AMD: PlayStation 4 supports hUMA, Xbox One does not
- Thread starter ElTorro
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Dictator93
Member
Nothing to have a meltdownabout as I am not getting any consoles!
I just find it absurd that someone describes an article as a "Denial Report." I am not sure why PC Perspective (a PC website) would be looking to be on the defense force for xboxone (aka what sniperhunter was implying). It was just an article... and one that probably wasn't well written regarding the statement. The whole "Denial report" stuff sounds a little, ehem, you know. Plus, I happen to notice posting patterns attached with users... just like you can notice my own.
Boss Man
Member
More accurate:
I read a couple of possibilities:
I have a hard time believing that an AMD spokesman would say something that bold and not know what he's talking about.
- AMD guy said a thing about the gap between PS4 and Xbox One being larger than expected.
- GAF thread
- AMD releases a statement saying that the AMD guy did in fact say this thing (i.e.: he made some inaccurate statements about some details), and it is not their policy to speak on these things.
- Everyone on GAF believes what makes them feel best
I read a couple of possibilities:
- The AMD spokesman was completely wrong, and AMD got mad that he talked.
- The AMD spokesman was not completely wrong, and AMD got mad that he talked.
I have a hard time believing that an AMD spokesman would say something that bold and not know what he's talking about.
There is no real doubt that PS4 has "hUMA", since they have been talking about it themselves all the time as being an essential extension. They just haven't used that name. Also, the fact that it is a PS4-specific extension just shows that the analogy with Kabini is not valid.
The XB1 has, as already said in the OP, a more custom system, and we don't know anything about apart from what we got in the leaked documents. So that is the actual controversial part of the story. I myself would attribute any huge performance benefits more to the spokesperson's intention to promote hUMA, as the OP already summarized.
I added AMD's statement to the OP.
Vestal
Junior Member
but according to the AMD press release heise is basing the article on inaccurate information.
You are incorrect. That PS4 is hUMA is based on Cerny's technical reports discussed here on this forum in April.
That Xbox One was hUMA was just an implicit assumption by everyone, because it seemed reasonable that they would also have that.
Hence why this news was news in the first place. It changed nothing about the PS4, but changed what people assumed about the Xbox One.
I said this earlier:
If PS4/Xbox One are Kabini based...well, neither is vanilla Kabini. PS4 may not tick every box AMD defines for hUMA compliance, but it does tick two of the major ones going by comments to date...(even if in one case it does not come as automatically as AMD may design in future chips).
Still would like to see a more direct quote from that AMD rep in the second article though
If PS4/Xbox One are Kabini based...well, neither is vanilla Kabini. PS4 may not tick every box AMD defines for hUMA compliance, but it does tick two of the major ones going by comments to date...(even if in one case it does not come as automatically as AMD may design in future chips).
Still would like to see a more direct quote from that AMD rep in the second article though
Monumental
Banned
I'd go through this thread to highlight some of the best nuggets but then I'd be highlighting 29 pages. How fucking embarrassing...
Vestal
Junior Member
did you even read the link???
Holy fuck seriously game journos need a fucking journalism class. Jumping to conclusions from the same press release we have discussed in the last 2 pages
NullPointer
Member
My bathtub is confused.
Then read this very page first and discuss with us before you do. ;-P
So, you aren't getting any consoles and you just enter this thread to "notice posting patterns attached with users" and attempt to correct/mock them?
He has the rights to be excited about PS4 (or XBO), hUMA or not. And why is that coming in this discussion? (don't want to be rude, i don't know you or him and what's the story about that)
The article is very incorrect because authors make assumption that Kabini is in PS4 and therefore PS4 isn't hUMA... whereas Kabini isn't in PS4 (even if the custom APU has some Kabini roots). Garlic and Onion (good-smelling sauce of omg, but what about the taste?) are what makes the system hUMA apparently. So yes, the article sounds a bit like "fast denial", "response", "reaction to", "damage control" or whatever... without taking a good focus at what it quotes, therefore it sounds a bit biased (it probably isn't, i dunno).
It's a given AMD has not the rights to talk about customers' products, what do you think of it? Have you something to say about it?
Dictator93
Member
"made inaccurate statements regarding the details of our semi-custom APU architectures"
Not a retraction in the fullest sense, but rather saying the satment was inaccurate: and then a retraction.
So, you aren't getting any consoles and you just enter this thread to "notice posting patterns attached with users" and attempt to correct/mock them?
He has the rights to be excited about PS4 (or XBO), hUMA or not. And why is that coming in this discussion?
The article is very incorrect because authors make assumption that Kabini is in PS4 and therefore PS4 isn't hUMA... whereas Kabini isn't in PS4 (even if the custom APU has some Kabini roots). Garlic and Onion (good-smelling sauce of omg, but what about the taste?) are what makes the system hUMA apparently.
