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[Nirolak]

Probably not especially shocking. This was part of an interview about why they wanted to be bought by Sega.

Amplitude was a studio created out of necessity.

Ubisoft producers Romain de Waubert de Genlis and Mathieu Girard were big fans of 4X strategy games, a genre headlined by the massively successful Civilization series. They were both eager to make one, but Ubisoft wasn't interested, in fact nobody was. 4X games, they were told, are just not worth the investment.

So the duo set up on their own in Paris, and created the Endless series, which has already clocked up more than 2.7m sales across three games.

"When we created Amplitude nobody really cared about 4X," de Genlis recalls. "We tried to get people interested, but nobody was, and we ended up having to ask all our friends to pitch in some money to create Amplitude. At the time, people believed only Civilization could sell in the 4X genre, and that only really hardcore people were interested in these games.

Its first title, Endless Space (2012), went on to sell 1.1m units on Steam. Its successor was Endless Legend in 2014, which has just topped 1m sales, while the spin-off game Dungeon of the Endless even managed 600,000 copies.

It was enough to attract the attention of some big name suitors, including Sega, which after almost a year of talks, bought the business in July.

Working with Sega can also help Amplitude reach its personal goals of competing more aggressively with the big names in the strategy sphere, says de Genlis. The firm is currently 60 people strong, and the aim is to increase that number to 100 over the next three or four years.

Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...e-threw-away-its-independence-and-joined-sega

 

[Xater]

Publishers say the darndest things.

For real how can anyone think an entire genre audience can be satisfied with one game series that comes out like every 5 years? Seems preposterous to me. Same for CRPGs which has also already been proven wrong.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I liked endless space. If 1mil sales is not selling, I guess they hope to continue to not sell.

Publishers say the darndest things.

For real how can anyone think an entire genre audience can be satisfied with one game series that comes out like every 5 years? Seems preposterous to me. Same for CRPGs which has also already been proven wrong.

I think it's a bit misleading to say Civ comes out every 5 years, considering all the expansions that come with each. And then between the numbered entries and expansions there is revolution 1 + 2 and spin offs like beyond earth and starships.

So between Civ 5's 2010 release and Civ 6's 2016, we've had 2 expansions, a spin off and expansion, and a smaller entry (starships) plus a mobile game (revolution 2).

 

[Ryuukan]

Ive played civ since the original and today I learned what "4X" means

 

[Dingens]

this is like back in 2006, when publishers just assumed pretty much overnight that nobody wants to play jrpgs anymore

sometimes publishers can be just as stupid as investors... or maybe it's due to stupid investors?

 

[Omega Kirby]

How well did Stellaris sell?

 

[Xater]

I think it's a bit misleading to say Civ comes out every 5 years, considering all the expansions that come with each. And then between the numbered entries and expansions there is revolution 1 + 2 and spin offs like beyond earth and starships.

So between Civ 5's 2010 release and Civ 6's 2016, we've had 2 expansions, a spin off and expansion, and a smaller entry (starships) plus a mobile game (revolution 2).

Not everyone buys the expansions, not everyone just wants their 4X to be about the progress of human Civilization. There is plenty of room there and it has been proven.

How well did Stellaris sell?

Pretty sure it's the best selling Paradox title yet. It's already at over half a million and will only grow further.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

this is like back in 2006, when publishers just assumed pretty much overnight that nobody wants to play jrpgs anymore

sometimes publishers can be just as stupid as investors... or maybe it's due to stupid investors?

Gen 7 is a hell of a drug and that needle got passed around very thoroughly.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Also you don't need 50mil to make a 4x game. 1 mil of sales on a game that can be made with a small team might be more profitable than a big budget game.

 

[Totakeke]

Even with Amplitude under Sega it's pretty difficult to find coverage of their games when they're shown on the floor and shown on game expos.

 

[Nirolak]

How well did Stellaris sell?

642,391 ± 20,634 on Steamspy so far. It seems the lowest sale price so far was $29.99 (it's normally $39.99).

 

[whalleywhat]

Even with Amplitude under Sega it's pretty difficult to find coverage of their games when they're shown on the floor and shown on game expos.

Media coverage for 4x will likely remain a difficult proposition. I watched a sit down IGN did with Amplitude devs for ES2 where the guy clearly had no idea what was going on and was disinterested. Even in the RPS debate on Civ VI, Pip, who was new to the series/genre, couldn't really come to terms with the prospect that her first 10 hour experience with the game looked exceedingly likely to end in a loss.

 

[Nirolak]

Even with Amplitude under Sega it's pretty difficult to find coverage of their games when they're shown on the floor and shown on game expos.

Most of Amplitude's coverage is through YouTubers and Streamers since the traditional media really doesn't care.

