Support NeoGAF

[Soybean]

If it weren't so damned impractical and altogether a really terrible idea, I'd have absolutely no problem with war against China. They have given themselves a legal basis to use military action against Taiwan. I can't imagine that any U.S. administration, Democratic or Republican, would fail to act against such an attack, but all-out war would be too destabilizing to the global economy. I already spend too much time worrying about Asian countries ending their rampant purchases of U.S. bonds, which would send interest rates skyrocketing (this wouldn't be an issue if we could cut the damn deficit). Theoretically, China's moves towards capitalism will open up the society on its own, hopefully leading to a democratic society that accepts Taiwan's independence and protects minorities like Tibetans. Plus, they can't block the internet forever.

In the meantime, I hate China. I can't believe they've been allowed to host the 2008 Olympics. I got so pissed when I was flipping through Yao Ming's autobiography and he gave this awful, brainwashed justification for why Tibet should be part of China. I don't know why it is that I despise them so much more than other (possibly worse) totalitarian regimes. Maybe it's because I'm Asian (Vietnamese).

 

[6.8]

I dunno but their all-you-can eat buffets are delicious.

 

[Blackace]

Yeah they have been hating on Taiwan for a long time now... my friend lives there (Taiwanese) and has mixed feelings for the country of China... mostly hate, but Taiwanese respect China maybe because they speak Chinese as well as Taiwanese. I don't quite get the relationship between the people of the two countries... kind of the battered wife syndrome

 

[Doth Togo]

I dunno but their all-you-can eat buffets are delicious.

I agree. Moo goo gai pan kicks ass.

 

[Soybean]

I can understand good feelings towards China. It's the homeland more or less. I've never set foot off of North America, but I'd still like to visit Vietnam some day, understand where my parents come from and all. Still, the Vietnamese government sucks.

 

[Blackace]

I can understand good feelings towards China. It's the homeland more or less. I've never set foot off of North America, but I'd still like to visit Vietnam some day, understand where my parents come from and all. Still, the Vietnamese government sucks.

well Taiwanese people (most of the younger ones at least) want to stay Taiwan. They do not want to be China.. so in that regard I don't quite understand how they respect China so muc when China says they want to invade like every year...

But I do understand the whole homeland thing

 

[Azih]

Sadly when the revolution comes Soybean will be the first against the wall.

 

[ChumsGum]

I luv sushi.

 

[duckroll]

Sorry to burst your bubble but if China attacked Taiwan, no country in the world would do a thing. No one legally recognizes Taiwan as an independant nation because they are NOT. This has nothing to do with how you feel about China or Taiwan on their own, but Taiwan has zero right as an "independant" country. Maybe you should read up a little of history about Taiwan and China before you side either side.

 

[Azih]

Sorry to burst your bubble but if China attacked Taiwan, no country in the world would do a thing. No one legally recognizes Taiwan as an independant nation because they are NOT. This has nothing to do with how you feel about China or Taiwan on their own, but Taiwan has zero right as an "independant" country. Maybe you should read up a little of history about Taiwan and China before you side either side.

Blah. To my mind what the residents of an area consider themselves should be a primary factor that determines their nationality and the soveregnity of that area. How they gained control of the region is a mitigating concern however.

 

[Saturnman]

Who cares about Taiwan? The Taiwanese perhaps. The country shouldn't even exist if the US didn't interfere in China's civil war.

Still not worth starting WW3 over in any case.

 

[duckroll]

Blah. To my mind what the residents of an area consider themselves should be the only factor that determines their nationality and the soveregnity of that area.

That's not the only issue, they don't consider themselves Taiwan, they also consider themselves the RIGHTFUL China. Since they were a bunch of losers in the civil war that ran off to a piece of land owned by China in all the chaos and declared themselves legitimite there. How does that sound now?

 

[Soybean]

Sorry to burst your bubble but if China attacked Taiwan, no country in the world would do a thing. No one legally recognizes Taiwan as an independant nation because they are NOT. This has nothing to do with how you feel about China or Taiwan on their own, but Taiwan has zero right as an "independant" country. Maybe you should read up a little of history about Taiwan and China before you side either side.

Depends on how you interpret the Taiwan Relations Act. A lot of Congresspeople and military people see it as mandating the U.S. to defend Taiwan. Whether or not it would translate to anything when shit actually happened is another story, so I agree with you there. But it could happen.

