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Amazon's LOTR Series Has a Title: The Rings of Power
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
haxan7
Banned
Woopah
Member
One of the main antagonists in the film is killed by a female character that shouts "I am no man". Éowyn's storyline is very much about identify and her being treated differently because she's a woman.
You'd definitely have people accusing Tolkein of being "woke" it he wrote that today.
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TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Nothing wrong with that. Compare this to having black hobbits or lesbian elves as main characters. Also, that main antagonist is killed by both Merry and Eowyn - Eowyn by herself couldn’t have killed him.
The_hunter
Member
Without Peter Jackson, it won't feel like Tolkien.
Look at the full footnote. It's more of a pun of "man" meaning human VS "man" meaning male.
For her shield-arm was broken by the mace of the Witch-king; but he was brought to nothing, and thus the words of Glorfindel long before to King Eärnur were fulfilled, that the Witch-king would not fall by the hand of man. For it is said in the songs of the Mark that in this deed Éowyn had the aid of Théoden’s esquire, and that he also was not a Man but a Halfling out of a far country, though Éomer gave him honour in the Mark and the name of Holdwine.[This Holdwine was none other than Meriadoc the Magnificent who was Master of Buckland.]
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
In addition to that, in the book Eowyn says something along the lines of “I am no living man” as opposed to “I am no man”. There is a difference.
Come On Tars
Member
its gonna feel like Shadow of War fanfic
Woopah
Member
I don't think there should be any sex scenes, but I don't see anything wrong in having a elf as a main character or elves having sexuality.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Who said that an elf cannot or should not be a main character? Also, in the movies Arwen had sexuality.
Woopah
Member
I thought you were saying there shouldn't be a lesbian elf as a main character. My apologies if I misunderstood.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
There shouldn’t be! I said an elf can be a main character but didn’t say anything about elves. As far as I know lgbt isn’t part of Tolkien’s world.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Disagree. Jackson's heart wasn't in the Hobbit Trilogy and that's obvious from the state of the films and the production diary videos. The Hobbit trilogy was absolutely awful compared to LOTR. Too much of the story was made up fan fiction (adapting the Hobbit into three films was clearly a terrible idea) and the special effects were in some cases worse than the LOTR trilogy
This is probably down to Jackson relying too much on Green Screen rather than miniatures or real world shooting locations. The over use of green screen actually made Sir Ian McKellen cry on set.
This is a bit misleading. He broke down during the dwarf party at Bilbos house because he was all alonr on a separate set and had no one to act off of, while all the dwarf actors were on a different set.
Don't think there was that much green screen in that scene since they built two full sets. Tons of sets on the Hobbit overall, but an over reliance on cgi. The goblins were originally done with masks and puppets but gor replaced with cgi for example.
Tams
Member
I never saw past the first The Hobbit film, the first one was so underwhelming.
Memories of a lovely illustrated gold book of it are good enough for me.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
His own words. Not mine. Also, not just Bilbo's house scene either.
Ian McKellen 'broke down on Hobbit set'
Veteran actor was frustrated by acting against green screen.
www.digitalspy.com
He said: "In order to shoot the dwarves and a large Gandalf, we couldn't be in the same set. All I had for company was 13 photographs of the dwarves on top of stands with little lights - whoever's talking flashes up.
"Pretending you're with 13 other people when you're on your own, it stretches your technical ability to the absolute limits.
"I cried, actually. I cried. Then I said out loud, 'This is not why I became an actor'. Unfortunately the microphone was on and the whole studio heard."
There were tons of green screen in the Hobbit, especially when compared to the LOTR trilogy. I do agree with your point about the goblins and the orcs. They looked so much better in the LOTR, where in the Hobbit they looked fake and comical.
Yeah this is how I remember it, and it was all shown in the extra features. But he was sitting on an actual set, all alone. There might have bern greeb screens around thr roomset hr was in to extend of course, but thete wasn't a lack of sets. A bigget problem was hoe a ton of practical stuff just got replaced with cg.His own words. Not mine. Also, not just Bilbo's house scene either.
