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[Laughing Banana]

Ha ha, well this thread is not about me.


May a mod or admin maybe change the title of the thread to anti-Judaism since people are getting offended by my choice to use antisemitism? I removed the Israel reference so that it does not get discussed more.

Ooohhh words of a martyr

 

[way more]

His response to that makes me question my own life. Obviously that is a joke, no one could possibly read that as anything else, right?

Aspie. Further evidence was his response when called an aspie, he responded not with a joke but with a paragraph explaining that no, he gets jokes but in truth, was not an aspie.

Ooohhh words of a martyr

A social stunted martyr at that.

 

[dude]

Irrational hatred towards the Jews is bad, but there is a "holocaust industry" fueled by these mega pro-Israeli lobbying interests in the United States which perpetuate this idea of anti-semitism by calling any criticism of Israel/support of the Palestinian people as antisemitic. They use the memory of the Holocaust to advance their own goals.

You guys should read Norman Finkelstein. He has authored some extraordinary works which basically flesh out what I posted above.

The way you worded that post makes me cringe. I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but to me it reads like:

"Irrational hatred towards the Jews is bad, but there are many rational reasons to hate Jews - Holocaust industry and mega pro-Israel Lobbies in the US. Norman Finkelstein, an esteemed man with no allegation of being racist (thus removing such allegations from myself), argues something to the resemblance of what I'm saying."

I'm guessing you wanted to say that Antisemitism is bad, but claiming that legitimate criticism against the nation of Israel or any Jewish person is antisemitic is absurd. In which you'll be quite right. But you original post rubs me the wrong way because of the way it is worded. I'm saying this because I'm noticed quite a few posts with the same tune in this thread, and I'm always trying to guess whether it's thinly veiled antisemitism or a miscommunication.

 

[cousins]

Freezie KO, "complex territorial dispute" is a funny way of justifying the term "second class citizen." What is it with colonizers and never changing the language through which they justify their arguments? And, I'm referring here to the territory that consists of "Judea" and "Samaria," which are also known to everyone other than Israel as "the West Bank," as I do not refute Israel's right to exist as an entity, which is a necessity for the Jewish People. I do disagree with it being a Jewish state and not simply a state safe for Jews (the latter would allow other citizens to take pride in their country, as they wouldn't feel like impairments as opposed to components), but that's another issue.

 

[Blackace]

People deny the holocaust? WTF?

Mel Gibson's father is really famous for being a denier

 

[Pimpwerx]

Racist views are still prevalent in this society. I'd say racism towards blacks if a much bigger problem than antisemitism. Then again, I'm black. PEACE.

 

[Blackace]

Racist views are still prevalent in this society. I'd say racism towards blacks if a much bigger problem than antisemitism. Then again, I'm black. PEACE.

both "races" have been killed and tortured throughout time... not many can say that

 

[Kinitari]

The saddest anti-Semitism is the stuff my mom says. I hear it from a lot of Muslim guys around my dad's age, usually whenever they get together and complain about news and politics, reoccurring subjects are "the Jews" and the efficacy of a caliphate (would it be super duper, or just super).

But with my mom, she's a smart and kind lady who is so much more progressive than her upbringing should have normally allowed. She has a view on homosexuals that is honestly more progressive than a lot of westerners I know. She isn't judgemental of people who aren't Muslim, and in fact considers people of other Abraham religions as brothers and sisters... mostly.

When it comes to Jewish people, it's complicated. It's like she's always having to fight against something that has been bred into her. She'll see a commercial for a local businessman buying gold and be like "I bet he's Jewish... they always have money on the mind". These little comments are mostly innocent and normally would be "decent" coming out of anyone my mom's generation, let alone a Muslim who was born in Africa and schooled in Egypt. But, just the way she says it, like it's not even her talking, but some barely repressed hateful thing inside her I'm not used to seeing.

She is self aware enough to always tell me something along the lines of "you should remember to never judge anyone before you meet them or get to know them." Whenever she says something mildly anti-Semitic, that or something religiously inclusive "they're followers of Ibrahim too". I know it's not that simple, I know a lot of the western world she loves and appreciates clashes with the upbringing she had, and she has completely gotten over a lot of it (she could give a shit about other people drinking for example, and is more pro female rights every day) - but she still struggles with anti-Semitism. Hope she gets past that one day.

 

[ZiZ]

The world is a terrible place filled with racism. Every race has their haters. But in this day and age, racism against jewish people in my opinion is less than racism against many other races.

the only difference is that some "individuals" like to complain about it more than others.

 

[OttomanScribe]

both "races" have been killed and tortured throughout time... not many can say that

Could you elaborate on this a bit further?

