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Adobe introduces MUSE: create websites without needing to know HTML

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A

Always-honest

Banned
http://www.macworld.com/article/161687/2011/08/muse.html

Muse is a freeform tool targeted to graphic designers and artists whose work has thus far appeared only in print, but who want to create interactive websites without having to deal with code.

Adobe envisions the Muse designer as someone who spends most of their time working in Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign. Creative pros will be able to use their current skills to combine images, graphics, and text in a process that is similar to working with InDesign.

"Muse was built with the print designer in mind," said Danielle Beaumont, group product manager at Adobe. "It allows designers who are not coders to create unique, professional websites as easily as producing a layout in InDesign. This is an end-to end-solution with interactive elements like slideshows, tool tips, remote rollovers, and lightboxes....It allows the designer to do things that only a hand-coder could do."
Click to expand...

Video
introdustion video here



I'd love this.

sorry if old.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
I was actually just thinking about this a few days ago. I have what my personal website would look like perfectly planned out to a T, but I have no fucking clue how to build it.
 
Tieno

Tieno

Member
Reading one of the comments

I know it's a beta, but have people actually looked at the code and images Muze outputs? It's absolutely horrible! 50.000 div's for a really small web page, tons of JavaScript for pages that don't even need ány JavaScript, and images that can be a factor 10 smaller if you optimize them manually.
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
Interesting but...
Tieno said:
Reading one of the comments

I know it's a beta, but have people actually looked at the code and images Muze outputs? It's absolutely horrible! 50.000 div's for a really small web page, tons of JavaScript for pages that don't even need ány JavaScript, and images that can be a factor 10 smaller if you optimize them manually.
Click to expand...
this is what I was afraid of
 
X

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Tieno said:
Reading one of the comments

I know it's a beta, but have people actually looked at the code and images Muze outputs? It's absolutely horrible! 50.000 div's for a really small web page, tons of JavaScript for pages that don't even need ány JavaScript, and images that can be a factor 10 smaller if you optimize them manually.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the HTML code MS Word generates, but worse.
 
A

Always-honest

Banned
Tieno said:
Reading one of the comments

I know it's a beta, but have people actually looked at the code and images Muze outputs? It's absolutely horrible! 50.000 div's for a really small web page, tons of JavaScript for pages that don't even need ány JavaScript, and images that can be a factor 10 smaller if you optimize them manually.
Click to expand...
I'm really interested in making my own site without having to learn the coding.
I'm sure it's not perfect yet, but it will improve through the years.

It's subscription based though...... not so sure i like that...

But i love Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. So i'd feel really at home.
 
U

ultron87

Member
Oh, so it's going to put out working pages. But the instant it breaks some poor web developer is going to have to deal with the worst formatted thing ever.
 
T

tycoonheart

Member
Tieno said:
Reading one of the comments

I know it's a beta, but have people actually looked at the code and images Muze outputs? It's absolutely horrible! 50.000 div's for a really small web page, tons of JavaScript for pages that don't even need ány JavaScript, and images that can be a factor 10 smaller if you optimize them manually.
Click to expand...

This is why I prefer to do web development from the ground up using nothing other than Notepad++.

Lot of HTML IDEs generate the most useless codes.
 
N

nib95

Banned
NICE! Using the BETA now. I've been dying for something like this since I'm primarily a Graphic Designer. Needs CMS support though.
 
J

Jerk

Banned
What has the Internet done to adobe? Why do they feel it necessary to continue to inflict all these terrible technologies upon it...
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
tycoonheart said:
This is why I prefer to do web development from the ground up using nothing other than Notepad++.

Lot of HTML IDEs generate the most useless codes.
Click to expand...


You are PRECISELY who this software is not aimed at though. Also, you could build and prototype a functioning website and then have a dev strip out and streasmline the extra garbage.
 
