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[Fahdis]

This was the worst experience I had ever been through in terms of human sociology and psychology during Covid, mind you. I am now truly empowered with understanding Cluster B Personality Disorders due to Trauma Bonding episodes a while back (ASPD, NPD, BPD, APD... you name it).

I am No Contact with the person who claimed to love me (as their best friend for 1.5 Years) but instead this person covertly manipulated and abused me (personally she didn't fuck around with me that often due to me being a very independent person however I let a lot of red flags go due to her constant victim stories/abandonment by others - should have had alarm bells go off then). The worst part was the Flying Monkeys (people I knew before the Narcissist - ones I have traveled with and spent time with, taking her side during the smear - bonus points - they never met her in person) that was probably the worst shock because she was probably doing all this behind my back for months, so I had to cut them out as well; I swear only one person stood up for me and she was outside of this smaller network of friends I introduced the Narcissist to, thank god I didn't introduce her to my really close friends. Just because you're a man, the sympathy and empathy went towards this woman since she projected her abuse to everyone on me. Or it may even be less about gender but the fact that they are master manipulators. I could literally destroy her with what I know now, but that's my justice and truth seeking traits speaking with some minor narcissistic tendencies of my own for revenge, but I am a decent person and you don't touch something like that again. I ruminated about this person for 1-2 months like it was a drug, I read up on it and it was said that it was worse than cocaine addiction (peptide addiction in my case) when it all ended at Discard (hopefully) because they have a tendency to come back months or years later.

I am truly fine now, but god damn I had no idea personality con-artists really existed and the betrayal pain is beyond comprehension. The person really did me a favor though, not only did the trash take itself out but also the snakes around me. I also am working on my childhood wounds (I do not label myself as an empath) but I can tell you this much that my health deteriorated while this person was around due to my limbic system being on overdrive once the devaluation stage set in. I am now for the first time truly experiencing self love with the right attitude with total focus on myself (I didn't need therapy since my support network is really strong) and am doing things I truly love after a long time). I also use discernment now to see if people are good enough for me and my company, I still help anyone who needs me, but now I stay detached af. I only invest in reciprocity.

Anyone got juicy stories or was I the only sucker to go through these empty meat suits or idiots with crowns?

P.S. I will tell my story on request. I don't want to seem like a schizo and claim how I defeated the Narcissist, let's just call it a draw. I sent her into mortification by accident and she sent me a smear campaign and discard in return for her own shared fantasy broken with me that I was completely unaware of. I played the game not knowing who I was dealing with and all it taught me was watch the fuck out for ANYONE seeming too good to be true or having a huge victim complex. DO NOT REACT, thats what they want, your reactions; they are known as emotional vampires for a reason. Complete wimps though since they can never stand up to you or measure up to you - they idealized you for a reason for something you have.

 

[ArtemisClydeFrog]

 

[nush]

Just because you're a man, the sympathy and empathy went towards this woman since she projected her abuse to everyone on me.

FUCKING THIS!!!

Yes, I married a narcissist and then divorced her once her true nature showed itself. They get you by what's knows as "Love bombing" where everything is perfect they are so happy with you and are very attentive. Then as soon as they have you where they want they completely change and they want to control everything about you and your life.

They DO then manipulate everyone around you behind your back and make them think that YOU are the one that's the asshole. They don't care if they lie, cheat or steal as long as they get what they want. I could even see my own parents believing her and struggling to also support me as if I had changed character as soon as I had got married because the Ex wife claimed she knew "The real me".

Even after divorce she kept trying to manipulate everyone around me and I also had to go 100% no contact because if she heard just a single small detail about my current life she would use that as a grain of truth to spin a lie to anyone left that would listen to her.

I feel you man, people don't know what it's like to be in that situation.

 

[West Texas CEO]

Can these type of people get cured through therapy or are they perpetually destined to destroy lives ?

 

[EviLore]

Can these type of people get cured through therapy or are they perpetually destined to destroy lives ?

The latter.

 

[Toots]

She's still winning if you post wall of text about her

Cover narcissist gang 4lyf

 

[INC]

Shit this has just described me

Can I have the attention now?

 

[West Texas CEO]

 

[INC]

 

[Vagswarm]

Yes, I used to be surrounded by narcissists and other toxic people. There were a handful of sociopaths / psychopaths in there as well. I had no boundaries, sought everyone's approval, believed everything people said & followed them blindly, was a completely open book, naive and oblivious to everything, didn't stand up for myself, endless empathy, submissive... while simultaneously being full of energy, a social butterfly, easily attracting the opposite sex and having very nice materialistic things. This was in my later 20s, when it was prime time for partying and being into status / popularity. Later I learned that all of this made me the perfect supply, and exactly what they look for.

To be fair, my dad I am certain was a narcissist or an antisocial mix, and so is my brother (which I really found out later on when we lived together and after I have gained knowledge on things). I believe it was one of those unconscious decisions, where you seek after what is familar without thinking about the fact. Like in the song Beat It by MJ, I also wanted to be cool and bad... I had no direction or sense of self, with low self-esteem and weak boundaries, and was pretty much lost. So, I acted the part, and tried to be "cool", thinking everyone else was doing the same thing. Except they were genuinely abusive, manipulative, two-faced, deceitful, selfish, envious, opportunistic, etc. But also very weak and fake (which is probably what I could relate to at the time). I was just loud, immature, brash, and annoying, but had no ill intention and wasn't a bully. I did curse and say "f- you" a lot, and things like that, but I didn't know anything about social skills at the time. I thought being an enormous douche was the way to go. It is if you want toxic friends and crazy women.

