Support NeoGAF

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/30/blogger-hacked-death-bangladesh-dhaka?CMP=share_btn_tw

A blogger known for his atheist views has been stabbed to death in Bangladesh, in the latest of a series of attacks on independent writers in the developing south Asian nation.

Washiqur Rahman, 27, died of serious injuries inflicted in the assault on Monday morning in Dhaka, the capital.

Police have arrested two men for the murder, which comes just weeks after an American atheist blogger was killed in Dhaka, in a crime that triggered international outrage.

Local police chief Wahidul Islam told Agence France-Presse the victim had been “brutally hacked to death this morning with big knives just 500 yards [460 metres] from his home at Dhaka’s Begunbari area”.

Islam said the two detained men were arrested immediately after the attack as they tried to flee the scene.

The suspects have so far been identified only as Zikrullah, said to be a student at a religious school near the city of Chittagong, and Ariful Islam, who police say was studying at the Darul Ulum religious school in Dhaka. Police are hunting a third man.

“Those who killed him differed on his ideologies about religion. He was not an atheist. He was a believer. But the way he followed religion was different from the way radical groups insist,” Biplob Kumar Sarkar, deputy commissioner of the Dhaka Metropolitan police, told the Guardian.

However, Tamanna Setu, a friend of Rahman said: “He used to write a satirical column on facebook about against believers. He was an atheist. His killing has to be connected to his writing,”

One social media activist said that he used to write “against religious fundamentalism”.

“It appeared Rahman used to write using a pen name, Kutshit Hasher Chhana [Ugly Duckling],” Imran Sarker, head of the Blogger and Online Activists Network in Bangladesh, said. “He was a progressive free thinker and was against religious fundamentalism.”

Ibrahim Khalil, a fellow blogger who knew Rahman through events they organised, said Rahman was a “progressive” who wrote against religious extremism and repression of ethnic minorities.

“I can say he was a very humble man,” Khalil said.

The Dhaka Tribune reported that the dead man was a member of eight Facebook group pages including Atheist Bangladesh.

Rahman, who worked at a travel agency as an IT manager, is the third such blogger to have been murdered in the Muslim-majority country in the past two years.

Police have also arrested a suspect over the killing in February of American atheist writer and blogger Avijit Roy.

What a joy the world can be.

 

[Kurdel]

Horrible, what a twisted world.

 

[Chairman Yang]

I feel like it's only a matter of time until Bangladesh ends up like Pakistan.

 

[SniperHunter]

I feel like it's only a matter of time until Bangladesh ends up like Pakistan.

pretty much. All these Islamic countries eventually become shit. There's no room for Atheists or religious minorities in there. Its their way or death...

 

[Anon67]

Not exactly anti-religion. Thread title is misleading, probably on purpose.
"Those who killed him differed on his ideologies about religion. He was not an atheist. He was a believer."

Nevertheless, this is awful. Shit like this shouldn't be allowed at all.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Atheism is not anti-religion.

But yeah fuck Religious Fanatics.

 

[DiscoShark]

pretty much. All these Islamic countries eventually become shit. There's no room for Atheists or religious minorities in there. Its their way or death...

Totally man. I mean look at Turkey with its functioning democracy, self declared status as a "secular country" with no official religion, and 90% of their population identifying as Muslim. Totally on the brink of destruction.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Not exactly anti-religion. Thread title is misleading, probably on purpose.
"Those who killed him differed on his ideologies about religion. He was not an atheist. He was a believer."

Nevertheless, this is awful. Shit like this shouldn't be allowed at all.

The entire reason I didn't put "atheist" in the title was because of that line, but it says pretty clearly that he argued against religion in his blogging.

 

[Crayons]

Totally man. I mean look at Turkey with its functioning democracy, self declared status as a "secular country" with no official religion, and 90% of their population identifying as Muslim. Totally on the brink of destruction.

to be fair that's like the one exception to the rule

Not that I agree with that post that all Islamic countries go straight to shit, but religious fundamentalism + poverty usually doesn't go all that well together

 

[Chairman Yang]

Totally man. I mean look at Turkey with its functioning democracy, self declared status as a "secular country" with no official religion, and 90% of their population identifying as Muslim. Totally on the brink of destruction.

After being held up for decades as the biggest success story in the Islamic world (and one that occurred because Ataturk suppressed Islam by force in an attempt to modernize Turkey), Turkey's turning increasingly Islamist. It's one of the worst examples you could have picked for your argument.