Ian McKellen 'broke down on Hobbit set'
Veteran actor was frustrated by acting against green screen.
He said: "In order to shoot the dwarves and a large Gandalf, we couldn't be in the same set. All I had for company was 13 photographs of the dwarves on top of stands with little lights - whoever's talking flashes up.
"Pretending you're with 13 other people when you're on your own, it stretches your technical ability to the absolute limits.
"I cried, actually. I cried. Then I said out loud, 'This is not why I became an actor'. Unfortunately the microphone was on and the whole studio heard."
There were tons of green screen in the Hobbit, especially when compared to the LOTR trilogy. I do agree with your point about the goblins and the orcs. They looked so much better in the LOTR, where in the Hobbit they looked fake and comical.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Yep. Not sure if this was due to lack of time or if they actually thought CG was better.
My main gripe with the Hobbit trilogy is that it is insulting to Tolkien's novel. The original idea was for it to be two movies, with the first film ending with the barrell escape. Then, the second film would deal with Smaug and the battle of the five armies. That would have been a lot better and have been a more coherent story.
However, somebody had the fucking dumb idea to balloon this into three films and add a lot of new characters and scenes that aren't included in any of Tolkien's work. For example, the Legolas (what the fuck is Legolas even doing in these films?!), Tauriel (who?) and Kíli love triangle was unnecessary and poorly written. It just added an unneeded plot thread that they needed to justify making three films.
Love the LOTR trilogy, even though it's not a perfect adaptation of Tolkien's work. But the Hobbit trilogy. That can burn in enteral hell fire.
Oh god that whole thing makes me barf in my mouth just thinking about it.
But it's pretty clear nobody wanted this. Watching the extra features it's very clear how drained and exhausted they are and peter is just doing whatever he can to steer this trainwreck down a path that'll at the very least salvage something.
It's sad thing, considering how monumental the lotr trilogy was.
Braindead studio execs is where I put the blame.
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The_hunter
Member
I forgot the hobbit trilogy existed
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
I wish it never existed
NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
There is a three hour edit that removes a lot of the crop. It's actually not bad.
Marvel14
Banned
We need LOTR the Extended series. TV shows are awesome now. What are you on about? His Dark Materials, Watchmen, Homeland, The Leftovers, Breaking Bad, Wandavision not just GOT - damned excellent entertainment.
Only an extended treatment can capture the hobbits' journey properly (barrow-wights, Tom Bombadil anyone?) As well as treat the Ents with the respect they are due and capture Saruman's cult of personality skills properly.
Hell you could have one mini series for a fast paced Hobbit with all the Peter Jackson overstuffing taken out, say 6 or so 1 hour episodes max (keep the Dol guldur Gandalf stuff that is barely mentioned in the book) and then treat each of the 6 books of LOTR as a 6-8 episode series each.
Would be the definitive version.
His Dark Materials has shown the way...
I am not knocking cinema though. Dune is absolutely stunning.
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TaylorSwiftFan
Member
His Dark Materials has not received amazing reviews though. You also listed a bunch of TV series which are merely ok (apart from Breaking Bad).
Marvel14
Banned
Sacrilege .
His Dark Materials | Rotten Tomatoes
During her search for a kidnapped friend, a seemingly ordinary but brave young woman from another world uncovers a sinister plot involving stolen children and a mysterious phenomenon called Dust.
www.rottentomatoes.com
The Leftovers | Rotten Tomatoes
In a global cataclysm, "The Sudden Departure," 140 million people disappeared without a trace. Three years later, residents of Mapleton, N.Y., try to maintain equilibrium when the notion of "normal" no longer applies. Intense grief has divided families and turned faith to cynicism, paranoia and...