Anyway, since they seemed to be so direct and all-knowing (despite not knowing anything and being full of themselves; tearing everyone down to make themselves feel better; having absolutely nothing to offer anyone at all and feeding on them like parasites....), I took this as a sign that I should be listening to them, and letting them guide the way. Afterall, I didn't know what was going on at the time. Which they also persuade into other people, through intimidation and manipulation -- their mind games can really mess with you. They literally get into your head and try to control your mind.

Long story short, I got ensnared right into their web without even knowing it, which is what really stood out to me in your post here:

I am truly fine now, but god damn I had no idea personality con-artists really existed and the betrayal pain is beyond comprehension.

This is the entire point of a toxic relationship. It's all about control and serving their self-interest at the other person's expense. The controller makes all the rules while the victim doesn't even realize a game is being played. They target the weak, naive, submissive, unknowing.... Literally everything a toxic person does is a form of manipulation to get their way. They don't "react" to things, and there is no truth behind anything they say or do. That is only what they want you to think, to continue getting their way. That's why nothing you do is ever enough, nothing they say matches what they do, and everything seems completely ass-backwards... because they are con artists and liars. Despite claiming everything they are doing for you and they have your best interests at heart, everything they are doing is for themselves at your expense. They get angry and call you selfish when you stand up for yourself or call them out, because they want to keep kicking you down and getting their way. Not because you are doing anything "wrong". Same with when you try being successful -- they do anything in their power to sabotage it, while claiming it's for your own good. They don't like the way that hot girl they could never get is treating you, so you should break up with them. All while they tear you down relentlessly to bring you down to their "level". Not to mention, normal, healthy people don't go bezerk and lash out when they can't have all the control; try to turn all your mutual friends (who are also likely toxic) against you; destroy your reputation; compete against you with everything; blame you for how they are treating you; etc, etc.

The really messed up part is that this is who they genuinely are. They don't think or operate the same way as you and I. They have no empathy, sympathy, remorse, are consumed with negativity and toxic thoughts, lose their minds if they don't have all the control, and so on. And they need supply, which is what makes them predatory. Although malignant narcissists are predatory by nature and seek out easy prey.

It definitely turned my world upside down (since they don't live in reality, but one of their making where they are Gods and everyone else is a bug to be squashed) and made me bitter about a lot of things. I still think about the kind of crap they did, but realistically I didn't know any better and couldn't do anything. Otherwise it wouldn't have happened in the first place. That's what gets to me.

Now when I watch movies or play games with a villian or bad guys (which is pretty much all of them), I see how similar they are to all those people I used to know. They're based on real character traits -- even the fictional demons and comic villians.

 

[Vagswarm]

Can confirm this is inaccurate. It only seems crazy if you are on the outside looking in. These people really do exist and try to destroy you, if you are on their radar and don't realize what's going on. In retrospect, they always "sized me up" in the beginning, to see how much they could get away with. They are bullies.

 

[Fahdis]

FUCKING THIS!!!

Yes, I married a narcissist and then divorced her once her true nature showed itself. They get you by what's knows as "Love bombing" where everything is perfect they are so happy with you and are very attentive. Then as soon as they have you where they want they completely change and they want to control everything about you and your life.

They DO then manipulate everyone around you behind your back and make them think that YOU are the one that's the asshole. They don't care if they lie, cheat or steal as long as they get what they want. I could even see my own parents believing her and struggling to also support me as if I had changed character as soon as I had got married because the Ex wife claimed she knew "The real me".

Even after divorce she kept trying to manipulate everyone around me and I also had to go 100% no contact because if she heard just a single small detail about my current life she would use that as a grain of truth to spin a lie to anyone left that would listen to her.

I feel you man, people don't know what it's like to be in that situation.

Once they can't control you, they smear you to other people to control their perception of you. This is the third assertion of control.

Lmao, imagine her new supply believing all her shit about you. Wait till he gets to the devaluation stage. I'm so glad I literally didn't let her get to devaluing me (I discarded her first cause I was sick of her constant drama - this is a 38 year old woman we're talking about here) but because I heard Borderliners (she was co-morbid for something she did aka cut her arms) actually have empathy I still messaged her the goodbye message (hence got discarded by the block). Later find out Borderliners are also mid tier narcissists who have some idea of cognitive empathy but still on the spectrum I fucked up, should have never messaged her.

Can these type of people get cured through therapy or are they perpetually destined to destroy lives ?

Most therapists will take in Borderlines but reject those with NPD. DSMR and CDT/DBT are therapies but alot of Narcs won't check in due to them having Grandiosity and feeling like Gods. They are never at fault, YOU ARE.

She's still winning if you post wall of text about her

Cover narcissist gang 4lyf

Maybe. But you wouldn't understand the pain of this kind of betrayal. Outside of that, you know someone has died for you, but you don't actually know who. The Narcissist has no sense of self so you were literally being projected your best traits through mirroring (oh, look how well we get along as besties!). NO SHIT!

Yes, I used to be surrounded by narcissists and other toxic people. There were a handful of sociopaths / psychopaths in there as well. I had no boundaries, sought everyone's approval, believed everything people said & followed them blindly, was a completely open book, naive and oblivious to everything, didn't stand up for myself, endless empathy, submissive... while simultaneously being full of energy, a social butterfly, easily attracting the opposite sex and having very nice materialistic things. This was in my later 20s, when it was prime time for partying and being into status / popularity. Later I learned that all of this made me the perfect supply, and exactly what they look for.

