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A Song of Ice and Fire BOOK Discussion |OT2| Unmarked SPOILERS for Published Material

E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
I also think that Winds of Winter will be out rather sooner than later. Maybe at the end of this year if everything goes well. I am more concerned about A Dream of Spring. I really hope that it won't take him another five years. And I also hope that he won't need to write an eighth book.
 
T

todd360

Member
ElTorro said:
I also think that Winds of Winter will be out rather sooner than later. Maybe at the end of this year if everything goes well. I am more concerned about A Dream of Spring. I really hope that it won't take him another five years. And I also hope that he won't need to write an eighth book.
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I bet it will take just as long if not longer for the last book. Its depressing.
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Basileus777 said:
You sweet summer child, you must really be new to this. Anyone familiar with his past knows that GRRM thinking the book is X amount of time from completion is meaningless.
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Seriously. Speculation has been meaningless and useless since the early 2000's. It's just futile frustration. Give it a rest, people.
 
T

TheCowboyPoet

Member
todd360 said:
I bet it will take just as long if not longer for the last book. Its depressing.
Click to expand...

I'm speculating/hoping (as someone who's never written a novel), that the last book won't take as long to write as he won't have to worry about leading it into the next novel and conceivably he's always known where the books end up it's just the getting there that's been slowing him down ...maybe? Oh who knows.
 
S

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
People being naive in here.

The question is no longer about when the books will come out. But will be be splitting up another one? Ala Crows/Feast.

We know we ain't getting it anyways, any time soon. LOL
 
K

Kinokou

Member
Half the time I come in here I always frown at George for breaking some of our spirits. If there is any thread on this forum that needs more BELIEVE it is this one.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
todd360 said:
This is only a possibility is the book is done now and they are sitting on the announcement I suppose. What do you think? Could the book be done? Would they be smart enough to hold the announcement for the end of the 10th episode. I'm sure HBO would be down for having George make the announcement or have it show up as text at the very least at the end of the episode. I really think we will get this book by the end of the year in any case.
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So sort of a repeat of 2011 then, when A Dance with Dragons came out shortly after season one of the show wrapped?

I BELIEVE

(btw, I just found this thread, which is greatly amusing)
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
RatskyWatsky said:
(btw, I just found this thread, which is greatly amusing)
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There's a new update on George R.R. Martin's website: The book is still not done :)lol) but supposedly he's really, really close to finishing it. He's also predicting a Fall 2008 release date.
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He's been saying "close to finishing it" for the past two years. I don't believe that bullshit anymore. Will only continue to read when all books are out.
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lmao
 
S

Sesha

Member
I just pretend there isn't a next book and that the series is over until the next book actually happens. I'm much happier as an Ice and Fire fan that way. I have enough on my turntable hoping for DMC5. If I had to spend mindshare on George's writing process I'd grow mad(der).
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
I'll preface this by saying I've given up and have no hope. Now that that's out the way the two takeways I got from that blog post at the time were that

1) In May 2015 Martin thought he could finish the book by late October 2015, meaning he must have a lot of material completed. I'm guessing at least 60-70%.

2) If the novel was completed in late October it would have taken 3-4 months to edit/manufacture/etc, ie a Feb or March 2016 release.

He's been quiet lately and seemed to insinuate sharing his guilt helped him get back on the horse. All that being said I would never bet on him finishing by x date, for instance the end of 2016. Wouldn't be stunned at all if he writes another blog post in March 2017 saying the exact same thing.
 
F

Frodo

Member
It hurts every time I see this thread updated.






One day it will happen, tho. End then I'll read the book in a week or so, and proceed to get mad at GRRM again for being a slow writer and prioritising stuff that interest him but not me and etc and etc.
 
I

Incandenza

Banned
No, it's still not done. But he did give a small update and is putting Arianne II on his site.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/487298.html

You want to know what the Sand Snakes, Prince Doran, Areo Hotah, Ellaria Sand, Darkstar, and the rest will be up to in WINDS OF WINTER? Quite a lot, actually. The sample will give you a taste. For the rest, you will need to wait.

And no, just to spike any bullshit rumors, changing the sample chapter does NOT mean I am done. See the icon up above? Monkey is still on my back... but he's growing, he is, and one day...

Current Mood: busy
Click to expand...
 
L

Lothar

Banned
GRRM said:
You want to know what the Sand Snakes, Prince Doran, Areo Hotah, Ellaria Sand, Darkstar, and the rest will be up to in WINDS OF WINTER?
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No, not really. He has to be fucking with us.

Quite a lot, actually.
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Oh no.

The best thing that could happen with the Dorne chapters is if George just pressed the delete button on them. Then maybe he could possibly fit in a ending to the next book.
 
J

Jack Scofield

Member
How hilarious would it be if GRRM watches Game of Thrones and furiously takes notes for his upcoming books. "Oooh, that was a nice twist! I'm definitely including that in the books."
 
