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[Urthor]

That's unexpected, at least for me.

They must either be planning to get into games heavily or believe that they can benefit a lot in their other branches by pushing them with this engine for an investment like this to make sense over, say, a normal engine licensing deal.

Ding ding ding


They're most likely vertically integrating, and the flipside of using this free engine is that you are probably locked into Amazon's online server business and services for whenever you use it. My bet is that the catch here is you can make any SINGLEPLAYER game royalty free.

A few MMOs, for example, that use the Cryengine and are therefore clients of Amazon's server business, and the business case solidifies. There was enough of a payback from the vertical integration to make this deal more than worth it.

Plus like they actually just wanted some in house tech because hey why not. Not having to pay Unreal Engine license fees every time you make a game stacks up after a point in time, many of the conglomerates are consolidating their hardware.

 

[element]

They bought HUNT: Horrors of the Gilded Age assets? Thats interesting.

No, they didn't. Crytek moved that to Frankfurt and killed it. Gunfire Games is working on original game, probably looks similar since it is the same art director and artists.

 

[ashecitism]

No, they didn't. Crytek moved that to Frankfurt and killed it. Gunfire Games is working on original game, probably looks similar since it is the same art director and artists.

Oh, so it got canned? There was no official word of it since they moved it there.

Also, Project X? http://gunfiregames.com/games/projectx/

 

[neonille]

C++ and "Flow Graph System" for visual scripting.

C++??? No thanks...

 

[element]

Oh, so it got canned? There was no official word of it since they moved it there.

Given we haven't heard anything since Aug of 2014 and Crytek has moved heavily into VR with The Climb and Robinson, I'd consider it dead.

This is probably Project X. Same art style as HUNT, but doubt it is HUNT. They also showed off a multiplayer FPS prototype in the video that looks nothing like their previous work.

 

[_machine]

Wanderer, Evolve, Everyone Gone Rapture and i'm pretty sure there was a 4th.

Oh you're right, sorry. I had completely forgotten that Wander and Everyone's Gone to Rapture were built on CryEngine. Evolve was the only non-Crytek title I could remember (I think I also only checked wikipedia a week ago or so, and it's definitely not the best source...). It's definitely better than just Evolve, but I still very little reason to doubt the rumors, even if just for the fact that Crytek's trouble must have put strain into the process of development support.

New asset pipeline and importer sounds like a well-needed improvement; CryEngine's importer just wasn't up to the standards in terms of efficiency and flexibility.

 

[ashecitism]

They bought HUNT: Horrors of the Gilded Age assets? Thats interesting.

---


Wanderer, Evolve, Everyone Gone Rapture and i'm pretty sure there was a 4th.

Not out yet, but Arkane Austin is using it for Prey 2, I think. At least that was the case years ago.

 

[Ushay]

Amazon continues to surprise gamers. Buying studios, engines, talent. Their final form could be scary.

Feels like Amazon may become a publisher / developer for the late gen, next gen. Which would be a welcome addition think.

 

[bltn]

Seems like they lock you in to using AWS for you backend, unless you self-host.

Q. Can my game use an alternate web service instead of AWS?
No. If your game servers use a non-AWS alternate web service, we obviously don’t make any money, and it’s more difficult for us to support future development of Lumberyard. By “alternate web service” we mean any non-AWS web service that is similar to or can act as a replacement for Amazon EC2, Amazon Lambda, Amazon DynamoDB, Amazon RDS, Amazon S3, Amazon EBS, Amazon EC2 Container Service, or Amazon GameLift. You can use hardware you own and operate for your game servers.

 

[spekkeh]

Damn, cryengine 100% free, thank you based Amazon (for consumers at least). Also, not a fan of Twitch, but that integration where crowds can determine the direction of the game and you can invite viewers to play with you is massively interesting.

 

[MrCunningham]

I can't say that I am against this. More free engines, the better.

This is actually kind of brilliant on Amazon's part... especially with the Amazon Web Services integration. Attract developers and pull them into Amazon's store front.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

Feels like Amazon may become a publisher / developer for the late gen, next gen. Which would be a welcome addition think.