To be fair, my dad I am certain was a narcissist or an antisocial mix, and so is my brother (which I really found out later on when we lived together and after I have gained knowledge on things). I believe it was one of those unconscious decisions, where you seek after what is familar without thinking about the fact. Like in the song Beat It by MJ, I also wanted to be cool and bad... I had no direction or sense of self, with low self-esteem and weak boundaries, and was pretty much lost. So, I acted the part, and tried to be "cool", thinking everyone else was doing the same thing. Except they were genuinely abusive, manipulative, two-faced, deceitful, selfish, envious, opportunistic, etc. But also very weak and fake (which is probably what I could relate to at the time). I was just loud, immature, brash, and annoying, but had no ill intention and wasn't a bully. I did curse and say "f- you" a lot, and things like that, but I didn't know anything about social skills at the time. I thought being an enormous douche was the way to go. It is if you want toxic friends and crazy women.

Anyway, since they seemed to be so direct and all-knowing (despite not knowing anything and being full of themselves; tearing everyone down to make themselves feel better; having absolutely nothing to offer anyone at all and feeding on them like parasites....), I took this as a sign that I should be listening to them, and letting them guide the way. Afterall, I didn't know what was going on at the time. Which they also persuade into other people, through intimidation and manipulation -- their mind games can really mess with you. They literally get into your head and try to control your mind.

Long story short, I got ensnared right into their web without even knowing it, which is what really stood out to me in your post here:

I am truly fine now, but god damn I had no idea personality con-artists really existed and the betrayal pain is beyond comprehension.

This is the entire point of a toxic relationship. It's all about control and serving their self-interest at the other person's expense. The controller makes all the rules while the victim doesn't even realize a game is being played. They target the weak, naive, submissive, unknowing.... Literally everything a toxic person does is a form of manipulation to get their way. They don't "react" to things, and there is no truth behind anything they say or do. That is only what they want you to think, to continue getting their way. That's why nothing you do is ever enough, nothing they say matches what they do, and everything seems completely ass-backwards... because they are con artists and liars. Despite claiming everything they are doing for you and they have your best interests at heart, everything they are doing is for themselves at your expense. They get angry and call you selfish when you stand up for yourself or call them out, because they want to keep kicking you down and getting their way. Not because you are doing anything "wrong". Same with when you try being successful -- they do anything in their power to sabotage it, while claiming it's for your own good. They don't like the way that hot girl they could never get is treating you, so you should break up with them. All while they tear you down relentlessly to bring you down to their "level". Not to mention, normal, healthy people don't go bezerk and lash out when they can't have all the control; try to turn all your mutual friends (who are also likely toxic) against you; destroy your reputation; compete against you with everything; blame you for how they are treating you; etc, etc.

The really messed up part is that this is who they genuinely are. They don't think or operate the same way as you and I. They have no empathy, sympathy, remorse, are consumed with negativity and toxic thoughts, lose their minds if they don't have all the control, and so on. And they need supply, which is what makes them predatory. Although malignant narcissists are predatory by nature and seek out easy prey.

It definitely turned my world upside down (since they don't live in reality, but one of their making where they are Gods and everyone else is a bug to be squashed) and made me bitter about a lot of things. I still think about the kind of crap they did, but realistically I didn't know any better and couldn't do anything. Otherwise it wouldn't have happened in the first place. That's what gets to me.

Now when I watch movies or play games with a villian or bad guys (which is pretty much all of them), I see how similar they are to all those people I used to know. They're based on real character traits -- even the fictional demons and comic villians.

This was absolutely beautifully written. Especially the part about Toxic relationships and everything underneath. So proud you're out of that mindset. Although, I think you're literally being too harsh to your younger self. Not your fault. We are all naive at that age.

 

[nush]

Once they can't control you, they smear you to other people to control their perception of you. This is the third assertion of control.

Once these people realize they can no longer control you, they try to control the people around you.

 

[EviLore]

Main things you can do are preventative. Have your life in balance, build a good circle of friends, keep an eye out for red flags, don’t get overly attached or vulnerable in response to lovebombing. Look at the sort of people they have in their circles and what they’re doing with their life. Is their shit in order?

The heel turn happens when you let your guard down and open up, the relationship is solidified, etc., and they feel like they can get away with doing anything to you without you leaving. The best defense against that is to take it slow with people and have a healthy sense of self-worth and healthy boundaries with everyone in your life. Don’t let unreasonable things be done to you. Don’t turn your brain off. Covert types will be more patient. Don’t fall for the sunk cost fallacy. If things suddenly become nightmarish, walk away and don’t look back. If you got married and have kids and then it happens…good luck.

 

[Fahdis]

Main things you can do are preventative. Have your life in balance, build a good circle of friends, keep an eye out for red flags, don’t get overly attached or vulnerable in response to lovebombing. Look at the sort of people they have in their circles and what they’re doing with their life. Is their shit in order?

The heel turn happens when you let your guard down and open up, the relationship is solidified, etc., and they feel like they can get away with doing anything to you without you leaving. The best defense against that is to take it slow with people and have a healthy sense of self-worth and healthy boundaries with everyone in your life. Don’t let unreasonable things be done to you. Don’t turn your brain off. Covert types will be more patient. Don’t fall for the sunk cost fallacy. If things suddenly become nightmarish, walk away and don’t look back. If you got married and have kids and then it happens…good luck.

Hence talking about childhood wounds still being worked on; I was still people pleasing in my mid 30s, oversharing at times and overthinking. I literally became a new person after this experience and don't let people get close that fast anymore. I'm guessing you've had your own share of these horrible people.