O

Orayn

Member
BlueTsunami said:
Dreamweaver 2.0?
Click to expand...
*Shudder* That damn piece of software. That damn piece of software and its awful, messy results.
hBneO.jpg
 
U

ultron87

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
You are PRECISELY who this software is not aimed at though. Also, you could build and prototype a functioning website and then have a dev strip out and streasmline the extra garbage.
Click to expand...

Well if you're going to do that you might as well just make a mock up and give it to the dev to just make in the first place instead of having them navigate whatever mess this thing spits out.

This sounds like it is pretty much only for someone who doesn't have a web developer handy but still wants a site.
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
What's the point of doing a website this way though? Call me crazy, but if you want a site without all the fuss why wouldn't you just use one of the few big CMSs that are out there, and not even fuck with anything. There are enough free themes you can find something you like, and if you feel like you can pay for something that might fit your needs more.

Maybe I'm just not seeing the need for this, and I've missed the boat. Yet with Squarespace, Wordpress, Joomla, Drupal, Tumblr, Blogspot etc... all out there in the wild why wouldn't you just use something like that unless you need something specific. In which case you or whoever you higher would make something from scratch which they wouldn't be using this type of tool anyways.
 
D

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Brettison said:
What's the point of doing a website this way though? Call me crazy, but if you want a site without all the fuss why wouldn't you just use one of the few big CMSs that are out there, and not even fuck with anything. There are enough free themes you can find something you like, and if you feel like you can pay for something that might fit your needs more.

Maybe I'm just not seeing the need for this, and I've missed the boat. Yet with Squarespace, Wordpress, Joomla, Drupal, Tumblr, Blogspot etc... all out there in the wild why wouldn't you just use something like that unless you need something specific. In which case you or whoever you higher would make something from scratch which they wouldn't be using this type of tool anyways.
Click to expand...

Because artists like to create their own stuff, as opposed to using templates.
 
B

BreakyBoy

o_O @_@ O_o
Ahahaha, it's the 90s all over again.

Fuck it. I kind of miss the chaos of Frontpage and Dreamweaver. Bring it Adobe! My body is ready.
 
A

Adam Scott Aukerman

Member
Tieno said:
Reading one of the comments

I know it's a beta, but have people actually looked at the code and images Muze outputs? It's absolutely horrible! 50.000 div's for a really small web page, tons of JavaScript for pages that don't even need ány JavaScript, and images that can be a factor 10 smaller if you optimize them manually.
Click to expand...

This is why I've never stuck with using an editor like this before. I was actually watching that demonstration video thinking to myself, "well, they've probably moved passed that in the 8 years or so since I've used one, so this could be interesting," but sadly they clearly haven't.

Oh well, Smultron it is.
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Divvy said:
Because artists like to create their own stuff, as opposed to using templates.
Click to expand...

You can create your own templates for all of those CMSs though. I fail to see what that has to do with anything.
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Brettison said:
What's the point of doing a website this way though? Call me crazy, but if you want a site without all the fuss why wouldn't you just use one of the few big CMSs that are out there, and not even fuck with anything. There are enough free themes you can find something you like, and if you feel like you can pay for something that might fit your needs more.

Maybe I'm just not seeing the need for this, and I've missed the boat. Yet with Squarespace, Wordpress, Joomla, Drupal, Tumblr, Blogspot etc... all out there in the wild why wouldn't you just use something like that unless you need something specific. In which case you or whoever you higher would make something from scratch which they wouldn't be using this type of tool anyways.
Click to expand...

Well, it's aimed pretty much toward people like me. I grew up in print design, and still use the tools more associated with that side of the house (NO MATTER HOW UNLIKELY) when I design stuff for my marketing purposes. It sounds like they're using InDesign flow as a basis for Muse, which sounds perfect for me. I want to design a site, and I have the content to fill it with, but I hate templates (hurts my pride) and my experiences with web designers has been very unpleasant thus far.

