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Analyst picks winners at E3

SantaC

Member
The Yankee Group's Mike Goodman talks candidly about what worked at E3, and what didn't.

LOS ANGELES--With E3 winding down, everyone that matters in the industry has been privy to guided tours, behind-closed-doors presentations of next generation games, and generally been given a lot more perspective on the business than your average gamer.

GameSpot had a chance to sit down Thursday night with Yankee Group senior analyst Mike Goodman and get his blunt take on the industry as a whole, the unveilings (or lack thereof) of the next generation of consoles, and just who walks out of this week's expo having gained the most ground since Monday.

"They're all going to say they won," Goodman said of the companies on the show floor, "but I think in general, publishers are going to win here."

"There's a lot of smoke and fire about the (new) hardware and that will probably be the leading stories for the most part, but realistically, in my mind it's a lot of hype. The hardware counts right up until the day the product launches into the market, then it's all about the software. And I think those publishers that at least showed some of their next generation titles, they're the furthest ahead. EA with Need for Speed, Activision...those titles showed really well and showed real potential."

Back to the hardware, Goodman had the most positive things to say about Microsoft's position with the Xbox 360 launch.

"I think it's extremely important that Microsoft is launching first and has the holiday season to itself for several reasons," Goodman said, "not the least of which is they get to set the market in terms of pricing."

Goodman said he would be shocked if the Xbox 360 was released for anything other than $299, and explained the strategic advantage this would give Microsoft over Sony's PS3, the pricy components of which could demand a $500 retail tag.

"If Microsoft sets (the Xbox 360 price) at $299 like I expect them to, that puts an awful lot of pressure on Sony in terms of how they price their console," Goodman said. "Remember, by the time Sony comes out, at least by its first holiday season, Microsoft will have been out for about a year. It would not be entirely unexpected if they really wanted to put the squeeze on Sony to drop their price to $249."

Goodman expects a $399 asking price for the PS3, but said that still could lead to a "nightmare scenario" for Sony.

"Let's say they launch in August (2006), and let's say they come in at $399," Goodman begins. "Microsoft turns around in September, drops the price to $249 and launches Halo 3. Now that's a nice little double whammy. You've got $150 gap between the two and you've got Halo 3 coming out and you've got probably close to 100 titles in your library at that point and a couple of good solid franchises to help build...If you're Sony, it's a very difficult decision and there are market forces out there that come into play as well, 'market forces' being Microsoft in this instance."

In the meantime, Goodman expects Microsoft to have a very successful rollout by virtue of having the biggest and baddest system on the block around Christmas.

"For this holiday season, whatever Sony or Nintendo want to say, it's going to be 360 competing and comparing against the PS2 and the GameCube, and it's going to show better every single time. And retailers will want to highlight it because it's going to help them sell HDTVs."

So should Sony and Nintendo have held off on unveiling their next systems in order to better promote and push their existing console products for the next year? Maybe not.

"It's a Catch-22, particularly for Nintendo and Sony," Goodman said. "On the one hand, because Microsoft did [unveil a new system], Sony can't cede the floor to Microsoft and just allow them to have carte blanche as the only next generation console this season. On the other hand, by making their announcement now, when the product isn't going to hit the marketplace for another 12-18 months, they do run the risk of diluting interest and diverting interest from their current offerings, which is all they're going to have this holiday season."

While Goodman said he expects whatever head start Microsoft gets in this console war to eventually be overcome by Sony, he was not so bullish on the fate of Nintendo in the coming years, going so far as to name the venerable publisher when asked who he considered to have lost the most ground during E3.

"Bottom line (for Nintendo) is, you're number three in the marketplace," Goodman said. "Your console is not offering all the capabilities of your competitors' consoles. You're relegated as being the kid's platform. There's just a series of missteps on behalf of Nintendo and I haven't seen anything in Revolution that corrects those missteps. Nothing. And being third to market just exacerbates the problem."

Not even the Game Boy Micro won points with Goodman.