It's a given AMD has not the rights to talk about customers' products, what do you think of it? Have you something to say about it?
No I would never just want to come in and mock someone. Sorry if it looked like that. I just saw some slight fanboyish like posting and I had a flash of red glare in my eyes: fanboyish posting bothers me. I do notice posting patterns, hard not to... but they do affect my views of posters and the quality of their posts. FOr better and worse.
Of course everyone has the right to be excited (Hell yeah, PS4 is a great console!), but posting some stuff about "denial reports" is just a weebit too much excitement for my taste.
And yeah, that article sucks (as I mentioned in my post). I love garlic and onion too.
@
It's a given AMD has not the rights to talk about customers' products, what do you think of it? Have you something to say about it?
AMD's most recent quote describing the Huma statments to be inaccurate makes me wonder what the hell is actually going on . I would not be surprised if PS4 has Huma like features based upon its design... but I see no reason why AMD would sign some NDA regarding its own architecture it built for Sony. You would think Sony would want to hype up its machine by allowing AMD to talk about its tech more fully. Microsoft wanting an NDA is no surprise, the box has no power or secret sauce (relatively that is).
Chobel
Member
I'd go through this thread to highlight some of the best nuggets but then I'd be highlighting 29 pages. How fucking embarrassing...
Maybe read the damn article not just the title before doing any of that.
Vestal
Junior Member
the headline is click bate it is not supported by the text in the article.
Boss Man
Member
I edited
So their stance is that they will not comment on the different APUs at all?
Nightengale
Member
I'd go through this thread to highlight some of the best nuggets but then I'd be highlighting 29 pages. How fucking embarrassing...
Except that you read nothing.
MrPresident
Banned
That's how I see it. If the statement was inaccurate then that should either mean that neither console CPU supports hUMA or that both of them do. I'd be more surprised if the Xbox One were left out than the former being true.
Personally, I wouldn't put too much stock in a PR person's knowledge of these systems and even if he's from AMD. IBM's Twitter account told everyone that Wii U would be based on Power7. I find it more likely that heise reported accurately but that the source was plain wrong.
This is getting a bit childish even for an internet forum.
hUMA is a copyrighted trademark, both PS4 and XBONE probably have some sort of implementation that allows something very similar, XBONE with ESRAM+MOVE engines; PS4 with customized bridges.
The only reason this thread has gone on like it has is because it showed Xbone in a negative light.
hUMA is a copyrighted trademark, both PS4 and XBONE probably have some sort of implementation that allows something very similar, XBONE with ESRAM+MOVE engines; PS4 with customized bridges.
The only reason this thread has gone on like it has is because it showed Xbone in a negative light.
As many people said throughout the thread, it was weird from the beginning that AMD said anything comparative about both APUs. Apparently the spokesperson said more than he was supposed to or didn't anticipate the visibility, so they retracted the statement. Saying the something is "inaccurate" is exactly what you say when you neither want to confirm or disconfirm something somebody spilled out.
I don't understand why all theses Xbone fans are getting so bent out of shape. Do you think that if MS really wanted a machine that would blow the PS4 out of the water AMD would somehow deny them?! MS could easily outspend Sony if they so desired.
MS clearly went to AMD with a specific philosophy in mind. AMD didn't keep hUMA a secret from them. They just didn't want it. The Xbone's architecture represents and reflects this philosophy and shows what MS wanted the machine to be.
Sony wanted a games machine. Raw power. As bleeding edge as their 'off the shelf and at a decent price' philosophy would allow. So they have an architecture that allows for hUMA.
What exactly are we arguing here?
Somewhere a marketing guy who specializes in keeping people on brand during interviews is weeping tears of joy.
MS clearly went to AMD with a specific philosophy in mind. AMD didn't keep hUMA a secret from them. They just didn't want it. The Xbone's architecture represents and reflects this philosophy and shows what MS wanted the machine to be.
Sony wanted a games machine. Raw power. As bleeding edge as their 'off the shelf and at a decent price' philosophy would allow. So they have an architecture that allows for hUMA.
What exactly are we arguing here?
Somewhere a marketing guy who specializes in keeping people on brand during interviews is weeping tears of joy.
Monumental
Banned
Unlike many of you here, I have no interest in "discussing" conjecture and wishful thinking with people who don't understand any of this in the first place for 29 pages. Because that's all any of this is ...wishful thinking.
The biggest "proof" any of you have is "bububub the PS4 architecture is custom so it's still possible, and based cerny said something that sounded like the something that this something is". Please.
Boss Man
Member
Dude, a spokesman from the company whose parts drive both consoles said that the gap between the two will be more than what many have expected. That's why the thread was popular.
I only read threads with topics that are of interest to me.
That's what it appears to be.
It's like when Phil Harrison commented on the 24 hour check-in and every Microsoft rep under the sun started saying that wasn't true and it was still a moving target.
The AMD rep said it and now they are retracting it, because their policy is to not comment on specific customers.
