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American Sniper Trial Verdict Reached: Guilty

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Just breaking on CNN

Will update when a text story breaks.

He was found guilty of killing Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield, the US Sniper who was the basis for the recent hit movie.

A jury has found Eddie Ray Routh guilty of capital murder in the deaths of two men, including Chris Kyle, the author of the bestselling book "American Sniper." He was immediately sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.


A verdict has been reached in the trial of the man accused of killing Chris Kyle, subject of the hit film "American Sniper," and Kyle's friend at a Texas firing range two years ago.

The reading of the verdict is expected to begin soon. The jury began deliberations at 7:36 p.m. ET.

No one disputes that Eddie Ray Routh shot and killed the men. But defense attorneys say Routh was insane.

Prosecutors dismiss that claim outright.

"Ladies and gentleman, that is not insanity. That is just cold, calculated capital murder. He is guilty of capital murder. He is not in any way insane," said attorney Jane Starnes during closing arguments.

She claimed Routh knew the difference between right and wrong.

Suspect's confession played at trial

Starnes urged jurors to "follow the law," allowing the law to guide them "to the true and correct verdict."

For its part, the defense pointed to Routh's long history of mental illness.

"He killed those men because he had a delusion. He believed in his mind that they were going to kill him," said attorney J. Warren St. John.

Jurors deliberating the case had three choices: guilty, not guilty, or not guilty by reason of insanity.

Lawyer: Kyle called Routh 'straight-up nuts' in text

Routh's trial comes in the wake of the release of the film about Kyle, a former Navy SEAL who claimed to be the deadliest sniper in U.S. history, with 160 confirmed kills in Iraq.

"American Sniper," directed by Clint Eastwood and starring Bradley Cooper, is already the highest-grossing war movie.

Kyle's autobiography by the same name spent weeks on best-seller lists. He had already risen to fame through his book when he died and was involved in charitable work to help former troops suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

Kyle and his friend, Chad Littlefield, took Routh to the firing range as a kind of therapy.

The range is a small, remote part of the sprawling 11,000-acre Rough Creek Lodge, and the men were isolated.

A hunting guide found Kyle, 38, and Littlefield, 35, who also was a veteran, motionless and called 911. The men were dead when officers arrived.
 

Chumly

Member
Well he is definitely mentally ill so it was just whether or not he had the mental capacity at the time he killed them. Hearing some of the arguments I didn't necessarily buy that he was insane at the time it happened although based off his documented history of illness it was worth a serious consideration. Not necessarily the slam dunk trial that a few people made it out to be.
 
Well he is definitely mentally ill so it was just whether or not he had the mental capacity at the time he killed them. Hearing some of the arguments I didn't necessarily buy that he was insane at the time it happened although based off his documented history of illness it was worth a serious consideration. Not necessarily the slam dunk trial that a few people made it out to be.

Texas law doesn't give him much out. It was a slam dunk because any idea of right and wrong that poped into his head would mean the insanity defense disappears.

Edit: I may be wrong and I'll edit that out until I look a bit more
 

Trouble

Banned
Well he is definitely mentally ill so it was just whether or not he had the mental capacity at the time he killed them. Hearing some of the arguments I didn't necessarily buy that he was insane at the time it happened although based off his documented history of illness it was worth a serious consideration. Not necessarily the slam dunk trial that a few people made it out to be.

Sums up my thoughts pretty well.
 
Bullshit. Don't particularly care about the sentence, that's fine--but th verdict is silly. What's his motive? You telling me that guys we train to kill and that are put in mind breaking situations can have issues coming back that would make taking them to a gun range an awful decision? Yeah right!
 

Fury451

Banned
If I remember correctly Chris Kyle brought him there.

It was an attempt at therapy for him.

If I recall correctly, Chris Kyle sought to help others with PTSD, and using the firing range had been helpful in the past at working through some of that stuff for guys he worked with. Unfortunately it didn't this time, really tragic.
 
Bullshit. Don't particularly care about the sentence, that's fine--but th verdict is silly. What's his motive? You telling me that guys we train to kill and that are put in mind breaking situations can have issues coming back that would make taking them to a gun range an awful decision? Yeah right!

Didn't Routh never leave the Air Base in Iraq during his one deployment and never see combat?
 
Bullshit. Don't particularly care about the sentence, that's fine--but th verdict is silly. What's his motive? You telling me that guys we train to kill and that are put in mind breaking situations can have issues coming back that would make taking them to a gun range an awful decision? Yeah right!

You don't need to prove motive to convict someone of murder. Its very helpful but the man admitted to pulling the trigger on the gun
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/23/us/eddie-ray-routh-american-sniper-motive/

There's a lot in the article there ^
 

ramuh

Member
Bullshit. Don't particularly care about the sentence, that's fine--but th verdict is silly. What's his motive? You telling me that guys we train to kill and that are put in mind breaking situations can have issues coming back that would make taking them to a gun range an awful decision? Yeah right!

I personally don't see that you need a motive to convict someone of a crime. Especially Murder.
 
I personally don't see that you need a motive to convict someone of a crime. Especially Murder.

Actual, motive is quite important.

For example, lets say you kill someone.

Motive is the why you did it. Guy broke into your house? Not a crime to shoot him(castle doctrine). Guy attacked you? Not a crime to shoot him (self-defense). Shooting at a deer, miss, and hits hits a rock before ricocheting into another hunter? Probably not a crime (hunting accident?). Kill a guy because he slept with your wife? Well now, that's certainty a crime (murder). Kill a black guy because he looked at your daughter the wrong way, to keep the other blacks in line? Very much a crime (murder, and a hate-crime). Forgot to stop at a intersection and t-bone a car, killing someone? A crime, probably vehicular homicide or such, but not murder.