"I first saw it and yeah, it was kinda cool," Goodman admits. "Then I got to look at it and it's hard to read the text on it. It's actually hard to use, at least for anybody over the age of 8. Your hands are too big. Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do something, and this is a product that fits into that category."

On less inflammatory topics, Goodman said he expected publishers to seek more ancillary revenue from advertising, and directly downloadable content (the extra content Microsoft wants to sell over Xbox Live with micropayments, for example) as next-generation hardware sends development costs skyrocketing.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/20/news_6126197.html


oh boy. I am surprised he didn't say anything positive about sony.
 
Goodman said he would be shocked if the Xbox 360 was released for anything other than $299, and explained the strategic advantage this would give Microsoft over Sony's PS3, the pricy components of which could demand a $500 retail tag.
Sigh. People were saying this about the PS2 as well. It's not going to happen. Sony knows damn well that that's way too expensive for a console.
 
human5892 said:
Sigh. People were saying this about the PS2 as well. It's not going to happen. Sony knows damn well that that's way too expensive for a console.

Don't forget that the PSP will lauch for $400. Analysts are idiots. Both systems will lauch at $300.
 
human5892 said:
Sigh. People were saying this about the PS2 as well. It's not going to happen. Sony knows damn well that that's way too expensive for a console.

and $249 is way to expensive for a handheld, really.

but they did.
 
bitwise said:
and $249 is way to expensive for a handheld, really.

but they did.

But its far less then the expect 399.99 price point
 
What the hell is with everybody assuming Nintendo's machine is underpowered? I thought everybody was upset because they didn't reveal anything. A few vague words from execs and PR people and Nintendo is already the weakest? =/
 
bitwise said:
and $249 is way to expensive for a handheld, really.

but they did.
Not really...Sony considers the PSP to be in the same market as the likes of an iPod or some other portable media device, not a Game Boy. In that context, its price is completely reasonable, and I think the strong PSP sales demonstrate that.

=W= said:
What the hell is with everybody assuming Nintendo's machine is underpowered? I thought everybody was upset because they didn't reveal anything. A few vague words from execs and PR people and Nintendo is already the weakest? =/
With Iwata and co. consistently downplaying the role of power and technology in the next gen and Nintendo PR calling Revolution only "two or three times more powerful" than GameCube, can you really blame us? Why should anyone assume Nintendo won't have the weakest machine?
 
I think this guy overestimated Xbox 360 this holiday. I still dont see the system selling games that would make people take the $300 plunge for a system with no BC.
 
Well I definitley saw Sony as winner of this E3. However, the lack of big PSP annoucements disappointed me.
 
seismologist said:
I think this guy overestimated Xbox 360 this holiday. I still dont see the system selling games that would make people take the $300 plunge for a system with no BC.
I think the 360 will do just fine for itself. Early-adopters alone will ensure its success.

That said, I'd say a $99 PSTwo will likely outsell all other gaming hardware this holiday. Quite handily, as a matter of fact. A cheap GameCube/new Zelda combination might also have some punch.
 
Your console is not offering all the capabilities of your competitors' consoles. You're relegated as being the kid's platform. There's just a series of missteps on behalf of Nintendo and I haven't seen anything in Revolution that corrects those missteps. Nothing. And being third to market just exacerbates the problem."

What capabilities can the PS3 and Xbox 2 offer that Revolution can't?

I wish some of these guys knew anything about how games are created. They talk a lot when they should be learning.
 
seismologist said:
I think this guy overestimated Xbox 360 this holiday. I still dont see the system selling games that would make people take the $300 plunge for a system with no BC.
They canceled BC?
 
I think this guy overestimated Xbox 360 this holiday. I still dont see the system selling games that would make people take the $300 plunge for a system with no BC.

I think most people would be shocked if the Xbox 360 didnt sell out this holiday season. There is no reason to think it wont.
 
I agree with this analyst. Xbox 360 is going to be 360 degrees of awesomeness this holiday season all around the world and it's going to sell like nobody's business. Microsoft is going to put the screws to Sony and things will get very interesting.
 
