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[Nirolak]

It seems that speculation in the previous thread about the $50-$75 million CryEngine license by Amazon was correct. They wanted to distribute the engine for free (albeit their own modified version), and thus needed an infinite license.

Lumberyard: http://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdU1s1FGTDY&feature=youtu.be
Gamasutra Article: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...w_free_highquality_game_engine_Lumberyard.php

Today Amazon has both announced and released a new, free game engine, Lumberyard, which offers deep integration with its Amazon Web Services server infrastructure to empower online play, and also with Twitch, its video game-focused streaming service.

That's right -- the engine, including its full source code, is completely free to download and use to make PC and console games. Amazon will not charge any kind of royalty or subscription fee.

Lumberyard is powerful and full-featured enough to develop triple-A, current-gen console games (and the company has signed official tools deals with Microsoft and Sony, so you can immediately build games for the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 with it.) Mobile support is coming down the road.

Lumberyard's core engine technology is based on Crytek's CryEngine. Amazon licensed the German studio's engine and got "full, unencumbered access to the technology" to build upon, says Mike Frazzini, vice president of Amazon Games.

However, Lumberyard represents a branch of that tech, and the company is replacing or upgrading many of CryEngine's systems. Future versions of CryEngine and Lumberyard will continue to diverge.

Developers at Amazon's Seattle and Irvine, California game studios are making improvements directly to the engine, and a central Amazon tech team that has drawn staff with backgrounds in both AWS and game engine development oversees the engine's progress.

At public beta launch, Lumberyard already has components that are not based on CryEngine. Aside from adding the AWS SDK to the engine -- allowing for native C++ access to its services -- Amazon has also brought in new low-latency networking code based on what Double Helix, the Southern California studio it acquired in 2014, developed for Xbox One fighting game Killer Instinct.

 

[mrklaw]

Well this is interesting.

I realise they are branching, but other than a short term gain, what does crytek get out of this? Surely they risk losing what few licensees they have. Maybe they think they can evolve cryengine into something even better, or are taking this as a way to get out of the engine market while making some money from it?

 

[Muskieratboi]

So, essentially:

"Hey Crytek, here's 80-ish Million Dollars, we're just gonna go and make our own Fork of CryEngine. With Blackjack and Hookers!"

 

[RetroDLC]

Cool, but why? I don't see how Amazon can profit from this, other than professional use of their cloud with it.

 

[Nirolak]

Well this is interesting.

I realise they are branching, but other than a short term gain, what does crytek get out of this? Surely they risk losing what few licensees they have. Maybe they think they can evolve cryengine into something even better, or are taking this as a way to get out of the engine market while making some money from it?

This was the deal that let them avoid bankruptcy and pay all the staff wages they were missing a year or two back.

Amazon took the opportunity to purchase ownership of their engine from them when they knew they couldn't refuse.

Cool, but why? I don't see how Amazon can profit from this, other than professional use of their cloud with it.

Essentially this gives them an engine for their own internal games while also letting them try to upsell game developers onto their cloud services and related solutions, yes.

 

[5taquitos]

Can't argue with more cheap engines available to indie devs.

 

[liliththepale]

huh. I wonder how difficult it would be to migrate a CryEngine project over to the Lumberyard engine. Is there even any reason to still use CE at this point?

 

[TheGoddamn]

Twitch integration means that "Twitch plays"-style chat commands are supported at an engine level, which the company calls ChatPlay; there's also JoinIn, which allows viewers to leap directly into online games alongside Twitch broadcasters as they stream.

The goal is "creating experiences that embrace the notion of a player, broadcaster, and viewer all joining together," Frazzini says. "It'll be some uncharted waters for sure, and there will be a lot of experimentation." That work is worth it, he argues, since "we see so much more vibrant virality and retention when a game has those hooks."

This stood out to me the most. Watching LPs, participating in Twitch, these are all valid ways to enjoy video games (I mean, we spend an almost shameful amount of time on NeoGAF ourselves instead of playing games), and having an engine that is so accessible on every level-- from the developers, to the players, the modders, and the watchers-- is exciting.

 

[Hazaro]

The included network stuff may be the biggest part of it. JoinIn supported on a game level with Twitch is pretty neat too.