She was really patient with me. She probably had a lot of supply already but at some point (9 months in) she tried to love bomb me and advanced on me romantically on 2 occassions where I politely told her I am not game - I was already the non intimate primary supply (the Narc Injury was probably insane since I turned down an apparent goddess - yes she was beautiful, absolutely fit, a former belly dancer and works for a local children charity organization - also known as Angels with a Dirty Face who have to fit in to society to think they are good people - I always felt something off about her). She would constantly bring it up when I had to go out with friends (sometimes females for a day of outings like hiking or lunch etc). It was so annoying when at first I used to find it endearing.

But absolutely what you have said is a 100% spot on. Healthy sense of self and not taking people's shit is one thing that definitely needed to be worked on. And thank god I am doing that now. When I meet new people now, I keep my mouth shut and observe with silence.

 

[Ownage]

This was the worst experience I had ever been through in terms of human sociology and psychology during Covid, mind you. I am now truly empowered with understanding Cluster B Personality Disorders due to Trauma Bonding episodes a while back (ASPD, NPD, BPD, APD... you name it).

I am No Contact with the person who claimed to love me (as their best friend for 1.5 Years) but instead this person covertly manipulated and abused me (personally she didn't fuck around with me that often due to me being a very independent person however I let a lot of red flags go due to her constant victim stories/abandonment by others - should have had alarm bells go off then). The worst part was the Flying Monkeys (people I knew before the Narcissist - ones I have traveled with and spent time with, taking her side during the smear - bonus points - they never met her in person) that was probably the worst shock because she was probably doing all this behind my back for months, so I had to cut them out as well; I swear only one person stood up for me and she was outside of this smaller network of friends I introduced the Narcissist to, thank god I didn't introduce her to my really close friends. Just because you're a man, the sympathy and empathy went towards this woman since she projected her abuse to everyone on me. Or it may even be less about gender but the fact that they are master manipulators. I could literally destroy her with what I know now, but that's my justice and truth seeking traits speaking with some minor narcissistic tendencies of my own for revenge, but I am a decent person and you don't touch something like that again. I ruminated about this person for 1-2 months like it was a drug, I read up on it and it was said that it was worse than cocaine addiction (peptide addiction in my case) when it all ended at Discard (hopefully) because they have a tendency to come back months or years later.

I am truly fine now, but god damn I had no idea personality con-artists really existed and the betrayal pain is beyond comprehension. The person really did me a favor though, not only did the trash take itself out but also the snakes around me. I also am working on my childhood wounds (I do not label myself as an empath) but I can tell you this much that my health deteriorated while this person was around due to my limbic system being on overdrive once the devaluation stage set in. I am now for the first time truly experiencing self love with the right attitude with total focus on myself (I didn't need therapy since my support network is really strong) and am doing things I truly love after a long time). I also use discernment now to see if people are good enough for me and my company, I still help anyone who needs me, but now I stay detached af. I only invest in reciprocity.

Anyone got juicy stories or was I the only sucker to go through these empty meat suits or idiots with crowns?

P.S. I will tell my story on request. I don't want to seem like a schizo and claim how I defeated the Narcissist, let's just call it a draw. I sent her into mortification by accident and she sent me a smear campaign and discard in return for her own shared fantasy broken with me that I was completely unaware of. I played the game not knowing who I was dealing with and all it taught me was watch the fuck out for ANYONE seeming too good to be true or having a huge victim complex. DO NOT REACT, thats what they want, your reactions; they are known as emotional vampires for a reason. Complete wimps though since they can never stand up to you or measure up to you - they idealized you for a reason for something you have.

Lol, oh yeah. My ex-wife was grade A BPD bipolar. Cluster B types seek out those who have no idea as to what they are, and use them for all they're worth. Didn't read most of your post, but respectfully, based on your intro paragraph and data dump, I've been exactly where you are. NC is the only way to go. Check out Reddit and their forums on dating/married to Narcissists, or raised by Ns. Hearing the stories will help, and also research how to get over them faster. It will take some time, and you will eventually find yourself very angry at the situation, but it will phase itself out eventually. The end game is not giving a damn about her or your own feelings of what happened - indifference is the silver bullet for them and for getting over the situation.

In the mean time, having a few plates for temporary relief does help, especially your ego, as long as you make it clear all you're looking for is exercise in booty destruction. Yes, I'm being cheeky, but the puns are meant to disarm the seriousness. This will pass, as does everything else.

 

[RavenSan]

My dad is a textbook narcissist. I haven't really spoken to him more than "hey, hows things" in about 10 years. I remember when I first read up on NPD and it just clicked. It's fucking wild though. Told him to his face I don't want anything to do with him, and yet he continues to text me (or visit my wife at work, she's a hairdresser) - and tell me how much he'd love to see me (us), and that "he's not so bad a guy"

It's all performative bullshit. He wants to play the "Good dad" because his ego can't fathom that his son doesn't accept his bullshit hook line and sinker like all of his colleagues, co-workers, etc.

I don't know how long ago this happened to you OP, but if I've learned anything, it's that a tiger can't change his stripes. Stay strong. Keep your distance. Don't believe the lies that they can change (if they ever try and reach out) -- and just accept that the people who are telling you they've changed, or they're not like that, are just victims in waiting.

One last thing -- if people wanted you to speak nicely about them, they would have treated you better. You owe them nothing.

 

[nush]

It's all performative bullshit. He wants to play the "Good dad" because his ego can't fathom that his son doesn't accept his bullshit hook line and sinker like all of his colleagues, co-workers, etc.

And you know he's telling them all you are the asshole for not being a loving son when he's doing "So much" for you.

 

[CrankyJay™]

Can someone bullet point me the main tenants of narcissism to watch out for? I've probably met a few in my day.

