demigod
Member
I'm sure your overlords would love that, but it ain't happening, green rat.
bender
What time is it?
LordBritish
Member
Apple is a greedy ass company.. and I am in their ecosphere.. o well
reinking
Gold Member
As opposed to who? Google? Microsoft? Sony? Nintendo? Nvidia?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
But it's not greedy to try and force a company or store to host your content and give them nothing in return for it? One that makes billions themselves from said content?
They're both cunts.
demigod
Member
You sure jumped to conclusions pointing fingers at Apple, it's never Epic thats bad amirite?
They basically screwed their paying customers by shutting it down and blaming Apple, again.
Schmendrick
Member
God what an utterly retarded assessment...
Apple's "rules" have now officially been found to be highly anti-competitive... twice....which everyone already knew even before that.
And there STILL are people stupid enough to
defend this stuff....
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Power Pro
Member
I'll never understand Epic's personal vendetta with Apple on this, when they're perfectly fine having the game on other closed systems like Playstation, Xbox, and Switch. When you buy v-bucks on those systems, it still uses their storefront, and we know they take a cut as well. So what's the deal? Why aren't they going to court with all of them and demanding they allow purchasing currency without them taking a cut?
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Epic are always bad.
That's the thing, Apple had Epic pretty much beat, Epic looked like fools in the original case. All Apple had to was be semi-reasonable, instead they went with 27% processing fee on out of app purchases precisely to make them pointless then lied about it in court. They slap on a 15% processing fee and they wouldn't have got caught in their lies - and no-one would have really bothered with out of app purchases.
I'm not saying Apple are bad but that they made a tactical error, and they seem to be doubling down on it, and Epic are going out of their way to highlight it.
Not_A-Cop_Maybe
Member
demigod
Member
Doubling down on what? Epic is the one that is sneaky trying to slide in the US submission. They got caught again so they shut down their own game meanwhile pointing the blame at Apple.
mayham2199
Member
I don't know that attorney Hoeg made it sound like the Judge is out of line here and that Apple didn't do anything wrong. Seems they found a loophole in the judges verdict and the judge got pissed\emotional about the whole thing.
Amazing how many people are ignoring this. Epic just removed their game from EU all by themselves. Apple blocked nothing. They tried to submit the game to the US store despite having a banned account there and got caught red handed. And the only reason they are banned in the first place is because they knowingly violated the ToS. Funny how nobody else is banned by Apple. Just Epic.
Dr.Morris79
Member
Two companies fighting I wouldnt piss on if they were on fire
xrnzaaas
Member
I have no idea what Roblox is... and I still don't want to know.
Effigenius
Member
….just like last time, right? Oh wait…..
delishcaek
Member
Apple won the first lawsuit, they won on almost all accounts. The one point they lost on was the fee bullshit for sales made outside the AppStore, Apple wasn't allowed to do that anymore.
However Apple pretty much ignored that ruling as they kept on imposing this tax for the past 3 years and this is what Epic sued them on again and this is the lawsuit Apple predictably lost earlier this year.
This had nothing to do with getting the game back on the AppStore, no one can force Apple to host software they don't want on their store. Kinda like no one can force Microcenter to sell something they don't want in their stores.
Epic has the option to host their own store on iOS (at least outside the US), though. They can have Fortnite there.
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
Effigenius
Member
You said Apple wouldn't do something unless they had an airtight legal case, then acknowledge they went against a court ruling for 3 years and "predictably" lost. Which disproves your own statement.
delishcaek
Member
No I said nothing, I simply explained to you what happened and why Apple lost.
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March Climber
Member
All this means is that Roblox won.
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decisions
Member
Epic thinks people are not smart enough to notice their deception. Steam, PS, Xbox, and Nintendo all have a 30% charge. We may not like it, but it's the industry standard. Apple is arguably the most justified in doing this because they built the hardware, OS, and secure payment system.
Under the guise of noble egalitarianism, they simply want to create a legal precedent which says that you have to allow EGS on any computing platform. They just want to put EGS on iOS so that they can charge some < 30% fee, while offering the same trash experience that they do on other platforms on EGS, which has failed to compete with other storefronts because it sucks.
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ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
still slightly better
slightly
but also minecraft, which is rewarding and something we encouraged our son to play over braindead loops like fortnite
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Comandr
Member
This whole Epic Vs. Apple saga has been a farce. I find it hilarious that Sweeney has the energy to have this personal vendetta against Cook instead of - you know- investing his time and energy inward into creating a better product, a better service, that not only customers but companies like Apple would love to have in their pockets. After all of Sweeney's slimeball tactics, I can't believe anyone has any faith in him at all as a CEO.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I dont think that is what happened. They lost on the ability for app makers to add links within their app to purchase things external to the store. So Epic were allowed to include a link saying 'hey you can buy fortnite points on our store you dont have to buy them directly through Apple'
Then Apple introduced a 27% processing fee for products purchased outside the store - and then an executive lied under oath about how and why that decision was made to make it seem like it wasn't just to completely neuter that original ruling.
The judge found out that they lied and forbid them from charging the 27% fee.
This is where it gets murky as we still have he said she said bullshit from Apple and Epic.
I think at this point Epic tried to force the issue and bring Fortnite back to the US store via their EU developer account as Apple had suspended their US account (but probably they suspended it for breaking the ToS on having in app links that the court says they are allowed). Apple blocked Epic from using their EU account to bring the game to the US, which blocked it from being published in the EU as well. Epic could remove the attempt to publish in the US using the EU account but are again forcing the issue by keeping the two tied together. So Apple is blocking the game in both the US and EU, but Epic is deliberately not altering their submission to allow it to still be available in the EU.
