Hari Seldon
Member
Season Ending spoiler:
There was a dude in a high castle at the end of the last episode who seemed to know a lot about these films
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Amazon's 'The Man in the High Castle' |OT| Man, that is a high castle...
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
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Season Ending spoiler:
Late chiming in to this, but really, it kind of makes sense since in the Greater German Reich, black people had been exterminated. And black culture birthed blues and jazz, which led to rock and roll. But I didn't even pick up on that at the time, good call.
I thought this was a great first season and am very much looking forward to the second. The final scene though, still not sure what to think of that.
Might have been answered already, but
was Obergruppenfuhrer an American before the war? So essentially he would have betrayed his country and gone on to hunt down his fellow countrymen? Seemed implied to me.
If you mean
**********Hitler****************
it's not him.
http://zap2it.com/2015/11/season-1-hints-man-in-the-high-castles-identity/
See, I don't understand how it's not him though.
The "High Castle" was shown again and again, they made a big deal of it.
And he has a big collection of these films.
Also, the whole "We give him films, he gives us intel" makes perfect sense that way.
Rabbit Lord
Member
Just misdirection.
jimbobsmells
Member
Not sure I'm a fan of this 'resistance' angle at all. But I get it. Being faithful to the book would be a mess of a show. Still would rather it skipped the resistance stuff altogether and filmed it as people accepting their new reality under the Japanese / Germans.
Hmmm, maybe.
It's more blatant lying, rather than subtle misdirection though
Rabbit Lord
Member
Don't think they meant to be subtle, believe they want viewers to
think Hitler is the man in the high castle or at least closely connected.
Mike Works
Member
Why do I, the viewer care about these films? Why does Juliana, one of our two protagonists, care about these films? It's absolutely key to this series and it's a ball that's utterly dropped.
(full season spoilers in rant ahead)
Do these films grant some kind of magical power that allows (or denies) jumping between dimensions? Do these films risk inciting the defeated allies to return to war? Do they do something else? We don't know and we don't find out in the first season. Alright, fine. There are a lot of shows that introduce a mystery in the pilot episode and don't reveal their answers by the end of the first season (smoke monster in Lost, etc).
But we need a reason to care. Our two protagonists are Joe and Juliana. Joe doesn't care about the tapes at all. All Joe cares about is his mission in terms of being a Nazi. Joe discovers a tape under his truck on his way to Carson City. Does he do anything with it? No. Well, he watches it. And then... gives it to the resistance to potentially save his life. And that's the end of that. There's a brief conversation with Juliana about the tapes, but Joe doesn't seem to care that much. When he gets back to Nazi high command, does he really pry into the tapes? Not really. If he does, they tell him to not ask questions. So he doesn't, like a good Nazi. Are we having fun as a viewer through Joe? No. Joe's shit is stupid.
Then there's Juliana. Juliana's motivations as a character are seemingly driven by validating her sister's sacrifice. Is Juliana a member of the resistance? No. Doesn't look like she cares about it much at all in the pilot. She's practicing Japanese self-defense. She's taking time off work. Then her sister dies and Juliana gets the tape and she has to fulfill her sister's goal. For the resistance? No. For her sister. That's appropriate character motivation. So Juliana goes to Carson City and eventually watches her film. And she cries because it looks great. Then she very poorly throws a guy over the dam. Doesn't have anything to do with the film, but I thought I'd mention it because it looked ridiculous. Anyway, Juliana ends up in the same boat as Joe and gives her tape away. When she asks about its importance, she gets no answers. Juliana stops caring much about the films. She starts caring about being in the resistance though. Why?
Well that's a good God damn question when you ask yourself this: What did the resistance DO in the first season? What did they accomplish? What have they done? Here are some events that pertain to the post-war victors being attacked:
- The Japanese Prince is shot and almost killed in public.
- A German provides secret tech to the Japanese. He is later captured, interrogated, then persuaded to assassinate Hitler.
- A Nazi agent (Joe) kills a bunch of Yakuza as an escape.
- A bunch of dudes with guns shoot up Obengrupenfuhrer (bet I spelled that wrong) and his Nazi friend's car.
