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[TheSeks]

I can't speak for everyone, but with me its manifested in hyper vigilance/fuck being in large crowd/ unable to stay asleep long than 3 hours at a time. Its possible that PTSD may cause sudden mood swings causing bursts of anger. There has been a case of Vietnam vet having flashback causing them to get violent at a Burger King. It's a complicated mental disorder that manifests itself in so many ways that we just don't have all the scientific answers yet.

That said: Would you purposely take someone to a gun range for "therapy" without making sure ahead of time that they (possibly) don't get triggered while holding a gun?

I don't disagree that it's a "complicated mental disorder." But that's the thing: It's extremely complicated and I'm not sure I'd trust taking someone to the range until you were pretty sure it wasn't going to cause them to have a flashback/trigger and lose control?

 

[MattyG]

I can't speak for everyone, but with me its manifested in hyper vigilance/fuck being in large crowd/ unable to stay asleep long than 3 hours at a time. Its possible that PTSD may cause sudden mood swings causing bursts of anger. There has been a case of Vietnam vet having flashback causing them to get violent at a Burger King. It's a complicated mental disorder that manifests itself in so many ways that we just don't have all the scientific answers yet.

Ok, that makes sense. I assumed it wasn't super cut and dry with how it affected people. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

That said: Would you purposely take someone to a gun range for "therapy" without making sure ahead of time that they (possibly) don't get triggered while holding a gun?

I don't disagree that it's a "complicated mental disorder." But that's the thing: It's extremely complicated and I'm not sure I'd trust taking someone to the range until you were pretty sure it wasn't going to cause them to have a flashback/trigger and lose control?

I can't give that good of an answer but I'll explain why a gun range helps. It keeps a sense of familiarity and structure to most veterans. The transition from active duty to civilian can be extremely difficult, shutting off that war time mindset can be nearly impossible. Having just one day to practice marksmanship helps keep things in perspective.

 

[TheSeks]

I can't give that good of an answer but I'll explain why a gun range helps. It keeps a sense of familiarity and structure to most veterans. The transition from active duty to civilian can be extremely difficult, shutting off that war time mindset can be nearly impossible. Having just one day to practice marksmanship helps keep things in perspective.

Right. I get that. But that doesn't answer what I asked. Would you, as a therapist, take someone with a complicated mental illness without knowing what "triggers" them to a gun-range?

See, the thing I'm thinking is: Eddie could've gone on his own if he felt "comfortable enough" around the guns to have the "routine" while transitioning to civilian life. I don't get why the PTSD therapy would jump right into guns without easing into that. But I'm not a PTSD therapist or a psychologist so I can't say.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

This isn't the only way you can get PTSD. FYI

Yes, which is why I added the "from the military" disclaimer, although I guess I could've been more specific and said "from combat".

Kyle tried to treat him as though he had a combat-related PTSD using therapy methods that worked on previous individuals with combat-related PTSD. Routh did not have combat-related PTSD, and considering how he went and murdered two people in cold blood, it's a safe guess that he had other issues that needed to be worked out.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Dude ran after he killed them

And was asked repeatedly if he knew what he did was wrong and he said yes.

I'm sure he had PTSD but that doesn't absolve you from everything you do

He definitely needs help though but he isn't going to get it in prison.

Exactly. When he is sane, he'll regret. When he is not, he'll be even worse in prison. He needs a therapist, not a warden.

Edit: And a therapist who has a bit more common sense than to give his patients actual bullets... holy crap

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Right. I get that. But that doesn't answer what I asked. Would you, as a therapist, take someone with a complicated mental illness without knowing what "triggers" them to a gun-range?

See, the thing I'm thinking is: Eddie could've gone on his own if he felt "comfortable enough" around the guns to have the "routine" while transitioning to civilian life. I don't get why the PTSD therapy would jump right into guns without easing into that. But I'm not a PTSD therapist or a psychologist so I can't say.