I may have got some of the vagaries wrong but I think that is the jist, I'm a little confused on the way Epic was trying to publish the game in the US with an EU developer account.
Unknown Soldier
Member
To be fair, they have been fighting for years now about this, so it's more like Let Them Continue to Fight
crazepharmacist
Member
I don't understand why Epic is so butt hurt over Apple's closed ecosystem. Literally every platform (steam, PSN, Xbox) takes 30% of the profit when you sell a game there. It's Apple's ecosystem, they have a right to charge whatever they want. If you don't like it, don't sell on their platform.
Haint
Member
Sweeney seems to think 30% is too much, but that's not their real beef with them and isn't the basis of any of their suits. Their real issue is that Apple controls and takes a cut of transactions that have nothing to do with Apple or the App store, and prohibits developers from telling their customers they could subscribe/buy this stuff 30% cheaper on their own website (or otherwise linking to it). This is why you can't subscribe to Netflix on Apple devices, Apple demands a 30% cut of Netflix's subscription (meaning the $25 premium plan would cost customers $32 on Apple devices), and prohibits Netflix from warning customers Apple is surcharging them an extra $7, or linking to Netflix.com to sign up for $25.
Frankly it's astounding such practices were even allowed to continue this long, I can't believe all the other major service companies didn't joint petition the FTC to do something years ago, or collude and simultaneously pull everything off every Apple device, and bury Apple in trademark and IP theft suits when/if they published third party work around apps.
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I think that is cherry picking. Given that fortnite is f2p game. It uses apples platform but really has no incentive to use apple pay but get vbucks off store. No consumer is stupid enough to use apple pay if they can get it 30% cheaper from paypal in same app screen.
Also if netflix is so pissed about that why not just remove the app and use browser only. It's not like see any performance difference
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Jinxed
Member
You dont have to buy vbucks on those systems, you can just buy a card and convert it to one of these platforms. I doubt apple will let them do this
I've bought a shitload of vbucks in the last year and never bought them directly through sony, always through cards, it's cheaper
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darrylgorn
Member
Ok ok now do Roblox plz
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I never followed this case closely, but kind of know the jist of it.
And i support Apple.
There is no way, no how any store like Walmart selling a company's product would be ok with them circumventing buying it from Walmart, but instead steer them to pick it up from Walmart but pay the supplier direct. Or the supplier has a big sticker on it saying, dont buy from the store. But go to our website and order from us direct.
If you tried that shit, the retailer would immediately take your products off the shelf and you'd never get listings ever again.
Similar to buying from Walmart Online (or any other website). The product is available on their site, so it makes sense they get a cut if someone buys it. You get to buy online from WM and pay there and they get their cut. WM isnt going to let you click a button to buy and you get directed to the supplier's website to buy and pay there.
And i support Apple.
There is no way, no how any store like Walmart selling a company's product would be ok with them circumventing buying it from Walmart, but instead steer them to pick it up from Walmart but pay the supplier direct. Or the supplier has a big sticker on it saying, dont buy from the store. But go to our website and order from us direct.
If you tried that shit, the retailer would immediately take your products off the shelf and you'd never get listings ever again.
Similar to buying from Walmart Online (or any other website). The product is available on their site, so it makes sense they get a cut if someone buys it. You get to buy online from WM and pay there and they get their cut. WM isnt going to let you click a button to buy and you get directed to the supplier's website to buy and pay there.
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This.
The ruling said Apple had to partially open up certain parts of their ecosystem. It didn't say that Epic is correct and that Apple must allow them back on to the Apple App Store. Epic knowingly violating the terms of service and sued Apple. Each of those things you can contractually put in clauses to no longer do business together.
Epic is also free to run its own app storefront (like they are doing) to grab a platform holder portion of their commissions (which they are doing). They could also release their own phone and app storefront tied to that platform (not sure they've tried yet).
Apple are still dbags though and the harder they try and squeeze their hardware market influence to wring more onerous service / app profits the more likely the court is going to punish them (and it wouldn't surprise me if a court forces Apple to let Epic back into the platform).
Underrated comment. It's not one or the other here. Nobody calls Walmart a charity or benevolent wonder. If Epic had pulled that crap and got kicked out of Walmart nobody would bat an eye (nor turn 180 and claim Walmart a prince suddenly).
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Haint
Member
Iphones/Ipads have been ruled general computing devices and hold a majority of a defacto duopoly, which concerns world governments, and is why they keep losing these cases. Apple is controlling digital goods and services, not shampoo and diapers. Walmart already sells hundreds of different products that direct their customers to other storefronts, including when they still owned Vudu (i.e. consoles, streaming sticks/boxes, PCs, phones, tablets, etc...). The analogy you're actually looking for is if Microsoft tried to take a 30% cut of every digital good you interfaced with on a PC (i.e. took 30% of every Steam sale)--only in such a scenario, Steam (and every other reseller) would never have been allowed to exist at all, and MS would also be taking a 30% cut of your Adobe subscriptions, Quickbooks subscription, Dropbox subscription, etc...
Cherrypicking, LOLWAT? That's literally, verbatim, the complaints and basis of the Spotify and Epic suits against Apple.
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Paasei
Member
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Aren't we all adults pushing years? Shouldn't have you learned yet that technological products are tools and everyone picks them for a reason? Do you really wanna start a thread derail about why people prefer this or that?
It's like y'all never outgrew schoolyard console wars.
Sebastian1295
Member
Chukhopops
Member
There are significant differences but the most obvious one is that all those shops accept third-party keys (except Nintendo? Not sure).
Apple forces you to use their transaction system, pay ludicrous fees that would be absurd for transaction processing and prevents you from using third party shops.
I'm glad they got fucked over by the DMA.