There's some stupid randomness that happens in Carson City that doesn't have much to do with either side of the war victors (like the book owner getting hung), but by and large that's it. And here's the thing: of those 4 events listed, the resistance only influenced the very last one... and they were given that intelligence by the Nazis!!
So if Joe doesn't really care about the films themselves, and Juliana doesn't really care about the films themselves, and the resistance DOES care about the films, but only because these films free ten of their people, who in turn... do fucking NOTHING throughout the season, then I must must must return to my original question:
WHY THE FUCK SHOULD WE CARE (about these films)
But we need a reason to care. Our two protagonists are Joe and Juliana. Joe doesn't care about the tapes at all. All Joe cares about is his mission in terms of being a Nazi. Joe discovers a tape under his truck on his way to Carson City. Does he do anything with it? No. Well, he watches it. And then... gives it to the resistance to potentially save his life. And that's the end of that. There's a brief conversation with Juliana about the tapes, but Joe doesn't seem to care that much. When he gets back to Nazi high command, does he really pry into the tapes? Not really. If he does, they tell him to not ask questions. So he doesn't, like a good Nazi. Are we having fun as a viewer through Joe? No. Joe's shit is stupid.
Then there's Juliana. Juliana's motivations as a character are seemingly driven by validating her sister's sacrifice. Is Juliana a member of the resistance? No. Doesn't look like she cares about it much at all in the pilot. She's practicing Japanese self-defense. She's taking time off work. Then her sister dies and Juliana gets the tape and she has to fulfill her sister's goal. For the resistance? No. For her sister. That's appropriate character motivation. So Juliana goes to Carson City and eventually watches her film. And she cries because it looks great. Then she very poorly throws a guy over the dam. Doesn't have anything to do with the film, but I thought I'd mention it because it looked ridiculous. Anyway, Juliana ends up in the same boat as Joe and gives her tape away. When she asks about its importance, she gets no answers. Juliana stops caring much about the films. She starts caring about being in the resistance though. Why?
Well that's a good God damn question when you ask yourself this: What did the resistance DO in the first season? What did they accomplish? What have they done? Here are some events that pertain to the post-war victors being attacked:
- The Japanese Prince is shot and almost killed in public.
- A German provides secret tech to the Japanese. He is later captured, interrogated, then persuaded to assassinate Hitler.
- A Nazi agent (Joe) kills a bunch of Yakuza as an escape.
- A bunch of dudes with guns shoot up Obengrupenfuhrer (bet I spelled that wrong) and his Nazi friend's car.
There's some stupid randomness that happens in Carson City that doesn't have much to do with either side of the war victors (like the book owner getting hung), but by and large that's it. And here's the thing: of those 4 events listed, the resistance only influenced the very last one... and they were given that intelligence by the Nazis!!
So if Joe doesn't really care about the films themselves, and Juliana doesn't really care about the films themselves, and the resistance DOES care about the films, but only because these films free ten of their people, who in turn... do fucking NOTHING throughout the season, then I must must must return to my original question:
WHY THE FUCK SHOULD WE CARE (about these films)
Just finished the season, and while I sort of like the show enough if only because of it's style, you friggen nail the criticisms.
Not just that stuff, but the whole time I'm wondering why Juliana is even with (her boyfriend? Im too lazy to look up the names and this is the kind of show whwere I forget the names like two seconds after I look them up) And why is he still with her? There's never really so much as a scene to make you care about either of them as characters nor as a couple who like actually like each other before they jump into the story, where they continually do things (mostly on juliana's end) that fuck the other person over and don't think twice about it. There's so mch that goes on without any indication for what the motivation in. Sometimes its very thinly implied, like with [fake resistance nazi guy], you think he could possibly be good, but like you don't really know much about him. Even when he goes back home for one episode, you don't really learn much about him that adds to his character in any meaningful way.
Ugh. Without the minfuck ending idk if i'd even be in for the next season.
Ugh. Without the minfuck ending idk if i'd even be in for the next season.
Is... it...??? I can think of a dozen shows that are shot better, that don't look like they were shot on a mediocrely-dressed backlot or with lighting that makes everything look like it's covered in vaseline.
There's stuff I like about this show. Art direction and cinematography are not any of those things.
Cornballer
Member
Expected but great to hear nonetheless. Can't wait.
