A Now for ANOTHER edition of grumpy old gamer.

C

Cow Mengde

Banned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKnzeXkefDo&feature=player_embedded

I'm just sadden by how awful today's kids are at video games. I was half his age when Contra came out, and I could get through half the game without 30 lives on my own. It's not about him not liking the graphics or whatever, but now I'm worried games will just get easier and easier. Even stranger is that I hear adults today ask about what games to let their kids play, and people tell them to avoid giving kids hard games. Who the hell was there to take pity on us when we were kids? It's not like there weren't easier games back then, but man did I love Contra. It felt like a real achievement when I beat Kirby's Dreamland when I was 11.

Oh, and I never did get pass the bike stage in Battletoads.
 
Cow Mengde said:
It's not like there weren't easier games back then, but man did I love Contra. It felt like a real achievement when I beat Kirby's Dreamland when I was 11.
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Are you implying that Kirby's Dreamland is hard? Because it's not. Like, at all.
 
Shig said:
Are you implying that Kirby's Dreamland is hard? Because it's not. Like, at all.
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No, of course not. Kirby's Dreamland's not hard at all. I'm saying we did have our easy games back then... well a couple of years later compared to Contra, but that didn't stop me from loving Contra.

Today's kids think the games we played when we were young suck ass. It happens with every generation.
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No, that's not the point. I'm aware of that, but you'd think with today's more... sophisticated games, kids would have less trouble with Contra compared to us, but it's completely the opposite.
 
Kirby's Dreamland was like, really easy, and also only like an hour long. But I mean, I'm 16 now, I've played all the Contras and Metal Slugs, and I'm working my way through the Touhou series. I think the video is just of a kid who sucks ass at video games, although I will admit it's been years since I played a mainstream game as tough as one of the original Mega Men.
 
I used to walk 5 miles to school in rain, snow or shine.

Media changes with each generation, back when I played NES in the 80's I could play all day because I was a little kid with no responsibilities. Now-a-days, I don't waste my time on games with really high difficulty. I only have an hour a day to game and I don't waste that hour trying over and over to complete a difficult level.
 
ravien56 said:
I tries making my 13 year old bro play Marvel VS Capcom 2...said it looked too ghetto>_<
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That reminds me, I have no idea what the definition for ghetto is.

Media changes with each generation, back when I played NES in the 80's I could play all day because I was a little kid with no responsibilities. Now-a-days, I don't waste my time on games with really high difficulty. I only have an hour a day to game and I don't waste that hour trying over and over to complete a difficult level.
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I'm comparing kids with kids.
 
So how does the port on XBLA hold up? Is it easier? More difficult? Any other significant differences? I've never played the arcade version, but I loved the NES port as a kid.
 
HoRNS456 said:
I used to walk 5 miles to school in rain, snow or shine.
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Uphill both ways, baby.

Anyway, comparing kids today vs. kids from the 80s and 90s, I know kids who thought Twilight Princess was too hard. I'd like to see some of them sit down with like, Majora's Mask or even OoT.
 
There are a lot more entertainment options nowadays. Banging your head against the home version of a quarter muncher can't be that high on the list.
 
There is a difference between hard and frustrating. Rewarding skill or rewarding timing memorization. Rewarding strategy or rewarding grinding. We forget that a lot of old games didn't have brilliant game design that was also hard, they had bad game design that was hard because of how cheap it was.

While I also mock ridiculously easy games that are basically "press A to advance the story/kill the enemy" like Prince of Persia, overall I do appreciate how game design has evolved to the point where designers recognize that they should always avoid causing frustration through cheap tactics or artificial lengtheners.
 
"The Simpsons" game does a great bit about this. How many points did you get? What? Games don't have points any more? Well, did you make it through with just 3 lives? What? You have infinite lives now?
 
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Kids playing 3d games now a days are having a lot of trouble adjusting to only playing on a 2d scale, I got my bro to play wario land shake and he had problems controlling it compared to a game like COD4 I dont know why though.

I find he pis up the 3d games easy adn 2d leaves him puzzled more
 
Zane said:
Anyway, comparing kids today vs. kids from the 80s and 90s, I know kids who thought Twilight Princess was too hard. I'd like to see some of them sit down with like, Majora's Mask or even OoT.
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Well when TP first came out you and I spent like two hours on ONE puzzle in the Sky Temple.
 
It's a little harder to swallow starting a game over from the beginning after dying some set number of times, when games are 8-12 hours long now.