 

[Azih]

That's not the only issue, they don't consider themselves Taiwan, they also consider themselves the RIGHTFUL China. Since they were a bunch of losers in the civil war that ran off to a piece of land owned by China in all the chaos and declared themselves legitimite there. How does that sound now?

Well I know that but the younger generation dont' really consider themselves to be the 'true' China anymore. Doesn't that change matters?

 

[Nerevar]

Sorry to burst your bubble but if China attacked Taiwan, no country in the world would do a thing. No one legally recognizes Taiwan as an independant nation because they are NOT. This has nothing to do with how you feel about China or Taiwan on their own, but Taiwan has zero right as an "independant" country. Maybe you should read up a little of history about Taiwan and China before you side either side.

You really think China has not taken military action to recapture Taiwan over the years because they're just good people? China has only refrained from doing that because for years they knew NATO would come to Taiwan's defense (kind of that whole "communism" thing that was a big deal a few years ago). Keep in mind it wasn't really until Nixon that the US even acknowledged mainland China as seperate from Taiwan. And what do you mean "no one legally recognizes Taiwan as an independent nation"? The only reason that Taiwan doesn't have a seat in the UN is because of Chinese political pressure (which, in case you forgot, China has a seat on the security council), not because other nations feel it has "zero right as an independent country." Stop pulling this stuff from your ass, you sound no better than a right-wing (or left-wing, I guess, in China's case) nationalist, and present no compelling arguments to defend your case.

 

[Blackace]

Sorry to burst your bubble but if China attacked Taiwan, no country in the world would do a thing. No one legally recognizes Taiwan as an independant nation because they are NOT. This has nothing to do with how you feel about China or Taiwan on their own, but Taiwan has zero right as an "independant" country. Maybe you should read up a little of history about Taiwan and China before you side either side.

ummm... no... Taiwan has changed hands a few times. But they are an independant country now.


You wouldn't happen to be Chinese by any chance?

Sorry if this is blunt. I don't mean anything by it... I just have seen this reaction a lot from Chinese people when Taiwan's as a free country comes up..

but I am an Asian history major, Japanese history really Meiji - Showa so I have had a chance to study a bit of Chinese history and Taiwanese history, so I am not saying I know much about Taiwan and China besides what when they crossed paths with Japan. but saying that Taiwan has no right to be an independant country because of their history with China is kind of like saying that Okinawa should go back under Chinese rule because of their history...

 

[DonasaurusRex]

The relationship is pretty much Taiwan is a part of china "i guess" but is really only part of china when a emperor/warlord has to run from the mainland haha. After the war between china and japan, taiwan was the prize *cant you feel the love*. After japan got kicked in the nuts by the US though Chiang Kai Shek *that is NOT spelled right* was ousted out of china by rival Mao. Then all of a sudden after like 950years of just being that island off the coast of the middle kingdom, and like 45 years of being a japanese colony tada here comes the KMT and its the republic of china all of a sudden.

Taiwanese people didnt like this and would've rather been under rule of postwar japan, but Chiang did do one thing right he got low paying manufacturing jobs to taiwan. Soon those manufacturing jobs were in the PC business , hdds, motherboards, etc. Taiwan got rich , china all the while was busy busting peoples asses for what they thought and was dirt poor. Many people defected to taiwan. Ultimately Mao died before he could get Taiwan back out of pride, but his succesor who revolutionized Chinas communist gov with capitalist economy wanted taiwan back for financial reasons.

He opened up china to taiwanese investment and even let people who couldnt go back to china after fleeing to taiwan (remember they all ran at the end of WWII) come home for visits. Hoping this would bring Taiwan back to the fold, especially since the RoC was no longer recognized as a country by the UN. Much like Hong Kong china saw this as china becoming complete, but the problem was Taiwan didnt have a lease and they told China to shove it, after 50 some years of being ruled by the KMT taiwanese people had their fill of oppressive rulers and government. They even suggested being a part of japan again rather than join a communist government.

 

[fallout]

Blah. To my mind what the residents of an area consider themselves should be a primary factor that determines their nationality and the soveregnity of that area. How they gained control of the region is a mitigating concern however.

But really, could you actually stand to have a place called Jesus Land?

 

[Saturnman]

Children of Israeli settlers were born and grew up in the occupied territories, it still doesn't make the lands theirs.

 

[duckroll]

Depends on how you interpret the Taiwan Relations Act. A lot of Congresspeople and military people see it as mandating the U.S. to defend Taiwan. Whether or not it would translate to anything when shit actually happened is another story, so I agree with you there. But it could happen.