 

[Palette Swap]

I came across this wiki article which might interest you, OP. Having read it, it seems well documented and balanced (and is an interesting read): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_antisemitism

Irwin Cotler, Professor of Law at McGill University and a leading scholar of human rights, has identified nine sets of what he considered to be "new anti-Semitism"[13]:

Genocidal anti-Semitism - The public calls for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people.

Political anti-Semitism - The denial of the Jewish people's right to self-determination; The de-legitimization of Israel as a state; The attributions to Israel of all the world's evils.

Ideological anti-Semitism - The comparison between Zionism and Racism to "Nazify" Israel.

Theological anti-Semitism - The convergence of Islamic anti-Semitism and Christian "replacement" theology, drawing on classical hatred of Jews.

Cultural anti-Semitism - The mixture of attitudes, sentiments, and discourse of "fashionable" salon intellectuals.

Economic anti-Semitism - BDS movements and extraterritorial application of restrictive covenants against countries trading with Israel.

Holocaust denial

Racist terrorism against Jews

Denial to Israel of equality before the law in the international arena - The differential and discriminatory treatment for Israel in the international arena.

(on my iPhone, sorry if the parsing is messed up)

Hannah Arendt also had an interesting look at the subject, from a historical and philosophical standpoint.

 

[KingKong]

Denial to Israel of equality before the law in the international arena - The differential and discriminatory treatment for Israel in the international arena.

well that's what happens when you get your buddy United States to veto everything for you

It's very sad to see the diehard supporters hijack the very real issue of antisemitism and turn it into a straw man against any kind of criticism of Israel

 

[Palette Swap]

well that's what happens when you get your buddy United States to veto everything for you

It's very sad to see the diehard supporters hijack the very real issue of antisemitism and turn it into a straw man against any kind of criticism of Israel

I'm not sure the dude is a diehard supporter hijacking the issue, considering he also said (from the same wiki article):

Cotler said that it is "too simplistic to say that anti-Zionism, per se, is anti-Semitic" and argued that labelling Israel as an apartheid state, while in his view "distasteful," is "still within the boundaries of argument" and not inherently antisemitic. "It's where you say, because it's an apartheid state, it has to be dismantled - then [you've] crossed the line into a racist argument, or an anti-Jewish argument," he said.

edit: to be clear, the article itself describes a number of viewpoints on the issue. I quoted this one because it tries to categorize the issue in subsets the way the OP did it.

 

[DTKT]

I'm not sure the dude is a diehard supporter hijacking the issue, considering he also said (from the same wiki article):

edit: to be clear, the article itself describes a number of viewpoints on the issue. I quoted this one because it tries to categorize the issue in subsets the way the OP did it.

"It's where you say, because it's an apartheid state, it has to be dismantled - then [you've] crossed the line into a racist argument, or an anti-Jewish argument," he said.

I'm not sure I understand that. Is he saying that you can only say that they are an apartheid state and you can't act to change it?

 

[KingKong]

The international argument exposes the uselessness of the UN Security Council where major powers like the USA, China and Russia dominate. China, with its human rights abuses, is never going to own up to it, neither is Russia and neither is the United States. the USA will protect Israel, Russia will try to protect Syria, and smaller countries don't even matter

Anyway the dismantling of an apartheid state is 1) not racist and 2) not literal, but meaning dismantling the system of discrimination, just like in South Africa

 

[strobogo]

both "races" have been killed and tortured throughout time... not many can say that

A lot of races can say that. In fact, probably most can say that. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any group or race that wasn't discriminated against/killed/tortured somewhere, at some point in time. All of these isms really are about how humans as a species have been and continue to be shitheads. You can break it down into as many individual things are you want, but I think the over arching idea through Voyager's threads are that humans need to get their shit together and truly be united. We're supposed to be the higher species, yet throughout history we've often and regularly proved ourselves to be just as animalistic and harsh to our "brothers" as any other animal.

What we need is a few of these:

 

[flippymittens]

I am bumping this thread because of the recent topic about the anti-Semitic/Jewish film from Iran hopefully this thread can be used to help dispel stereotypes and hate.

Also I missed a couple of posts directed at myself and I will get to those but I need to get a couple hours of sleep before work tomorrow. (does not matter to most but I do not like ignoring people).

 

[Jburton]

Fine, than be it Israel has a better commitment to human rights.

fucking lol.

Also these preachy LostVoyager posts are getting fucking boring now, you have to be some ignorant fool not to know racism exists, sectarianism exists, antisemitism exists, etc and so on.

 

[way more]

I am bumping this thread because of the recent topic about the anti-Semitic/Jewish film from Iran hopefully this thread can be used to help dispel stereotypes and hate.

Also I missed a couple of posts directed at myself and I will get to those but I need to get a couple hours of sleep before work tomorrow. (does not matter to most but I do not like ignoring people).

Do trolls only get work repairing the underside of bridges?

But keep bumping your old threads. That's the surest path to reclaiming full membership.