 

[Anon67]

The entire reason I didn't put "atheist" in the title was because of that line, but it says pretty clearly that he argued against religion in his blogging.

Fair enough.

 

[joedan]

Looks like they killed another. Publisher of secuar literature this time.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/31/faisal-abedin-deepan-bangladesh-secular-publisher-hacked-to-death

 

[corduroygt]

But Islam is not the problem guys......
Sickening...any country where muslims are a majority, the non muslims are not safe or free.
Why do liberals treat islam like it's a protected class, I don't understand. Especially when it advocates anti-gay, anti-women ideals and fosters an us vs. them mentality between muslims and non-muslims. If any other group of people did this, they'd be branded right wing nutjob racists. But muslims get a free pass

This is exactly how I feel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvvQJ_zsL1U

 

[Stereogatari]

But Islam is not the problem guys......
Sickening...any country where muslims are a majority, the non muslims are not safe or free.
Why do liberals treat islam like it's a protected class, I don't understand. Especially when it advocates anti-gay, anti-women ideals and fosters an us vs. them mentality between muslims and non-muslims. If any other group of people did this, they'd be branded right wing nutjob racists. But muslims get a free pass

This is exactly how I feel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvvQJ_zsL1U

Most countries where Muslims are the majority. Not every country where Muslims are the majority.

 

[Nephtis]

But Islam is not the problem guys......
Sickening...any country where muslims are a majority, the non muslims are not safe or free.
Why do liberals treat islam like it's a protected class, I don't understand. Especially when it advocates anti-gay, anti-women ideals and fosters an us vs. them mentality between muslims and non-muslims. If any other group of people did this, they'd be branded right wing nutjob racists. But muslims get a free pass

This is exactly how I feel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvvQJ_zsL1U

Islam isn't the problem though. Crazy people who will go to the extremes exist no matter what religion (or lack thereof) they practice will always be around. There's plenty of Christians who are exactly as you describe: anti-gay, anti-women ideals and us vs them mentality. You see plenty of it in the US. Here's a surprise for ya too: it's not just Christians and Muslims - it's also Atheists, and a lot of other people.

The issues you talk about -- not being safe of free -- it's more of an issue of culture and where the country is. Sure, (radicalized or hardcore traditional) Muslims are at the helm, and Muslims themselves can't wait to leave because of how much of a shithole those places have become. Religion has very little to do with it (look at N. Korea, Venezuela, etc). Religion is an excuse these clearly insane and twisted people use to subjugate others.

 

[Poltergust]

But Islam is not the problem guys......
Sickening...any country where muslims are a majority, the non muslims are not safe or free.
Why do liberals treat islam like it's a protected class, I don't understand. Especially when it advocates anti-gay, anti-women ideals and fosters an us vs. them mentality between muslims and non-muslims. If any other group of people did this, they'd be branded right wing nutjob racists. But muslims get a free pass

This is exactly how I feel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvvQJ_zsL1U

Because it's bad to generalize an enormous group of people like that?

The vast majority of Muslims are not perpetrating these crimes. Besides, there's plenty of criticism for other religions as well. Religion is mostly used as an excuse, not a cause, to commit these kinds of heinous acts.

 

[Stereogatari]

Islam isn't the problem though. Crazy people who will go to the extremes exist no matter what religion (or lack thereof) they practice will always be around. There's plenty of Christians who are exactly as you describe: anti-gay, anti-women ideals and us vs them mentality. You see plenty of it in the US. Here's a surprise for ya too: it's not just Christians and Muslims - it's also Atheists, and a lot of other people.

The issues you talk about -- not being safe of free -- it's more of an issue of culture and where the country is. Sure, (radicalized or hardcore traditional) Muslims are at the helm, and Muslims themselves can't wait to leave because of how much of a shithole those places have become. Religion has very little to do with it (look at N. Korea, Venezuela, etc). Religion is an excuse these clearly insane and twisted people use to subjugate others.

It's the politics of Muslim majority countries that is problematic. Christian parties and politics exist in the West but they don't take Christianity as seriously as their Muslim equivelants take Islam. Why? Money and Science.

 

[Nephtis]

It's the politics of Muslim majority countries that is problematic. Christian parties and politics exist in the West but they don't take Christianity as seriously as their Muslim equivelants take Islam. Why? Money and Science.