R

Roland_Gunner

Member
jett said:
Hey look, those are all my favorite characters! Oh wait, those are all characters I give no fucks about. What are the chances this book will end up being even worse than the last two.
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I've soured on the series quite a bit, but think there will almost certainly be more focus in Winds of Winters on the Starks and Dany's story will actually move forward. Which will means it pretty much will have to be better than the last.
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Lothar said:
No, not really. He has to be fucking with us.

Oh no.

The best thing that could happen with the Dorne chapters is if George just pressed the delete button on them. Then maybe he could possibly fit in a ending to the next book.
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Haha, I had the same thought.
 
A

adamsappel

Member
Jack Scofield said:
How hilarious would it be if GRRM watches Game of Thrones and furiously takes notes for his upcoming books. "Oooh, that was a nice twist! I'm definitely including that in the books."
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This is not as unlikely as it may seem. GRRM has probably just finished the Dorne portion of TWOW. Apparently, he writes each POV separately, and to a conclusion, then moves on to the next, and then divides all the chapters into book form as appropriate. He may only be starting on, say, the Dany character arc, but he's already finished Theon and Arya's stories. So, he could incorporate show plots or fan theories in the final book if he found them compelling.
 
D

Dash_Riprock

Member
Jack Scofield said:
How hilarious would it be if GRRM watches Game of Thrones and furiously takes notes for his upcoming books. "Oooh, that was a nice twist! I'm definitely including that in the books."
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He's already admitted that he loves Ramsey's girlfriend, who has no basis in the books, and wishes he had thought of her.
 
P

PHOENIXZERO

Member
There were only like two, maybe three Dorne chapters in the last two books that were worth a damn and like I'm sure a lot of people every Dorne and Ironborn chapter was just something to get through before getting back to POVs of characters I cared about. Actually, include Mr.Fatpinkmast's on the ship chapters in there too.
 
K

KuwabaraTheMan

Banned
TwntyOneTwlv said:
Does anybody really care about the Dorne characters? For real now.
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Yes?

There are a lot of great characters in Dorne. The Dorne storyline in A Feast for Crows was genuinely great stuff, with The Princess in the Tower being a top tier chapter and one of the best of that book. Arianne, Doran, the Sand Snakes, even Areo Hotah...there's a lot to like about Dorne.
 
P

Purple Cheeto

Member
ElTorro said:
I also think that Winds of Winter will be out rather sooner than later. Maybe at the end of this year if everything goes well. I am more concerned about A Dream of Spring. I really hope that it won't take him another five years. And I also hope that he won't need to write an eighth book.
Click to expand...

Even if you assume he's writing at the same pace that he was when he worked on Dance, the book won't be out any time soon. I saw a thing where someone did a break down based entirely on George's own quotes and numbers of his pacing during ADwD and using that calculated that he won't finish until mid 2017 at the EARLIEST.

Available data and discussion:

As was mentioned earlier, approximately 10 chapters that will be included in TWOW exist and were read by GURM in various conventions or published on his website and other places. The only concrete existing page count - 168 pages submitted in February 2013 - was mentioned by his editor Anne Groell [5]. GURMs own estimates are:
1. Quarter done (April 2013) [6]
2. Hundreds of pages/dozens of chapters, not yet finished. Still months from being finished with good writing progress (January 2016) [7]

Other rumours surfaced through the years (completion by 2016, for example) were disproved by GURM himself. Any information about the book completion status will come from him or his editor. Any other statements should be considered a baseless rumours.

GURM projects the final length of the book at ~1500 manuscript pages (mp's) - his page count, based on the page count of his writing software. The complete manuscript of ADWD was sent to the publishers on April 27th, 2011 (approximately 5 years ago) and was 1510 mp's long. The fourth book in the series was published on October 17th, 2005. Based on the information in [4], more than 500 mp's were written between 2007 and 2010, and the remaining 500 were written in 2010 and the beginning of 2011. This allows us to extrapolate his writing speed.

The "quarter done" statement means ~375 mp's. "Hundreds" could mean anything between 375 and 999, which, based on ADWD progress, could mean anywhere between 1 and 4-5 years to completion. Since this book is highly anticipated due to ongoing TV adaptation, it is safe to assume that its release will coincide with start/end of GOT season. GOT season usually starts in April and ends in mid-late June, which means the possible release dates are April/June 2017 or April/June 2018. The show is expected to run for 8 seasons. Another release date possibility is a winter holiday season, however it is less likely due to benefits of connection to GOT promotion.

Conclusion:

In order for the book to be released in June 2017 (assumed end of GOT season 7), GURM has to have ~1000 mp's by now and write at least as fast as he did in 2010. This is an optimistic, but possible assumption because it is possible he is being pressed by his publishers to progress faster. The more realistic release date projection is therefore April/June 2018, which will mark ~7 years since ADWD came out.
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Link.