 

[RavenSan]

And you know he's telling them all you are the asshole for not being a loving son when he's doing "So much" for you.

Haha, you know it! My brother has a better relationship with him than I do -- so he tries to leverage that. My father was dating a woman (it ended poorly, who could have guessed) and apparently she told him that he should seek some professional help to deal with the family issues (i.e. me wanting nothing to do with him) -- and his response was "I don't need therapy -- RavenSan needs to get over it"

I just about fell outa my chair when my brother told me that one.

 

[-Minsc-]

Possibly. Or I'm the covert narcissist. Or both.

 

[nush]

"I don't need therapy -- RavenSan needs to get over it"

I don't think my dad is a narcissist but he's said "I don't understand Nush". Meaning it's a "Me" problem not he was an abusive controlling parent and I don't forget that. he honstly thinks that I can't remember what things he did to me (Not sexual BTW) when I was around 5 until I was old enough to live on my own becuse it was so long ago I must not remember it.

I mean as a kid it was things he did to me, as an adult I think holy fuck you did that to a kid. your own kid!?

 

[AJUMP23]

Can these type of people get cured through therapy or are they perpetually destined to destroy lives ?

The thing is a Narcissist doesn't see themselves as having an issue or having a problem. Everyone else is the problem not them. Even for people that are aren't self absorbed learning humility is difficult.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

I always wonder if these people are even aware though of their actions and manipulations or its just innate and who they were born as. No way to change it. Its subconcious and just how life is and always has been in their perspective.

sorry for your loss of time and emotions though OP

 

[Halo is Back]

Can these type of people get cured through therapy or are they perpetually destined to destroy lives ?

They are pretty much incurable. Some have managed to lessen their symptoms, but it's such a hard disorder to treat, and most often than not, they don't see anything wrong with their behavior so most don't even seek professional help.

 

[nush]

They are pretty much incurable. Some have managed to lessen their symptoms, but it's such a hard disorder to treat, and most often than not, they don't see anything wrong with their behavior so most don't even seek professional help.

I recommended that to her and she rage flipped. Ironically proving my point.

 

[Halo is Back]

For those interested Dr. Ramani does a pretty good job breaking down what dating a Narcissist looks like.

 

[Vagswarm]

You guys are completely right when you say the best thing to do is to prevent them from attaching to you, and the best way to know what to look for is through first-hand experience.

What I noticed when they were sizing me up was they'd spend a lot of time just staring and watching my every move. And it felt like they were always around and acting superior in their interactions. They very much stalk their prey. I thought I was just that awesome (lol), but they were calculating. Like the bullies they are, they test the waters with a subtle insult to see if you'll tolerate it. Then they'll continue and continue and get worse and worse. They're cowards who target the weak & vulnerable and pounce on them like no tomorrow, while fleeing at the first sign of defense. They are always moving and attacking. And they switch masks constantly. Big things to watch for. Another one is acting wounded and preying on people's pity. The more empathy you have, the better for them. And something always feels off about them when they approach you, and in your interactions in general. They are a wolf in sheep's clothing.

In their interactions, they'd talk about how great they are and how worthless everyone else is -- including you. When they did degrade themselves or share a failure, it was to get sympathy and attention. It was always about them, and I mean always. They are the best and everyone else is trash. And these were automatic responses. If something good happened to you, it didn't happen the way you thought; you're obviously lying or over-exaggerating. Meanwhile their situation was the absolute best and they were complete winners at everything. And they switch from gloating and glee (for them) to contempt (for everyone else) in an instant. They literally recreate reality as it suits them, and project constantly. All of their faults and weaknesses are projected onto everyone else, while everything good in others they try to take away through lies, gas-lighting, etc. They literally try to create a Frankenstien out of thin air. They also gain satisfaction when tearing people down and seeing them fail. You can see it in their smirk and how their eyes light up. They also get this when pulling one over on someone.

Their negativity is clear as day (if you're not negative yourself, which I definitely was at the time). They're constantly criticizing, gossiping, trying to filter everything through their negative lens before telling everyone "how it really is", and basically talking smack about everyone and hating everything. They are always bored and empty, and have no boundaries. They are usually aggressive. In the beginning they try to make you feel special, but that's only because you have something they want. And make no mistake: behind closed doors, they'd always talk about the people they exploited in a braggart fashion. Just like they are about you when you're not around. Same with all the gossiping. Being charming is just another mask. These people are miserable, envious and entitled, and take it out on those around them.

As mentioned above, they go after the wounded & vulnerable (you can tell I had low self-esteem back then; I can see it in others now), and act as though they could help them. They're only looking out for them and trying to do what's best. So of course they'd be your instant best friend, invite you to their home, do everything with you, introduce you to their toxic friends who side with them, etc. But they're actually isolating you and trying to gain control quickly. They also act like they are just like you, and try to play on your pity and sympathy to see how much empathy you have. They use your weaknesses against you as it benefits them. And they are always testing you to see what you'll believe, tolerate, etc. The more naive and empathetic and reasonable you are, the longer they can keep you in their web. They need someone who will give them constant attention, believe their lies, admire them (for their lies), give them chance after chance, and whatever else you can provide. The more destructive aspects are, always needing to be right, #1, and superior to everyone else (which means you must be wrong and inferior at all times), constantly criticizing and one-upping, attention whoring to the extreme (they never leave you alone), manipulating for fun, and viewing people as objects to exploit for their own gain. They are human parasites. They need you to need them, while pretending as though you are the needy one (which is another projection they shame you for). You find out eventually that it's all smoke & mirrors; they aren't actually helping you with anything -- only taking it away and draining your energy like no other. Their insults and criticisms are to break you down and gain further control. They expect everyone to obey and admire them. They want power and control.

