XT Vengeance
Member
Dinosaurs look so much cooler with feathers.
#teamFeathers
#teamFeathers
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A new fossil suggests 'all dinosaurs' may have had feathers
- Thread starter GK86
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Sir_Crocodile
Member
Aeriscloud
Banned
It's funny because it's extinct.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
So, I get how birds are dinosaurs and how flight evolved. But the thing I never understood is how dinosaurs went from having a toothed fleshy mouth to hard beaks?
If birds still had toothed fleshy mouths, more people would likely be apt to see them as dinosaurs.
If birds still had toothed fleshy mouths, more people would likely be apt to see them as dinosaurs.
The most likely scenario for birds is weight reduction to aid in flying or gliding. You start with a nice toothy smile, but that is heavy, reduce the size and function of the teeth, reduce the weight of the skull, but add keratin around the mouth for protection and added strength. The weight reduction would be a strong selection factor as flying animals need to have the center of balance under their wing, and are more stable the more weight is focused around that center (why the dinosaur tail had to go). However without something (like the keratin of the beak) to provide a light weight strong enamel like role around the mouth you can only reduce so much. Plenty of other animals have gone the beak route to great success, birds, turtles, even other dinosaurs like the ceratopsids, so it could have come from another selective pressure besides weight reduction (turtles and triceratops both have heavy heads that could be reduced in many ways without losing teeth).
Graphics Horse
Member
Squid also have beaks 
except for that weird one with human teeth.
Look up Oviraptors for beaked dinos that already resembled birds.
except for that weird one with human teeth.Look up Oviraptors for beaked dinos that already resembled birds.
Doomshroom
Member
Squid also have beaks
I think that was a fish.
Yeah, fuck that "T-Rex was a scavenger" shit as well.
They,like most predators,likely scavenge when they had a chance.
Squid also have beaks
true, I didn't include them because they arrived at the 'beak' through a completely different evolutionary path. I kept my examples to vertebrates as they all went through the same evolutionary process to get jaws (modifying the first two gill arches for grabbing things) and the same origin for teeth (modified placoid scales). I also stayed with tetrapods as they all had at least some time as a terrestrial organisms. The turtle is a bit of a cheat, as it could have been a distinctly aquatic selective pressure that pushed them towards a beak (perhaps a similar evolutionary progression as the parrot-fish).
Most predators will scavenge when given the chance. Look at bears, lion, wolves, etc. Why waste effort and energy killing when you can steal someone else's kill, or eat an animal that died of disease?
Graphics Horse
Member
I thought so but I mostly wanted an excuse to bring up the toothed squid.
Cow Mengde
Banned
A recent paper said weight wasn't really the issue. It had more to do with food than anything.
And yeah, tons of dinosaurs had beaks on both theropod and ornithopods.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Just think, going about your day. lalala la...then out of nowhere some big ass condor thing comes down slits your throat then flies off with you while your parents and loved ones are screaming. maybe some blood falls down and gets them wet....scarry
Opinionatedfish
Member
A few notes.
1. Birds are delicious. So Dinosaurs must also be delicious.
2. Birds are rude assholes. I mean seriously. Almost all wild birds I've dealt with are noisy jerks who land on my balcony at 4am every day to burst into chirps. I rescued a Greeb once. Those make the most annoying noises. Gorgeous bird, annoying noises. So, dinosaurs would hang out on my balcony making awful noises. Nice.
3. So, would covering a raptor with blankets make it fall asleep?
1. Birds are delicious. So Dinosaurs must also be delicious.
2. Birds are rude assholes. I mean seriously. Almost all wild birds I've dealt with are noisy jerks who land on my balcony at 4am every day to burst into chirps. I rescued a Greeb once. Those make the most annoying noises. Gorgeous bird, annoying noises. So, dinosaurs would hang out on my balcony making awful noises. Nice.
3. So, would covering a raptor with blankets make it fall asleep?
Dr. Buni
Member
Yup. Dinosaurs with feathers are the shit.
LiquidSolid
Member
Muu??? You mean Moa.
Anyway, I've no clue why people are in such denial over feathers. I was obsessed with dinosaurs when I was a kid and once I found out that some/most/all of them had feathers, it didn't take me long to realise how much cooler that actually made them. Some of the art depicting feathered dinosaurs are incredible.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I love it. Dinosaurs with feathers are the best.
User 73706
Banned
Ankylo Wings for commercial distribution at restaurant chains, probably.
Graphics Horse
Member
I think it'd depend on climate, if it needed the warmth it could well have feathery underside, like a hedgehog has a fluffy underside. But larger things are, the less there is a need for insulation, so I think in hot places you'd have large dinos like elephants and rhinos that were mostly feather free.
In contrast to fur, feathers can actually be beneficial in hot weather, as it can be used to insulate against the warmth. This blog entry details why. Also, just look at birds in warm climate, they do tend to have feathers
Anton Sugar
Member
Missed this--very cool!
I cant see how these guys could have feathers.