It's how it is now, but every religion has had their fair share of barbarism. The Crusades weren't that long ago historically speaking.

 

[corduroygt]

Because it's bad to generalize an enormous group of people like that?

Not generalizing a group of people but the belief itself. Islam is based upon a book that calls for persecuting gays and non muslims, women being inferior to men, advocating amputations for thieves, etc. Now you're going to say the Old testament is similar, which is true, but Christianity doesn't see the OT as the literal unchanged word of god that has to be obeyed at all costs. There is no such thing in Islam, the Quran is the infallible word of god and it orders violence and persecution.

It is a very dangerous book as we see another live lost to it. I honestly don't see much difference between it and Mein Kampf. Both preach hate and violence towards some groups even the same groups (Jews), but while Mein Kampf is universally seen as horrible, Quran gets a pass. All horrible ideologies should be criticized.

 

[MisterFalcon]

The vast majority of Muslims are not perpetrating these crimes.

Things would look pretty grim for all non-Muslims if they did. Should I wait with criticism of the religion as a whole until 51% of them start killing unbelievers ?

 

[Stereogatari]

Not generalizing a group of people but the belief itself. Islam is based upon a book that calls for persecuting gays and non muslims, women being inferior to men, advocating amputations for thieves, etc. Now you're going to say the Old testament is similar, which is true, but Christianity doesn't see the OT as the literal unchanged word of god that has to be obeyed at all costs. There is no such thing in Islam, the Quran is the infallible word of god and it orders violence and persecution.

It is a very dangerous book as we see another live lost to it. I honestly don't see much difference between it and Mein Kampf. Both preach hate and violence towards some groups even the same groups (Jews), but while Mein Kampf is universally seen as horrible, Quran gets a pass. All horrible ideologies should be criticized.

Exactly. The doctrine itself is what leads to asshat interpretations like ISIS. The majority of Muslims don't let the text and commandments get in the way of their humanity.

 

[corduroygt]

Exactly. The doctrine itself is what leads to asshat interpretations like ISIS. The majority of Muslims don't let the text and commandments get in the way of their humanity.

Majority of Muslims don't read the Quran (or just memorize the Arabic text without knowing its meaning) and see their religion as whatever the beliefs of their family and surroundings + fasting, not eating pork, etc. These people are not the problem.
If they read the Quran they'd either abandon it or be more conservative, ISIS-like.

 

[Kabouter]

It's how it is now, but every religion has had their fair share of barbarism. The Crusades weren't that long ago historically speaking.

I think if you want to equate two religions in terms of their violence, it's probably best to use something more recent than the Crusades. Historically speaking, the 15th century is not recent. You're thinking of geology.

 

[Always-honest]

It's how it is now, but every religion has had their fair share of barbarism. The Crusades weren't that long ago historically speaking.

Indeed, my grandma used to tell stories about her grandma's grandma, who heard stories of her grandma, who read a history book in her old days about some horrible barbaric crusade.

That's more than 500 years ago. That's twice the age of the United States.

 

[Stereogatari]

Majority of Muslims don't read the Quran (or just memorize the Arabic text without knowing its meaning) and see their religion as whatever the beliefs of their family and surroundings + fasting, not eating pork, etc. These people are not the problem.
If they read the Quran they'd either abandon it or be more conservative, ISIS-like.

That's exactly how I became Atheist. Read the Quran and within 1 chapter thought "God did not write this". Though my lifestyle is exactly the same, I wasn't religious anyway.

 

[Durante]

Totally man. I mean look at Turkey with its functioning democracy, self declared status as a "secular country" with no official religion, and 90% of their population identifying as Muslim. Totally on the brink of destruction.

For some increasingly broad definition of "functioning democracy".

 

[Condom]

It was not an anti religion blogger

 

[corduroygt]

Totally man. I mean look at Turkey with its functioning democracy, self declared status as a "secular country" with no official religion, and 90% of their population identifying as Muslim. Totally on the brink of destruction.

Yeah it's not like they killed a bunch of Atheists by burning them down in a hotel or something, right?

 

[Machina]

So they created an Atheist martyr. How counter productive. Well done.

 

[Condom]

So they created an Atheist martyr. How counter productive. Well done.

