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[Uno Ill Nino]

Not talkin' about home porno either. Though that DOES have it's place.

Seriously though, anybody here made a short film or a documentary? When I heard that Napoleon Dynamite started as a short film on the internet, then got noticed by the right people and made into a feature film, I realized that I have some hilarious ideas that I really need to capture on film. My friend and I figure that if we can put together a really good 10 minute short film, something might come out of it.

That said, neither of us know the first thing about what equipment we will need to acquire for this, or where we could even host the video on the net. That's really not a pressing issue at the moment though as I am still writing the script right now. This is sort of a long-term project for us. I guess we're just looking for any and all info/advice from others. Thanks in advance!

 

[teiresias]

The best way to get the feel for how to cut a film together is just to do it. Meaning, don't worry about having the best equipment, get some cheapo $300 DV camera, some affordable editing software and just do it. Sitting around until you have "the right equpiment" just ends up in you never doing it.

I tried to take as many film classes as I could during my undergrad degree (being in engineering made it hard though), and I really got into the technical side of real film. That is, using Super8 or 16mm and actually dealing with physical film. I loved sitting in the room for six hours doing nothing but splicing together film and viewing it on the previewer and piecing together my short. It was very fulfilling. However, getting Super8 (which I really like) developed is a major pain the butt nowadays, and if you just want to get the experience of actually putting together a film from a storytelling point of view go with video - much more accessible right now, you just won't get as much experience in the technicalities of actually filming on real film.

 

[Ecrofirt]

paging Dr. Goodcow

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

I've made two short films, both for school projects.

in '98 I did Craig & Dacian vs the Cloned Ninjas.
and in '02 I made the sequel Cloned Ninja Revenge.

I didn't know shit about shit while making the first film, which is rife with footage from American Ninja 2, but we lucked out by having a professional editor string it all together for us at the last minute. The movie mainly sucks, but it's often funny because it sucks.

While making CNR I still didn't know shit about shit, but I knew to avoid most of the pitfalls of the first film's producton. So basically there's a lot of unecessary camera angles to break up longer scenes; people have no attention span these days. We shot CNR digitally, so I did all the editing myself, and it's a much better film. It still basically sucks though, because even I don't know exactly where the plot is going. It is a lot funnier though.

One heartbreak during the second film was fuckers claiming that they got the shot during some complex sequence on a tight shoot, and at the last minute I find that the footage isn't there. So the final confrontation (which was parred down from my original idea considerably) ends up making no goddamn sense.

A third and final movie is slated to start production "god knows when."

Two things I've learned about amatuer actors who are coerced into doing these films.

1. No matter how profusely they swear they will keep their arms behind their backs, to pretend that they are tied up, they will not keep their promise. In two films I was fucked over by two co-stars. Thanks, shitheads. Tie their damn hands.

2. Beware of people who alternate between glasses and contacts. They will forget what they are suppose to wear, and you'll be to busy stressing about everything else to notice. Then you've got a fucker whose glasses appear and disappear of his face every fucking scene. People are lazy, so just force them to wear the glasses and be done with it.

 

[Dan]

Yes.

To be brief and vague, I've done a good deal of grip and gaffing work for professional shoots. Most recently I worked on a documentary that will eventually air on PBS.

I should be buying a $20,000 Sony DVCAM shortly (within a couple weeks), along with tons of necessities, and I'll be helming some high quality shorts and maybe a feature in the near-term.

In the long haul, I'm most interested in cinematography. It's the lighting and composition and all that which most intrigues me. I also intend on experimenting with stop-motion animation.

 

[Duck of Death]

For short films, I like to keep the production small and try to do just about everything myself. In other words, try to make something without the need for actors or even dialogue. Starting out like this helps you learn the process and experiment with form.

Also, just for fun, try making a scratch film. A scratch film is simply when you take some 16mm black leader (the stuff that is placed at the beginning and end of the film so you have some room before the film begins) and scratch off the emulsion. You can also use Sharpies and bleach to create really cool color effects. 1 minute is about 38 feet of 16mm leader/film. By doing this, you really get a feeling or appreciation of working on a film by hand. It is a tedious process, but it is rewarding.

 

[teiresias]

Working with actual film is a good experience, but unless he's able to do something through school I wonder if he has access to 16mm projection equipment, etc. The reason I liked Super8 is because my grandparents had a ton of Super8 equipment left over - projector, splicer, etc. - that they let me have, so I had the equipment to actually work with it and view it afterwards.

 

[Richiban]

Agreed with film. If you have the resources, give it a shot. As mentioned, its sometimes tedious work, but again, very rewarding.