I'd definitely say, don't act weak, vulnerable, isolated, or hopeless. Don't share weaknesses and insecurities with everybody. And definitely don't be naive, overly trusting, and give people the benefit of the doubt or believe everything you hear. Those are things predators look for. They love to swoop in like vultures during traumatic times and act like the savior to all your problems -- when they're only going to make them 20x worse. And always pay attention.

 

[Vagswarm]

There's a TON of great information out there about narcissists and toxic people in general, but this is a good list of the kind of crap they do:

7 Typical Narcissist Mind Games They Play To Control You – The Narcissistic Life

thenarcissisticlife.com

#3 is what happened when I called them out at the end, lol. They refuse responsibility and won't apologize until the very end. I exposed them all on social media and went off. It might not have been the best thing to do, but I was completely fed up with their crap and ready to explode. They pretty much all disappeared after that.

 

[CloudNull]

Late night gaf hits different.... OP sorry for the shit you went through. If you want a juicy story check out the Dear John podcast. These psychos are everywhere.

 

[John Bilbo]

In their interactions, they'd talk about how great they are and how worthless everyone else is -- including you. When they did degrade themselves or share a failure, it was to get sympathy and attention. It was always about them, and I mean always. They are the best and everyone else is trash. And these were automatic responses. If something good happened to you, it didn't happen the way you thought; you're obviously lying or over-exaggerating. Meanwhile their situation was the absolute best and they were complete winners at everything. And they switch from gloating and glee (for them) to contempt (for everyone else) in an instant. They literally recreate reality as it suits them, and project constantly. All of their faults and weaknesses are projected onto everyone else, while everything good in others they try to take away through lies, gas-lighting, etc. They literally try to create a Frankenstien out of thin air. They also gain satisfaction when tearing people down and seeing them fail. You can see it in their smirk and how their eyes light up. They also get this when pulling one over on someone.

Their negativity is clear as day (if you're not negative yourself, which I definitely was at the time). They're constantly criticizing, gossiping, trying to filter everything through their negative lens before telling everyone "how it really is", and basically talking smack about everyone and hating everything. They are always bored and empty, and have no boundaries. They are usually aggressive. In the beginning they try to make you feel special, but that's only because you have something they want. And make no mistake: behind closed doors, they'd always talk about the people they exploited in a braggart fashion. Just like they are about you when you're not around. Same with all the gossiping. Being charming is just another mask. These people are miserable, envious and entitled, and take it out on those around them.

This is an accurate description according to my experiences.

For me maybe the hardest realization during therapy was the imprint she had left on me during the decades I spent time with her. It is as if she became a part of my psyche. I'm still figuring out how to deal with that.

 

[Ikutachi]

Yes. In a roommate situation. Learned a lot from it all the same.

 

[MacReady13]

I have 2 examples that sound like they may fit in here-

1st was almost 20 years ago. I had just started dating my then girlfriend (now my wife) and I was, for the 1st time, sitting in her parents loungeroom with her parents whilst she got ready as we were set to go out to play some pool and go for drinks. Her elder sister (she is my age and I am 17 months older than my wife) was also getting ready to go out with her then boyfriend (later became her fiance and then they broke up). She was dressed and ready to go and all I could hear him saying was how she wasn't dressed right for what he was wearing and that she needs to change her shoes as well. She willingly changed and I just sat there thinking this guy is a complete jerk. My younger brother in law was going out with them as well and he was dressed far too casually for his liking so he was told to change as well.
This led to years of this guy putting everyone around him down, including me cause I never went to Uni and he saw people as losers who didn't go to Uni like he did! He had to have everything his way. If he didn't, he would have a sook about it. He fought with my younger brother once cause he was right and my brother was wrong! This all rubbed me the wrong way and eventually I told him to fuck off and for the next year we never spoke. Caused quite a bit of tension between myself and my partner and we actually broke up over it (her sister stopped talking to us and I didn't want to get in the middle of a sibling rivalry so I said better for me to leave her as I felt like I was the cause for the issues). Eventually we got back together and 1 night, whilst I was dropping off my partner at home, the narcissist was dropping off my sister in law. He sped off and my SIL was walking away from the house crying. At this stage we weren't talking but I said to my GF go inside and I'll try speak to her. I caught up with her and asked if she was ok, and she just said everything was fine and it'll all work out.
A few weeks later (and just a month before their marriage was to begin) he broke up with her! Greatest day of my life up to that point! Funnily enough, once he left her everyone in the family was telling me how much of a jerk he was and how they knew in the argument I had with him that I was right and he was wrong! Would've been nice to have heard that at the time but what can you do? He was just a complete self centered jerk. Never seen anything like it in my life. Any slight disagreement that went against what he believed and you were a fool to him. Only reading these explanations now in this thread I'm starting to see what we had in this fucking jerk.

Next was a good friend of mine. I hadn't spoken to him in a while, and when I eventually initiated contact after about a year of not hearing from him, he told me a very sad and fascinating story...
He was going out with this beautiful lady. He assumed things were going fine but he said something seemed off so he decided to break things off (they were working in the same accounting firm). Next thing he knows, she has cancer. Starts missing days of work and going to the hospital. Started going bald through treatment and he stayed with her a little longer. Somehow or another, his work wasn't buying it and found out that she never had cancer and was forging medical certificates from the hospital just so my friend would never leave her. I was just gob smacked as he was telling me this story in detail! He left her straight away all the while she kept maintaining the facade. He said it was almost too sad to see someone stoop so low.