 

[jmga]

Crytek desperately needed the money if they have allowed someone to fork and make Cryengine open source.

 

[Dahaka]

Unity trembles

 

[element]

Well this is interesting.

I realise they are branching, but other than a short term gain, what does crytek get out of this? Surely they risk losing what few licensees they have. Maybe they think they can evolve cryengine into something even better, or are taking this as a way to get out of the engine market while making some money from it?

money. they got money. crytek was on the verge of insolvency.

For Amazon while they won't make direct money off of it, they are tying many of their services into using it, either it be AWS or Twitch. You in the end are using services provided by Amazon that need to be paid for or you are generating content that Amazon can monetize.

Reading more on it, some of these services are awesome. GameLift sounds great!

Would have been nice if they released more sample content like Epic did when they came out with UE4. As well as perhaps shown off a 'working' game using the technology. "This is what you can do with Lumberyard! Play it now!"

 

[Mechazawa]

So, essentially:

"Hey Crytek, here's 80-ish Million Dollars, we're just gonna go and make our own Fork of CryEngine. With Blackjack and Hookers!"

In fact, forget the engine!

 

[Durante]

That's unexpected, at least for me.

They must either be planning to get into games heavily or believe that they can benefit a lot in their other branches by pushing them with this engine for an investment like this to make sense over, say, a normal engine licensing deal.

 

[ashecitism]

Interesting.

That's unexpected, at least for me.

They must either be planning to get into games heavily or believe that they can benefit a lot in their other branches by pushing them with this engine for an investment like this to make sense over, say, a normal engine licensing deal.

Well, they are making a third-person competitive game.

 

[Jackano]

Well played Amazon. They're quickly becoming a big player in the industry.

 

[anothertech]

Getting this asap. Thank you Amazon.

 

[malfcn]

Amazon continues to surprise gamers. Buying studios, engines, talent. Their final form could be scary.

 

[luffeN]

That was a cool video and hi @ David Adams! I liked the videos he did back when Darksiders 1 was launching.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Cool, but why? I don't see how Amazon can profit from this, other than professional use of their cloud with it.

The cloud is where the money is yo.

 

[Vash63]

That's unexpected, at least for me.

They must either be planning to get into games heavily or believe that they can benefit a lot in their other branches by pushing them with this engine for an investment like this to make sense over, say, a normal engine licensing deal.

Yeah, if you read the FAQ this ties very heavily into AWS. You can't use the engine on any other hosting services unless owned and operated by you, so that pretty much ties any game developer to AWS for multiplayer functionality unless they're big enough to have geolocated server rooms.

Also, it's not open source - you're signing a license to download the source code and are only allowed to distribute your projects in binary form.

 

[Vintage]

(talking about twitch integration) "<..> we can't even imagine what developers are going to do with this"

basically translates to "we literally don't know what's the use for it, but since we own twitch, we had to promote it."

Interesting stuff nonetheless, will check it out.

 

[bobbytkc]

Doesn't this basically kill cry engine?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Completely free? No royalties? Damn, Amazon. You're killing them all.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Completely free? No royalties? Damn, Amazon. You're killing them all.

They are counting on that AWS skrilla. Pretty smart really.

 

[Hazaro]

(talking about twitch integration) "<..> we can't even imagine what developers are going to do with this"

basically translates to "we literally don't know what's the use for it, but since we own twitch, we had to promote it."

Interesting stuff nonetheless, will check it out.

1) Chat inputs change the game (Some games do this already at a gameplay level, no not like TPP)
2) You can join into the same game someone on Twitch is streaming natively

 

[Saty]

How's the Cloud service integration going to impact online connectivity requirements for the games that use it?

 

[Alienous]

Crytek are really hurting, aren't they? Should have expected an arrangement like this.

Well anyway this is cool.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

They are counting on that AWS skrilla. Pretty smart really.

Oh yeah, of course. But it's optional, and don't need to use their AWS service and use your own servers. Definitely smart especially for those that don't want to deal with multiple services and just want everything with one company.

EDIT: However, they don't let you use other AWS services.