It could, but many things *could* happen. It's still more likely that the US starts the draft for more cannon fodder in a war against Iran than they would ever move against China in defense of Taiwan. Both of which are highly unlikely. The problem at this point isn't with China, it's with Taiwan's arrogance and ignorance.

Their government encourages the people to go anti-China and pro-independance without highlighting the consequences to the people. In the end if a war breaks out it sure as hell won't be the government that'll be doing all the dying, and if Taiwan decides to go all the way China *will* have to intervene. Taiwan is really lucky China hasn't done anything for all these years, and they should be happy with that and not demand for more. The fault in this case does NOT lie with China, they might have many faults but this Taiwan issue is not on of them. The ball's in Taiwan's court and they're not very good with it.

 

[Blackace]

It could, but many things *could* happen. It's still more likely that the US starts the draft for more cannon fodder in a war against Iran than they would ever move against China in defense of Taiwan. Both of which are highly unlikely. The problem at this point isn't with China, it's with Taiwan's arrogance and ignorance. Their government encourages the people to go anti-China and pro-independance without highlighting the consequences to the people. In the end if a war breaks out it sure as hell won't be the government that'll be doing all the dying, and if Taiwan decides to go all the way China *will* have to intervene. Taiwan is really lucky China hasn't done anything for all these years, and they should be happy with that and not demand for more. The fault in this case does NOT lie with China, they might have many faults but this Taiwan issue is not on of them. The ball's in Taiwan's court and they're not very good with it.

I think the US would see a move on Taiwan as a move on US interest in Asia...not that that in itself is right. Just how I would see the US react....

 

[Pochacco]

How can you hate an entire country?

 

[Saturnman]

Taiwan's fate has been sealed when the US normalize relations with China during the Nixon era.

 

[Blackace]

Taiwan's fate has been sealed when the US normalize relations with China during the Nixon era.

Wow...that sure took a long time to unfold..

 

[NetMapel]

I'm a Taiwanese and I can tell you guys right now that the younger generation of Taiwanese don't really consider themselves as "Chinese". The older generation are the ones who escaped from China during the civil war, so of course they consider themselves Chinese. Taiwan is in the process of changing its names from "China" to "Taiwan". IE: China Airline is actually the national Taiwanese airline. They are proposing a name change from "China Airline" to something like "Taiwan Airline".

Either way, it would be ridiculous for a democratic society such as Taiwan to merge with communist China. How would the Taiwanese think about that ? How would you people in a democratic society think when you see another democratic society being merged into a communist society ? The "One country, two rules" or whatever system that China has with Hong Kong is a joke, as you can see after the HK leader resignation recently. The nature of the Chinese communist party is to consume and absorb, they don't want "diversity".

 

[duckroll]

ummm... no... Taiwan has changed hands a few times. But they are an independant country now.

Taiwan is independant country in the sense that they are self-reliant. But they are not recognized as an independant nation by the world court or world organizations. That's what I meant.

You wouldn't happen to be Chinese by any chance?

Sorry if this is blunt. I don't mean anything by it... I just have seen this reaction a lot from Chinese people when Taiwan's as a free country comes up..

Well, I'm Chinese as far as race is concerned, but I'm not Chinese by nationality. I'm in Singapore, so if here in South-east Asia if a war breaks out between China and Taiwan we're just as fucked as far as economic and security concerns go. I'm not siding China as a country btw, I don't like them anymore than most people that enjoy human rights and freedom do, but come on have you seen the Taiwanese government talk? They're almost asking for it sometimes. -_-

 

[Phoenix]

Sorry to burst your bubble but if China attacked Taiwan, no country in the world would do a thing. No one legally recognizes Taiwan as an independant nation because they are NOT. This has nothing to do with how you feel about China or Taiwan on their own, but Taiwan has zero right as an "independant" country. Maybe you should read up a little of history about Taiwan and China before you side either side.

False!

U.S. OBLIGED TO ASSIST TAIWAN IN SELF-DEFENSE: SCHRIVER

2004-02-07 21:59:55

Washington, Feb. 7 (CNA) The United States is obliged to assist Taiwan in defending its national security even though the two countries don't have a defense treaty, a U.S. State Department official said Friday.

Randall G. Schriver, deputy assistant secretary of state for East Asia and Pacific affairs, made the remarks while testifying at a hearing held by the U.S.-China Economic and Security Commission, which was set up by the U.S. Congress in 2000 to regularly review the impact of U.S.-China economic and trade relations on U.S. national security as well as on the effective execution of the Taiwan Relations Act.