In this murder case Chris was asked by the mother of his would be murderer to take him to the range. He had no idea how bad this guy was until after the fact unfortunately. The thing is you have to frame it in a certain cultural way. Going to the range can be the equivalent of going fishing, or something outdoors.

 

[DrForester]

Wow, that was fast. I heard this morning that they just might get to closing arguments today.

Kind of surprised they didn't go for the Death Penalty. War Hero murdered in Texas, seems like a automatic thing.

In this murder case Chris was asked by the mother of his would be murderer to take him to the range. He had no idea how bad this guy was until after the fact unfortunately. The thing is you have to frame it in a certain cultural way. Going to the range can be the equivalent of going fishing, or something outdoors.

This is something I think many non-gun owners don't understand about gun owners. Going to the range is quite often a recreational activity. I went often with my Grandfather, and it was quite enjoyable. It might sound strange to bring someone with PTSD to a range, but I can totally see the benefits. Particularly if it was an activity they enjoyed before the Military.

 

[apocalidiot]

I read a long piece about him and Kyle from the New Yorker and the guy had serious serious mental issues stemming from (I believe) PTSD. He was in hospitals and got released after the family was pretty sure he was ill and not suitable to come back home yet, etc. The whole thing is beyond tragic, esp how Kyle was helping those suffering from PTSD

If I remember correctly from that article, fireworks really fucked up the guys head (the man who killed Chris Kyle), and his family knew that. I think they were so overwhelmed with the idea that Kyle was one of their seemingly only hopes to help him, but having him go to a gun range, given his violent history after coming back from the war, should have probably stuck out as a bad idea.... damn

 

[Byakuya769]

Actual, motive is quite important.

For example, lets say you kill someone.

Motive is the why you did it. Guy broke into your house? Not a crime to shoot him(castle doctrine). Guy attacked you? Not a crime to shoot him (self-defense). Shooting at a deer, miss, and hits hits a rock before ricocheting into another hunter? Probably not a crime (hunting accident?). Kill a guy because he slept with your wife? Well now, that's certainty a crime (murder). Kill a black guy because he looked at your daughter the wrong way, to keep the other blacks in line? Very much a crime (murder, and a hate-crime). Forgot to stop at a intersection and t-bone a car, killing someone? A crime, probably vehicular homicide or such, but not murder.

Etc and so forth.

Thanks, didn't think I'd need to make that clear when we're discussing whether or not a guy was mentally disturbed when he committed the act. Forgot how many gaffers want to play lawyer, though.

 

[Sanjuro]

I have PTSD, and I shoot every Sunday. PTSD does not make you a walking time bomb.

I think the general misconception is when people think figures of war and PTSD, they think Rambo.

 

[Deified Data]

You know I didn't actually know Chris Kyle was dead until earlier this week. I kept seeing interviews with him on TV leading up to American Sniper and I thought the guy was still alive and kicking. It's weird how news can distort your reality. You could bring just about anyone back from the dead if you ran enough old interviews.

 

[marrec]

This isn't "good" for anyone really. The defendant isn't going to get any better in prison, he'll just rot there. The two dead people and still dead, and the prosecutor used "reefer madness" in order to push the guilty verdict even going so far as to evoke the word "munchies" during the closing statements.

This trial was a farce from beginning to end and is sad for everyone involved.

 

[Simmins]

I really don't think this was the correct verdict. Here is a guy who by all accounts has a form of PTSD, that may result in bursts of anger and violence, but instead of locking him in a treatment center to undergo therapy for an extended length of time we are sending him to prison. So, for someone with PTSD I would gather that his condition is not going to improve under the stress of a prison environment. It is probably going to get worse and I would fear that it may result in him killing himself, or killing others. It would be very unfortunate if a guard or another inmate who is in for much lesser charges would have to die or be seriously injured because of this verdict.

Also as admirable Kyles actions were in trying to rehabilitate veterans, it would seem to me to be very unsurprising that something like this would happen. I don't know if he did or would have been able to, but trying to speak to one of their doctors to establish if they could be a harm to themselves or others would have been the thing to do before taking them out to the field. And maybe he did do that, I don't know.