From their FAQ:

Q. Do I have to run my game on AWS?
No. If you own and operate your own private servers, you do not need to use AWS. You also don&#8217;t need to use AWS if your game does not use any servers. For example, if you release a free-standing single&#8208;player or local-only multiplayer game, you pay us nothing.

Q. Can my game use an alternate web service instead of AWS?
No. If your game servers use a non-AWS alternate web service, we obviously don&#8217;t make any money, and it&#8217;s more difficult for us to support future development of Lumberyard. By &#8220;alternate web service&#8221; we mean any non-AWS web service that is similar to or can act as a replacement for Amazon EC2, Amazon Lambda, Amazon DynamoDB, Amazon RDS, Amazon S3, Amazon EBS, Amazon EC2 Container Service, or Amazon GameLift. You can use hardware you own and operate for your game servers.

Q. Is it okay for me to use my own servers?
Yes. You can use hardware you own and operate for your game.

 

[°°ToMmY°°]

Crytek got some breathing room with amazon money, but they're gonna pay the price about it in the future. Although without amazon money they'd probably be bankrupt by now, so they got a few years more of life thanks to them.

 

[- J - D -]

I guess undercutting Unreal's subscription prices wasn't quite enough to save CryTek, and then UE4 went free (albeit with that 5% royalty) and that must've been a punch to the gut. So this Amazon deal is good for them? Maybe?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Another mystery solved!

I guess undercutting Unreal's subscription prices wasn't quite enough to save CryTek, and then UE4 went free (albeit with that 5% royalty) and that must've been a punch to the gut. So this Amazon deal is good for them? Maybe?

Deal was done a while back I think. this is where the repercussion begin.

 

[dude]

Nice, seems to be doing a whole lot of things better than Unity.
I'm quite happy the multi-platform free engine scene has gotten so crowded.

 

[element]

Cool, but why? I don't see how Amazon can profit from this, other than professional use of their cloud with it.

That could add up REALLY quick!!

Their own example shows you how this could make lots of money. FPS with 10,000 Daily Active Users (DAU) and 1,000 peak concurrent users would be $5,853.43 a month to run the servers. That is a small game, imagine something like ARK.

 

[StrategyFan]

"Amazon Lumberyard is a free AAA game engine"

what does this even mean?

 

[_machine]

EDIT: However, they don't let you use other AWS services.

No, that means that you can't use other service providers that provide similar services compared to the ones listed that are under AWS services. That is if I understood you correctly.

Interesting move though, it definitely smells like promotion for AWS (Azure afaik is doing quite well on games side so they might want more pull there) so I do hope that it also means more support on the engine side. CryEngine has definitely fallen out of favor with most developers for a myriad of reasons and it's been a huge risk to take for current generation consoles (Only one title has been shipped outside of Crytek's Ryse and others have been rumoured to have a lot of production problems on consoles specifically).

It also looks like there's a mandatory login for games on the engine:

Release builds require a player login method. You can write your own solution or use the provided sample code in the User Login: Default Gem located in the lumberyard_root_folder\dev\Gems\UserLoginDefault folder.

I am at work so I am not able to delve properly into the documentation, but there seems to be a lot of interesting stuff and I am definitely hoping that we see a resurgence of Crytek's super-impressive tech in more productions.

Crytek are really hurting, aren't they? Should have expected an arrangement like this.

Hurting is an understatement; they were about to go under without an investment. Few of my friends noped the hell out of there in the past. So for them it was a dire necessity amongst other reasons.

"Amazon Lumberyard is a free AAA game engine"

what does this even mean?

It's a game engine that's both royalty free and free of upfront costs that can support AAA size game productions in terms of production tools and rendering technology. Not sure what's hard to understand there?

 

[Oreoleo]

Crytek got some breathing room with amazon money, but they're gonna pay the price about it in the future. Although without amazon money they'd probably be bankrupt by now, so they got a few years more of life thanks to them.

Idk, it's not like devs were exactly lining up to use CryEngine, are they?

 

[kurahador]

The hell? Amazon essentially throwing money around for anyone willing to pick it up here. I wonder how the documentation and support will go for this engine.

Kingdom Hearts IV and FFXVI to use Lumberyard confirmed???

