D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I hope my grandchildren will enjoy A Dream of Spring on release day, long after the Earth has taken me back
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
- Start date
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Considering he thought he could finish it before S6 originally, I doubt it will not come before S7.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Yea...I doubt it comes out this year. It won't be done in April, and when you add the 2-3 months required to prep for publication that puts you in June or July. Probably won't be done there either, so add a couple more months. Etc etc.
His 2016 schedule is scattered enough to throw off his progress
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/appearances/
Given his struggles with bad writing days how can he succeed when he's only home a couple months before hitting the road again. Those two months end up being him responding to missed emails/mail, taking offers, getting in the mindset to write, etc. And by the time he gets in the mood he struggles with a bad day or two, then it's time to go on the road.
His 2016 schedule is scattered enough to throw off his progress
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/appearances/
Given his struggles with bad writing days how can he succeed when he's only home a couple months before hitting the road again. Those two months end up being him responding to missed emails/mail, taking offers, getting in the mindset to write, etc. And by the time he gets in the mood he struggles with a bad day or two, then it's time to go on the road.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Well, that's certainly a disappointment.
I can feel his genuine frustration from reading that, so I can't get mad or anything. He wants this book done, and it's just taking longer than previous thought for. Hopefully he can finish it in time for a second half of the year release.
Yeah, same for me. I really know almost nothing about what happened in Season 5. It's not actually that hard to avoid spoilers from the show as long as you aren't going to places dedicated to it.
I can feel his genuine frustration from reading that, so I can't get mad or anything. He wants this book done, and it's just taking longer than previous thought for. Hopefully he can finish it in time for a second half of the year release.
Yeah, same for me. I really know almost nothing about what happened in Season 5. It's not actually that hard to avoid spoilers from the show as long as you aren't going to places dedicated to it.
I can't help but to think that maybe without the deadline he would've finished it or would be a lot closer to finishing it right now.
Now that he's not under the stress of that deadline, maybe he'll get more good days than bad days and deliver the book in 3-4 months which means a July or August release.
Of course the darkest timeline could still happen. Something like him deciding the re-write the entire thing and as such moving the release date to 2019.
Now that he's not under the stress of that deadline, maybe he'll get more good days than bad days and deliver the book in 3-4 months which means a July or August release.
Of course the darkest timeline could still happen. Something like him deciding the re-write the entire thing and as such moving the release date to 2019.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Hate watching isn't so bad. I do enjoy the show better now that I treat it more like a comedy. Hardhome was good stuff though.
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
Fall 2016/Early 2017 is my expectation
The show has been in such rapid decline for a while now. So even if some things get "spoiled," they will be spoiled in such a different atmosphere and setting, and with such a lacking context and backstory, that would just not be the same thing. Not too worried about it, I mostly just want to read TWOW asap! 
Not to mention that the show is so different at this point that we won't know what's what.
Not to mention that the show is so different at this point that we won't know what's what.
ASOIAF |OT| The Long Night
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Yep.
RobotChant
Member
even if he wasn't able to make the deadline, I wish he would still go all in on finishing up asap. But it seems like now that the deadline is removed, he's going back to his previous approach of take my time.
That is the most disappointing of all. The deadline seemed to have had a positive impact on him and his people, all pushing for a release this spring. Now it's back to normal.
On the bright side, the fact he felt he could finish the book last year is encouraging to hear.
That is the most disappointing of all. The deadline seemed to have had a positive impact on him and his people, all pushing for a release this spring. Now it's back to normal.
On the bright side, the fact he felt he could finish the book last year is encouraging to hear.
Basileus777
Member
It doesn't seem like the deadline actually resulted in him having much progress, so I'm not sure why you think it had such a positive effect.
RobotChant
Member
He didn't finish, but we don't know how much progress he made in the last few months attempting to meet his deadline(s). He cancelled events to focus on writing, which in itself is a positive. When he felt he'd miss the Halloween deadline and was then given an extra two months, he still felt he could do it. That sounds like he had a good grasp on what he wanted and needed to write and felt it was doable. Would any of this have come about had he not focused on finishing this year? Who knows.
