TC McQueen
Member
Well, someone apparently got a Ryzen R5 1400 early and made a video about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbDpMWo7XTk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbDpMWo7XTk
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AMD Ryzen Thread: Affordable Core Act
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DemonCleaner
Member
i cant believe that not anyone has tested that before...
When CPU-limited, performance scaling with frequency seems to be almost perfectly linear in my tests using a 2500K.
This thread really just arguing over irrelevant benchmarks? Firmware and support aren't there yet for Ryzen, any comparisons with Intels more mature architecture isn't an apples and apples comparison. When Conroe first came out the gaming performance didn't blow AMD Out of the water and people kind of flipped, look how that turned out.
Mathiassen
Member
It is apples to apples for consumers who's purchasing decision are made now and not soon. AMD released the product, they think it's mature enough for release.
Anyways, the difference between AMD and NVIDIA GPUs used with Ryzen was interesting.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
I don't see the same type of advancements made with Kaby Lake one month after release.
Mathiassen
Member
Is it advancements or is it things that should have been there from the start? who knows.
It seems Nvidia is still reliant on a heavy single thread even for its DX12 driver, so it may be falling into the same typical scheduler-force-moved-me-across-CCXes performance grave as so many similar cases with Ryzen under Windows.
Think of it like MMOs. When you release your new MMO you aren't competing with WoW at release, you're competing with WoW after 10+ years of patches/content.
Waits for someone to point out how vanilla WoW was better
Pretty good video
I didn't make it till April. I think my decision to buy an i7 7700 at $219 the other day looks like it's going to be a good deal / decision.
For the price and game performance I probably got the better deal there. I still want to make an AMD build for something.
brain_stew
Member
When an RX 470 is beating a GTX 1060 by 32% there is definitely something wrong. No card from that market segment should be CPU bottlenecked on a R7 1700 so the problem lies elsewhere.
DemonCleaner
Member
not a good video at all. he's testing a CPU by reducing draw calls (which he is effectively doing with lowering to medium settings - if he doesn't want to run into a GPU bottleneck with his 1060 he should have rather reduced resolution). this is pretty stupid as you just pronounce frequency differences this way.
secondly he tested games that are known to work better on DX11 for ryzen 7 in DX12 mode.
justsomeguy
Member
It's not irrelevant for people who are looking at a new build in the near future and want something that is the best price / performance for today.
Promises of future potential are well and good and relevant for discussion but that doesn't invalidate discussing todays state of play.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
You're not wrong there.
That pesky Nvidia up to their old tricks again, huh?
When CPU-limited, performance scaling with frequency seems to be almost perfectly linear in my tests using a 2500K.
Doesn't work like that when the CPU in question is already clocked at 3.6Ghz.
brain_stew
Member
Overclocked R5 1400 results at 3.8ghz now:
https://youtu.be/TcdmeGOsnss
Using a RX 480 to get around the Nvidia DX12 driver bottleneck and these are much more promising results.
Mentions that he had to run the fan at 100% speed and it still hit 80C.
The 1500 with the beefier Wraith Spire and double the L3 cache looks like the better buy to me for an extra $20. Should be capable of handling a decent overclock without an aftermarket cooler or resorting to pegging the fan to 100%.
https://youtu.be/TcdmeGOsnss
Using a RX 480 to get around the Nvidia DX12 driver bottleneck and these are much more promising results.
Mentions that he had to run the fan at 100% speed and it still hit 80C.
The 1500 with the beefier Wraith Spire and double the L3 cache looks like the better buy to me for an extra $20. Should be capable of handling a decent overclock without an aftermarket cooler or resorting to pegging the fan to 100%.
LelouchZero
Member
Then you can expect something close to an 11% gain from 3.6GHz to 4GHz without 'turbo' features enabled.
Well that doesn't make any sense, since the i5-2500K I used for this test is a 3.3GHz processor stock, overclocked to 4.5GHz, and then clocked down to 2.3GHz for this comparison.
In all cases performance scaled linearly when CPU-limited.
LelouchZero
Member
This is absolutely ridiculous! All along it was the damn NVIDIA drivers! I should have known, as DX12 performs much better on AMD GPUs than DX11, and can even outperform NVIDIA GPUs in software that uses DX12.
