Amir M from microsoft:"future xbox platforms can play 1080 VC-1 content"
- Thread starter Kleegamefan
- Start date
open_mouth_:
> Earlier word had it containing HDDVD...
Not really. It's just speculation by fanboys who think that because M$ supported HD-DVD early on (to promote WMV9) then surely it must be in Xbox 2. It doesn't quite work that way.
jedimike:
> Why not? Sony did it with the PS2.
Sony is an electronics manufacturer and owns movie studios. Not only do they manufacture DVD drives themselves (when mean lower expenses) but they had an interest in pushing the format. Don't confuse Sony with M$.
> Earlier word had it containing HDDVD...
Not really. It's just speculation by fanboys who think that because M$ supported HD-DVD early on (to promote WMV9) then surely it must be in Xbox 2. It doesn't quite work that way.
jedimike:
> Why not? Sony did it with the PS2.
Sony is an electronics manufacturer and owns movie studios. Not only do they manufacture DVD drives themselves (when mean lower expenses) but they had an interest in pushing the format. Don't confuse Sony with M$.
Has anyobdy seen this? Since I can't make a new post.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20919
Something about a patent ATI submitting regading their new chipset.
"The patent, we think, is part of the effort to get CMOS processing - as in traditional processors - and dynamic logic processing - as in supercomputers - working on the same chip. Dynamic logic works at far faster speeds, hence the need for an integrated circuit to regulate the switching between the two. "
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20919
Something about a patent ATI submitting regading their new chipset.
"The patent, we think, is part of the effort to get CMOS processing - as in traditional processors - and dynamic logic processing - as in supercomputers - working on the same chip. Dynamic logic works at far faster speeds, hence the need for an integrated circuit to regulate the switching between the two. "
why would you pay $100 extra for backward compatibility, when you presumably already have an Xbox1? The other stuff seems minor in comparison. Playing HD-DVD is likely to work the same way the DVD stuff does - buy a remote which unlocks the capability and covers licensing costs. 40GB HD? No point if its not standard
gollumsluvslave
Member
Xenon will not launch at $299 with an HD-DVD drive.
The only possible way they could do that is if Toshiba or whatever HD-DVD maker were subsidising them to the hilt.
The problem with staggering any BC version of Xenon is this:-
The main selling point of BC IMO, is for a *launch* library of existing games. What is the point of giving people the option of this BC 6 months after Xenon is released?
IMO BC will be an option at launch, or never.
They can justify the segmenting of BC as an add-on, saying that anyone wanting BC, can pay the extra for it, but those that don't want/need it shouldn't have to pay through the nose for it...
...of course at the magic $299 price point consumers might expect BC after the PS2, plus there is much talk that the 299 entry point will be broken next gen anyway. Interesting times ahead for sure tho.
If M$ were really clever tho, they should move hell and earth to get the guys that made XBMC onto their team! :lol :lol
The only possible way they could do that is if Toshiba or whatever HD-DVD maker were subsidising them to the hilt.
The problem with staggering any BC version of Xenon is this:-
The main selling point of BC IMO, is for a *launch* library of existing games. What is the point of giving people the option of this BC 6 months after Xenon is released?
IMO BC will be an option at launch, or never.
They can justify the segmenting of BC as an add-on, saying that anyone wanting BC, can pay the extra for it, but those that don't want/need it shouldn't have to pay through the nose for it...
...of course at the magic $299 price point consumers might expect BC after the PS2, plus there is much talk that the 299 entry point will be broken next gen anyway. Interesting times ahead for sure tho.
If M$ were really clever tho, they should move hell and earth to get the guys that made XBMC onto their team! :lol :lol
It's just a hypothetical scenario guys...
The thing that makes the scenario plausible is that the base model and the complete model all use the same components for developers. The base unit would have to use HD-DVD if the complete unit did.
As mentioned earlier, the extra money is essentially for an Xbox built inside Xenon. The remote is just an added bonus for the more premium package. The hard drive is supported in all models, but with this model you'll now have the ability to have unlimited saves and have lots of room for your custom soundtracks and downloadable content. The base model would have mass storage, but it would mainly be used as the developer scratchpad and a little extra for game saves. The premium model with Windows Media Center would allow for video transfer from your PC or your TiVo (MS just signed an agreement backing TiVo at CES) and would also allow you to record your shows to DVD or HD-DVD.
The thing that makes the scenario plausible is that the base model and the complete model all use the same components for developers. The base unit would have to use HD-DVD if the complete unit did.