www.rottentomatoes.com
Watchmen | Rotten Tomatoes
Based on the celebrated graphic novel by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, the exciting and dark "Watchmen" takes place in Tulsa, Okla., 34 years after the original story. After a white supremacist attack on the local police department, which leaves only two surviving cops on the beat, laws are...
www.rottentomatoes.com
WandaVision | Rotten Tomatoes
Living idealized suburban lives, super-powered beings Wanda and Vision begin to suspect that everything is not as it seems.
www.rottentomatoes.com
Homeland | Rotten Tomatoes
When Marine Sgt. Nicholas Brody returns home following eight years in captivity, CIA agent Carrie Mathison thinks he has turned and is connected to a terror plot to be carried out on American soil, so she engages him in a dangerous game of cat and mouse that puts America's national security at...
www.rottentomatoes.com
All have user and critical scores above 80%. They are at least good not just ok. The only outlier is Watchmen 90%+ critics and 50% audience but that's because it deals with institutionalised racism and America's racial history which a large chunk of America doesn't believe remains relevant.
GymWolf
Member
Shadow of war walkthrough.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
I use a combination of RT user score and IMDB. His Dark Materials has less than 8. That immediately rules out Watchmen and His Dark Materials. And let’s be honest, most TV series below an 8.5 is bad.Sacrilege .
His Dark Materials | Rotten Tomatoes
During her search for a kidnapped friend, a seemingly ordinary but brave young woman from another world uncovers a sinister plot involving stolen children and a mysterious phenomenon called Dust.
The Leftovers | Rotten Tomatoes
In a global cataclysm, "The Sudden Departure," 140 million people disappeared without a trace. Three years later, residents of Mapleton, N.Y., try to maintain equilibrium when the notion of "normal" no longer applies. Intense grief has divided families and turned faith to cynicism, paranoia and...
Watchmen | Rotten Tomatoes
Based on the celebrated graphic novel by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, the exciting and dark "Watchmen" takes place in Tulsa, Okla., 34 years after the original story. After a white supremacist attack on the local police department, which leaves only two surviving cops on the beat, laws are...
WandaVision | Rotten Tomatoes
Living idealized suburban lives, super-powered beings Wanda and Vision begin to suspect that everything is not as it seems.
Homeland | Rotten Tomatoes
When Marine Sgt. Nicholas Brody returns home following eight years in captivity, CIA agent Carrie Mathison thinks he has turned and is connected to a terror plot to be carried out on American soil, so she engages him in a dangerous game of cat and mouse that puts America's national security at...
All have user and critical scores above 80%. They are at least good not just ok. The only outlier is Watchmen 90%+ critics and 50% audience but that's because it deals with institutionalised racism and America's racial history which a large chunk of America doesn't believe remains relevant.
Marvel14
Banned
Agree to disagree...have you watched them all or are you one of those folk who only watches what the review consensus dictates? I have watched them all and recommend them all wholeheartedly. HIS Dark Materials is even better on a second viewing.
I do agree though that Disney + quality is patchy. Loki is so so, Mandalorian meanders from good to meh and Falcon and Winter Soldier I found unwatchable.
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TaylorSwiftFan
Member
I have not watched them. The premises aren’t that interesting to me. With so many shows out there I had to find a way to determine what to watch. I am watching the Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes series at the moment - love it. Before that it was The Detectorists. Just a class above in terms of quality I think.
Marvel14
Banned
Try the BBC's Sherlock and Dracula. Both sublime.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
I watched Sherlock but it lost me because it’s not believable and it’s not Sherlock Holmes. Dracula was alright but that ending was a bit out there.
Marvel14
Banned
Yep both are reimaginings....but I see that you're a stickler for accuracy
You missed my point a bit. I love great TV shows like the next person. I was complaining about formerly big budget movie series (Star Wars, Lord of the Rings) transitioning to TV, and losing some of that big budget special effects magic.