He was not atheist

 

[daniels]

I always find it strange when people say the horrible stuff done under the name of Islam supported by its many scriptures, supported by the behavior of its warlord prophet and perpetrated by its fundamentalists has nothing to do with Islam.
But the same people don't grant the same "lol nothing to do with anything lol" privilege to other religions, without skipping a beat the same people if you pressure a lil bit come always back to the same old "bu,bu BUT Christianity was just as Evil and don't forget the Crusades!!".
Yes Christianity had something to do with the problems in its past and yes Islam has something to do with its problems today.

 

[boiled goose]

But Islam is not the problem guys......
Sickening...any country where muslims are a majority, the non muslims are not safe or free.
Why do liberals treat islam like it's a protected class, I don't understand. Especially when it advocates anti-gay, anti-women ideals and fosters an us vs. them mentality between muslims and non-muslims. If any other group of people did this, they'd be branded right wing nutjob racists. But muslims get a free pass

Such horse shit.

Please tell me how Muslims are treated like a protected class?

If a jew commits a crime, do all jews deserve condemnation?
If a Christian commits a crime, do all Christians deserve condemnation?
If a black person commits a crime, do all black people deserve condemnation?
If a white person commits a crime, do all white people deserve condemnation?
If a male commits a crime,do all males deserve condemnation?

PLEASE RESPOND.

 

[corduroygt]

Such horse shit.
Please tell me how Muslims are treated like a protected class?

I wrote Islam is treated like a protected class, not muslims.

I am not condemning Muslims, just the teachings of Islam and the entire anti-gay anti-women, anti-freedom of speech violent culture. This is ingrained in the Quran and the Hadith. The bloggers would not be killed if Islam did not exist, the people who killed them were infected by these harmful, violent teachings that are a part of Islam, regardless of how the moderates argue that it's not violent and has to be interpreted in historical context, and all that bs. The teachings are the problem, not the people.

Islam should be called out just like any other harmful ideology (The US tea party situation, racism, anti-women, anti-gay agendas, and yes, stuff in the Old Testament and Christianity etc.) But it gets a free pass because it's classified as a religion. Speak against islam and you're called a racist, which is wrong, or islamophobe, which is a meaningless word

 

[Aureon]

Such horse shit.

Please tell me how Muslims are treated like a protected class?

If a jew commits a crime, do all jews deserve condemnation?
If a Christian commits a crime, do all Christians deserve condemnation?
If a black person commits a crime, do all black people deserve condemnation?
If a white person commits a crime, do all white people deserve condemnation?
If a male commits a crime,do all males deserve condemnation?

PLEASE RESPOND.

If they do it in name of blackness\maleness\christianity\whatever, and it's systematic, probably?

I mean, Islamic States should be condemned without reserves. Please note that Islamic State isn't the same thing as "state where islamic people live", however.

 

[boiled goose]

I wrote Islam is treated like a protected class, not muslims.

I am not condemning Muslims, just the teachings of Islam and the entire anti-gay anti-women, anti-freedom of speech violent culture. This is ingrained in the Quran and the Hadith. The bloggers would not be killed if Islam did not exist, the people who killed them were infected by these harmful, violent teachings that are a part of Islam, regardless of how the moderates argue that it's not violent and has to be interpreted in historical context, and all that bs. The teachings are the problem, not the people.

How is islam treated like a protected class. If class can even refer to a religion .

The bible has tons of anti gay, anti women, anti atheist passages too. Moderates asking for a more kind interpretation are full of bullshit too right?

We have moderates, liberals, and fundamentalists in all religions

As an atheist i hate having to defend religion against bad arguments.

Why are Christians not crusading now? Why are the majority of muslims not isis? The books didn't change did they?

It's society,education, geopolitics, etc that drives people to fundamentalism.

Fundamentalism of any ideology is the problem silly. Stalinist, naziist, Christian, white right wing nationalist, zen Buddhist, etc.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

They are just proving his point.

 

[corduroygt]

How is islam treated like a protected class. If class can even refer to a religion .

The bible has tons of anti gay, anti women, anti atheist passages too. Moderates asking for a more kind interpretation are full of bullshit too right?
We have moderates, liberals, and fundamentalists in all religions

Christianity was reformed a few hundred years ago. The Bible is not interpreted as the literal word of God by most Christians. The Quran is interpreted as the literal word of God by most Muslims. That's the difference between the two.

 

[Dennis]

It's how it is now, but every religion has had their fair share of barbarism. The Crusades weren't that long ago historically speaking.

Anything more than 500 years ago was an extremely long time ago in historical terms.