Having a date and striving for it is much better than the "it's done when it's done" mantra. One asks you to focus while the other allows you to do what ever you feel like every day of the week, every month of the year. Since i want to read his book, one is better than the other.
Having a date and striving for it is much better than the "it's done when it's done" mantra. One asks you to focus while the other allows you to do what ever you feel like every day of the week, every month of the year. Since i want to read his book, one is better than the other.
Doesn't sound like it's coming before the end of 2016 at this rate...
It sounds quite the opposite, like it had no impact on the writing process itself but only managed to negatively impact GRRM himself. Sounds like that would make the whole thing even more stressful.
Nice.
Something something poetry,
It sounds quite the opposite, like it had no impact on the writing process itself but only managed to negatively impact GRRM himself. Sounds like that would make the whole thing even more stressful.
Nice.
It's fitting that this thread reaches the lock-point of 20k posts with news that there's no release in sight for WOTW.
Something something poetry,
I have a couple questions about the released chapters for The Winds of Winter. I'll spoil just in case people don't want to read them.
I just finished reading six unreleased chapters: Theon, Arianne, Barristan, Tyrion, Mercy, and Alayne. I know there are others as well, read by GRRM at conventions. There's another Tyrion, Barristan, and Arianee plus a Victarian. Are these available anywhere? Also, when GRMM releases these early chapters, do they make their way into the next took unchanged? Or are they normally rough drafts?
Oh, and a white dragon!? What the hell is this white dragon that Tyrion sees!?
Oh, and a white dragon!? What the hell is this white dragon that Tyrion sees!?
Cesare Borgia
Banned
All the released chapters can be found here. Some are in different formats though (youtube, Google Play, etc)
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/wiki/twow
In terms of the question:
Seems like heavy handed foreshadowing that Tyrion will ride Viserion (the white dragon).
RobotChant
Member
Going by what he's done previously, he may make changes. Old reddit thread that details some of the changes in the released version of ADWD compared to the sample chapters read/released: *link may contain TWOW sample chapter spoilers.*
Bots are better than you
Banned
Man, this day keeps delivering.
Power failure, resulting in a dead alarm clock and me oversleeping
Waiting more than an hour for a simple blood test at the doctor
Arriving ages late at work
No water at the work building due to a broken main pipe
No NX news at all, or anything interesting from Nintendo's QA last night (expected, still sad)
... aaaand now there a big chance that TWoW might even miss 2016.
Really torn wether to wait for the book to drop or watch S6 of the show ... as a book reader who doesn't like some things the show has been doing, that sucks.
Power failure, resulting in a dead alarm clock and me oversleeping
Waiting more than an hour for a simple blood test at the doctor
Arriving ages late at work
No water at the work building due to a broken main pipe
No NX news at all, or anything interesting from Nintendo's QA last night (expected, still sad)
... aaaand now there a big chance that TWoW might even miss 2016.
Really torn wether to wait for the book to drop or watch S6 of the show ... as a book reader who doesn't like some things the show has been doing, that sucks.
What happened today to make you think that? Couldn't see anything on Martins Livejournal
Bots are better than you
Banned
Today nothing, i just caught up to the stuff from monday, you know, about missing deadlines, still not finished, much to write and GRRM's schedule for 2016, etc.
You gave me quite the scare for a moment!
Incandenza
Banned
Tell me about it! Every time I go to this page I see posts like "Sad news" and "Heart breaking
" and I think oh god the dream is deadI finally finished reading ADWD (after start reading the series in 2011, and having a 5 year gap when I decided a couple of weeks ago it was time to finish reading it before I get bombarded by MORE spoilers) and I can finally wander through this thread with no fear.
The epilogue was a nice way to finish, but apart from that, from AFFC onwards this series could be called A Song of Cliff and hangers, amirite?
Now let me wait another 5 years so I can read TWOW. By then I will have forgotten everything I already read and will have to resort to using the wiki to remind myself of who all the secondary characters are supposed to be (again).
The epilogue was a nice way to finish, but apart from that, from AFFC onwards this series could be called A Song of Cliff and hangers, amirite?
Now let me wait another 5 years so I can read TWOW. By then I will have forgotten everything I already read and will have to resort to using the wiki to remind myself of who all the secondary characters are supposed to be (again).