Of course reddit remains delusional.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
Finished my first read-through of the series... I have stupendously mixed feelings about it. The first three books were worth the price of admission, but Feast and Dragons promised much and barely advanced anything. I had to force myself to finish them. "Words are wind" indeed.

I've a growing apprehension that the endgame is shaping up into being a rock-paper-scissors fight between magical counters. The Others, Dragonglass and Dragonsteel, The Wall, The Horn of Joramun (if it exists), resurrection between the red priests and Qyburn, the Dragons, Blood of the Dragon, the Dragon Horn, Lightbringer, the Greenseer...

throwgame.gif
 
C

Clipjoint

Member
Kinokou said:
Referencing
the Monkey Treatment
I see. It's one of his short stories, spoilers for short story:
I do not like it one bit, kinda implies writing the book will kill him, but I'm probably reading to much into it.
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The monkey is a reference to the phrase "the monkey on my back" - which goes back to his updates when he would call ADWD "King Kong" and TWOW "Son of Kong".
 
K

Kinokou

Member
Clipjoint said:
The monkey is a reference to the phrase "the monkey on my back" - which goes back to his updates when he would call ADWD "King Kong" and TWOW "Son of Kong".
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That could maybe be a better outlook, but having read that story I can't help seeing it as a possible connection too.
 
C

Clipjoint

Member
Kinokou said:
That could maybe be a better outlook, but having read that story I can't help seeing it as a possible connection too.
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You're reading too much into it. He's always called his projects the "monkeys on my back" with ADWD being King Kong and TWOW being Son of Kong. He's been doing it for years. No need to attribute anything more to it than that.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/219080.html

http://grrm.livejournal.com/154664.html

http://grrm.livejournal.com/126645.html
 
G

gutshot

Member
GRRM read a new sample chapter today. POV character was
the Damphair
.

Some tweets from @BryndenBFish summarizing it:

Off the top of my head: Euron is in Shields, sails out to sea, DAMPHAIR is his captive at bottom of Silence. Some really messed up stuff.

Oh, Pyat Pree was a captive of Euron that kept saying "Pree, Pree", he had no legs.

Euron has suit of Valyrian armor

Euron sacked the Arbor( I think). Redwynes are coming west against Euron, Leyton is sending ships against Euron down the Mander

Oh and uh, Euron admitted to killing 3 of his brothers, including Balon.

One last memory: DAMPHAIR was captured immediately after talking with Victarion about raising the isles against Euron. Minutes it seemed.

Oh yeah, pretty explicit confirmation that Euron raped Damphair, tough to hear. I feel oddly sympathetic to DAMPHAIR after the chapter.

Also, Euron impregnated bastard daughter of Shield Lord. She thinks she'll be his salt wife, but ends up with her tongue cut, lashed to ship

Aeron tells her something like, "Take heart, girl. We'll all be feasting in the Drowned God's hall soon." Pretty moving.

Chapter ends with DAMPHAIR lashed to the prow of ship sailing against the Redwynes
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A

Aiii

So not worth it
And I continue to give no shits about the Ironborn, hope they aren't too big a part of the final two books. Wouldn't mind a refocus on the main familes of the first few books.
 
K

kirblar

Member
gutshot said:
GRRM read a new sample chapter today. POV character was
the Damphair
.

Some tweets from @BryndenBFish summarizing it:
Click to expand...
So, uh-
Pree in the ship? The Warlocks were exactly what people were spec'ing re: Eurrario- book only twist?
 
F

Faddy

Banned
Spoilers for the chapter George read at Balticon

I think I am done with the books if that is the kind of crap George thinks makes a good chapter. For one it reads badly because it is Aeron retelling a story from his own memory. What is the point of strict 3rd person POVs if significant chunks are told in the form of flashbacks and then dreams within the flashback. So the actual construction of the chapter is the first issue.

The second is that Euron just pops up every few paragraphs to cackle about how evil he is. He killed his brothers, raped his brothers. It is basically a whole load of torture porn. He introduces a female character, has Euron impregnate her, wait a few months until she is showing and then has her tongue cut out and straps her to the prow of his ship. It is beyond grimdark.

Third is that we have yet more dreams and prophesies. There were already enough of these in the series without adding more speculation and foreshadowing.

Fourth. Euron is comic book villain at this point. His loyal crew of mutes, his magic armour, his over the top cruelty. He is a cartoon
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Faddy said:
Spoilers for the chapter George read at Balticon
Fourth. Euron is comic book villain at this point. His loyal crew of mutes, his magic armour, his over the top cruelty. He is a cartoon
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The Ironborn have all been comic book characters since AFFC. A lot of the Dornish characters are similar in that regard too.

I agree with most of your critiques, though for the most part it's just a continuation of trends from the past two books.
 
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