Am I overreacting? RE: being called a "maricon" by an NPC in a game
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Journeywalker
Member
Honest question for Spanish-speaking GAF: which is worse, being called "maricon" or "mariposa"?
Maricón. No one actually will use Mariposa as a slur in Spain, even if it can be used like it.
Would you rather be called a "faggot" or a "butterfly?"
What latin country uses mariposa as an insult anyway lol
I have heard mariposón, not mariposa.
Maricón is probably the worst homophobic insult, at least in Spain. Although gay people use between them sometimes to call to a friend. ¡Hey, maricón!
Journeywalker
Member
I guess it's a Mexican slang per urban dictionary. If I have the correct impression, it's analogous to "fairy" in American english.
Uh, i'm pretty fine with bad guys being bad. That includes racism\sexism\violence\whatever.
Media shouldn't be sanitized.
TBiddy
Member
I concur. The real world is a nasty place, and I'd expect my games/movies/whatever to reflect that.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Can I make this point?
On paper, I am not offended by the idea of a bad person saying bad things. it's the difference that makes me okay with Mr. Plinkett saying "tranny" (though mind you the fact that he is so well-loved makes it less okay for me) but not when Rich Evans says it. It makes sense, it's realistic.
The problem comes when there is, in fact, a more permissive attitude as far as sexual orientation-based slurs and gender identity-based slurs goes. This is not me saying "I wanna see the n-word more often!", it is me saying "it is more okay to say tranny or faggot than the n-word." It's an easy target, and ties in with my Plinkett comment - the man has said tranny at least twice, but he has never said the n-word.
TC isn't even offended, they made that pretty clear.
On paper, I am not offended by the idea of a bad person saying bad things. it's the difference that makes me okay with Mr. Plinkett saying "tranny" (though mind you the fact that he is so well-loved makes it less okay for me) but not when Rich Evans says it. It makes sense, it's realistic.
The problem comes when there is, in fact, a more permissive attitude as far as sexual orientation-based slurs and gender identity-based slurs goes. This is not me saying "I wanna see the n-word more often!", it is me saying "it is more okay to say tranny or faggot than the n-word." It's an easy target, and ties in with my Plinkett comment - the man has said tranny at least twice, but he has never said the n-word.
TC isn't even offended, they made that pretty clear.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
Mexicans (like myself) are always talking shit to each other, maricon is not that bad but for a board that prides itself for not offending anyone I have to scratch my head at this shit.
Not offense but to just let it fly? Dunno I am with the OP.
Not offense but to just let it fly? Dunno I am with the OP.
A Link to the Past
Banned
There is a large enough contingency of posters who do fall on the other side of the aisle, where they complain about "PC police" and "outrage culture" (which didn't occur here, but if they made that distinction, that would involve having a response that was more than emotional).
Yeah, I know. I live in NM, which is the state where spanish is spoken along English the most, percentage wise.
I just find it wierd it was only spoken in spanish, not in english.
Yeah, I totally agree. My argument was just about this game only having it in spanish. It is certainly a pull and tug with realism vs being offensive for no reason. I haven't seen too many games cross the line into the latter, so I don't think we've gone too far yet.
A Link to the Past
Banned
But there is more nuance to this than "villain said a dirty word." It can also be said that a lot of writers will go that far when writing villains as far as certain groups are concerned, but they also may not go that far and will try to avoid the n-word in casual conversation. This is of course not universally true, but it does happen, so it makes me question the "we're just trying to make it realistic" angle.
Admiral Woofington
Member
As someone who comes from a Spanish speaking country, we use it similarly to how the term 'fag' was largely used in youth culture in the US before it became less ok to say it. Except maybe it's more widespread and probably more acceptable. Maricon/marica is used almost as often as 'malparido' (ill-birthed) to identify someone. You use it as a derogatory term for friends the same way you talk shit with them in English, and when you're angry at someone. But when you're angry at someone nobody is reading the literal definition. You're just hearing "he's insulting me with one of the many insults"
For what it's worth even with hyper conservative family members down there I've never seen them use the term to insult a gay person. They call gay people "gay" or "homosexual" though.
For what it's worth even with hyper conservative family members down there I've never seen them use the term to insult a gay person. They call gay people "gay" or "homosexual" though.