The key is to practise, practise, practise. Don't be afraid to experiment, and quite often having no money to do projects is a good thing. It will force you to be creative in any obstacles you encounter. Find your style, and run with it. I've done dozens of shorts, and while the first few were pretty terrible, you'll notice a vast improvement as you go along and learn how you like to do things.

Don't emulate anyone, and just be yourself.

When looking through the camera lens, always ask yourself; "Is this shot interesting to the viewer." IF you are bored with the shot, your audience will be bored with the shot.

Most of all, have fun. If it's not fun for you anymore, don't do it.

 

[goodcow]

Alright well, let me begin to ramble on here...

I got my first camcorder, VHS-C, for fifth grade. Then I got an 8mm, and later a Digital8. I currently go to Hunter College for Film, and work for CUNY doing video editing with higher end camcorders and DVD authoring.

That being said, I don't really want to go on making feature length films... I'm not exactly sure what I'd like yet really. I think I'd be more happy in the future doing documentaries, sitcoms, or possibly even broadcasting... many have suggested I go into broadcasting.

I have an old but workhorse camcorder, the Sony DCR-TRV310. I'd like to get the new Sony HDRFX1, but it's $3500... (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...id=I3ONPPRAUL67V7&v=glance&colid=6VHWLFFX0TRD)

Right now everything I shoot is basically for fun, with very minimal planning. I started out with my camcorder taping my own wrestling league matches with friends, then video yearbooks to compete with the A/V squad in middle school because the teacher who ran it was an asshole, and I also put together short little talk shows and movies at the Saturday program at my middle school as well, which was a magnet school. I eventually started making little things like Metal Cow Solid, Sad TV skits, The Corrugator, Problem Resolvers series, etc.

Every time I seem to write something, it never gets taped, even though those who see it love the script. So I just don't bother. Part of this is because my immediate friends aren't dedicated enough to tape stuff, they really just want to have a fun day, and if it isn't finished at the end of the day, it never will be. (i.e. The Corrugator)

In the end, jump into making short films and have fun. You don't need all sorts of expensive equipment if you're starting out, or just trying to see how things work. I still don't have expensive equipment... now of course if I managed to get my friends to dedicate themselves to filming a thirty minute or longer movie, I'd buy an expensive camera... but until then, my old Digital8 is doing fine.

Also keep in mind about a minute of decent to good footage could take up to an hour to shoot if you want lots of quick cutting. It takes a lot of time and patience. For reference, The Corrugator took about three hours to shoot for 4min 30sec, and Metal Cow Solid 2 took about three hours for three minutes, but that's mainly because it involved stuffed animal cows.

For editing on a Mac, of course use Final Cut. For the PC, use Adobe Premiere Pro.

Film vs. Digital... well I'm going to have to start shooting on film in about two semesters at Hunter... until then no, I've had no experience doing it. I really don't have a desire to shoot film when I can easily shoot digital either, but maybe I'll fall in love with film when the time comes.

One of your biggest obstacles will be getting good sound. Get a good tripod or somebody with a steady hand to avoid hand creaks and similar noises if you can't get sound from a source other than the internal camera mic.

Also, I don't know your friends, but don't assume you're going to get something lengthy done unless everyone is really dedicated. It'll usually end in disappointment. You might want to start off doing shorter things, especially in the begining to test ideas out, cinematography, sound, editing techniques, and then expand on them.

For a Microsoft Word screenplay template, download this:
http://www.goodcowfilms.com/web/BLANK SCREENPLAY WITH TEMPLATE.doc

To view some of my short films:
http://www.goodcowfilms.com/films/

If you have anything specific to ask, feel free.

 

[Richiban]

GoodCow:

Broadcasting is a completely different monster, however I love it.

That's currently what I do now. I would recommend it, if only for a few years. It's nice because you get access to some pretty neat technology in broadcasting, sometimes technology that isn't accessable anywhere else.

 

[Uno Ill Nino]

Thanks for the help so far, guys.

I don't go to a school, I work a full-time job, and all the equipment I have are the ideas in my head. That's it. I was wondering if doing this would even be possible for me because I wasn't willing to go spend $2,000.00 on a camera, etc. So when tieresias said:

don't worry about having the best equipment, get some cheapo $300 DV camera, some affordable editing software and just do it.

I was like, "Oh goodie! Maybe I CAN do this.". So that's where I'm at right now.

I realize my friends can't be counted on much but that's okay. I only need minimal acting from them and I'll be acting most of the parts myself. What I have in mind can be done with 2 or 3 main characters and just a small handful of extras.