Like Angry Joe and Bazar are the types of people Sega went after to cover it.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Not everyone buys the expansions, not everyone just wants their 4X to be about the progress of human Civilization. There is plenty of room there and it has been proven.

Yeah... you didn't read my post did you. I'm not denying that, I am denying your statement about civ only being released every 5 years.

 

[patapuf]

Media coverage for 4x will likely remain a difficult proposition. I watched a sit down IGN did with Amplitude devs for ES2 where the guy clearly had no idea what was going on and was disinterested. Even in the RPS debate on Civ VI, Pip, who was new to the series/genre, couldn't really come to terms with the prospect that her first 10 hour experience with the game looked exceedingly likely to end in a loss.

Strategy is a genre i feel has few fans among the traditional media. It certainly seems it's one of the most common to have the "dedicated reviewer" who plays all strategy games. Even for big games like CiV

 

[Grief.exe]

How well did Stellaris sell?

Pretty sure it's the best selling Paradox title yet. It's already at over half a million and will only grow further.

642,391 ± 20,634 on Steamspy so far. It seems the lowest sale price so far was $29.99 (it's normally $39.99).

Yes, the fastest selling game in their history

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/stellaris-day-one-sales-set-new-record-paradox-more-200k-sold-533206

 

[Karak]

Was working with some devs last year on a 4x and doing some alpha stuff and what I saw had some ideas that truly would have been at least semi revolutionary. Couldn't find a pub to save their lives. And yes indeed one of the reasons was that "4x games don't stream very well or keep people interested"
It is not about the primary gamer anymore. Its about both them and the peripheral gamer and 4x have an issue in that regard. Or at least some people think they do.

 

[QFNS]

Really suprised that people would ignore any audience that is clearly so in love with a genre. It seems obvious that if so many people love Civ then they could be enticed to play similar games. Civ started me on the 4X road, but I love the Paradox strategy games even if I don't play all of them (I will get Stellaris one of these days when Civ 6 releases its grip on me). I am interested in games that are like other games which I enjoy! Go figure!

CRPGs are in the same boat it seems. People forgot that there is an audience for that style of game. Even if that audience isn't as big as the mainstream audiences or one for stuff like Dota or FPSs like Overwatch, it's definitely there. I love the recent trend of focusing in on the niche communities. Really lets us diversify the games out there for all sorts of players.

 

[Xater]

Yeah... you didn't read my post did you. I'm not denying that, I am denying your statement about civ only being released every 5 years.

Yeah and I was talking about mainline Civ releases. Everything else doesn't matter. especially not shit like Starships which is nothing like Civ.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Yeah and I was talking about mainline Civ releases. Everything else doesn't matter. especially not shit like Starships which is nothing like Civ.

I know you were talking about numbered civ releases, which is why I said it was misleading.

 

[chrominance]

Didn't Sins of a Solar Empire sell really well? I mean, I know it's not strictly 4X, and it probably wouldn't sell AAA-game numbers, but I thought it put up pretty good numbers?

 

[CloudWolf]

Even with Amplitude under Sega it's pretty difficult to find coverage of their games when they're shown on the floor and shown on game expos.

Yeah, it's a real shame since I like the Endless games more than Civ. Age of Wonders 3 is also a really good game that got almost no publicity because it's "not Civ".

 

[Ladekabel]

Yeah, it's a real shame since I like the Endless games more than Civ. Age of Wonders 3 is also a really good game that got almost no publicity because it's "not Civ".

Going a little bit Off-Topic but since Age of Wonders 3 is currently on sale on Steam: How is the game for a noob in the genre? I like Civ V but I always played it casually to relax and never had the difficulty higher than the third lowest or so. Should I try Age of Wonders 3 since I'm currently looking for a cheap game in the genre I could play casually?

 

[Decado]

Going a little bit Off-Topic but since Age of Wonders 3 is currently on sale on Steam: How is the game for a noob in the genre? I like Civ V but I always played it casually to relax and never had the difficulty higher than the third lowest or so. Should I try Age of Wonders 3 since I'm currently looking for a cheap game in the genre I could play casually?

Yes. Note that it it places much more emphasis on tactical combat (best in this subgenre). You may find that the strategy layer is relatively simple.

 

[5taquitos]

It probably wouldn't have turned out nearly as well if they had made it under Ubisoft's watchful eye anyway, so I'm glad things worked out the way they did.

 

[Aureon]

Endless had the good sense of having a aesthetically pleasing UI, and not putting simulation before gameplay.
It's not that 4x \ simulation hasn't a market, but there's definitely a very small niche willing to put up with obscure UIs, and the two things usually go together.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

From my experience (EA in particular), this sort of stuff happens because big companies/publishers arent interested in you pitching them a game that will sell a million, theyre interested in games that they think can sell 5 to 10 million.

Its really dumb, but thats how they look. They only care about big time successes, and in their mind 500k to 1 million sellers are not it.