I don't know whether these stories fit the categories you're all talking about but they sound about right to me...

 

[Fahdis]

I have 2 examples that sound like they may fit in here-

1st was almost 20 years ago. I had just started dating my then girlfriend (now my wife) and I was, for the 1st time, sitting in her parents loungeroom with her parents whilst she got ready as we were set to go out to play some pool and go for drinks. Her elder sister (she is my age and I am 17 months older than my wife) was also getting ready to go out with her then boyfriend (later became her fiance and then they broke up). She was dressed and ready to go and all I could hear him saying was how she wasn't dressed right for what he was wearing and that she needs to change her shoes as well. She willingly changed and I just sat there thinking this guy is a complete jerk. My younger brother in law was going out with them as well and he was dressed far too casually for his liking so he was told to change as well.
This led to years of this guy putting everyone around him down, including me cause I never went to Uni and he saw people as losers who didn't go to Uni like he did! He had to have everything his way. If he didn't, he would have a sook about it. He fought with my younger brother once cause he was right and my brother was wrong! This all rubbed me the wrong way and eventually I told him to fuck off and for the next year we never spoke. Caused quite a bit of tension between myself and my partner and we actually broke up over it (her sister stopped talking to us and I didn't want to get in the middle of a sibling rivalry so I said better for me to leave her as I felt like I was the cause for the issues). Eventually we got back together and 1 night, whilst I was dropping off my partner at home, the narcissist was dropping off my sister in law. He sped off and my SIL was walking away from the house crying. At this stage we weren't talking but I said to my GF go inside and I'll try speak to her. I caught up with her and asked if she was ok, and she just said everything was fine and it'll all work out.
A few weeks later (and just a month before their marriage was to begin) he broke up with her! Greatest day of my life up to that point! Funnily enough, once he left her everyone in the family was telling me how much of a jerk he was and how they knew in the argument I had with him that I was right and he was wrong! Would've been nice to have heard that at the time but what can you do? He was just a complete self centered jerk. Never seen anything like it in my life. Any slight disagreement that went against what he believed and you were a fool to him. Only reading these explanations now in this thread I'm starting to see what we had in this fucking jerk.

Next was a good friend of mine. I hadn't spoken to him in a while, and when I eventually initiated contact after about a year of not hearing from him, he told me a very sad and fascinating story...
He was going out with this beautiful lady. He assumed things were going fine but he said something seemed off so he decided to break things off (they were working in the same accounting firm). Next thing he knows, she has cancer. Starts missing days of work and going to the hospital. Started going bald through treatment and he stayed with her a little longer. Somehow or another, his work wasn't buying it and found out that she never had cancer and was forging medical certificates from the hospital just so my friend would never leave her. I was just gob smacked as he was telling me this story in detail! He left her straight away all the while she kept maintaining the facade. He said it was almost too sad to see someone stoop so low.

I don't know whether these stories fit the categories you're all talking about but they sound about right to me...

Your SIL's ex just sounds like a controlling piece of shit. NPD has specific traits and they are almost always textbook the same. We all have Narcissism to some extent but it doesn't take away from something us neurotypicals have which is feeling empathy for another human being. Not all people have NPD. Maybe he could have but you didn't know him that well. He sounds like he was just an asshole.

2nd one, perhaps she was a Borderliner (they get obssessed with their victim). To pull this shit off you have to be a pathological liar which is a Cluster B trait. Not too sure with the small amount of information given but damn it sounds horrible. Faking cancer. Fuck.

 

[tsumake]

I find this channel to be very informative on the subject.

My ex was a covert narcissist. It opened my eyes to the condition and it explained a lot of the toxic relationships I has in my life. I learned that I need to appreciate the good people in my life and to look for better to have relationships. It also made me realize what narcissistic behavior is and to try to avoid falling into those patterns myself.

 

[Fahdis]

I find this channel to be very informative on the subject.

My ex was a covert narcissist. It opened my eyes to the condition and it explained a lot of the toxic relationships I has in my life. I learned that I need to appreciate the good people in my life and to look for better to have relationships. It also made me realize what narcissistic behavior is and to try to avoid falling into those patterns myself.

I might interest you or anyone on an even deeper level to understand Narcissism by Self-Aware Narcissists. The pathology is now educational for me and it get even more ridiculous and insane. The first one is Sam Vaknin (he termed and coined NPD and all these terms we use) basically the person who re-invented the personality disorder field (he's a self aware cereberal Narcissist, an actual academic with a Ph.D in the field) and the second is H.G. Tudor who is a self aware "greater" Narcissist and tells you how Narcissists work. I got over most of my trauma bond listening to these 2 because it was coming from the source itself and of course Dr. Ramani. And yes this Doctor is great too. Les Carter is his name I think.

 

[tsumake]

I might interest you or anyone on an even deeper level to understand Narcissism by Self-Aware Narcissists. The pathology is now educational for me and it get even more ridiculous and insane. The first one is Sam Vaknin (he termed and coined NPD and all these terms we use) basically the person who re-invented the personality disorder field (he's a self aware cereberal Narcissist) and the second is H.G. Tudor who is a self aware "greater" Narcissist and tells you how Narcissists work. I got over most of my trauma bond listening to these 2 because it was coming from the source itself and of course Dr. Ramani. And yes this Doctor is great too. Les Carter is his name I think.

Thanks for that. It’s funny how these experiences make us amateur psychologists.

 

[Fahdis]

This is an accurate description according to my experiences.

For me maybe the hardest realization during therapy was the imprint she had left on me during the decades I spent time with her. It is as if she became a part of my psyche. I'm still figuring out how to deal with that.