Etc and so forth.
 

C4Lukins

Junior Member
The guy belongs in a hospital for the rest of his life. i am not typically all that simpathetic towards murderers, but this dude was completely gone for years.

This was a crazy person by all accounts. He is going to end up in isolation, beating his head against a wall. Not that he deserves better, but it is the wrong verdict.
 

Cat Party

Member
Actual, motive is quite important.

For example, lets say you kill someone.

Motive is the why you did it. Guy broke into your house? Not a crime to shoot him(castle doctrine). Guy attacked you? Not a crime to shoot him (self-defense). Shooting at a deer, miss, and hits hits a rock before ricocheting into another hunter? Probably not a crime (hunting accident?). Kill a guy because he slept with your wife? Well now, that's certainty a crime (murder). Kill a black guy because he looked at your daughter the wrong way, to keep the other blacks in line? Very much a crime (murder, and a hate-crime). Forgot to stop at a intersection and t-bone a car, killing someone? A crime, probably vehicular homicide or such, but not murder.

Etc and so forth.

Motive is not the same as intent. Intent is required for murder. Motive is not.
 

NexusCell

Member
I just read that CNN article on his remarks. He honestly seemed delusional when he shot them and remains that way even after he was arrested. Even though I sort of agree that he should be sent to a mental institution, I can see why he would be convicted.
 

SURGEdude

Member
I just read that CNN article on his remarks. He honestly seemed delusional when he shot them and remains that way even after he was arrested. Even though I sort of agree that he should be sent to a mental institution, I can see why he would be convicted.

He did seem pretty nuts but insanity defenses are quite difficult to pull off. Not surprised at the verdict one bit.

Prison for somebody that kills a hero (to some) is not going to be a fun place for him.
 

Chumly

Member
Why was a mentally ill man at a firing range?
Chris Kyle specifically took people with PTSD to the firing range as therapy. I guess it helped other guys but to me it throws up huge red flags. Someone with PTSD at a firing range and has an episode is a massive risk.
 
Sorry, not going to say good like everyone else. I'm not trying to excuse the actions, just that the guy clearly had some severe issues. He doesn't belong in prison for the rest of his life, he isn't going to receive the care that he needs.
 

Velcro Fly

Member
Dude ran after he killed them

And was asked repeatedly if he knew what he did was wrong and he said yes.

I'm sure he had PTSD but that doesn't absolve you from everything you do

He definitely needs help though but he isn't going to get it in prison.
 

MattyG

Banned
Chris Kyle specifically took people with PTSD to the firing range as therapy. I guess it helped other guys but to me it throws up huge red flags. Someone with PTSD at a firing range and has an episode is a massive risk.
Yeah, every time I hear this story it strikes me as very irresponsible. I'm not trying to "victim blame" or whatever, but it just seems like a poor descision to bring a veteran with PTSD to a firing range. Like you said, I'm sure it helped some guys, but is it really worth the risk of triggering an episode (which it clearly did)?

Like others have said though, I can understand both lines of thinking (innocent due to mental health or guilty).
 

Dali

Member
Motive is, per dictionary.com



I'm not sure how you could commit any act without a motive to act. How would you kill someone without any cause whatsoever?
Motive is reason you have to kill someone. Intent in that context means you intended to kill them. You can have a reason - a motive - to commit murder but not intend to do it.
 
Yeah, every time I hear this story it strikes me as very irresponsible. I'm not trying to "victim blame" or whatever, but it just seems like a poor descision to bring a veteran with PTSD to a firing range. Like you said, I'm sure it helped some guys, but is it really worth the risk of triggering an episode (which it clearly did)?

Like others have said though, I can understand both lines of thinking (innocent due to mental health or guilty).

I don't think Routh actually had a PTSD (from the military, anyways). Iirc, he never actually saw combat.

The issue here was probably that Kyle - who wasn't a psychiatrist - saw a veteran with mental issues and tried to put him through the therapy that he gives people with PTSD. Except that Routh didn't have PTSD, and was just a sociopathic lunatic who now had a gun.
 
I don't think Routh actually had a PTSD (from the military, anyways). Iirc, he never actually saw combat.

The issue here was probably that Kyle - who wasn't a psychiatrist - saw a veteran with mental issues and tried to put him through the therapy that he gives people with PTSD. Except that Routh didn't have PTSD, and was just a sociopathic lunatic who now had a gun.

This isn't the only way you can get PTSD. FYI
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
I don't know I'd go with "not guilty by reason of insanity." More like "guilty by reason of insanity." Dude admitted he knew what he did. But the real splitting hairs is if he did it under a PTSD freak-out or just cold-blooded murder.
 
Chris Kyle specifically took people with PTSD to the firing range as therapy. I guess it helped other guys but to me it throws up huge red flags. Someone with PTSD at a firing range and has an episode is a massive risk.

I have PTSD, and I shoot every Sunday. PTSD does not make you a walking time bomb.
 

MattyG

Banned
I have PTSD, and I shoot every Sunday. PTSD does not make you a walking time bomb.
Honest question since I'm not well read on PTSD and the way it affects people, can it manifest itself this way (making them volatile in certain situations)? Or is this a misconception?
 
Honest question since I'm not well read on PTSD and the way it affects people, can it manifest itself this way (making them volatile in certain situations)? Or is this a misconception?

I can't speak for everyone, but with me its manifested in hyper vigilance/fuck being in large crowd/ unable to stay asleep long than 3 hours at a time. Its possible that PTSD may cause sudden mood swings causing bursts of anger. There has been a case of Vietnam vet having flashback causing them to get violent at a Burger King. It's a complicated mental disorder that manifests itself in so many ways that we just don't have all the scientific answers yet.
 
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