Great stuff by the guy who runs the 'AdoredTV' channel and the others who noticed things like this, this is how it's done. You experiment and find things out.
We're mostly only finding out about this now because a lot of reviewers were testing the highest performing GPUs on the market and those would be NVIDIA's GPUs, as AMD currently don't have anything to compete against the GTX 1080 and above until Vega arrives, which should be arriving soon.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL_sfYUCEg8Og_I4k7nL62IsMrJv5rFRa_&v=QBf2lvfKkxA
Shocking how the 'tech press' missed this. That's exactly what some of these sites should be investigating if Ryzen was throwing up some big anomalies. But in this culture of 'first' and impatience, all they cared about was getting their review out asap.
But even the late reviews were completely oblivious.
Another one with the same findings:
German magazine "C't" did some benchmarks with a Fury X, too. (and the 1800X)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...agazine_ct_did_a_test_with_a_fury_x/?sort=new
Shocking how the 'tech press' missed this. That's exactly what some of these sites should be investigating if Ryzen was throwing up some big anomalies. But in this culture of 'first' and impatience, all they cared about was getting their review out asap.
But even the late reviews were completely oblivious.
Another one with the same findings:
German magazine "C't" did some benchmarks with a Fury X, too. (and the 1800X)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...agazine_ct_did_a_test_with_a_fury_x/?sort=new
This is significant since you have to consider that the FuryX is about half the speed of a Titan X Pascal. The 720P results show that the Fury X/Ryzen combo is very close to the TXP in most of the games tested, not just in ROTTR or in DX12 only. The problem seems to affect DX11 too since the Fury X is doing so well against the TXP in Shadow or Mordor and the other DX11 games. If they had used mGPU FuryX to simulate a TXP equivalent AMD card, the Ryzen would have easily beaten the best Intel+TXP score in all the games tested. This is more confirmation that the Nvidia gpu driver is a major factor in poor Ryzen gaming performance.
Definitely interesting developments over the passed few days, with AOTS and nVidias drivers. New tech is always so fun.
With the latest 514 bios on the Asus Prime B350M-A board, I've been able to use my 2x16gb G.Skill TridentZ 3200 CL14 (14-14-14-34) at 1.35v at DDR2400... a step up from default DDR2133 with looser timings. Using DOCP target 2400. I tried higher targets with up to +0.2v SOC offset, but ran into infinite boot times, which are annoying as it requires me to clear the CMOS. As opposed to when on default, which goes through the 5 cycle failure routine. I'd try faster speed with looser timings but, I don't have time for that right now.
It still isn't reading my 1800X temperatures correctly it seems... But my motherboard temps seemed to have dropped significantly.
With the latest 514 bios on the Asus Prime B350M-A board, I've been able to use my 2x16gb G.Skill TridentZ 3200 CL14 (14-14-14-34) at 1.35v at DDR2400... a step up from default DDR2133 with looser timings. Using DOCP target 2400. I tried higher targets with up to +0.2v SOC offset, but ran into infinite boot times, which are annoying as it requires me to clear the CMOS. As opposed to when on default, which goes through the 5 cycle failure routine. I'd try faster speed with looser timings but, I don't have time for that right now.
It still isn't reading my 1800X temperatures correctly it seems... But my motherboard temps seemed to have dropped significantly.
Using his modus operandi dr_rus could easily argue it's actually Pascal's hardware design that's broken.
More like Nvidia is underperforming using DX12 on Ryzen, but yes.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Using his modus operandi dr_rus could easily argue it's actually Pascal's hardware design that's broken.
Something tells me a different set of rules will be applied there lol.
Nvidia's drivers have taken a nose-dive of late. DX12 performance is shocking in these games, and I reckon it's mostly software based but also hardware too.
Vega vs 1080/1080 Ti in DX12/Vulkan is going to produce fireworks.
This is getting off-topic, but I wouldn't be surprised if the cause is completely in software. Nvidia for years (decades?) is using a platform agnostic binary blob as driver which they then adapt to interface with their different hardware as well as the different platforms and graphics APIs. This is how they manage to support new APIs quite quickly, and as the driver can also implement graphics features in software the resulting all-encompassing driver support without differences in features has been one of Nvidia's big selling point over all the years. Now the issue with DX12/Vulkan and Ryzen is that those work best by exploiting multithreading while Nvidia's unified driver blob worked perfectly well without heavy multithreading up to this point.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Interesting. Agnostic binary blob is also the best technical term I heard this year.