Lord of the Rings is one of my favorite novel series of all time. And I read the books before I saw the movies. But you give some examples like Ents. Im not sure I want to see Ents in a TV show because I cant imagine that they will have the budget to do them properly.
My main concern is when deciding to "make more of something" its now so easy to say, "hm a big budget movie could be incredible, but it will also be expensive and it may flop, so instead of 1-3 amazing films lets make 2 seasons of a TV show which gives us more streaming content and helps sell our monthly fee rather than 1 or two movie tickets".
Naturally the budgets of these TV shows are lower than the films, just look at the Gammorian Guards in Boba Fett (shudder).
Come on, ep3 of Dracula was absolute trash and Sherlock got too far up its own ass in later seasons as well, not liking them is hardly a rare opinion.Yep both are reimaginings....but I see that you're a stickler for accuracy
Marvel14
Banned
Keep your knickers on...I never said that not liking them is a rare opinion.
I disagree: both series are excellent and imaginative. Just as there are plenty of people who didn't like them, there are plenty of people who do.
It's called having different tastes, and it's all good.
BaneIsPain
Member
TIL there is a new character as Isildur’s sister. The disappointing part is the name seems is out of place imo. ooh, there will be a lot of dissection good or bad .
Marvel14
Banned
I can't bring myself to watch Boba Fett...market saturation reached.
But as a LOTR fan surely you agree with me that a big budget series adaptation could do full justice to the breadth and depth of Tolkien's vision instead of Peter Jackson's action flick truncated version- any film will necessary take liberties with the source material.
Its not guaranteed I admit but His Dark Materials shows it can be done.
I agree 100%. A TV show with a proper budget to do the source material justice including not skimping on costumes and special effects with incredible writers would be and could b amazing.
That goes back to my original point, there has been exactly 1 TV show that actually did that so far, GOT, in terms of the budget, special effects, not skimping on the source material etc.
It's not just budget though, it's TIME. Time for the extensive pre-production for sets, costumes, and locations. Time for rehearsals, choreography, and getting that script TIGHT. Time for reshoots, retakes, coverage, all the stuff that makes the editor shine. Time to polish the final cut to a razor edge of perfection.
TV impacts all of these things in a negative way, it's way so very few shows can match even a mediocre film for visuals and impact.
TV impacts all of these things in a negative way, it's way so very few shows can match even a mediocre film for visuals and impact.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
I'm going to have to disagree that a TV show would be able be a faithful adaptation of Tolkien's work, while also needing to appeal to a mass general audience.
This was the problem with Jackson's adaptation of LOTR. Although I really enjoyed the trilogy for what it was, it wasn't a faithful adaptation and reduced the books and the world that Tolkien created to run of the mill sword and sorcery. However, I understand that this is because it had to appeal to a mass audience and frankly, if it was a faithful adaptation it probably wouldn't have been as successful.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
The Lord of the Rings trilogy was faithful to Tolkiens work. They seemed to appeal to a mass general audience if box office receipts are anything to go by.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
It really wasn't. It was a film adaptation of Tolkien's work, but couldn't be faithful because it had to appeal to the masses.
Christopher Tolkien thought it was practically insulting, and almost all Tolkien scholars thought the films didn't capture the essence of Tolkien's work.
Personally, I thought they were an enjoyable, yet dumbed down adaptation. We won't talk about the Hobbit trilogy.
Marvel14
Banned
Watch His Dark Materials if you haven't. It is a fully faithful adaptation. My only criticism is they skimped a bit on the deamons.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I could be wrong. I just don't see many LotR fans who don't have a reverence for the films. Non scientific sample size and all.
The Hobbit Trilogy on the other hand...
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TaylorSwiftFan
Member
I love the movies but come on. It’s not very faithful.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
I normally skip adaptations because they're normally not faithful to the source material, and also it's never as good as I imagined it in my head. However, if this is truly a faithful adaptation then I might give it a shot. Thanks.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
The movies were masterpieces and close enough. But there was a lot of deviations.