I think FireTV will become a "console" in a few years.

 

[element]

Oh you're right, sorry. I had completely forgotten that Wander and Everyone's Gone to Rapture were built on CryEngine. Evolve was the only non-Crytek title I could remember.

State of Decay used CryEngine as well.

 

[desu]

Interesting!

I wonder if this will keep getting rendering improvements from Crytek (because I kind of would trust them more on this side than Amazon).

Other than that, horrible documentation and extra horrible asset pipeline (for Indies!) gives me doubts that this will be really adopted by the Indie scene. UE4 is just lightyears ahead and far more attractive if I were to make a game now.

Still interested to see how this turns out, the no royalities part is obviously huge. Especially if its a single player only game.

 

[_machine]

State of Decay used CryEngine as well.

Thanks, will need to create a proper list of C3 productions and their states for research purposes.

 

[Haunted]

That seems pretty fantastic.

More possible engines for devs to choose from.

 

[jmga]

Are we seeing a golden age of graphic engines?

- Unreal Engine 4
- Unity3d
- Cryengine
- Lumberyard
- Open Source 2(please Valve)

All of them free, with Linux support and two of them(3 if we count UE4) open source.

 

[Pif]

Explain to me like I'm five:

How much is amazon's cut on a piece of software you develop and publish?

 

[element]

So there is

Unity
Unreal Engine
Stingray (Autodesk)
CryEngine
Lumberyard
Source 2
Unigine

Any others (serious ones)?

How much is amazon's cut on a piece of software you develop and publish?

depending on the services you use. nothing.

Hypothetical example. If I made a single player game with no online systems (servers). Then I'd pay Amazon nothing, since I wouldn't be using their cloud services (AWS).

All of them free, with Linux support and two of them(3 if we count UE4) open source.

Free to use, not free to publish. Also from that list, only UE4 is open source (depot on github). Everything else is under license and can't be redistributed (Unity, CryEngine, Lumberyard aren't open source. TBD on Source 2).

 

[_machine]

Explain to me like I'm five:

How much is amazon's cut on a piece of software you develop and publish?

0%.

They require you to use AWS for backend services unless you build your own backend. No Amazon's competitor third-party solutions are allowed.

 

[gofreak]

Explain to me like I'm five:

How much is amazon's cut on a piece of software you develop and publish?

Zero.

If you use their web services for your games backend, you'll pay for that of course.

Reminds me, actually, if you're making a free to play game, Amazon will actually pay you for every minute a user plays your game when it's downloaded through their store. Unless they stopped that programme...

0%.

They require you to use AWS for backend services unless you build your own backend. No Amazon's competitor third-party solutions are allowed.

Ah, I guess there is some vendor lock in then. What about pure peer-to-peer networking? Is that OK, or must you use their web backends for any networking/multiplayer?

 

[KKRT00]

No, they didn't. Crytek moved that to Frankfurt and killed it. Gunfire Games is working on original game, probably looks similar since it is the same art director and artists.

I really hope You are wrong ;/ The Hunt looked great and after Warhammer End Times Vermintide i would gladly play more coop oriented loot games.

 

[FyreWulff]

tl;dr

it's actually free to use unlike Unreal and other engines, but you're locked into Amazon if your game uses any Amazon-cloud type functionality. You can't use Azure, etc. You are exempted if you run the servers for your game on your 'own' hardware.

The above limitation doesn't exist if you contact them to negotiate (to probably pay a fee to be able to use non-AWS)


So it's Free* but the asterisk is a bit smaller than the other ones.

 

[ashecitism]

Free to use, not free to publish. Also from that list, only UE4 is open source (depot on github). Everything else is under license and can't be redistributed (Unity, CryEngine, Lumberyard aren't open source. TBD on Source 2).

At last GDC Gabe said other engine manufacturers would be allowed to implement stuff from Source 2, if they wished.

 

[Nightengale]

Any others (serious ones)?.

Is Phyre serious? I

 

[Vanguard]

Heh, antivrius put the smackdown on a .dll in there a few mins after extracting it, somewhere in GoogleMock. Prob/most defo a false positive, just made me double take as I hardly ever see my av pop anything up.