You know there is a huge problem when people have to go "bu bu but what about the Crusades!"

 

[boiled goose]

Christianity was reformed a few hundred years ago. The Bible is not interpreted as the literal word of God by most Christians. The Quran is interpreted as the literal word of God by most Muslims. That's the difference between the two.

Christianity is not a uniform blob (and that is ultimately the point).. but

Ok let's agree for the sake of argument. So it's how the text is being interpreted that's the problem right?

Saying islam is the problem casts a too wide net devoid of interpretation. If you said fundamentalist islam is the problem, id agree with you to a large extent.

The common thread i see is fundamentalism. Not one particular label vs another.

 

[JustenP88]

Ok let's agree for the sake of argument. So it's how the text is being interpreted that's the problem right?

Sure. Also, for the sake of argument, why do we seek to blame the interpretation when a religious text has undeniably disgusting content yet we don't have a problem blaming the content with other forms of... Uh... Media? Can't think of the word I'm looking for right now.

 

[boiled goose]

Sure. Also, for the sake of argument, why do we seek to blame the interpretation when a religious text has undeniably disgusting content yet we don't have a problem blaming the content with other forms of... Uh... Media? Can't think of the word I'm looking for right now.

Im not quite sure what you are getting at... that violent content is not the intrinsic issue as with videogames or movies?

Sure... it's ideologies that take content as literal.

 

[aeolist]

But Islam is not the problem guys......
Sickening...any country where muslims are a majority, the non muslims are not safe or free.
Why do liberals treat islam like it's a protected class, I don't understand. Especially when it advocates anti-gay, anti-women ideals and fosters an us vs. them mentality between muslims and non-muslims. If any other group of people did this, they'd be branded right wing nutjob racists. But muslims get a free pass

This is exactly how I feel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvvQJ_zsL1U

basically every religion does that.

the problem with muslim countries tends to be economics, political power struggles, ethnic friction, etc. it's never just religion.

 

[JustenP88]

Im not quite sure what you are getting at... that violent content is not the intrinsic issue as with videogames or movies?

Sure... it's ideologies that take content as literal.

When did we decide that we weren't supposed to take religious text as literal, though? Isn't religion the thing that significantly shapes the worldviews of the people who follow it? Isn't that the whole point? Do we think the authors of a religious passage thought "surely people won't take that bit we put in there about stoning the gays literally"?

It just seems weird and condescending to infer that the content of religious beliefs should be held to the same standard as violent video games or any other form of entertainment. People are taught that these religious texts are the inspired word of the Creator of all things. I don't think anybody put that kind of clout behind GTA V.

 

[boiled goose]

basically every religion does that.

the problem with muslim countries tends to be economics, political power struggles, ethnic friction, etc. it's never just religion.

Yup.
The most fair and proper thing to do is to criticize fundamentalist islam specifically and fundamentalism generally.

If you want to make a broader point about believing in books without good reasons being generally a bad idea that may provide cover for fundamentalism then im also with you.

When did we decide that we weren't supposed to take religious text as literal, though? Isn't religion the thing that significantly shapes the worldviews of the people who follow it? Isn't that the whole point? Do we think the authors of a religious passage thought "surely people won't take that bit we put in there about stoning the gays literally"?

It just seems weird and condescending to infer that the content of religious beliefs should be held to the same standard as violent video games or any other form of entertainment. People are taught that these religious texts are the inspired word of the Creator of all things. I don't think anybody put that kind of clout behind GTA V.

Uh...
I agree that teaching that an old violent book is the word of god is bad and that videogames are not usually portrayed as such...

I really dont get your point.

When did we decide to not take things literally? Societies progressed and religion dragged its feet. In some parts by some people feet are being dragged more than others.

 

[daniels]

How is islam treated like a protected class. If class can even refer to a religion .

The bible has tons of anti gay, anti women, anti atheist passages too. Moderates asking for a more kind interpretation are full of bullshit too right?

We have moderates, liberals, and fundamentalists in all religions

Oh please of course Islam is treated with more of a fear/kids cloves even in the west.
Make cartoons about every religion and you have only one that wants you dead for it and even might do it, that not enough the victim sometimes even gets the blame from the media or politicians in the end because apparently its obvious you get killed if you offend only one religion or something?
This borderline insanity happens mostly with only ONE religion and no other in the west.