It seems to me AMD is going all-in with multi-threading. Vega + Ryzen could make for a killer combo for a gaming rig when the dust settles.
FYI binary blob is a common term for proprietary closed software drivers under Linux (and by extension Android) and Nvidia is probably the best known actors using such there (loved by gamers' for its feature parity, frowned upon by those wanting a transparent system).
Unknown Soldier
Member
Yes, in much the same way Polaris vs. 1060 produced fireworks.
Wait.
LOL
If Vega can't even outperform a 1080 how's it going to take on the 1080 Ti?
Rushersauce
Banned
yeah! because the rx480 is shit and loses in every game againts the 1060!
OH WAIT
And it's funny you already have Vega benchmarks....
Unknown Soldier
Member
The RX 480, despite being the All-Hyped DX12 video card, at best matches the 1060, trading blows with it losing some benchmarks and winning others.
So you'll forgive me if I'm less than interested in how the Vega performs when I'm already planning on buying a 1080 Ti.
I like Ryzen quite a bit for what it offers and this is a Ryzen thread so I don't even know why people are bringing Vega up in it. But the Radeon line has consistently been a day late and a dollar short and Vega is unlikely to change that reality.
Rushersauce
Banned
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
The only thing that will be a dollar short is you after paying the Nvidia mark-up for your 1080 Ti. Vega will be cheaper at least.
thelastword
Banned
Has the vega already been released? Link me to some reviews.....don't know how i missed the launch because i've been anticipating the thing for so long......
Unknown Soldier
Member
What mark-up? Are there currently any competitive products with the 1080 Ti that I'm unaware of? When there's only one product in a category, there is no mark-up. It's either take it or leave it.
Sure, Vega will be cheaper. And it will perform less. So I'm not understanding what you mean by mark-up here. If it performs less, it ought to cost less.
Anyways, this is the Ryzen thread. So I've said all I will say about Vega here..
I have no idea about current 1080ti pricing but if there is an MSRP and retailers are selling it for above MSRP isn't that the definition of a markup?
If you want to make that argument I think you can only do that with something that doesn't have a set MSRP.
If you guys want a good explanation of the new AotS patch and the Ryzen improvements, here's a good explanation of it: https://twitter.com/FioraAeterna/status/847472586581712897
LelouchZero
Member
neurosisxeno
Member
You said "Nvidia mark-up" implying Nvidia was overcharging for their products, not retailers. That's what he was arguing. On top of that, the people with the highest performing hardware always set the price where they want it. Remember how much the 7970 cost before the 680 dropped?
I actually didn't say any such thing but ok, I did misread the post he quoted... If he was arguing that Nvidia set their price too high in which case I agree with you, they can set it to whatever they think the market will bear.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
What mark-up? So you think they just about break-even on those £830 1080 Tis? Come on dude.
When the 980 Ti came out, you could get them for £550. Now the new generation of that card cost £800. That's a pretty astonishing £250 mark-up in such a short space of time. There's no excuse for it.
980 Ti launched at $649 and the 1080 Ti is $699.
The UK price is £699 not £800. Blame Brexit for increase from £549 to £699. If not for that, it probably would have been £599.
This is all getting very off-topic though.
A really interesting video that helps to explain some of the uneven game performance on Ryzen and why AMD's GPUs seem less affected by it:
AMD vs NV Drivers: A Brief History and Understanding Scheduling & CPU Overhead
Hopefully this is something that NVIDIA will be working to improve.
AMD vs NV Drivers: A Brief History and Understanding Scheduling & CPU Overhead
Hopefully this is something that NVIDIA will be working to improve.
Interesting video. Makes me wonder how well Vega will improve AMD's hardware scheduler in DX11. Also if true, it seems reviewers who are doing CPU performance testing really should be using AMD cards as that would isolate the CPU more.
What A Time To Be Alive
Member
You dont even know that though. Nobody knows how Vega performs.