Starfish Hero
Member
1. As stated in the thread, asshole NPCs using slurs isn't at all unprecedented, so I wouldn't say this particular instance is odd
2a. Foreign language insults almost never have a 1:1 translation, so it's a bit more nuanced than "maricon = faggot".
2b. I don't think "maricon" was used to sneak homophobia in or to avoid using "faggot" because of some supposed double standard.
2a. Foreign language insults almost never have a 1:1 translation, so it's a bit more nuanced than "maricon = faggot".
2b. I don't think "maricon" was used to sneak homophobia in or to avoid using "faggot" because of some supposed double standard.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
So OP should just man up?
That kind of shit does not faze me at all but it seems hypocritical on here.
That kind of shit does not faze me at all but it seems hypocritical on here.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Read it as you want, I'm not saying man up I'm explaining why the use is way more common down there than the literal equivalent down here is. I can go to a party filled with family friends all from Spanish speaking countries and say it like 'qiubo marica' to a person walking in and nobody would bat an eye unless they were raised with more clean language. because it's so use. If you tried the same with the equivalent in the US, even before it became more taboo to use because it is disrespectful, folks would have still turned to you or told you to watch your language. Spanish folks, at least Colombian friends and family I've had, are extremely dirty talkers even among family and friends.
Is it OK? No. But remember some of these countries still do black face in their culture during parades and nobody really thinks it through. Itll be a long time before some of these Spanish speaking countries reach a level of respect of others.
BattleMonkey
Member
What else should he do?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
He wasn't complaining.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
I was raised the same, so I have no dog in this fight, but to just brush aside OP's concern seems hypocritical to me. Bah i am out mayne.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Can you at least quote who is complaining so we know you're not responding to imaginary people? Well, quote someone other than yourself that is. Because your post is the most complainy I see.
I dunno, if the game is the based on reality or a modified version of reality, and you are trying to portray ignorant racist assholes (or just an assholes, really) you should probably use insults ignorant assholes use.
It doesn't mean the writers or the work itself supports these insults or encourage them, do people truly lack of the ability to contextualize slurs and bad things?
Sparkedglory
Member
I wouldn't sweat it too much.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Seriously lol. It's as if some people don't have any self-awareness
My thoughts exactly.
Hispanic! At the Disco
Member
"Uh yea aren't we all?"
Oppo
Member
which people. quote them.
malingenie
Member
Here is one:
From a conversation about an NPC in a game, about a term that is used jovially in my culture, this poster compared south america to apartheid. Called large swaths of people anti-gay. This.
A Link to the Past
Banned
ok
I'm just a-teasin'
But that's not exactly the common narrative thread of this discussion; respond to that post with criticism if you like, but if you are making a general response to that idea, make sure that it is what most people are saying on one side of the matter.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Mariposon maybe , but that sounds funny so its hard to offend somebody with that.
DirtyLarry
Member
The subtitles of the game actually said it meant something else, I forget what it said but it definitely said something else. It was right outside in the alley by HQ when I encountered it, and it was a women NPC saying it. I had mistakenly hit her with a melee attack. I felt I deserved it actually.
I grew up with a lot of Spanish people so I have heard the word used 100's of times over the years. I thought it was odd the game's subtitles said it was something else.
I did not think it was odd they used it.
I grew up with a lot of Spanish people so I have heard the word used 100's of times over the years. I thought it was odd the game's subtitles said it was something else.
I did not think it was odd they used it.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Yep. It's a word that's common enough where at this point it's just use as a blank insult/friendly term (on context) that it rarely applies to gay people.
It's not right, but I rarely see it used to actually call somebody gay as an insult.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Dominican here, it's usually thrown out a lot by us, but the meaning of the word (at least for us) has kinda lost its meaning. We usually use it to give shit to someone not to denigrate.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
No one has talked about banning or censorship except you.
I hope this forum can discuss these things like adults one day. Not everything is high stakes changes to your life. It can just be people talking about something interesting or potentially controversial in a game.
DOWN
Banned
You have failed to comprehend the OP. It's pretty obvious he is pointing out that slurs are uncommon and not used in such a context in games untiljust this past month. He isn't at all suggesting asshole NPCs are new.
Feel free to knock out some fools with a billiard ball to let off some of that pent up aggression.
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