Will be interesting to look at though, already too deep in my current project to change but nice having options for the future.

 

[element]

Is Phyre serious? I

Phyre is an engine in the more basic sense. These are full fledge (renderer, tools, importers, platform executables) in a single package. Phyre isn't that AFAIK.

 

[FyreWulff]

Free to use, not free to publish. Also from that list, only UE4 is open source (depot on github). Everything else is under license and can't be redistributed (Unity, CryEngine, Lumberyard aren't open source. TBD on Source 2).

UE4 is just Source Available. it's not Open Source.

 

[_machine]

Ah, I guess there is some vendor lock in then. What about pure peer-to-peer networking? Is that OK, or must you use their web backends for any networking/multiplayer?

P2P is fine, though you have to include a login system in the game, which you either do through AWS or your own system.

 

[jmga]

Free to use, not free to publish. Also from that list, only UE4 is open source (depot on github). Everything else is under license and can't be redistributed (Unity, CryEngine, Lumberyard aren't open source. TBD on Source 2).

Lumberyard is Open Source(haven't checked the license, but the download includes the source code).

Gabe said last GDC Source 2 will be Open Source.

 

[_machine]

Lumberyard is Open Source(haven't checked the license, but the download includes the source code).

Gabe said last GDC Source 2 will be Open Source.

Access to source code doesn't mean open source.

 

[FyreWulff]

Lumberyard is Open Source(haven't checked the license, but the download includes the source code).

Gabe said last GDC Source 2 will be Open Source.

Lumberyard is also Source Available, not Open Source.


If you can't branch the engine code and release it yourself, you can't even begin to call your engine Open Source.

Looking through the Lumberyard TOS, you are only allowed to post up to 50 lines of code publically when talking about it, for example.

 

[element]

Access to source code doesn't mean open source.

Was just going to say that.

Q. Is Lumberyard “open source”?
No. We make the source code available to enable you to fully customize your game, but your rights are limited by the Lumberyard Service Terms. For example, you may not publicly release the Lumberyard engine source code, or use it to release your own game engine.

Clearly not open source.

UE4 is just Source Available. it's not Open Source.

It is true it isn't open source, but far more open than any other current middleware engine. Considering the community additions to the github depot have been pretty incredible show how open it is. But true, it isn't open source in the same fashion as D3, Blender, Bootstrap.

 

[hooijdonk17]

The important question is, how friendly are the developer tools to newbies such as myself whose last coding experience was Turbo C?

 

[jmga]

Lumberyard is also Source Available, not Open Source.


If you can't branch the engine code and release it yourself, you can't even begin to call your engine Open Source.

Looking through the Lumberyard TOS, you are only allowed to post up to 50 lines of code publically when talking about it, for example.

Well, disappointed but not surprised, Amazon takes a lot from Open Source community but contributes with nothing.

Also the use of AWS is mandatory unless you host your own servers:

Q. Can my game use an alternate web service instead of AWS?

No. If your game servers use a non-AWS alternate web service, we obviously don’t make any money, and it’s more difficult for us to support future development of Lumberyard. By “alternate web service” we mean any non-AWS web service that is similar to or can act as a replacement for Amazon EC2, Amazon Lambda, Amazon DynamoDB, Amazon RDS, Amazon S3, Amazon EBS, Amazon EC2 Container Service, or Amazon GameLift. You can use hardware you own and operate for your game servers.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

The important question is, how friendly are the developer tools to newbies such as myself whose last coding experience was Turbo C?

Yeah I'm down for knowing which free* engine is the easiest to get to grasps with?

 

[element]

Yeah I'm down for knowing which free* engine is the easiest to get to grasps with?

The important question is, how friendly are the developer tools to newbies such as myself whose last coding experience was Turbo C?

Depends on what you are trying to make. Out of the box I'd personally say UE4 is the easiest, mostly because they have done a good job providing solid genre examples. The workflow is pretty straight forward and Kismet is simple for non-programmers to understand.

If you have any coding background then Unity would be the second choice. Some good tutorials out there.

 

[CollectedDust]

Crytek desperately needed the money if they have allowed someone to fork and make Cryengine open source.