I guess I also like to write ideas down so I don't forget them. This film I want to make has YEARS of material built up for it. It will practically write itself, but I need to make sure I don't forget anything that might be really hilarious, y'know? Cuz something that happened 2 years ago could easily slip from memory if I don't keep tabs on it. So that's why I write. I used to be in a metal band also (lead vocals) so I'm very much in the habit of writing down ideas like that.

But thanks for all the help so far guys. I read everything you all wrote and its nice to have some guidance. I'm on the GAF every day so I'll keep you guys updated on my progress.

 

[Doth Togo]

Paging I Heart Sluts.......

(FYI, he's pursuing his Masters in Film in CA.)

 

[goodcow]

GoodCow:

Broadcasting is a completely different monster, however I love it.

That's currently what I do now. I would recommend it, if only for a few years. It's nice because you get access to some pretty neat technology in broadcasting, sometimes technology that isn't accessable anywhere else.

Well actually when I'm told to go into broadcasting they suggest it in terms of being in-front of the camera, not behind it, as I would apparently make a good reporter. Now I can't really see myself behind the desk reporting on news, but I can easily see myself being an investigative news reporter, harassing people on camera. I also apparently have a good voice for radio. *shrug*

 

[i heart sluts]

agreed.. start with a mini dv cam. It's cheap and you can experiment to your hearts content. Dealing with actual film might be too much for you right now... since getting film would be expensive and then you would have to deal with exposure and light meter stuff. Then you would have to take it to a lab to get it processed. Then you have to edit the damn thing!

Also with film, you'll have to get something to record all your sound on.. That would entail either getting a DAT recorder and then you would need a boom mike and a boom and then you'd have to sync all your sound to your footage. way too much for a beginner.

So yeah, start out with mini dv cam. That way you can just import your shit into your computer and edit it using Adobe Premiere or Avid Express. I think both companies provide a student discount.... or you can just get it by other means if you dont have the cash.

 

[i heart sluts]

Film vs. Digital... well I'm going to have to start shooting on film in about two semesters at Hunter... until then no, I've had no experience doing it. I really don't have a desire to shoot film when I can easily shoot digital either, but maybe I'll fall in love with film when the time comes.

Film just looks cooler cuz of the whole 24 fps thing. So you'll film your stuff and get it back after processing and you'll be amazed how better it looks than digital.

Only problem with it is that it takes considerably more time to set up shots. You have to take light readings, make sure you have your lens filters in (Depending on what you want to do), make sure all the little nuances of the film camera are working right (such as cleaning the gate, focusing the diopter to your eye...etc)... big pain in the ass.

When in digital you can just point and shoot, thus, getting way more coverage. With film, ever shot counts cuz you'll have a set amount of film and film is expensive to buy and process.

 

[Warm Machine]

Film just looks cooler cuz of the whole 24 fps thing. So you'll film your stuff and get it back after processing and you'll be amazed how better it looks than digital.

You can rent 24 FPS progressive scan 16:9 aspect DV cameras such as the Canon XL2. My biggest recommendation to anyone who ever shoots digital, or otherwise, is the job isn't done after shooting or editing. The job is done in post production and color correction.

Film has a different contrast range than digital. It usually darkens the blacks and punch up the whites for more contrast. The gamma curve on digital needs to resemble as shallow "S"to achieve this effect. As well, running through a warming or cooling filter helps gives the image some better color and texture. The labourious way of doing this would be to pull a frame and setup an automated action in photoshop. Other software such as Adobe Premier have some really nice image adjustment and enhancement tools.

As far as the shooting is concerned, watch any movie and time out how long the average shot is. Most people make the mistake of setting the camera up and doing long takes, mostly filled with uncomfortable silence. Best thing possible would be to run 2 or 3 cameras at a time for coverage and edit between them. If you only have 1 camera prepare to have you actors run over the scenes 5 or more times so you can do all the setups you need. If your shots are runng 5 or 6 seconds for 3 seconds of dialouge start chopping away.

Lock the aperature! The floating aperature is what gives DV productions away immediately. Try to use a really low setting too as crisp focus from to back looks old fashioned and amateur. You may need a Neutral Density filter to achieve the effect and limit the amount of light entering the camera (DV cameras are extremely sensitive to light). As well, always try to shoot 1/30th of a second or 1/24th of a second. Going higher makes everything look too smooth. Going higher than smooth results in strobing which can look cool much like the battles in Saving Private Ryan or the zombie creatures in 28 Days Later (which was shot on a Canon XL1 DV camera)

To make anything look really tight, you need to get some equipment like a steadycam harness or similar or dolly or something. If not, base your movie or concept around tri-pod shots or shakey cam because that is all you got. Much like the Blair Witch, they made a movie around what they could do, not make a movie they could never pull off.