As mentioned earlier, the extra money is essentially for an Xbox built inside Xenon. The remote is just an added bonus for the more premium package. The hard drive is supported in all models, but with this model you'll now have the ability to have unlimited saves and have lots of room for your custom soundtracks and downloadable content. The base model would have mass storage, but it would mainly be used as the developer scratchpad and a little extra for game saves. The premium model with Windows Media Center would allow for video transfer from your PC or your TiVo (MS just signed an agreement backing TiVo at CES) and would also allow you to record your shows to DVD or HD-DVD.
cybamerc said:
Well, according to MS, Xenon is powerful enough to emulate Xbox. I think there were some legal issues regarding Nvidia though, so really all they need to add to Xenon is an Nvidia chip. Nobody is talking about building a whole xbox to stuff inside Xenon... just key components.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
With the amount of memory bandwidth and fillrate XENON will bring to the table, native in-game 1080p shouldnt be a big problem for the developers/publishers with the budget to do it...
To put into perspective, today you can find in-game 1080i in GT4 and there are quite a few 720p XBOX games (Soul Calibur2, NBA Ballers, Tony Hawk 4 and THUG, Freedom Fighters, Sims, T3, True Crime and others) and even a handful of 1080i XBOX games too(Siberia, Matrix, Dragons Lair and MX Unleashed)....
All things considering this gen, I don't think it will be a stretch to see accross the board support for HD games(native 720p, 1080i or 1080p) on all three next-gen consoles (XENON, PS3, Reggielution)....even the small XENON developers can buget for 480p or 1080i and then just let the built in XENON resize filter/scaler output video to whatever resolution your display can handle, be that 480, 720 or 1080.....shit....didn't Bill Gates himself say the next generation of games would be High-Def @ CES this month??
IMO, High-Def games are a no-brainer for next-gen gaming at this point...
Well, of course that would be great if true but, sadly, I think red-laser DVD will be used for XENON games.....
Don't get me wrong...I believe Microsoft *WANTS* to include an HD-DVD ROM drive in XENON but I don't think Toshiba/NEC will be able to deliver drives cheap enough for inclusion in the standard XENON....for the record, I hope Microsoft/Toshiba/NEC prove me wrong on this...
BTW cybermerc, the Microsoft/Toshiba/NEC deal is no mear fanboy speculation as I first read about it at places like TWICE.COM, WatchExpress.jp and some others I can't remember.....what I *do* recall is these were hardly gaming fanboi sources....
Industry rumor=YES
Fanboi Speculation=NO
On the subject of BW compatibility...I believe XENON will have more than enough horse power to emulate XBOX games and while it remains to be seen if they can get around the sticky nVidia patent issue the main reason you will have to buy the step-up XENON model for BW compability is the HDD....
I, myself, find it easy to believe MS is going for a much smaller form factor this time around.....I think that the standard XENON will rely on flash storage this time for saves....no HDD and no XBOX playing on this model.....for those who want more features can go to the mid-priced XENON SKU (and this is the model that most intrests me) which has XENON game playing abilties, will play HD-DVD movies and has an HDD for XBOX playing as well as some WMA/photo/WMV media capabilities.......this unit is going to happen as Mr. Bill said as much @ CES....or at lease he said it would concerning the increased media capabilites....I don't believe you will be able to do all this stuff without a HDD or at the $299 price point...
I also believe Microsoft will release some sort of product at the $299 pricepoint and that will be the sleek, game playing only XENON....
True, the HD-DVD may or may not ever happen since it is dependent on what Microsoft is willing to do and that could change at the very last moment...
Better get used to the idea of multiple XENON SKUs, though....MS is a company who, historically, is willing to throw stuff out in the market place to sees what sticks...
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
In theory, a sweetheart deal would be a no brainer....MS sold, what is it??...15 or 16 million XBOXs this gen?
Toshiba/NEC could do worse than associate themselves with Microsoft and have their drives inside XENONs....they are sure to sell at least 20 million of those next gen...this would be a good start against the ton of BRD drives that will be sold in PS3s...
In reality, though, these are all big corporations and everybody involved will want the best deal possible.....that may be enough to kill all hopes of HD-DVD drives in XENONs right there....
*BUT* as far as I know...its a go for HD-DVD in at least one of the XENON SKUs....for now...
Toshiba/NEC could do worse than associate themselves with Microsoft and have their drives inside XENONs....they are sure to sell at least 20 million of those next gen...this would be a good start against the ton of BRD drives that will be sold in PS3s...
In reality, though, these are all big corporations and everybody involved will want the best deal possible.....that may be enough to kill all hopes of HD-DVD drives in XENONs right there....
*BUT* as far as I know...its a go for HD-DVD in at least one of the XENON SKUs....for now...
