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[Syriel]

People want top-tier service, but repeatedly refuse to pay for it when options are there.

Should airlines be regulated once again? That would mean higher levels of service, guaranteed seats, guaranteed jobs (and profits), but at higher costs for consumers.

The market has driven a race to the bottom, but is the market rational in this case? Should it get what it wants? Or it is the result of millions of individuals all looking out for their own best interest at the cost of the quality of the overall system?

Cheaper tickets were the primary motivation for the 1978 Airline Deregulation Act, a bill spearheaded by former Senator Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) and implemented by Kahn, who became CAB Chairman. The 1978 law has delivered what was promised. Adjusted for inflation, average airfares are almost 40 percent lower than in 1979, including fees for checked bags and the like.

Apart from electronics, almost no other familiar good or service can claim that kind of result. Almost 90 percent of all adult Americans have flown, and nearly 50 percent have flown during the last 12 months. We have democratized travel once available only to the rich.

Consumer demand, not airline conspiracy, has produced the current economy-class layout. Back in 2000, American Airlines reconfigured all 700 of its jets to provide "More Room throughout Coach." In order to make the initiative revenue-neutral, American sought to charge roughly 2-percent more per ticket. The "More Room" initiative failed; people loved the space, but would not pay a few bucks for it.

Since then, airlines have split the coach cabin and now charge a premium to the small group that prefers more space. This and other "unbundling" of airfares has increased revenues, while giving people choices that airline market research continually tells us customers want.

Politicians and cranky media tell us that "bumping" (involuntary denied boarding) happens all the time, but last year the Department of Transportation (DOT) reported just over 44,000 bumpings out of nearly 660 million passengers, or 0.62 per 10,000 passengers. To understand how small a percentage that is, think of it this way: If you flew one flight every day, it would be 44 years before you would get bumped.

Airlines cannot ignore the Washington sentiment, which has been made clear in hearings in House and Senate committees last week. Sympathetic members like Rep. Bill Shuster (R-Pa.) warned carriers to improve or face some form of re-regulation.

Even former American Airlines CEO Bob Crandall, one of the most successful airline executives after deregulation, recently said, "Airlines have become very much like utilities essential to all, akin to electricity and telecommunications providers, and an appropriate mix of regulation and free-market principles ought to be used to limit potential abuses."

Source:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/airline-service-you-get-what-you-pay-for/ar-BBAWFwh

 

[UnemployedVillain]

So how do international airlines manage to have better service despite being relatively cheaper?

 

[TheMan]

So how do international airlines manage to have better service despite being relatively cheaper?

employees probably get paid a lot less

 

[sant]

So how do international airlines manage to have better service despite being relatively cheaper?

Talking out of my ass here, but population density probably has a lot to do with it

 

[Syriel]

employees probably get paid a lot less

That is one big reason US employees threaten to go on strike whenever a US carrier opens a base in Asia.

 

[numble]

So how do international airlines manage to have better service despite being relatively cheaper?

Their employees are paid based on their local labor market conditions.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

Where is my "name your own price"???

 

[GoldenEye 007]

So how do international airlines manage to have better service despite being relatively cheaper?

Pretty confident some get government welfare.

 

[Escape Goat]

Air travel is essential to all? Flying is too expensive even if it is cheaper than 35 years ago. Somebody please invent cold fusion or mass effect generators or something.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

I pay pretty reasonable fares and get amazing service. I just don't fly garbage like United, Delta, etc.

I think people who make a direct correlation with competitive fares and poor service just haven't really flown all that many airlines. With Americans especially I feel like many have really only flown the old American standbys that literally everyone has known are shit for ages.

 

[Drkirby]

So how do international airlines manage to have better service despite being relatively cheaper?

Could the US have higher regulatory and safty standards?

 

[Mendrox]

Air travel is essential to all? Flying is too expensive even if it is cheaper than 35 years ago. Somebody please invent cold fusion or mass effect generators or something.

Wat flying is cheap as fuck. Germany -> Tokyo cost me 380 Euros for Emirates.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Could the US have higher regulatory and safty standards?

It really doesn't have anything to do with regulatory and more to do with a cultural problem.

In general service in the US is shittier than what you get in a lot of different countries. It's not regulation that causes you to get amazing service in basically every single restaurant in Japan all while paying zero tip while often getting shitty service in the US while they still expect you to pay the customary 18-20%. Also minimum wage here is higher plus they get tips.

 

[Tristam]

Their employees are paid based on their local labor market conditions.

Are British Airways employees paid much less than, say, United employees?

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

And still unaffordable.

 

[Nuu]

Probably the only deregulation, apart from the phone deregulation, that I support since then.

I don't give a shit about "service", just take me from point A to point B.

 

[Dhx]

Here is a good article I posted in the Delta overbooking thread:

How Airline Ticket Prices Fell 50% in 30 Years (and Why Nobody Noticed)

 

[IdreamofHIME]

So how do international airlines manage to have better service despite being relatively cheaper?

The Arab airlines are being heavily subsidised by their rulers.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

Why are flights so cheap in Europe? I can get from London to Milan for like $30 on a good day. $100 from Glasgow to Moscow but it's like $89 minimum from Vegas to Orange County.