PHOENIXZERO
Member
So is there a new OT yet? This one is ready for a trip to a farm up-state.
Basileus777
Member
No one has made it yet.
Why would there be a new thread for the books if there isn't another one coming out for the foreseeable future. If you mean the season 6 thread for book readers, Steely said tomorrow.
When any thread reaches 20k posts a new version of it is created, this one is almost there. Iirc it started being done because some megathreads started causing server or search issues.
I think it's a good idea to make an OT2 for this thread. I have no interest in the show anymore, but I like to follow discussions about the books.
Basileus777
Member
Because this thread has 50 posts left before it needs to be locked.
Last 50 posts took 3 months and the only reason the last half dozen were made was to ask for a new thread and the follow up. People don't need to worry when threads will get closed and a follow up made and just post until they do if they actually have something to say.
Basileus777
Member
That's entirely because the TV show thread absorbs most of the book discussion even when it isn't supposed to. And someone needs to make the new thread, which is the entire point of this conversation.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
Dunno, I was so turned off by GRRM's TWOW admission that I tuned the series out. I was never outright disgusted during the AFFC wait or even the ADWD one. With those, Martin's updates plus knowing he was battling major structural problems made me say ok, it'll be out when it's out and it'll be good so why worry.
But now...having watched his schedule grow and him work on other stuff for so long it's clear he dug himself a time hole and he doesn't seem to know how to get out. Maybe the book comes out next year, but even if it does...that wold mean it took longer than ADWD correct? Despite him solving the Knot, the 5 year gap, etc etc.
We won't know until it's finished but I have a sneaking suspicion the problem is that he cannot structure the book properly due to the POVs all being back together as he continues to write overly long, unnecessary AFFC/ADWD-esque chapters. He has like 12-15 POVs or something. Yet Arianne has two chapters where she is basically traveling to meet someone, and by the end of the second chapter she still hasn't met him. Now extrapolate that type of pacing to just 5-6 minor characters and you're suddenly wasting hundreds of pages.
(for the record I do like AFFC and ADWD)
But now...having watched his schedule grow and him work on other stuff for so long it's clear he dug himself a time hole and he doesn't seem to know how to get out. Maybe the book comes out next year, but even if it does...that wold mean it took longer than ADWD correct? Despite him solving the Knot, the 5 year gap, etc etc.
We won't know until it's finished but I have a sneaking suspicion the problem is that he cannot structure the book properly due to the POVs all being back together as he continues to write overly long, unnecessary AFFC/ADWD-esque chapters. He has like 12-15 POVs or something. Yet Arianne has two chapters where she is basically traveling to meet someone, and by the end of the second chapter she still hasn't met him. Now extrapolate that type of pacing to just 5-6 minor characters and you're suddenly wasting hundreds of pages.
(for the record I do like AFFC and ADWD)
Basileus777
Member
He's never really gotten past the structural issues that have arisen post ASOS, the idea that it was just about the knot and everything would become smooth sailing was never something I felt was very credible. It doesn't help that he's older either, writers tend to become less prolific with age. A lot of the bloat in AFFC/ADWD felt like things GRRM wrote to keep himself interested despite all the frustration with the problems he was having. All those new characters and settings, all that lore and backstory, that may have come to him easier, but it also led to future problems because the scope and pacing of the story is out of control. I don't really see how he finishes this in two more books.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Two more books is a pipedream, and that's been obvious since Dance came out. While Martin hasn't officially said 8 books yet, I fully expect that to come along with the release date announcement for Winds, whenever that winds up happening.
The scope of the story is just too vast for things to be resolved in less than three books.
And given how even the latest chapters of Dance were introducing entirely new plotlines, I even wonder about if 8 books will be enough. If Martin had never said publicly how many books he was planning, I would assume from the story direction that Dance was the halfway point.
The scope of the story is just too vast for things to be resolved in less than three books.
And given how even the latest chapters of Dance were introducing entirely new plotlines, I even wonder about if 8 books will be enough. If Martin had never said publicly how many books he was planning, I would assume from the story direction that Dance was the halfway point.
