horror to family friendly cw romp.

Wish it would have kept the same tone.

 

[Tesseract]

it can phase shift at will

 

[The Scrivener]

I think your critique is reading too much into it. It's a work of fiction and the T-1000 is strong because it's a liquid terminator. I can't do italics on my phone right now but read liquid terminator in italics. It's a terminator first and foremost. The fiction is consistent, as far as I can tell. I don't think you're saying the T-800 is stronger in your post, so the fact that the T-1000 is a terminator means that he is strong. But I'm not a fanboy so carry on. Here's to the new film being badass.

 

[The Scrivener]

Ya. It doesn't make sense in fights. Instead of wrestling Arnie, how about just try to hammer him with metal fists or stabbing right through him to break him apart. But they preferred pushing each other around.

The worst is in Salvation when the T-800 has John Connor in his hands and... throws him away lol... instead of ripping his fucking head off as it is programmed to and winning the war.

 

[E-Cat]

I mean, the T-1000 is clearly a few more cranks beyond when it comes to Moore's law (if such a thing still exists in 20XX, or whatever), so even if it has more computation, it could fit to a smaller size/consume less physical resources?

 

[MilkyJoe]

It can manipulate it's state, clearly at a molecular level, maybe it can increase the strength of its molecular bonds?

 

[Slings and Arrows]

The T-1000 is all about mimicry; it's about stealth, surprise and speed.

• It's an incredible piece of poly-alloy technology with formidable combat features, but there's A LOT of overhead to consider:
  • It's processor and battery (or whatever the fuck they are) have to take into consideration the allocation of resources to a) change shapes/liquify, b) conserve mass, and c) regenerate its wounds. That's quite a bit to worry about

Consider the mall fight. This is when both Terminators are still both fresh, which makes it THE BEST comparison.

• Right off the bat, Arnold's shotgun blasts overwhelm the T-1000, knocking it back several feet with each shot, and then finally knocking it right on its liquid metal ass.
• As Arnold stops to reload, the seemingly dead T-1000 heals its wounds and springs to its feet, where it grapples with Arnold for a few moments, right before taking him through a wall, and then tossing him through a storefront window.

Right here, the T-1000's surprise strength makes little-to-no sense because of how it reacted to the shotgun blasts. You're telling me this thing can stand toe-to-toe with a T-800, eventually outmuscle it, and then toss it through the air like a child with ease, but a 12-gauge shotgun absolutely dominates the goddamn thing to the point where all it can do is flail backwards and then fall down?

I just want to say, excellent post OP and i'm glad to see more discussion around T-1000 and the Patrick played. IMO, there isn't a more fitting actor for one of the greatest villains of all time.

However, I think the T-1000 fakes the shotgun damage to make Arnie believe that the T-1000 isn't that strong. Like you say, he uses stealth, surprise and speed. Arnie drops his guard, thinking he can take this pussy toe-to-toe because of how much damage the shotgun blast apparently did.

T-1000 flows like water so he can use inertia and leverage much better than a solid form can. The solid form may be stronger at right-angled planes, for exmples, but the other 356 degrees of attack, the T-1000 has the advantage, if you get me?

Watch Akido and you will see Steve Seagul take down huge guys with minimal effort, all by using the correct force and leverage.

 

[Silent Duck]

Terminator is so unrealistic. There is no way Skynet would send machines back in time to destroy us.... not when we have Chuck Norris.

 

[Tesseract]

going emotionless with the forthcoming terminators seems like a mistake, that road has been paved and explored

 

[Chiggs]

However, I think the T-1000 fakes the shotgun damage to make Arnie believe that the T-1000 isn't that strong. Like you say, he uses stealth, surprise and speed. Arnie drops his guard, thinking he can take this pussy toe-to-toe because of how much damage the shotgun blast apparently did.

I hadn't thought about it like that, honestly. A mild counter is that Arnold knows about the T-1000; remember, he explains its features to John in detail, even telling him that it's far more advanced. Would the element of surprise be that pronounced?

 

[#Phonepunk#]

yeah i feel like it's tough because, on the one hand, technology has evolved rapidly since the first Terminator film was made, but on the other, the idea of these impractical skeletal looking metal monsters annihilating humanity is just too cool. so it's a tricky balance of "what would happen?" vs. "we still have to make a cool looking robot"

in reality, judgement day would probably not have any robots, no human like machines, they would just nuke the planet one day and that would be it. technology is embedded in our power grid, our water supply, all kinds of systems, it would be easy to just cripple humanity with a co-ordinated global effort without the need to have a robot that can walk on two legsa. the idea of a robot exoskeleton seems like a such a waste of resources, but it looks dang cool.

so yeah plausibility or logic are wholly inessential to the franchise. T4 probably took the most realistic route and yet it was the most boring to watch. T5, i genuinely loved it, because it leaned into the silliness, rather than tried to hide it. tbh the more serious filmmakers take themselves, the less i feel like seeing what they do.

 

[Airola]

• Its processor and battery (or whatever the fuck they are) have to take into consideration the allocation of resources to a) change shapes/liquify, b) conserve mass, and c) regenerate its wounds. That's quite a bit to worry about!

Robots don't worry though.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

I hadn't thought about it like that, honestly. A mild counter is that Arnold knows about the T-1000; remember, he explains its features to John in detail, even telling him that it's far more advanced. Would the element of surprise be that pronounced?

The stealth and suprise is the stealthy suprise. Although arnie is much more intelligent than the T-1000 because he uses his bloodlust against himself, which is how Arnie was stopped in T1.

Clever twist of fate

 

[kegkilla]

And this is why Terminator 3: Dark Fate has the superior approach. A hyper-alloy combat chassis that provides the muscle, with its poly-alloy coating providing the stealth, speed and surprise.

Holy fuck the comments on this

 

[Chiggs]

Holy fuck the comments on this

Miller should have really thought twice about opening his mouth.