 

[always crazy bacon]

The gulf in service between international flights that I often use and domestic US fights is huge.

I think when discussing this people need to specify what type of flight they are using.

 

[Kite]

So how do international airlines manage to have better service despite being relatively cheaper?

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/how-does-ryanair-money-29102012.html
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/01/travel/asia-low-cost-carriers/

I found a few articles on generally how they do it in Europe and Asia. The Ryanair article was interesting, they used some strategies I didn't even think of.

tl;dr Use one type of plane, Turn aircraft around fast, avoid flying to airports near cities cus of higher fees and instead fly to out-of-city airports, charging for extra baggage leads to less weight and less moving luggage in and out of the hold, fees up the ass, fees for everything so once you add it all up the ticket isn't actually that cheap, work your people and equipment hard, charge employees for uniforms and training instead of providing it and more, keep the plane full.

 

[numble]

Are British Airways employees paid much less than, say, United employees?

Yes, based on public data. A United Airlines flight attendant starts at $27/hour which steadily rises to $63/hour by the 13th year (there are also inflation adjustments). Here is a summary of their labor contract: https://ourcontract.org/upload/7-2-16-TA-SummaryFINAL.pdf

The British Airways flight attendants just went on strike this year over "poverty pay":

British Airways new cabin crew employees join what is called ‘Mixed Fleet', where despite promises that pay would be 10 per cent above the market rate, basic pay starts at just £12,000 with £3 and an hour flying pay. Unite has seen no evidence from the company of crew achieving anywhere near the advertised potential rate of £21,000 – £25,000 for the job.

- See more at: http://www.unitetheunion.org/campaigning/end-poverty-pay-at-british-airways/#sthash.807fCXx2.dpuf

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2017/01/air-strike

The Unite union, which represents many of them, claims that average pay in the mixed fleet is £16,000 ($19,500) per year. BA disputes the figure, insisting that no-one receives less than £21,000 per year.

 

[bachikarn]

Here is a good article I posted in the Delta overbooking thread:

How Airline Ticket Prices Fell 50% in 30 Years (and Why Nobody Noticed)

Interesting plot:

I think it highlights why I feel prices have gone up. I started flying more regularly around 2009, and I have noticed dramatic increases in prices year over year while flying to see my parents for Christmas. That graph post 2009 shows that. But I never realized how historically cheap they have been.

 

[Fenderputty]

I'm 6'9" tall. When I flew transatlantic to Europe I nearly killed myself. There was no economey+ available though and I can't afford a 500% markup to business class. I would kill for an opportunity to pay 50-100% more to have more room.

 

[rrvv]

employees probably get paid a lot less

So US Airlines employees get paid more but they threat passengers worse than international airlines employees.

 

[HoodWinked]

europe is nearly double the population of the united states and is about half the size. they're going to have way more flights alot more competition more volume, thus cheaper fares.

 

[knitoe]

So US Airlines employees get paid more but they threat passengers worse than international airlines employees.

I could be wrong, but airline employment aren't seen as a glamous / well paying career in the US anymore while most of the rest of the world still does. Thus, US workers have a "lets just get my work done and get paid" mindset while the world will want to go the extra mile.

 

[witchedwiz]

Why are flights so cheap in Europe? I can get from London to Milan for like $30 on a good day. $100 from Glasgow to Moscow but it's like $89 minimum from Vegas to Orange County.

Check the local flight..
Say Milan to bari....

 

[R10Neymarfan]

I say rid of the protectionism of US airlines. If we get foreign airlines to compete on the domestic market, this oligopoly of crap these airlines seem to have as service will go away.

 

[ChouGoku]

So is it the same problem with video games and dlc, where the root is that prices have stagnated under inflation but wages haven't risen so consumers aren't willing to pay higher prices.

 

[platakul]

Nationalize air and rail travel

 

[Tall4Life]

So I guess my near panic attack because my dad and I were bumped from an overbooked INTERNATIONAL flight with no alternative in sight which almost caused me to miss my midterms was totally for nothing and not justified, because the flight was cheaper, ok OP!

 

[brian577]

Really don't give a shit about "top tier" service, I just want to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible.

 

[Dhx]

So I guess my near panic attack because my dad and I were bumped from an overbooked INTERNATIONAL flight with no alternative in sight which almost caused me to miss my midterms was totally for nothing and not justified, because the flight was cheaper, ok OP!

The majority are willing to trade amenities and the remote possibility of being bumped for cheaper airfare, yes. Spirit Airlines is a thing for a reason.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Airline Fares are ~40% Lower than 1979; You Get What You Pay For

Run that one by people that paid for seats.

 

[Dreadnought]

europe is nearly double the population of the united states and is about half the size. they're going to have way more flights alot more competition more volume, thus cheaper fares.

I don't think that map is really accurate. Europe land mass is 3.9 million miles^2. United States is 3.8 million miles^2

 

[diehard]

I don't think that map is really accurate. Europe land mass is 3.9 million miles^2. United States is 3.8 million miles^2

It is, that is only western Europe, less than half of Europe's land mass.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

So how do international airlines manage to have better service despite being relatively cheaper?

Heavy subsidies.