I don't want to play the same section of a game over and over and over again until I master it. When I was a kid and it was the only choice I had, I dealt with it. Today I want some challenge but I'm not looking for frustration and repetition.
 
dionysus said:
There is a difference between hard and frustrating. Rewarding skill or rewarding timing memorization. Rewarding strategy or rewarding grinding. We forget that a lot of old games didn't have brilliant game design that was also hard, they had bad game design that was hard because of how cheap it was.

While I also mock ridiculously easy games that are basically "press A to advance the story/kill the enemy" like Prince of Persia, overall I do appreciate how game design has evolved to the point where designers recognize that they should always avoid causing frustration through cheap tactics or artificial lengtheners.
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Well, that's a fair point. If your purpose in making a game is to impart a story, like a lot of JRPGs, esp Final Fantasy, making things difficult is counter-intuitive. You want people to keep playing so they get all the story. But in a game like Contra, if it's an easy game the whole thing just feels hollow.

JSnake said:
Well when TP first came out you and I spent like two hours on ONE puzzle in the Sky Temple.
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Haha, that's so true. Still, that was the good kind of puzzle that I think games need more of. It was satisfying when you solved it, and it introduced a new gameplay element (lowering yourself with the Clawshots)
 
Zane said:
Well, that's a fair point. If your purpose in making a game is to impart a story, like a lot of JRPGs, esp Final Fantasy, making things difficult is counter-intuitive. You want people to keep playing so they get all the story. But in a game like Contra, if it's an easy game the whole thing just feels hollow.
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I understand the value of difficulty in game design. I like the sense of accomplishment too. I was talking about things like the water level of TMNT or points in jrpgs where you would have to grind for 4 days to beat the next boss.
 
I have to wonder, would anyone here still be able to beat Contra if they were to sit down and play it straight through in the foreseeable future (No Konami code)? I can't really see myself beating this game anymore, it's been ages since I last had a NES, and the last time I did a 1CC run was like over ten years ago.
 
Cow Mengde said:
That reminds me, I have no idea what the definition for ghetto is.
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477632186_l.jpg
 
I think it's a combination of kids not needing to develop a reflex/precision skillset to get a full serving of games these days as well as the inherently unforgiving nature of 80s games resulting in a disproportionately large number of today's enthusiasts who grew up in the arcade or on the NES that already had the predisposition to like those sorts of punishing experiences. You just didn't keep after it if you didn't. I'd imagine there were plenty of new gamers in the 80s who saw "Game Over" as a conclusion, not an invitation.

Jangaroo said:
I have to wonder, would anyone here still be able to beat Contra if they were to sit down and play it straight through in the foreseeable future (No Konami code)? I can't really see myself beating this game anymore, it's been ages since I last had a NES, and the last time I did a 1CC run was like over ten years ago.
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EDIT: No problems here, though I don't know if I could make it through twice over on one set. Ninja Gaiden (NES), now there's another story.
 
"It's not as easy as Halo 3 or Call of Duty: World at War"

*bitchslaps*

Of course it isn't you ignorant shit, because Contra came out at a time when men were MEN.
 
Doesn't the video say that this was one of the first times the kid played the game? Are people here such heroes that they rocked out Contra right away?

Now, he didn't like the game and felt no need to continue to play it to develop the necessary skill.
 
Games like Contra had to be punishing back them, because the only way you'd get actual playtime out of 256K of content was to make player do it over and over again. Not to mention that Contra and it's ilk were arcade games, which are designed to kill the player so they keep putting quarters in. That kind of gameplay just doesn't translate to today's environment.
 
The reason you remember your and all your buds being so awesome at games is probably because that's all your ever did. They also had more of an arcade mindset which has mostly gone away. A kid nowadays could spend countless mindnumbing hours mastering Contra, or he could go do something online or play something else. Gaming isn't competing with just games anymore.

That said all the self-esteem everyone must be a winner stuff has probably had an effect.

edit: p.s. I suck at most 2d games
 
obonicus said:
Doesn't the video say that this was one of the first times the kid played the game? Are people here such heroes that they rocked out Contra right away?
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Maybe he didn't get to watch someone play it before hand. That might explain it. I watch people play before I played. I didn't say we were heroes, but I definitely got pass the first level. Games back then always made the first level the easiest.

I've actually grown to be a rather cautious gamer. I always test the waters out with any game. I never go in there expecting to win. I play and get a feel for the game and learn a bit before I put real effort into it. I do that with strategy games too.

This thread made me want to go back and play some Ninja Gaiden. I'll probably drag it out later today.
 
The bigger problem is that the options available to a person is so much greater now. Why play through a game that is frustrating when there are 1000 games out there that are not?


I didn't play through Athena because it was good. I played through it because there was absolutely nothing else to play at the time.
 
When he said "Stay tuned for Dylan's next game; Battletoads," I immediately lost my shit laughing.