During the hearing, Patrick Mulloy, a commission member, said it seems to him that Taiwan doesn't perceive the military threat from mainland China because it has so far not purchased any weapons the Bush administration offered to sell some three years ago. He also said the United States doesn't have formal obligation to defend Taiwan.

In reply, Schriver said although the United States does not have a defense treaty with Taiwan, it has obligations to help Taiwan in self-defense under the Taiwan Relations Act-- the U.S. law that regulates relations with Taiwan in the absence of diplomatic ties. "The Taiwan Relations Act not only talks about providing weapons for sufficient self-defense, there's two other operative elements: one, we have an obligation to maintain the capacity to resist force if asked to do so; and number two, if there is a threat to the people on Taiwan, the president would consult with Congress to determine appropriate action," Schriver said, adding: "That's not a defense treaty, but there are some very important obligations there."

Schriver also said he doesn't think that Taiwan doesn't see mainland China's threat. "I don't think it's that Taiwan doesn't see a threat or they don't agree with us on the threat. I think it's a bit more complicated than that. But they are having some difficulties with how they make the resourcing decisions and how they make discreet decisions along the way to address the threat. But I think there is an appreciation of the threat among the military and among the leadership there," he explained.

(By Jorge Liu and Sofia Wu)

Enditem

Don't expect the US to sit in the corner if this comes to pass. We have a permanent carrier battlegroup presence in the region for a reason.

 

[Blackace]

False!



Don't expect the US to sit in the corner if this comes to pass. We have a permanent carrier battlegroup presence in the region for a reason.

I live in Japan and the boats are out now... and on alert. Like I said before, if Taiwan isn't the US' interest in Asia it is too close to what is...

 

[Saturnman]

Wow...that sure took a long time to unfold..

China won't back down over the Taiwan issue, they may bide their time, but they will get that territory, just like they got Macao and HK. Recognizing China at the expense of Taiwan was a realistic and strategic move during the Cold War, but it still meant that the US backed down and really favored China over Taiwan. And with the massive amount of Western investment in China, there's even less interest in waging war on the mainland.

The US still doesn't want China to invade Taiwan, they still favor stability and they are not eager to see China grow stronger, but when China chooses its time to push forward to Taiwan, the US won't push back. There's really not much they can do about it.

Japan would be a completely different story though.

 

[videogamer]

That's not the only issue, they don't consider themselves Taiwan, they also consider themselves the RIGHTFUL China. Since they were a bunch of losers in the civil war that ran off to a piece of land owned by China in all the chaos and declared themselves legitimite there. How does that sound now?

If anything, the country is moving away from that, as NetMapel has noted. If they declare independence, which you seem to abhor, then they probably won't be calling themselves the "RIGHTFUL China" anymore.

Soybean: Do Vietnamese still have animosity toward the Chinese because of their history of Vietnamese occupation? I assume you live in the US, and maybe the the attention is more toward the Communists?

 

[Azih]

But really, could you actually stand to have a place called Jesus Land?

Only because the United States of Canada would kick all kinds of ass as a nation.


Saturnman: I know that's why I added the disclaimer.


duckroll: basically what you're saying is that the ball is in Taiwan's court and if they do anything except what China wants them to do with it then they're being arrogant and ignorant? Please.

 

[Willco]

China sucks. They are always jocking the US' cock, but you can't walk tall if your piece is small.

 

[Blackace]

China won't back down over the Taiwan issue, they may bide their time, but they will get that territory, just like they got Macao and HK. Recognizing China at the expense of Taiwan was a realistic and strategic move during the Cold War, but it still meant that the US backed down and really favored China over Taiwan. And with the massive amount of Western investment in China, there's even less interest in waging war on the mainland.

The US still doesn't want China to invade Taiwan, they still favor stability and they are not eager to see China grow stronger, but when China chooses its time to push forward to Taiwan, the US won't push back. There's really not much they can do about it.

Japan would be a completely different story though.

The US will not allow it..good or bad... the US will put their finger in the pie and we know it... how deep in the pie remains to be seen

 

[Soybean]

Soybean: Do Vietnamese still have animosity toward the Chinese because of their history of Vietnamese occupation? I assume you live in the US, and maybe the the attention is more toward the Communists?

The attention is definitely more on the Communists. Some are so hardline that they get pissed when fellow Vietnamese Americans go back to Vietnam to visit. They also don't want the U.S. to normalize relations with their former homeland. Still some very bad, very raw feelings from all the killing and torturing. But increasingly (as far as I can tell) people are visiting Vietnam and things are pretty cool. I don't live around a large Vietnamese community, though, so I don't have my finger on the pulse so to speak.