Basileus777
Member
He wouldn't be the first author to get near the end of a series and force it to the finish line to be done with it. That's pretty much the only way he'd finish it in 7 or 8 books.
That's kind of what I would expect, except that there's no indication of in the ADWD sample chapters so far (the aforementioned two Arianne chapters are especially disheartening on this front). I suppose the most optimistic interpretation would be that these are all chapters that got moved out of ADWD and that since that book came out, he has begun trying to write faster-paced chapters. But I'd rather not get my hopes up (and obviously rushing through things too quickly wouldn't be good either, and I think Martin still wants to make this as good as he can, especially since it's clearly going to be remembered as his magnum opus one way or another).
Cesare Borgia
Banned
I'd love 8 books, assuming the end was done well. He could probably finish in seven but he'd have to really change his pacing. Martin has said that TWOW will be a bloodbath, POV numbers will decrease, and characters will begin meeting each other in order to decrease POV counts; as an example if Tyrion, Barristan, and Victarion were to survive the upcoming battle I'd imagine only Tyrion would remain as a POV. That process could speed things up...but it's not like he's going to kill half the cast by the mid point of TWOW. It'll take awhile, meaning the last book would have to carry a lot of plot weight to wrap things up.
My other concern about 7 books is somewhat simple. The last five books have featured multiple wars, battles, political alliances/betrayals, world building etc etc. It seems kind of weird that the second coming of the Long Night would only last for a book and a half at the most before the series ends. I of course am assuming that the Others storyline doesn't really take over TWOW until at least halfway; the first half seems like it'll be dominated by the two huge battles, the early Aegon battle (Martin said we'll get to see the Storms End battle), and the resolution of the AFFC/ADWD cliffhangers.
I don't expect the series to have a clean ending, IE the Others are defeated and Westeros begins picking up the pieces. But given that the last time mankind faced the Others it (allegedly) lasted decades, I don't see how 1.5 books will get us to a satisfying resolution. My idea of the ending is some type of bittersweet moment where the few remaining characters fight the Others to a bloody stalemate, and the thought of potential victory gives them the hope to carry on; thus "A Dream Of Spring." Of course that assumes there will be a battle, and this doesn't end in some form of diplomacy as that one Jon theory suggests.
My other concern about 7 books is somewhat simple. The last five books have featured multiple wars, battles, political alliances/betrayals, world building etc etc. It seems kind of weird that the second coming of the Long Night would only last for a book and a half at the most before the series ends. I of course am assuming that the Others storyline doesn't really take over TWOW until at least halfway; the first half seems like it'll be dominated by the two huge battles, the early Aegon battle (Martin said we'll get to see the Storms End battle), and the resolution of the AFFC/ADWD cliffhangers.
I don't expect the series to have a clean ending, IE the Others are defeated and Westeros begins picking up the pieces. But given that the last time mankind faced the Others it (allegedly) lasted decades, I don't see how 1.5 books will get us to a satisfying resolution. My idea of the ending is some type of bittersweet moment where the few remaining characters fight the Others to a bloody stalemate, and the thought of potential victory gives them the hope to carry on; thus "A Dream Of Spring." Of course that assumes there will be a battle, and this doesn't end in some form of diplomacy as that one Jon theory suggests.
RIP to this thread. One of the earlier Community threads I joined on GAF.
Too bad we can't send this one off with the announcement of the next book. ;_;
Do we even get to come out of Community Forum? Don't most long-lived OTs just increment and stay in Community?
ASOIAF |OT2| The Long Night
Too bad we can't send this one off with the announcement of the next book. ;_;
Do we even get to come out of Community Forum? Don't most long-lived OTs just increment and stay in Community?
ASOIAF |OT2| The Long Night
I feel like this is a major problem in many fictional conflicts - the authors want them to feel exciting and engaging and as a result they go by quite swiftly, which doesn't feel right given how prolonged real conflicts can get. Which is made even more jarring when the backstory features this huge, years/decades-long conflicts.
I really wonder if GRRM can manage to avoid this problem, or at least mitigate it (he already killed off/nearly killed off a few supposedly ancient houses within barely 3 years in-universe).
I like it.
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