Then again, a market of one doesn't seem to be very profitable, to me...
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
WanderingWind said:
Well, it's aimed pretty much toward people like me. I grew up in print design, and still use the tools more associated with that side of the house (NO MATTER HOW UNLIKELY) when I design stuff for my marketing purposes. It sounds like they're using InDesign flow as a basis for Muse, which sounds perfect for me. I want to design a site, and I have the content to fill it with, but I hate templates (hurts my pride) and my experiences with web designers has been very unpleasant thus far.

Then again, a market of one doesn't seem to be very profitable, to me...
Click to expand...

As my last post said though you can create your own template verses using a premade one using any of those CMSs though. That's what a shit ton of designers already do if you don't need a specialized back end. All of the modern CMSs basically do all of the "heavy" lifting for you, and you can create your own site look if your just an artist.

Not to be a hater, but have any of you ever actually looked into using say Drupal or Wordpress that are more artists than coders?
 
D

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Brettison said:
You can create your own templates for all of those CMSs though. I fail to see what that has to do with anything.
Click to expand...

Well, as an artist, I will have to admit that I have no idea how one would use a CMS even after reading about it. The appeal for this type of software like Muse for me would be that it looks similar to any other media editor, like photoshop, that I already know how to use. Granted if I were making a professional site for a business or whatever I would certainly just pay someone to do it. However, if I'm making say a portfolio site, I would like to just do it myself. Granted, this is only if the software works well, and that demo and the user comments don't really inspire much confidence.

EDIT: I have use Wordpress, but even with that, to get specifically what I need, I still needed to learn more coding than I wanted.
 
S

survivor

Banned
This has no use to me since I'm a developer and can't design for shit, but I guess it could be helpful for print designers like Adobe is targeting. I'm just not sure that the code generated will be good at all.

Out of curiosity, is this targeted at designers to use it for personal reasons or professional work? If you are hired for your design work, you are not expected to code, and if you want this to build a portfolio online, I'm sure there are other ways to do it without paying a subscription.
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Brettison said:
As my last post said though you can create your own template verses using a premade one using any of those CMSs though. That's what a shit ton of designers already do if you don't need a specialized back end. All of the modern CMSs basically do all of the "heavy" lifting for you, and you can create your own site look if your just an artist.

Not to be a hater, but have any of you ever actually looked into using say Drupal or Wordpress that are more artists than coders?
Click to expand...

I'm sure those are fine, too. Another entry into the market, especially one build with artists in mind, sounds cool. I mean, this thing will live and die by the GUI. Will it be laid out like Photoshop/InDesign? If so, I'm familiar with those two programs, so it'd be more natural to me.

But again, I'm not saying anything negative about other programs of this type. I don't know much about them. Just that they way Adobe is selling this sounds interesting to me.
 
C

ckohler

Member
All these WYSIWYG solutions are about lock-in. Sure, you can build a working website easily and quickly with them but then you can't make changes without them. You're essentially locked-in to forever using that software as long as that site exists.

You better hope it does everything you want and if something breaks, you have to rely on the software to fix it. Good luck with that. Sure, you could try editing its machine generated HTML, CSS, and Javascript outside the GUI but when you see code like this:

Code: 
<div class="grpelem" id="n37"><!-- group -->
      <div class="grpelem" id="n38"><!-- group -->
       <div class="PamphletWidget widget_invisible grpelem" id="n39"><!-- group -->
        <div class="popup_anchor">
         <div class="ContainerGroup" id="n40"><!-- stack box -->
          <div class="Container grpelem" id="n41"><!-- group -->
           <div class="PamphletWidget widget_invisible grpelem" id="n42"><!-- group -->
            <div class="ThumbGroup grpelem" id="n43"><!-- none box -->
             <div class="popup_anchor">
              <div class="Thumb popup_element" id="n44"><!-- simple frame --></div>
             </div>
             <div class="wrap"></div>
            </div>
            <div class="popup_anchor">
             <div class="ContainerGroup" id="n45"><!-- stack box -->
              <div class="Container grpelem" id="n46"><!-- column -->
               <div class="colelem" id="n47"><!-- group -->
                <div class="grpelem" id="n48"><!-- group -->
                 <div class="grpelem" id="n49"><!-- group -->
                  <div class="grpelem" id="n50"><!-- simple frame --></div>
                  <div class="grpelem" id="n51"><!-- group -->
                   <div class="grpelem" id="n52"><!-- group -->
                    <div class="grpelem" id="n53"><!-- content -->
                     <h4 class="heading-4" id="n55">Share this video</h4>