 

[gofreak]

Though you could roll your own before with AWS, Amazon have also announced a more turn-key cloud service for online game backends called GameLift:

https://aws.amazon.com/gamelift/

Amazon GameLift, a managed service for deploying, operating, and scaling session-based multiplayer games, reduces the time required to build a multiplayer backend from thousands of hours to just minutes. Available for developers using Amazon Lumberyard, Amazon GameLift is built on AWS’s highly available cloud infrastructure and allows you to quickly scale high-performance game servers up and down to meet player demand – without any additional engineering effort or upfront costs.

Sort of sounds like it's tied to Lumberyard at the moment but I can't imagine it staying that way.

 

[Bollocks]

"Amazon Lumberyard is a free AAA game engine"

what does this even mean?

what do you don't understand?

 

[neonille]

I can't seem to figure out what language is used for the coding...

 

[BrokenIcarus]

Wait, free? As in open source?
Is it on github?

This could just be the biggest thing ever!
Holy Shit!

 

[Bollocks]

There are no seat fees, subscription fees, or requirements to share revenue. You only pay for the AWS services you choose to use.

Wait a minute, does that mean it only works via AWS?

e:

Q. If I build a single-player game that uses no cloud connectivity, do I have to pay to use the engine?
No, in this case you would pay us nothing.

 

[ashecitism]

Wait, free? As in open source?
Is it on github?

This could just be the biggest thing ever!
Holy Shit!

It's not open source, you only get source code access.

http://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/faq/

Q. Do I really get source code access to Lumberyard?
Yes. Access to full C++ source code is included with the download of Lumberyard.

Q. Can I include Lumberyard&#8217;s tools so my players can build mods for my game?
Yes. Your right to redistribute Lumberyard in your game includes the right to redistribute pieces of the development environment in your game too. A list of redistributable components is included in the documentation. These rights also apply to companion products that you make available to end users to modify and create derivative works of your game. If you want to distribute Lumberyard components in source code form, please contact us.

Q. Is Lumberyard &#8220;open source&#8221;?
No. We make the source code available to enable you to fully customize your game, but your rights are limited by the Lumberyard Service Terms. For example, you may not publicly release the Lumberyard engine source code, or use it to release your own game engine.

 

[Popstar]

.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Wait, free? As in open source?
Is it on github?

This could just be the biggest thing ever!
Holy Shit!

It's not OPEN SOURCE. But it's free. Technically open source?

Q. Is Lumberyard &#8220;open source&#8221;?
No. We make the source code available to enable you to fully customize your game, but your rights are limited by the Lumberyard Service Terms. For example, you may not publicly release the Lumberyard engine source code, or use it to release your own game engine.

 

[_machine]

I can't seem to figure out what language is used for the coding...

C++ and "Flow Graph System" for visual scripting.

 

[gofreak]

Wait a minute, does that mean it only works via AWS?

I think it means IF your game uses any AWS services, you'll of course be charged for that - e.g. for any server stuff your game might need.

I don't think you're obliged to. I'd be surprised if you can't use your own non-AWS backend if you wish also, but I guess the idea is it's setup out of the box to work seamlessly with AWS services, to encourage devs to use them for their server needs.

But if you were just making a game with no centralised backend or whatever, I'm sure that's quite possible.

edit - FAQ confirms that anyway... 'However, there is no requirement to connect your game to the cloud'

 

[Bluth54]

Cool, but why? I don't see how Amazon can profit from this, other than professional use of their cloud with it.

Valve is basically doing the same thing (Source 2 will be 100% free you just need to sell your game on Steam along with any other marketplace you choose to sell it on). I'm sure Amazon is doing it for similar reasons as Valve, which is hoping to make money with selling the games created via the engine on their marketplace (and for Amazon I'm guessing they will charge extra for their web server infrastructure).

 

[KKRT00]

They bought HUNT: Horrors of the Gilded Age assets? Thats interesting.

---

(Only one title has been shipped outside of Crytek's Ryse and others have been rumoured to have a lot of production problems on consoles specifically).

Wanderer, Evolve, Everyone Gone Rapture and i'm pretty sure there was a 4th.