Hero Prinny
Member
I hope they renew red oaks too. I really enjoyed season 1
Awesome to hear. I binged all of season 1 yesterday so this is good timing on the renewal.
Just finished this episode tonight. I feel a bit lost on something-my fault as we've had to watch the episodes 30 minutes at a time as free time has been sparse lately. When Juliana returns to the Embassy
and is looking for the "Rose" room-please remind me why she is looking for that room specifically and what its significance means. It looked like a bunch of white people in the embassy listening on phone conversations for Intel. Specially Grasshopper mentions and the Prince. So is this basically the Japanese spying on civilians or the Nazis?
The Lamonster
Member
Ninja Scooter
Member
Binged through this in about a week. Really good stuff. If we are comparing these streaming service exclusives, it's better than anything Netflix has put out in a while and hopefully gets them to raise their game. Rufus Sewell kills it.
You're not kidding. He's phenomenal.
Eh-I night see how someone else would think that, but for me that's one of the Strongest draws of the show. I'm really interested in how that plays out.
Norgaards German was great until
he was with his wife and children in Berlin.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I think it shows some great attention to detail for a tv show. You can definitely tell there were some budgetary constraints - I specifically remember the scene when Juliana is trying to get back into San Fransisco and they drag everyone off the bus, cut to slightly strange looking street shot, cut to interior of apartment - but the little details like the clothing are top notch.
Something about the filming, and it may be the vaseline effect or backlot feel you are talking about, evokes the (alternative) time period for me at least.
The Horror the horror
Banned
Started off strong; ended flat.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Just watched the rest of the episodes on my Amazon Prime Trial.
A lot of uneven episodes, but ultimately a great sci-fi mystery.
A lot of uneven episodes, but ultimately a great sci-fi mystery.
Just finished the series and I have mixed feelings. The show started really strong and the whole "who is this man in the high castle and what do these films represent?" was super intriguing, but the middle of the show really slowed down in terms of pacing and the ending, while decent, seemed more important than it actually is. A red herring if you will. As for the visual style of the series, it was really great. The premise was enough to pique my interest but the style really feels and looks like the early 60s but not quite as advanced and colorful as it should be because of the restriction of fascism.
I don't think
. The
I hope that season 2 explores
I know exploring this kind of stuff can potentially ruin a story, but I honestly don't see how the story can keep me engaged if it decides to play it safe and have the main characters face another government related threat without at least achieving some answers. The show is built on this specific mystery, and to keep it as a macguffin for its entirety would be a cheap way for us to forcefully engage ourselves with it. Lost sort of did both, but that show starting going off the rails before questions were even beginning to be answered, so it was doomed either way.
I felt like this first season gave us some really cool things to think about and it built the world really well through the alternate 1960s politics and geography and now season 2 should take it a step further and explore something even more ambitious, as these films and the "man in the high castle" mystery suggest. It's one of those few pieces of entertainment that I tend to enjoy almost purely for the plot and premise since I feel the characters are mostly weak.
I just didn't really come around to liking many of the characters. Joe and Julianna felt very plain from the beginning to me and Frank never seemed as important to the story in relation to how much screen time he received. Honestly, the character with the biggest arc and my favorite by far was Oppengruppenfuhrer John. He's the only character that I'm actually extremely curious to see throughout season 2 because I disliked him at first but grew to really love his performance and story arc.
I don't think
Hitler is the "main in the high castle" and I think the alternate 60s SF in the last scene won't be returned to at all
scene with Hitler was pretty cool, but didn't really reveal that much.
the weird, multiple realities possibility and the reason why these films are so important (I mean we know what they represent, which is important on its own merit, but where the hell did they come from and how were they created/transported to this alternate reality? Who obtained/transported them? There's so many interesting questions to explore!).
I felt like this first season gave us some really cool things to think about and it built the world really well through the alternate 1960s politics and geography and now season 2 should take it a step further and explore something even more ambitious, as these films and the "man in the high castle" mystery suggest. It's one of those few pieces of entertainment that I tend to enjoy almost purely for the plot and premise since I feel the characters are mostly weak.