"As to receivers generally not hadling our audio codec, this is true (at CES show though, Pioneer was showing $299 recievers with WMA Pro now). But the same is true of the new variations of audio codec in each format. So one way or the other, the folks on this thread at least, would need to be upgrading their audio gear. Lest you want analog output from your deck."
Fuck that. I recently got my 6.1 setup and the Xenon better support DD streams. If I have to get a $299 reciever just for WMA Pro support MS can eat my ass with a spork and some jelly.
Fuck that. I recently got my 6.1 setup and the Xenon better support DD streams. If I have to get a $299 reciever just for WMA Pro support MS can eat my ass with a spork and some jelly.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
You worry for nothing....
MY BOLD PREDICTION=XENON will also support Dolby Digital
see how easy that was?
MY BOLD PREDICTION=XENON will also support Dolby Digital
see how easy that was?
Kleegamefan said:
IAWTP
My prediction
2005 - Base Xenon w/DVD-ROM, hard drive optional accessory
2006 - Simulataneous w/ PS3 launch, Xenon HD w/HD-DVD, built in hard drive, PVR abilities etc.
All games will play exclusively on DVD-ROM, or at the very least, if an HD-DVD version is made, a multi-DVD-ROM solution will also be required.
op_ivy said:
Per the EE Times, VC-1 is "the SMPTE standard based on WMV9".
EDIT:
"Microsoft has given the impression that its WMV9 and SMPTE's VC-1 are one and the same, but there are differences. Windows Media includes many things that are not part of VC-1, including digital rights management, metadata, a playlist and a user interface. VC-1 is purely a video compression algorithm.
Weeeee!!!! No DRM!!!!!
HokieJoe said:
MS's DRM is not necessarily phone home. It offers a bunch of different options to the content provider, ONE OF WHICH is phone home. It is up to the content provider to choose which options they want to use.
You can pretty much guarantee that whatever DRM mechanism the AACS Licensing Authority (http://www.aacsla.com/) finalizes, it WILL have a phone home option in the spec somewhere.
It is up to Hollywood to decide which options they want to use, and it's up to YOU (the consumer) to force Hollywood not to turn on those options by voting with your wallet.
Edit:
Here is a slide deck: http://www.aacsla.com/media/AACS_Brief_CPTWG_v2.pdf
Edit 2:
And here is a draft spec overview: http://www.aacsla.com/media/AACS_Technical_Overview_040721.pdf
Edit 3:
Bingo. You'll note in Chapter 6:
Ergo, phone home.
CaptainABAB
Member
Microsoft has gotten pretty good at market segmentation (XP home/pro, all of the different office and visual studio versions, etc.)
In terms of games, it shouldn't be an issue. After all, you can run apps on xp home or pro and Nintendo did the same thing with GBA and GBA SP. Sony does it with all of their other hardware products.
In a way, it makes sense - w/o the high-end options, you are basically leaving money on the table that would otherwise be obtained from the folks with mo' money - namely the k lees out there. You just have to make sure that no custom coding is required to use the high-end features.
Plus, I gotta figure they want to do something with Media Center functionality. Not sure about DVR - after all, I don't think you want it recording a TV show while you are playing a CPU taxing game - but it could have the other features.
Especially, if they can get some synergy from xbox live and the online services in Media Center like Napster, MovieLink, etc.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/mediacenter/partners/software.mspx
In terms of games, it shouldn't be an issue. After all, you can run apps on xp home or pro and Nintendo did the same thing with GBA and GBA SP. Sony does it with all of their other hardware products.
In a way, it makes sense - w/o the high-end options, you are basically leaving money on the table that would otherwise be obtained from the folks with mo' money - namely the k lees out there. You just have to make sure that no custom coding is required to use the high-end features.
Plus, I gotta figure they want to do something with Media Center functionality. Not sure about DVR - after all, I don't think you want it recording a TV show while you are playing a CPU taxing game - but it could have the other features.
Especially, if they can get some synergy from xbox live and the online services in Media Center like Napster, MovieLink, etc.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/mediacenter/partners/software.mspx
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Yeah....its looking that way for sure...
Richard from Panasonic has gone on record (and I think he announced this @ CES too) that the BRD format will use AACS for the copy protection layer and he thinks HD-DVD will also use AACS...
That depends on how you define the world "finalized"
The BD-ROM physical spec v1.0 was completed late september 2004, and v1.1 was just completed last month...
The BD-ROM application spec is scheduled for 0.9 completion by April -- it has been delayed slightly for the audio & video codec work. Depending on the complexity of the application layer, verification of the spec (the work required to move the spec from 0.9 to 1.0) might occupy the rest of 2005.
All this is according to Richard Doherty from Panasonic Hollywood Labs