 

[NetMapel]

Duckroll
What's happening now with China/Taiwan is a classic and on-going example on China's oppression of human rights. Do you still hear England telling US and Canada to be governed under their British rules ? No, because even though we speak English and have similiar culture, we are ultimately different since we have been seperated for long enough. It's the same case with Taiwan and China. Taiwan has governed itself excellently while under the constant fear of being invaded by China. Also, if you want to talk about history, let me tell you that Taiwan still WASN'T on the official map of China back in the last dynasty in China. It is only after a group of defeacto went to China did the dynasty started even noticing Taiwan, and eventually conqured it. Then afterward, WWII broke out and what's one of the thing that China gave up after being dominated by Japan ? Taiwan of course. Yeah, that really shows a lot of caring from our "motherland".

Yes, the consequences of declaring independance (which Taiwan won't be doing for quite a while) is most likely an all-out war. But the consequences of MERGING WITH CHINA is we get our freedom screwed. As I have said before, the "One country, two system" thing is clearly not working for Hong Kong, and there is no evidence that suggest that the system will work well for Taiwan. Hong Kong's freedom is slowly being stripped away as top Hong Kong-nese officials are being replaced with pro-Chinese people, or mainland Chinese themselves. In the future, Hong Kong will not be able to enjoy the degree of freedom which they enjoy now.

 

[duckroll]

If anything, the country is moving away from that, as NetMapel has noted. If they declare independence, which you seem to abhor, then they probably won't be calling themselves the "RIGHTFUL China" anymore.

Right, notice I keep talking about the Taiwanese government still in power now and not the people. The youth in Taiwan know what's happening, they're not stupid, but it would really suck if they all died before they can make any difference.

duckroll: basically what you're saying is that the ball is in Taiwan's court and if they do anything except what China wants them to do with it then they're being arrogant and ignorant? Please.

No, the ball's in their court on how to resolve this situation without continuing to piss China off on purpose by their government's arrogant press statements and comments. It would do the situation no good at all by doing that, because they have no upper hand at the moment. China attacks and China will win. There's no question at all. China isn't attacking because it's not worth the bloodshed at the moment but if Taiwan continues to act as if they can say whatever they want with no consequences they're wrong because China has pride too and eventually the pride will outvalue the prevention of bloodshed. Realities of our harsh imperfect human world.

 

[videogamer]

Right, notice I keep talking about the Taiwanese government still in power now and not the people. The youth in Taiwan know what's happening, they're not stupid, but it would really suck if they all died before they can make any difference.

Isn't the Taiwanese government in charge right now leaning toward independence? If not exactly independence, but making appeals to it? Also, the claims to the whole China: Isn't it an artifact of Taiwanese history (Kuomintang more precisely) rather than what the government actually says today?

 

[Saturnman]

As I have said before, the "One country, two system" thing is clearly not working for Hong Kong, and there is no evidence that suggest that the system will work well for Taiwan. Hong Kong's freedom is slowly being stripped away as top Hong Kong-nese officials are being replaced with pro-Chinese people, or mainland Chinese themselves. In the future, Hong Kong will not be able to enjoy the degree of freedom which they enjoy now.

Did you really expect liberties to be maintained? And China only has to maintain that semblance of two systems for a little over 40 years now. Afterwards, they can completely drop the pretense.

 

[duckroll]

I think I need to make it really clear so there are no misunderstandings. I'm not pro-China, and I don't think anyone is here. I'm completely aware of how the one country two systems (BULLSHIT!) thing isn't working out for Hong Kong at all. There's zero chance it'll work for Taiwan too. In a perfect world, Taiwan can be independant now and China would lose nothing. The problem here is that the actual issues are more complicated and simply pushing for independance head-on and shoving it in China's face isn't going to solve the situation at all. If China just lets Taiwan go without a fight, Macau and Hong Kong would attempt to break free to since an example has been set.

What then? Sure you can say "but they SHOULD be seperate from China too!", but what would that say about China? That they have no power and authority over their own islands. Pride is also a huge issue here, along with a bunch of political crap. It just won't go over well in any way. Saying "Yeah let's support a war against China" is the dumbest solution ever unless everyone who says that are the ones on the front line fighting China. It's easy to encourage and support military action when you're not involved.