Islam gets special treatment simply because of fear, don't even pretend it ain't that way pretty much everyone knows it.
Maybe because everyone can see how your average freedom in a Muslim majority country looks.
Or maybe everyone can see that salafists run around in Europe recruiting other crazies that want to replace current jurisdiction with sharia... its all not secret, people know this.
People have seen that making cartoons or burning a stupid book or making a joke can be enough for thousands of Muslims to go rioting/ballistic to the point off murdering random people.
Its not because we are all so nice (despite that the left pretends its not because of fear! really!) that we rename Christian holidays just to not "offend" Muslims in Europe..
Again this barely happens with any other religion.

Also yeah every religion/movement has its bad apples but numbers matter and no other religion currently produces more fanatics, problems and violence than the Islamic one.. NONE.

 

[boiled goose]

Oh please of course Islam is treated with more of a fear/kids cloves even in the west.
Make cartoons about every religion and you have only one that wants you dead for it and even might do it, that not enough the victim sometimes even gets the blame from the media or politicians in the end because apparently its obvious you get killed if you offend only one religion or something?
This borderline insanity happens mostly with only ONE religion and no other in the west.

Islam gets special treatment simply because of fear, don't even pretend it ain't that way pretty much everyone knows it.
Maybe because everyone can see how your average freedom in a Muslim majority country looks.
Or maybe everyone can see that salafists run around in Europe recruiting other crazies that want to replace current jurisdiction with sharia... it all not secret, people know this.
People have seen that making cartoons or burning a stupid book or making a joke can be enough for thousands of Muslims to go rioting/ballistic to the point off murdering random people.
Its not because we are all so nice (despite that the left pretends its not because of fear! really!) that we rename Christian holidays just to not "offend" Muslims in Europe..
Again this barely happens with any other religion.

Also yeah every religion/movement has its bad apples but numbers matter and no other religion currently produces more fanatics, problems and violence than the Islamic one.. NONE.

Ok...
Let's try to make progress here.

I agree that fear based censorship is bad.
However, at least in the usa i dont quite see kids gloves. Have you heard of fox news?

My question is: what do you think the press and media should be saying that they are not saying now?

You know where i think the double standard really is though? Since 911 most domestic terrorist attacks have been committed by white right wing nationalists, yet the media and even the government avoid the terrorist label.

 

[dan2026]

I'm not sure I can necessarily disagree that the the fundamentalists are wrong in their approach to Islam.

The book teaches that it is the literal word of God and this is how people should act, behave, who is top dog, who is not, what is right, what is wrong, etc.

So in essence they are just following what is written in the book to the letter. All the good, all the bad and everything in between.

Therefore how can people say that it is fundamentalists who are the problem and not the Islamic religion itself. They are following the religion closer than anyone.
So if you say for example I will follow this bit of Islam, but not that bit, then you could argue that you are not following Islam at all. On account of it being this divine text and all.

Note I am not advocating murder or anything nightmarish like that. But I can see it from their perspective.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Fuck man, RIP to the guy.

Hope these guys they caught get life in prison

 

[boiled goose]

I'm not sure I can necessarily disagree that the the fundamentalists are wrong in their approach to Islam.

The book teaches that it is the literal word of God and this is how people should act, behave, who is top dog, who is not, what is right, what is wrong, etc.

So in essence they are just following what is written in the book to the letter. All the good, all the bad and everything in between.

Therefore how can people say that it is fundamentalists who are the problem and not the Islamic religion itself. They are following the religion closer than anyone.
So if you say for example I will follow this bit of Islam, but not that bit, then you could argue that you are not following Islam at all. On account of it being this divine text and all.

Sure you can accuse them of picking and choosing. Just like christians not stoning unruly children or jews not burning witches. Then we get into the no true Scotsman problem.

Of course all iinterpretations are wrong but id rather folks pick non violent ones

 

[dan2026]

Sure you can accuse them of picking and choosing. Just like christians not stoning unruly children or jews not burning witches. Then we get into the no true Scotsman problem.

I just feel like dismissing fundamentalism as not being representative of actual Islam is ridiculous. Technically they are following the religion closer than most people.

Saying there is no problem with Islam, there is just a problem with fundamentalist Islam is absurd. It doesn't make sense to me.

The first step to any progress is accepting there ARE problems with the islamic religion and working towards change for the better.

The same way many other religions have done throughout history.

I am probably not articulating my ideas well, its hard to write.