However. Once they see a company that has made a new IP and has attained these numbers, they see opportunity, theyll think and say shit like "we can take your 1 million sales and turn it into 5 million" They would much rather magnify something that exists instead of taking a risk with something new.

 

[Ladekabel]

Yes. Note that it it places much more emphasis on tactical combat (best in this subgenre). You may find that the strategy layer is relatively simple.

Thanks for the input. I think I will buy and try it and refund it if it doesn't click with me.

 

[RainForce]

The disconnect between publishers and consumers will always be interesting to me. So many "what could have been" scenarios.

 

[BronzeWolf]

The disconnect between publishers and consumers will always be interesting to me. So many "what could have been" scenarios.

TBF They also push for games with great success, don't take only negative evidence into account. Some seem very risk averse though

 

[jblank83]

From my experience (EA in particular), this sort of stuff happens because big companies/publishers arent interested in you pitching them a game that will sell a million, theyre interested in games that they think can sell 5 to 10 million.

Beyond that, they're not interested in games that are difficult to make, have a lot of post-launch maintenance (without post-launch sales), or any sort of risky complicated game design.

Cheap, easy, low risk

 

[Lister]

Beyond that, they're not interested in games that are difficult to make, have a lot of post-launch maintenance (without post-launch sales), or any sort of risky complicated game design.

Cheap, easy, low risk

True.. but I also think they ar emissing the makr there as well.

Endless space did not take a Titan Fall 1 budget to make. You can invest in several, much smaller projects, and if even a few of them hit, like say Endless Space or a Pillars of Eternity, you're making money, moreover, you might end up with the next big franchise. What developer wouldn't have been thrilled to have been on the ground floor of somehting like say Minecraft?

Instead of having something like a Titan Fall 1 fail miserably and possibly be out on milions and millions of dollars, you can get more people interested in your games by widening your audience - not just by appealing to the Mountian Dew crowd, but to several smaller, but much more hardcore communities.

 

[Faustek]

Well Ubisoft saw what happened with Settlers and decided that was that instead of realising that they did it wrong.

 

[ghostjoke]

With the complicated interacting systems and post-launch care required for succesful 4X, I'm quite okay with large publishers having no interest in them. EA eating up RTS/Sim/RPG devlopers was one of gaming's great tragedies.

Part of me is curious of how Ubi would try to apply their formula to 4X games.

 

[Nirolak]

Beyond that, they're not interested in games that are difficult to make, have a lot of post-launch maintenance (without post-launch sales), or any sort of risky complicated game design.

Cheap, easy, low risk

This genre is basically all in on post launch sales (both of the base product and DLC) and they were able to make these million selling titles on a handful of cash.

Given the types of smaller projects big publishers push these days, it's actually a pretty good fit business model wise.

I'm also not surprised that EA and Ubisoft weren't interested, but that the smaller publishers weren't.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

It basically feels like market reading is decided by the stupid logic in conversations about who's favorite things are the best, where "people don't care about [x]" or "[x] doesn't sell" is confused for a valid argument.

 

[Renekton]

The disconnect between publishers and consumers will always be interesting to me. So many "what could have been" scenarios.

The disconnect between gamers and own demographic is more interesting.

We gamers are even more clueless about what gamers want compared to publishers with data, and we project demographic assumptions based on personal tastes.

 

[StrategyFan]

this would have been 5+ years ago
inability to sell at retail (what publishers thought their job was) isn't the same as inability to sell


that said, I don't think anyone has found the right publishing model for 4X games

throwing these in the same pool as every other game for $40-$60 isn't really what I'd like to see. the games end up being pretty awful because the experience has to be tuned for people who don't even have enough time to learn how the game is supposed to be played

they basically need to have revenue sources similar to those microtransaction-based games where the casual drive-bys can have fun for almost nothing while the serious players can spend more
but it can't actually be done with microtransactions because nobody's going to go for those, so i have no clue what they're actually supposed to do

 

[Man God]

I think publishers are pretty much right in this case. None of the MoO clones did anything close to Civ numbers.

 

[Affeinvasion]

this would have been 5+ years ago
inability to sell at retail (what publishers thought their job was) isn't the same as inability to sell


that said, I don't think anyone has found the right publishing model for 4X games

throwing these in the same pool as every other game for $40-$60 isn't really what I'd like to see. the games end up being pretty awful because the experience has to be tuned for people who don't even have enough time to learn how the game is supposed to be played

they basically need to have revenue sources similar to those microtransaction-based games where the casual drive-bys can have fun for almost nothing while the serious players can spend more
but it can't actually be done with microtransactions because nobody's going to go for those, so i have no clue what they're actually supposed to do

What paradox does is probably the right way. Release the standard edition, get people hooked, release expansions and provide support for years.