... you know to just back away or start over.

Look, there's nothing wrong with building a small site in a tool like this as long as you are willing to be chained to it. It's no surprise this is a subscription service. Use it once and they've got you by the balls.
 
X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
Tieno said:
Reading one of the comments

I know it's a beta, but have people actually looked at the code and images Muze outputs? It's absolutely horrible! 50.000 div's for a really small web page, tons of JavaScript for pages that don't even need ány JavaScript, and images that can be a factor 10 smaller if you optimize them manually.
Click to expand...
This is common in WYSIWYG web creators, awful code.

nVidiot_Whore said:
WYSIWIG HTML designers have been around for ages... why are people acting like this is some tool they've been "waiting for"?
Click to expand...
Good question.
 
A

Always-honest

Banned
nVidiot_Whore said:
WYSIWIG HTML designers have been around for ages... why are people acting like this is some tool they've been "waiting for"?
Click to expand...
Nobody is acting like that. It's just nice to work with software you know and create something like you want as a designer and create it fast. I'm just curious what i can make with it. You won't replace true codework with this.
 
N

nVidiot_Whore

Banned
Always-honest said:
Nobody is acting like that. It's just nice to work with software you know and create something like you want as a designer and create it fast. I'm just curious what i can make with it. You won't replace true codework with this.
Click to expand...

I suppose familiarity with ADOBE products is nice.

But if you've had a need for WYSIWIG HTML, it's a crowded market, and using a brand new tool might not be the best bet.
 
D

DataStream

Member
This is aimed squarely at designers, people who think purely in terms of design and layout... people who do not think the way that effective HTML coders do.

I think even people who are hardcore handcode or die types will like this tool for rapid prototyping, you can throw things together very quickly with it.

I work on the hosting platform behind the application and very closely with the Muse team itself, so feel free to send me any feedback (preferably via PM as its easier to isolate).
 
D

Dennis

Banned
Tieno said:
Reading one of the comments

I know it's a beta, but have people actually looked at the code and images Muze outputs? It's absolutely horrible! 50.000 div's for a really small web page, tons of JavaScript for pages that don't even need ány JavaScript, and images that can be a factor 10 smaller if you optimize them manually.
Click to expand...
Seems like someone is nervous....

I can imagine using this if it turns out alright. I would like to be able to make reasonably servicable websites without having to code. I just don't have the time.
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
DataStream said:
This is aimed squarely at designers, people who think purely in terms of design and layout... people who do not think the way that effective HTML coders do.

I think even people who are hardcore handcode or die types will like this tool for rapid prototyping, you can throw things together very quickly with it.

I work on the hosting platform behind the application and very closely with the Muse team itself, so feel free to send me any feedback (preferably via PM as its easier to isolate).
Click to expand...

I'll volunteer for the beta. I'm basically your target market!
 
T

The Albatross

Member
Tieno said:
Reading one of the comments

I know it's a beta, but have people actually looked at the code and images Muze outputs? It's absolutely horrible! 50.000 div's for a really small web page, tons of JavaScript for pages that don't even need ány JavaScript, and images that can be a factor 10 smaller if you optimize them manually.
Click to expand...

Sounds not that unlike Photoshops Export For Web with the CSS/XHTML plugin.
 
L

Londa

Banned
Bleh, I will just take web design classes so I won't be pidgon held in to using these type of software.
 
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