SantaCruZer said:
he was talking about weaker specs, and how that is automaticly a kids console.

"Bottom line (for Nintendo) is, you're number three in the marketplace," Goodman said. "Your console is not offering all the capabilities of your competitors' consoles. You're relegated as being the kid's platform. There's just a series of missteps on behalf of Nintendo and I haven't seen anything in Revolution that corrects those missteps. Nothing. And being third to market just exacerbates the problem."

It sounds to me like he's just listing off the problems with them, hence series of missteps. Like:

1) Your console is offering everything
2) You'ree being relegated as a kid's system
3) Being third to launch
 
dorio said:
They canceled BC?

Nah they didn't. Well the BC is crap anyway. Re-release selected "big" titles from the Xbox generation for the 360 with some tweaking because of hardware issues.

Well I think that's the official story for now.
 
"What capabilities can the PS3 and Xbox 2 offer that Revolution can't? "

We don't know yet, since we know nothing about the revolution.
 
The Main Event said:
Nah they didn't. Well the BC is crap anyway. Re-release selected "big" titles from the Xbox generation for the 360 with some tweaking because of hardware issues.

Well I think that's the official story for now.

It's obvious that you don't know shit about the official story...
 
TheDuce22 said:
Do you actually believe this or are you just trolling?

Current-gen Xbox games to be "recompiled" for Xbox 360

Following earlier indications that the Xbox 360 will only be backwards compatible with some Xbox games, Microsoft has admitted that existing software will need to be recompiled before it can be run on the new console.

The problem, it says, is down to hardware incompatibility - since the current Xbox uses an Intel processor, but the 360 will use IBM's PowerPC architecture, while NVIDIA's graphics solution is being replaced with an ATI one.

As many commentators have pointed out over the last few months, this means backwards compatibility problems. The solution Microsoft has reached is apparently to recompiled current-gen Xbox games so that they can be played on the 360. First on the list, it says, are the best-selling Halo titles.

The news has raised more questions than it answers, however, as it suggests that gamers may need to purchase titles they already own in order to play them on an Xbox 360 - and almost certainly means that only a sub-set of Xbox games will ever be playable on the new console.

Sony and Nintendo have already confirmed that their next-gen consoles - the PS3 and Revolution - will play all the games in their respective back catalogues, offering consumers a huge choice of titles at launch. Microsoft was unavailable for comment at the time of writing.

I can't find the link for that article though, but someone else posted it in another thread. Does someone else have it?
 
Hollywood said:
"Bottom line (for Nintendo) is, you're number three in the marketplace," Goodman said. "Your console is not offering all the capabilities of your competitors' consoles. You're relegated as being the kid's platform. There's just a series of missteps on behalf of Nintendo and I haven't seen anything in Revolution that corrects those missteps. Nothing. And being third to market just exacerbates the problem."

It sounds to me like he's just listing off the problems with them, hence series of missteps. Like:

1) Your console is offering everything
2) You'ree being relegated as a kid's system
3) Being third to launch

ah ok, sorry.
 
You know, I think Microsoft may have indeed "won" at E3. They dropped the ball heavily in their press conference whereas Sony dazzled everyone. But then the new game announcements started happening, people got to play games on the showfloor, and everything really started shifting Microsoft's way. After all, Sony didn't really have much left to show after the conference. And Nintendo.. so anyway, yeah, I can see how some people might come away with a higher opinion of Microsoft's performance, all things considered.
 
PhatSaqs said:
You should make an official thread Main Event. That is HUGE news :D

I think it has been mentioned in a couple of threads already so I won't flood the forum with "another bad move for Microsoft" topics. :)
 
Odysseus said:
You know, I think Microsoft may have indeed "won" at E3. They dropped the ball heavily in their press conference whereas Sony dazzled everyone. But then the new game announcements started happening, people got to play games on the showfloor, and everything really started shifting Microsoft's way. After all, Sony didn't really have much left to show after the conference. And Nintendo.. so anyway, yeah, I can see how some people might come away with a higher opinion of Microsoft's performance, all things considered.