I'm so sorry to hear this. Is therapy still not helping? The Narc saw you as an extention of themselves and you probably had reasons not to leave for a long time. I hope you keep getting help. Took me 3 months but I am so much better now. Life lesson learned.

 

[Ailynn]

A roommate with covert narcissistic personality disorder nearly destroyed my best friend and I over the last couple of years. He was incredibly verbally and psychologically abusive to both of us when away from other people, as well as physically abusive to my best friend (his wife at the time). We are finally almost completely free of him and are recovering slowly.

A covert narcissist is one of the strongest sources of darkness you can allow into your life. I hope all of you research the signs and protect yourselves as best as you can.

 

[showernota]

I have immediate family who are narcissists. It took me most of my young adult life to figure out exactly what was wrong with them, and afterwards it was like they just let the mask fall away permanently. I haven’t talked to either one in years, which is sad but for the best.

The upside is it’s helped tremendously in my love life. In my experience, the covert narcissists can last about 2 months before the cracks in their fake-normal persona start to show.

 

[Ormberg]

I was married to one and we have kids. No contact is not an option. I've been through hell to get the kids to stay every other week with the other parent. I started off with zero hours per month first couple of months... I don't live in the US, in Europe.
As she had to deal with social services they eventually saw through her facade and encouraged me to fight for my kids. Now I know it will be a fifteen year struggle to help my kids understand their mother. This knowledge consume pretty much all my internal emotions so I've gone cold with dating, I have nothing to offer and have an incredible hard time trusting women (and I know that's not fair on women as a group!).

At least the weeks with the kids are great.

 

[Ailynn]

 

[Vagswarm]

Thanks for that. It’s funny how these experiences make us amateur psychologists.

No doubt. And it's a very common process. The kind of crap they do is so unlike anything you'd think was possible (or that anyone could do) that your mind has trouble processing it. I couldn't believe how much information there was out there -- and I had no idea about any of it. For a lot of people in their recovery process, according to some articles I read, they'd do a search for what they went through or the behaviors they witnessed, then came upon narcissism and did all the research they possibly could. That's how they finally put the pieces together. And it's a huge clustermess.

I think as rational humans -- and this is something predators use against us as well -- we need to understand why things happen; to have closure and so forth.

 

[Virt McPolygon]

"Trauma bonding" is such a weird fucking thing. Steer clear of anyone that's constantly complaining, overly dramatic or bringing up their personal issues lol

 

[tsumake]

"Trauma bonding" is such a weird fucking thing. Steer clear of anyone that's constantly complaining, overly dramatic or bringing up their personal issues lol

Are you referring to this thread?

 

[nush]

"Trauma bonding" is such a weird fucking thing. Steer clear of anyone that's constantly complaining, overly dramatic or bringing up their personal issues lol

Explain dude, one reading is reffering to the sociopath that other reading makes you look like a fucking cunt.

 

[John Bilbo]

I'm so sorry to hear this. Is therapy still not helping? The Narc saw you as an extention of themselves and you probably had reasons not to leave for a long time. I hope you keep getting help. Took me 3 months but I am so much better now. Life lesson learned.

I have gained a lot of insight from therapy. It actually took over five years of therapy and several therapists just to figure out the cause of my misery. After that I started going no contact with the person who hurt me.

I have to say going no contact is the best way to start the recovery process. It hurt like hell, but in the long run it gave me the time and space to start living my own life and try to get on my own two feet.

 

[Toots]

Maybe. But you wouldn't understand the pain of this kind of betrayal

Dude my own older brother is a schizophrenic paranoid under guardianship. i know far more about betrayal and mental illness than you think.
What i was trying to do with my joke was pointing the fact that he still has some work to do on himself (as we all do).
At the time the thread had a lighter tone than it has now, i wouldn't have posted that after all the testimonies of abuse by gaffers.

So please don't take my post too seriously, and for all gaffers who are struggling, hang in there! You got strength to overcome (i truly believe that) because you are a human being and nothing less. I wish one day you'll see how complex and beautiful you all are.

 

[Mossybrew]

I consider my ex something of a narcissist, but after reading this thread I would say she's not nearly extreme enough to be considered one of theses NPD predators, whom thankfully I've never had to deal with in life. I'm not very Empathic and have a low tolerance for other people's bullshit and drama, so I'm probably not an ideal target for this kind of person.

 

[-Minsc-]

I am conflicted as I can definitely see such traits in myself. Throughout life I always did have a tough time relating with others. It is very probable there are people close to me who maneuver to keep me close so I'll take that into consideration. People come to my mind. Seeing that stuff in others is easy. Acknowledging it within myself, that's hard. I'm left wondering, do I really care about the other people? In a way I believe I do, just not the way they'd like. More honestly, perhaps, not in the way I'd imagine they'd like. Maybe getting away from certain people is the way. In doing so maybe I can better determine where I'm the asshole and where they are. Or, in doing so, am

One thing I recall is making the decision many, many years to progressively speak my mind. I can see how in doing so I've taken up a more outward "I" mindset. What I'm not sure weary of is if this is a response to trying to compete with others or if it was my natural internal workings coming out.

As a child I was one of the quiet people and I recall gravitating toward the seemingly loud people. I wouldn't be the one to initiate the conversations.

There's opposing ideas swarming through my mind. There's the idea of being a victim and that's it's OK to be a victim. Then there's the idea that it's not OK to be a victim. I'm really not sure which to trust.

As a youth I recall liking being praised for doing a good job. I can see how this has influenced me to lie blatantly about some mistake I made or lie by silence.

Definitely a jealous and envious person. Mostly about me and not other people. Looking for attention? Very likely.