 

[Azih]

youth in Taiwan know what's happening, they're not stupid, but it would really suck if they all died before they can make any difference.

The youth are the ones that keep on electing the agitating pro independance government though from what I know. And you must note that the government that China finds so annoying doesn't harp on the 'ONE TRUE CHINA' thing, it harps on the 'WE'RE TAIWANESE, INDEPENDENT!' mantra.

No, the ball's in their court on how to resolve this situation without continuing to piss China off on purpose by their government's arrogant press statements and comments.

The thing is the only way to not piss off China would be the either a) the status quo (maintaining the two China propoganda but not doing anything else) or b) capitulation. Both of these things are not exactly acceptable to young Taiwanese.

Edit: So yeah I'm blaming the young Taiwanese in here not the pro independance government, because hell the pro independance government has to get elected by SOMEBODY and it's the youth doing it.

 

[Kola]

Yes, the consequences of declaring independance (which Taiwan won't be doing for quite a while) is most likely an all-out war. But the consequences of MERGING WITH CHINA is we get our freedom screwed. As I have said before, the "One country, two system" thing is clearly not working for Hong Kong, and there is no evidence that suggest that the system will work well for Taiwan. Hong Kong's freedom is slowly being stripped away as top Hong Kong-nese officials are being replaced with pro-Chinese people, or mainland Chinese themselves. In the future, Hong Kong will not be able to enjoy the degree of freedom which they enjoy now.

I'm currently living in HK and that's the exact same opinion I've got. "One country, two systems" or "Unity in Diversity" (which is paradox in itself) won't work. Although China due to the Sino-British agreement isn't allowed to change the political, social or economic system till 2047 changes are occuring. If China doesn't change alot during those years (which may be possible due to economic growth) than HK, Macao and perhaps Taiwan will get sucked in and get parts of their Human Rights stripped apart.

Concerning the case of HK, the British didn't have much options, as the New Territories would be part of China again anyway while Kowloon and HK Island where "forever British. But China would just have cut off their watersupply (and other necessary needs of the rest of HK), so they had a good lever there.

Regarding Taiwan they only got force. If you read the Chinese secession-law you just want to throw up - it's disgusting.

 

[Draff]

they have no power and authority over their own islands.

Well, what authority or power do they have right now in Taiwan (outside of threats)?

 

[DonasaurusRex]

The US will defend Taiwan if china blatantly tries to invade it, thats why we sell them weapons and ballistic missles ;-) . Taiwan will have to be taken on the negotiating table or it wont be taken unless destroyed. Its not like HK where it was a lease for 99 years.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

It's the Cold War after the Cold War; there's no way in hell red China would do anything outwardly aggressive to Taiwan and rile the US...not so much militarily, but economically. There's no point in owning vast technological and manufacturing power if your biggest trading partner has you blacklisted.

 

[Blackace]

The US will defend Taiwan if china blatantly tries to invade it, thats why we sell them weapons and ballistic missles ;-) . Taiwan will have to be taken on the negotiating table or it wont be taken unless destroyed. Its not like HK where it was a lease for 99 years.

old lame weapons...but weapons at least

 

[Tsubaki]

You westerners are the most ignorant people on the planet.

 

[Blackace]

You westerners are the most ignorant people on the planet.

enlighten us please oh wise one

 

[Boogie]

You westerners are the most ignorant people on the planet.

Sounds like we've got a winner here.

 

[DarienA]

You westerners are the most ignorant people on the planet.

Arrogance meter climbing....

 

[Tsubaki]

enlighten us please oh wise one

It's a sad sad day when someone posts that Taiwan is Chinese property, and then they're lambasted and then labeled with the obligatory, "You must be Chinese..."

That is ignorance and that is arrogance.

I am ethnically Chinese. My father is from China. My mother is from Hong Kong. But I lived in California all my life, so my social upbringing is more Western than Eastern.

One part of me wants to see Taiwan be its own country. They are self-governed really, and a looming larger entity will only be a hindrance to them. I had the same feelings of Hong Kong, especially as it was handed back to China a few years ago.

But there's a bigger picture. Taiwan has never been recognized politically as its own nation, and no one but Taiwan will push for that. Does it make it right? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not to say. But the fact remains. Taiwan IS China's.

As much as we'd like to identify with the Taiwanese, at what degree do we stop? Wars are fought every single day in the name of freedom, in the name of sovereignty. At what lengths do you concede to that? Are you the judge to determine that this locale should have its own independence, and that this people group should not?

There is no easy answer.