Contra was just a warm up, D.
 
Hmm interesting. I got my 12 yr old cousin Contra 4 for the DS not too long ago. I was thinking he has some soft games on his DS can he handle this? Sure enough for the past month or so everyday I saw his determination grow and grow. I didn't have much faith in his gaming skills to be honest. I would leave to work and comeback in the evening and their he was going at it. The kid actually kicked the game's ass :D It renewed my spirits. Next up Metal Slug 7.
 
ToxicAdam said:
The bigger problem is that the options available to a person is so much greater now. Why play through a game that is frustrating when there are 1000 games out there that are not?


I didn't play through Athena because it was good. I played through it because there was absolutely nothing else to play at the time.
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Really? Growing up poor, I still saw tons of games out there that I wanted to play, but never got the chance to play. I still never got to play Rygar on the NES to this very day.
 
Cow Mengde said:
This thread made me want to go back and play some Ninja Gaiden. I'll probably drag it out later today.
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I love me some Ninja Gaiden.

Something about 1-hit enemies just clicks with me. I really don't enjoy how in so many games today, enemies take a ridiculous amount of hits. Sometimes I like being bombarded with enemies so that I have to use my own jumping, platforming, and twitch techniques to counter them.t the typical "combo attack" approach that's seen so often in action games today.

In the old Ninja Gaiden games, the gameplay and difficulty stemmed from the player's ability to maneuver and not from their ability to attack. And, it wasn't overbearingly hard like Contra either. Ninja Gaiden II: Dark Sword of Chaos had the PERFECT difficulty.
 
I do like Ninja Gaiden III as well, but I can see where you're coming from. The addition of the "better sword" was unnecessary, and so were the limited continues. I had no real issues with the core level design though.

But yeah, NGII is the best of that trilogy in my opinion. So much fun. And, like I said, perfect difficulty, except maybe the final boss which overdid it a bit.
 
Cow Mengde said:
Really? Growing up poor, I still saw tons of games out there that I wanted to play, but never got the chance to play. I still never got to play Rygar on the NES to this very day.
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You didn't have a video rental store in your neighborhood? Friends that had a dozen games (and consoles) you could trade with?
 
Well, today we have online gaming. Is there really a bigger challenge than competitive online gaming? Only the best player wins.

I'm more worried about games getting shallower cause most of the budgets are blown on graphics.
 
dionysus said:
There is a difference between hard and frustrating. Rewarding skill or rewarding timing memorization. Rewarding strategy or rewarding grinding. We forget that a lot of old games didn't have brilliant game design that was also hard, they had bad game design that was hard because of how cheap it was.

While I also mock ridiculously easy games that are basically "press A to advance the story/kill the enemy" like Prince of Persia, overall I do appreciate how game design has evolved to the point where designers recognize that they should always avoid causing frustration through cheap tactics or artificial lengtheners.
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A thousand times this.

After playing Contra for hours on end when I was little, dying cheap death after cheap death from cheap crap, I had everything memorized. It was then that I realized the game itself is only about 5 minutes long. :D
 
I think the problem lies in the kid's motivation rather than Contra being too hard for him to handle. Also, the setting might just a bit too intimidating for him since he's not used to this kind of game, making him lose interest. Judging from his reactions, it seems he's just not THAT into games.

I mean, I'm sure the kid COULD get good at Contra, but if you don't have the motivation to get better because the game doesn't interest you, why bother?
 
Why are you watching videos of random kids playing Contra?

obonicus said:
It's part of a blog series, so not exactly random:
http://www.nerdballoon.com/kerry-blog/project-d
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Hmm...I dunno.

It's cool that they want to try this but kids today usually aren't familiar with Contra or games just like it. They're mostly playing some combination of third or first-person shooters, 3D platformers, and so on. That kid is entirely out of his element.
 
hehe its crazy i used to beat battletoads in one life , now i probably cant even finish it.
Nes games are the hardest games ever aside from arcade games , so unforgiving.
 
jufonuk said:
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Kids playing 3d games now a days are having a lot of trouble adjusting to only playing on a 2d scale, I got my bro to play wario land shake and he had problems controlling it compared to a game like COD4 I dont know why though.

I find he pis up the 3d games easy adn 2d leaves him puzzled more
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I've read that as well, also that there's something with dodge sprite with sprite that causes issues. If it's something they've never done or experienced before they won't have the necessary motor skills and are unlikely to develop them with easier 3D games beckoning.

Hypnotoad said:
11-year olds shouldn't be playing Halo 3 or any other shooter, easy as that.
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One of my first thoughts, an 11 year olds favorite games are two M-rated shooters. Ah well, at least he didn't say GTAIV or some other games.
 
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