I just didn't really come around to liking many of the characters. Joe and Julianna felt very plain from the beginning to me and Frank never seemed as important to the story in relation to how much screen time he received. Honestly, the character with the biggest arc and my favorite by far was Oppengruppenfuhrer John. He's the only character that I'm actually extremely curious to see throughout season 2 because I disliked him at first but grew to really love his performance and story arc.
It'll be heartbreaking to see his son's physical decline and the effect it'll have on John in S2 if they decide to show that, which I'm sure they will if they keep the character around.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Up to episode 7.
I like the show, but I can't help but think that I'd like it much more if Joe was killed off off screen and never came back for S2. There's nothing wrong with the actor per se, but his character's motivations are so random they make no. sense. at. all. Then again, that seems to fit the tone of the book, which has some fairly absurd character development.
I also find funny that the axis has the best characters of the show. Not only that, but the Trade Minister, whom used to be my least liked character at first, has become a bit of a personal favourite.
That doesn't mean it's flawless, though. I have two main gripes about the way it's been shot:
1) While generally very pretty, there's nothing particularly interesting about its cinematography. It kind of falls short of being genuinely great.
2) Sets and locations are gorgeous and fastidiously detailed, but they feel TINY. You rarely get a good sense of scale, so the entire production feels artificially contained at times, particularly due to the recurrence of warehouses, shops and alleyways. You may get a good view at the alternative architecture of the Reich or the East Coast in each chapter, but those are generally very short, one time shots that then are abruptly cut to a number of closely shot scenes. It's as if nothing was ever filmed from more than 10 metres. Oddly enough, this is something shared with Netflix's Daredevil and Jessica Jones. Go figure.
I still have a few episodes to watch, but I think I'm on board for S2. I just hope they address some of my complains, because I get the impression this could be a much better show with just a tiny bit of effort.
Edit: And I'm done. The last three episodes of the show were definitely the best by a wide margin. I loved what was shown of the European Reich and the way they dealt with the Japanese side of the plot, but Joe definitely needs to DIAF.
I like the show, but I can't help but think that I'd like it much more if Joe was killed off off screen and never came back for S2. There's nothing wrong with the actor per se, but his character's motivations are so random they make no. sense. at. all. Then again, that seems to fit the tone of the book, which has some fairly absurd character development.
I also find funny that the axis has the best characters of the show. Not only that, but the Trade Minister, whom used to be my least liked character at first, has become a bit of a personal favourite.
I disagree. There are times where it's beautiful to look at. More often than not, it's a very aesthetically pleasing show.
That doesn't mean it's flawless, though. I have two main gripes about the way it's been shot:
1) While generally very pretty, there's nothing particularly interesting about its cinematography. It kind of falls short of being genuinely great.
2) Sets and locations are gorgeous and fastidiously detailed, but they feel TINY. You rarely get a good sense of scale, so the entire production feels artificially contained at times, particularly due to the recurrence of warehouses, shops and alleyways. You may get a good view at the alternative architecture of the Reich or the East Coast in each chapter, but those are generally very short, one time shots that then are abruptly cut to a number of closely shot scenes. It's as if nothing was ever filmed from more than 10 metres. Oddly enough, this is something shared with Netflix's Daredevil and Jessica Jones. Go figure.
I still have a few episodes to watch, but I think I'm on board for S2. I just hope they address some of my complains, because I get the impression this could be a much better show with just a tiny bit of effort.
Edit: And I'm done. The last three episodes of the show were definitely the best by a wide margin. I loved what was shown of the European Reich and the way they dealt with the Japanese side of the plot, but Joe definitely needs to DIAF.
Host Samurai
Member
Binged watched this over the blizzard and loved it. I called it from the beginning that
Loved making some observations about the alternate 60's like the music, cars and lack of real pop culture.
some sort of alternate reality would take place with the films and that there would be some sort of sci fi element to it. The man in the high castle must be some kind of reality jumper. Loved the scene at the end with Tagoma in our history timeline
Loved making some observations about the alternate 60's like the music, cars and lack of real pop culture.
Calcium
Banned
I just binged through this and I really enjoyed it. It's odd though, I don't think I've ever watched a show where the main characters are the least interesting aspect and still managed to enjoy it. Juliana and Joe are fine and I didn't particularly dislike their actors, but every other character in the show is just so much better. Tagomi and John Smith were my favorite characters, just really well acted by Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa and Rufus Sewell.