Sounds like MS has the custom move engines to do what hUMA would do but the custom solution will work better with the ESRAM in the One.
Vestal
Junior Member
really the AMD spoke person said this?? Would love to see a quote, because reading the OP it sounds more like a formulated opinion by the writer rather than a clear cut statement.
I'd go through this thread to highlight some of the best nuggets but then I'd be highlighting 29 pages. How fucking embarrassing...
Read the links provided before...
So the claim that "Kabini doesn't support hUMA" therefore the PS4 doesn't support hUMA is inaccurate?
GravityMan
Member
I doubt AMD will confirm anytime soon - if ever - if the PS4 does/doesn't support hUMA, or if the Xbox One does/doesn't support it. It's in their best interest to remain neutral. Especially considering their current financial standing.
Also, learn to take statements and comments from PR people with a grain of salt, especially when it pertains to highly technical stuff. (a) they're unlikely to have a good understanding of the stuff, which escalates risk of something being stated inaccurately, and (b) many companies are careful about the internal information they disseminate to their PR spokespeople and community managers.
Also, learn to take statements and comments from PR people with a grain of salt, especially when it pertains to highly technical stuff. (a) they're unlikely to have a good understanding of the stuff, which escalates risk of something being stated inaccurately, and (b) many companies are careful about the internal information they disseminate to their PR spokespeople and community managers.
thunder_snail
Member
Huh. I thought the memory shared by cpu and gpu in this slide means killzone's utilizing huma features.
From my limited experience with graphics coding using opengl (simple raytracer and loop subdivision etc, not real time game stuff), you couldn't really do that with traditional cpu+gpu models.
Will wait for the actual comparisons over unnamed sources.
ThatChairMan
Member
Could that be because of hUMA, or just the GPU and ram being better? Possibly both?
I have a question for the more technologically savvy members, kind-of sort-of about the topic but not really;
Last time around (back in 2005, that is) I remember a lot of discussion about various architectural features in Xenos that people were saying would put it above and beyond the PS3, stuff like MEMEXPORT, and iirc something about how it was much better at 'dynamic branching' than RSX.
Did any of these end up being meaningful? As I recall in the end the RSX ended up being basically as powerful as the Xenos anyway, so I'm assuming they weren't the secret sauce that some people thought they would be?
Last time around (back in 2005, that is) I remember a lot of discussion about various architectural features in Xenos that people were saying would put it above and beyond the PS3, stuff like MEMEXPORT, and iirc something about how it was much better at 'dynamic branching' than RSX.
Did any of these end up being meaningful? As I recall in the end the RSX ended up being basically as powerful as the Xenos anyway, so I'm assuming they weren't the secret sauce that some people thought they would be?
Yes, it should be. Or then PS4 has just a Kabini APU and is massively underpowered.
We can use "the based discrete part" that is Kabini as a hint (if it's really based of, and it's probably false too but i'm no techie) of what can do "as a base" the APU in PS4... But making facts using that is totally inaccurate.
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
Again proof is in the pudding and we just haven't see it be "far ahead" of X1 in anything yet, I think most of us expected this to be aparent at E3 and then GC which it was not.
This tells me that even though PS4 hardware is clearly more powerful they probably just aren't as optimized as X1 on the drivers\software side yet......there really is no other explanation.
phosphor112
Banned
Huh. I thought the memory shared by cpu and gpu in this slide means killzone's utilizing huma features.
From my limited experience with graphics coding using opengl (simple raytracer and loop subdivision etc, not real time game stuff), you couldn't really do that with traditional cpu+gpu models.
It does suggest a unified address space, maybe. And apparently a SCEA engineer referred to it as such in another presentation.
That's one hUMA feature.
There are others though. By Cerny's comments I think PS4 could qualify for another of those criteria, but not necessarily all (e.g. maybe it doesn't support universal virtual addresses for paging).
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Huh. I thought the memory shared by cpu and gpu in this slide means killzone's utilizing huma features.
From my limited experience with graphics coding using opengl (simple raytracer and loop subdivision etc, not real time game stuff), you couldn't really do that with traditional cpu+gpu models.
whats in the shared memory area?
I think both consoles have their own implementations to get similar result.Maybe the PS4 is a more standard AMD huma specification while Xbox isn't due to the esram.Also maybe the Marketing Manager wanted to associate the Kaveri processors with the stronger console for marketing purposes.
Especially display lists, that is, lists of geometrical primitives together with instructions to draw them. The CPU assembles them as a kind of "task list" that the GPU executes in order to draw the frame. This is usually done via a bus like PCI, here it is done via the shared memory.
Pseudo judo
Member
Truth summarily ignored, argument without basis continues.
bigboss370
Member
I dunno if its just me, but I already thought it was revealed that PS4 was using unified memory a long time ago, and specs leaks and X1 reveal showed X1 did not have it.
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