A gaffer already posted, but somewhat related: John Conway (whose art was posted in this thread) has a book series called "All Yesterdays" which explores and promotes unconventional portrayals of dinosaurs.
The idea is to speculate on dinosaur behavior outside of the "herbivores eat plants and predators hunt herbivores" mindset that has been ingrained.
Even better is that he and some others held a contest where they took fan submissions of unconventional paleo art, and then packaged it into a PDF called "All Your Yesterdays" for which you can name your own price. While the books discuss unconventional behavior, relationships, and appearance, there is a specific idea of "shrink-wrapping" that is prevalent in modern portrayals:
That quote is accompanied by this image from All Your Yesterdays:
And here are some images from All Yesterdays:
Spiky triceratops:
Chunky parasaurolophus
Camarasaurus in mud bath:
Tree-climbing protoceratops (based on goat behavior):
Sleepy peaceful Rex:
Allosaurus and camptosaurus not killing each other (again, based on behavior of carnivore-herbivore relationships today):
Fluffy leaellynasaura, compared to the traditional portrayal:
Patterned majungasaur, compared to traditional portrayal:
As a bonus, there is a section of All Yesterdays called "All Todays"that posits how we might portray contemporary animals if we were only going by bone structure. After all, here is a sperm whale vs its own skeleton:
So a baboon skeleton "shrink-wrapped" might look like this:
A "shrink-wrapped" swan might look like this terrifying thing:
Cats, as misinterpreted by a future species:
Some other non-traditional portrayals:
Tupandactylus
Sauropods
Sorry, I know this is a long post, but it is fascinating and frustrating that we will probably never know what dinosaurs/prehistoric creatures actually looked like.
Nah, it was a great post. I always wondered in the future, once most of the current species goes extinct, how accurate will intelligence in the future be able remodel a species.
Maybe I missed the details, but was it explained why this fossil was able to remain well preserved verses most fossils?
Maybe I missed the details, but was it explained why this fossil was able to remain well preserved verses most fossils?
I think that was a fish.
No god you are drunk stop making things.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
The title is misleading- this more or less says that most Dinosaurs had the potential to sport feathers, as its genetic code evolved much earlier than some thought years ago. Of course, we already knew this. Still, cool looking Dinosaur, and new discoveries are always exciting. I'm sure some Dinosaurs we expect to be scaly were feathers, and some we expect to be feathered were scaly. With as much variety that exists in the Dinosaur kingdom, I imagine there were was a huge variety in their appearances, much more than most paleo-art suggests.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Very cool stuff. I need to check these books out.
Septimus Prime
Member
Funner fact: T. rex is closer in time to us than it is to Allosaurus!
Day ruiner: Remember Brachiosaurus brancai (the one in Jurassic Park)? It's also not real.
Nor might be Triceratops.
Yes. Wtf was I thinking on that one? My bad.
Great post. And a fantastic view on dino's. I never actually thought about it that way (skin-wrapped). I might have to pick up the book.
Tizoc
Member
Hear hear!
Cow Mengde
Banned
Neither of these are true. We only lost a species of Brachiosaurus, but the genus still exists.
And Triceratosp would still be there even if Torosaurus is the adult form, because Triceratops was named first, so that name takes priority.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Somehow, the fact that it looks like Elton John doesn't make it seem less capable of eating me in one chomp.
Septimus Prime
Member
Hence, Brachiosaurus brancai, the species. It just so happens that that is the most popular representation of the genus, though.
No arguments about Triceratops.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Shaved penis-vagina four-legged monster :x
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, and these still look like they could fuck up your day:
This needs to be in every feather-debate thread, thank you.
Omegasquash
Member
I read a quote once that said the same thing, only it was with Stegosaurus.
"The time difference between Stegosaurus and Tyrannosaur is bigger than the time difference between Tyrannosaur and YOU."
The fossil beds in China and Mongolia where these incredibly well preserved fossils are coming from basically just hit the sweet spot for fossil formation. Very low energy sediment deposit into cold anoxic water. We have been pulling some incredible fossil finds from East Asia over the past several decades.
We are getting better and better at creating bio-mechanically accurate portrayals of dinosaurs. Basically we can use evolutionary programming to produce efficient gates and then build the muscles of a size necessary to create those gates at the obvious attachment points (and based on their evolutionary place in the spectrum of life). From there we can use some of our best preserved fossils to recreate certain integument features, and in some remarkable specimens even see the structures of some soft tissues like organs. Even with all of this we are getting dead things, and if you have ever stumbled on a partially decomposed carcass, it is often quite different from the living animal. The scientist in me would always rather show only what we do know and let the artists embellish. But the art lover in me sees so much potential in the creative works of well informed artists willing to make bold embellishments.
thelooseteeth
Member
I love both Poe and Sagan. Men from different times, but both are great minds. I don't agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments of the poem--just thought it was relevant and I had just come across it again the other day.
User 73706
Banned
Dude, think about cats. Cutest little fuckers in the world and they manage to run most any family they're a part of.
Dinosaurs were the first cats.
CountAntonius
Member
One day we are gonna find out all dinosaurs looked like fucking chickens.
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