Exactly what I was thinking; they must have been on the verge of closing to make a deal like that.

 

[element]

Exactly what I was thinking; they must have been on the verge of closing to make a deal like that.

Pretty clear that they were on the verge of insolvency/bankruptcy when this deal was signed in July 2014 based on this EuroGamer article.

 

[Harlequin]

Well, disappointed but not surprised, Amazon takes a lot from Open Source community but contributes with nothing.

Also the use of AWS is mandatory unless you host your own servers:

Even if you use your own servers, you still need to use Amazon's services on them. The only situation in which Amazon don't make any money at all is if you develop a single-player or local multiplayer game without online features which is still pretty cool IMO. Will be interesting to see how well they'll be able to penetrate the engine market.

 

[jmga]

Even if you use your own servers, you still need to use Amazon's services on them. The only situation in which Amazon don't make any money at all is if you develop a single-player game without online features which is still pretty cool IMO. Will be interesting to see how well they'll be able to penetrate the engine market.

No, you can host your own servers and don't use AWS.

Q. Do I have to run my game on AWS?

No. If you own and operate your own private servers, you do not need to use AWS. You also don’t need to use AWS if your game does not use any servers. For example, if you release a free-standing single‐player or local-only multiplayer game, you pay us nothing.

 

[Harlequin]

No, you can host your own servers and don't use AWS.

I read that but doesn't that contradict the part of the FAQ you previously quoted?

 

[jmga]

I read that but doesn't that contradict the part of the FAQ you previously quoted?

By “alternate web service” we mean any non-AWS web service that is similar to or can act as a replacement for Amazon EC2, Amazon Lambda, Amazon DynamoDB, Amazon RDS, Amazon S3, Amazon EBS, Amazon EC2 Container Service, or Amazon GameLift. You can use hardware you own and operate for your game servers.

They don't consider hosting your own servers to be a web service alternative to AWS.

 

[element]

Looking at the documentation, it is pretty clear that you can roll your own services BUT it must run on your own hardware. Can't used virtualized cloud services unless they are via AWS.

So no Azure, OVH, Codero, Digital Ocean, Rackspace, Linode and tons of others.

Would require you buying hardware and leasing space in a colo.

It turns into a tradeoff. This is amazing for studios who want to mitigate risk and with zero upfront cost, but in some situations your monthly bill to AWS could be HUGE, like six figure huge if your game blows up. GameLift their game service for AWS has a pretty good breakdown of pricing. http://aws.amazon.com/gamelift/pricing/

Take that math and put it against ARK or RUST numbers you are at $165k to $200k a month in just server costs.

 

[Harlequin]

They don't consider hosting your own servers to be a web service alternative to AWS.

And you won't need to install any other AWS-like services on your servers to get common online functionalities to work? Sorry if that's a dumb question but I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to this sort of stuff.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Interesting to see where this goes .

 

[spekkeh]

Why wouldn't you use AWS though? Aren't they generally considered one of the best in terms of scaling cloud services, and much cheaper than what a company would be able to make themselves?

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Cool, but why? I don't see how Amazon can profit from this, other than professional use of their cloud with it.

With Amazon it's not about immediate profits. It's about making sure that your product is the only one used to squeeze others out of the game.

Look what they did to the high street.

 

[element]

Why wouldn't you use AWS though? Aren't they generally considered one of the best in terms of scaling cloud services, and much cheaper than what a company would be able to make themselves?

as above post stated, it is about upfront cost. AWS is a good deal, but there is a tipping point where long term it would be cheaper to buy your own hardware.

This is really great for smaller studios that doesn't have the capital to invest in their own hardware, but it TOTALLY could bite you in the ass if not managed correctly.

 

[Melon Husk]

I would assume users hosting their own dedicated servers would be ok.

It's cheaper than UE4 in most use cases, but:

-UE4 is the best in documentation
-Unity has the best asset store
-No support for Blender, really?!

edit: also curious about Rift/Vive support...

"Amazon Lumberyard is a free AAA game engine"

what does this even mean?

free as in beer, also you can get a factory tour (source code)