For me the setting of the show was what kept me hooked. The cold war between Japan and Germany was really interesting as well as seeing how the Americans were adapting to the occupation.The second the tapes were introduced I got serious
vibes and pretty much knew how the season was going to end. I'm curious to see where the show goes from here, I'm onboard for a second season.
For me the setting of the show was what kept me hooked. The cold war between Japan and Germany was really interesting as well as seeing how the Americans were adapting to the occupation.The second the tapes were introduced I got serious
Fringe
I came in here to rant but you did it for me. Thanks!
But I still enjoyed ths show and will be back for Season 2
Juliana is maybe the most annoying, stupid and selfish characters I've ever seen.
On episode 9 right now.
This show is fucking dumb.
[edit]
[edit]
Episode 10.
I fapped to this post, I couldn't agree more with you.
On episode 9 right now.
Her boyfriend, she someone claims to love, sacrificed his sister and his nephew and niece to protect her after she left without explaining why. Now that she's back he gets some money because his life is in danger and instead of leaving, she stays behind, gets captured and now ruins one of their last chances of getting away.
If that's now bad enough, now she's asking her boyfriend to give up the rest of his money so she can rescue some guy she barely knows. Then she agrees to let him go and deliver the money himself to the Yakuza, it's like she's trying to kill Frank so she can fuck Joe. If not by the Yakuza then by fucking him over until the police get him.
If that's now bad enough, now she's asking her boyfriend to give up the rest of his money so she can rescue some guy she barely knows. Then she agrees to let him go and deliver the money himself to the Yakuza, it's like she's trying to kill Frank so she can fuck Joe. If not by the Yakuza then by fucking him over until the police get him.
This show is fucking dumb.
[edit]
Now Frank is poor, has no more bullets and the Yakuza is going to want to kill him. Good job, Juliana.
[edit]
Episode 10.
She watches a video where Joe kills Frank and then he shows up, beats up Frank, doesn't help Frank out and all she can muster is a monotone 'stop'. She then asks Joe to tell her that it isn't true he's a Nazi, he takes the film away from her and walks away. She just stands there and does nothing. Add useless to the list of shit that's wrong with this character.
[edit]
FInished episode 10.
She just let Joe Nazi run away, someone explain how this makes any goddamn sense. Why would anyone in her position do this? HE'S A GODDAMN NAZI AND YOU JUST LET HIM LEAVE FOR NO REASON
This show is even fucking dumber than it was 2 episodes ago. It's like they tried to make the most frustrating character ever and they succeeded. Everything decision she makes just fucks everyone over and helps a person she knows lied about being a Nazi. Why does she do this? I don't think anyone really knows.
[edit]
FInished episode 10.
She just let Joe Nazi run away, someone explain how this makes any goddamn sense. Why would anyone in her position do this? HE'S A GODDAMN NAZI AND YOU JUST LET HIM LEAVE FOR NO REASON
This show is even fucking dumber than it was 2 episodes ago. It's like they tried to make the most frustrating character ever and they succeeded. Everything decision she makes just fucks everyone over and helps a person she knows lied about being a Nazi. Why does she do this? I don't think anyone really knows.
I fapped to this post, I couldn't agree more with you.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
More Joe drama, precisely what the plot needed.
No.
No.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I pretty much gave up on this show after episode 8. I have no attachment to the characters, and the sci-fi element is the big draw. Reading the impressions here indicate that this isn't addressed at all, and I'm not down for another Lost "the journey is more important than the destination" wankfest.
I genuinely lol'd
Does Amazon no longer stream this show in 4K UHD? I originally watched it this way a while back, but I had a buddy over this weekend to test out 4K content, and Amazon doesn't list this show as UHD anymore... Transparent is still UHD though, so I don't think Amazon is not offering it to me due to a slow connection or something... I can't find anything on a Google search either.
Solideliquid
Member
I thought this was going to be about S2 release date.
Waste of an amazing actor, IMO. First season was just soooo boring.
dead souls
Member
Yeah, this was a one season and done for me. So dull.
Papa Mikaelson deserves better.
KonradLaw
Member
Yeah. Best new show last year for me. Can't wait for all the delicious despair S2 will bring me
Hope they make it this year.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
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