Sounds a lot like E3 2000 when Sony and Konami blew Sega away with just one trailer.
 
The Main Event said:
I can't find the link for that article though, but someone else posted it in another thread. Does someone else have it?

like I said...

Ok, let’s stop this right now. There is some serious wrong information floating around, so I need to clear this up. I grabbed my favorite PR dudes, and they are saying what I was telling a few of you in email:

“We’re not sure where this came from, and it's incorrect. At launch, Xbox 360 will be backward compatible with the top Xbox games. Our goal is to have every Xbox game work on Xbox 360. You will NOT need to purchase a new ‘version’ — your original games will work on Xbox 360.”

Case closed.
 
The analyst makes some very good points about the PS3 price point and pressures SONY will be facing given the X360 headstart. There was Japanese article recently about the same thing referring to similiar $399 - $499 price point. Allard refers to SONYs strategy as "interesting". I'm amused at the posts of a guarenteed $299 price point. SONY is playing the hype card to it's massive userbase to wait for the PS3 on the hope that it will be bought and accepted at a premium price. I hope for them that X360 games will fail to impress, 1080P means something, Blue Ray is the defacto standard, the PS3 is significantly more powerful than the X360 and Killzone 2 launches and looks like it was "represented" all by the time the PS3 lauches. One can make an educated determination that none of the conditions SONY is hoping for will happen. I would like to see this forum start addressing these concerns instead of the typical SONY worship fanboy orgasmic helpings that I've read here lately completely overstating anything good SONY and overstating anything bad MS.
 
mashoutposse said:
Sounds a lot like E3 2000 when Sony and Konami blew Sega away with just one trailer.
Except that Sega didn't have a next gen Madden to counter with.
I think it has been mentioned in a couple of threads already so I won't flood the forum with "another bad move for Microsoft" topics.
No, people need to know that crucial fact that you will have to repurchase your games for backwards compatibility. :D
 
Sony could probably launch as high as $349 without suffering a backlash.

I think they should again manufacture not enough units to satisfy demand -- the PSP situation has proven that shortages have a profoundly positive effect on the brand-building process. Shortages can turn a $300+ device into an impulse buy, as it did with PS2. It also positions the machine as a 'premium' product that can be priced higher than its competitors with little to no effect on sales. The "It's going for $XXX on eBay!" factor will play a major part here.

Having too many units available kills hype -- no more than 600k should be available on Day One in the US.
 
Goodman said he would be shocked if the Xbox 360 was released for anything other than $299, and explained the strategic advantage this would give Microsoft over Sony's PS3, the pricy components of which could demand a $500 retail tag.

Oh for cryin out loud.

How many times are we going to hear this shit?

How many times did we hear this shit prior to the PS2 launch?

Why do the others always get a free pass on this?
 
How many times are we going to hear this shit?

How many times did we hear this shit prior to the PS2 launch?

Why do the others always get a free pass on this?

Sony spends so much time hyping up the hadware people just assume it will be expensive.
 
Oh god. This shit again? :lol

PS3 will be $299 ($349 at most).

It amazes me how anyone could think otherwise (this goes for the speculation of PSP being $400 and PS2 costing $500). Sony actually wants these things to sell and that's not going to happen if it cost $200 more than its competitors.
 
Insertia said:
Oh god. This shit again? :lol

PS3 will be $299 ($349 at most).

It amazes me how anyone could think otherwise (this goes for the speculation of PSP being $400 and PS2 costing $500). Sony actually wants these things to sell and that's not going to happen if it cost $200 more than its competitors.

I think analysts are high balling the Sony figures because of the earnings reports. Sony really can't afford to lose a lot of money... and the PS3 is hardly nimble. That beast is big and has a shit load of ports on it. To me, I would think that MS certainly has the manufacturing price advantage this time around.
 
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