FrontalMonk
Banned
Just pre-ordered a 32gb model, says it should deliver 11/2-11/4, which is fine by me. I just poked my head back in here wondering when it was going to come up, and then bam.
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Apple TV |OT|
- Thread starter wachie
- Start date
Zeyphersan
Banned
It's really the best movie service on the internet. I NEED ultraviolet to follow. Buying a Disney movie on blu-Ray basically entitles you to 7 copies (disc, DMA, iTunes, vudu, Google, Amazon, Microsoft)
family_guy
Member
For me this doesn't seem like a future proof device with the lack of 4k, so I wouldn't bother with it because I'll have a 4k tv within a year from now. Now the big question is if Apple will sit on this existing hardware for 3-4 years like the old model or will they do the annual upgrade so it's 4k capable next year.
Pro tip - you should be purchasing all digital content from Vudu.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Or buying the bluray and redeeming it on vudu. But recently I've been starting to just skip the middleman and buying it from them directly
FlyStarJay
Member
i hope the device is not annual. Maybe when 4k is main stream, release the 4k box with substantial upgrades
ummm ... what?
UltraViolet is the one that came up with this entire scheme ... Disney is the one copying them. The issue is Amazon, iTunes, etc. haven't sighned up. There were rumors of Amazon joining UV last year, but so far nothing has come of it.
It's weird, even companies like Verizon FiOS use UV for digital purchases on their DVRs / cable boxes.
Regardless, VUDU still remains the best service for purchases and playing back digital content in general. Best audio / video, and supports UV and DisneyAnywhere .
Why not?
No one is forcing you to purchase it every year ... and for those that want the incremental updates or don't happen to be buying at the same time as you, the newest tech is available to them.
Hell no. iTunes 4 lyfe.
HDMI CEC for auto switching? Would love for AirPlay to be built into TVs so you didn't need to be on a different input.
I think it makes sense for a new one every 2 years or so. Annual is too fast but the span between this one and the last one was dumb. I expect around the launch of the 7S we will get a new one with whatever CPU comes with the 7 and 4K support.
That would still be the same thing.
It would sense you are using Airplay and switch from whatever external input you're using to the internal processor. At that point you'd be stuck with the same problem ... you'd have to switch to an input to use anything that isn't built in.
It's still switching either way. But in your scenario there's no way to switch back automatically.
FlyStarJay
Member
why?
no one is forcing me. lol who said anyone was? you don't need to preach the obvious to me
if you are a disney vault guy, it actually "almost" makes the insane prices for Lion King 3D and Beauty and the Beast 3D worth it, as it entitles you to the HD versions of those movies on all services also (which have long since been pulled)
no idea. Hoping it's as good as PS4, which will switch back to the inputs (on TV and receiver) if you hit the PS button, even if the system is already turned on.. Hoping for something similar.. if like you're saying (automatically switching inputs on AirPlay)........ omg.. that would essentially be the GOAT for me... guess I'll find out next week (not paying $17 to maybe get it on Friday)
Got the Shakes
Member
Hmm. Wondering if I should just cancel my online order and try and snag one in store.
http://www.macrumors.com/2015/10/26/app-thinning-storage-apple-tv-details/
A good explanation of app thinning, with comments from devs.
In the size and types of games devs can have on app thinning (and thus apple tv 4), it's basically the same as it has always been.
the negative comment from the Binding of Isaac dev is interesting. iOS isn't required to use app thinning (yet? ever?) but tvOS is. So you probably have tons of games that are crazy popular or super far along in development, where slicing the app's bundles up might be a ton of work. This alone might cause some devs to pass on a tvOS version, even if the hardware is more than capable of handling the game. Apple's intent with app thinning is awesome... but 200MB might not be enough room in the base bundle for many game devs without a bunch of reworking.
A good explanation of app thinning, with comments from devs.
In the size and types of games devs can have on app thinning (and thus apple tv 4), it's basically the same as it has always been.
the negative comment from the Binding of Isaac dev is interesting. iOS isn't required to use app thinning (yet? ever?) but tvOS is. So you probably have tons of games that are crazy popular or super far along in development, where slicing the app's bundles up might be a ton of work. This alone might cause some devs to pass on a tvOS version, even if the hardware is more than capable of handling the game. Apple's intent with app thinning is awesome... but 200MB might not be enough room in the base bundle for many game devs without a bunch of reworking.
Depends on the tv. On my Sony if I send it a youtube video (it it DiAl compliant), it'll play it and then return to whatever state it was in
Unless if you're in the US where they don't release many of their movies in 3D anymore. Because here's the awesome thing I found out. If you import the Euro version to get the 3D, the code it comes with doesn't work with DisneyAnywhere in the US.
So basically you have to choose between 3D and digital if you don't want to double dip :\
Marty Chinn
Member
The negative comment is pretty much in line with my concerns. It seems problematic for games and problematic for people with bandwidth limitations such as caps. So there isn't some magic sauce that is being overlooked that makes this a non issue.
That's interesting, and makes sense for DiAL.
Not owning an iPhone/iPad, I'm not familiar enough with AirPlay. When you send a video, is it using a mechanism similar to DiAL / Chrome Casting, where the receiving device is actually launching the app / video / RSS? Or is doing mirroring. If it's the latter, how would a TV know when you are done?
The same thing holds true for TV's the support MiraCast from Android / WP devices. If you're doing an actual screen share, while the capability to automatically switch to it is possible ... it wouldn't know when to switch back until you actively turn off the casting.
FlyStarJay
Member
right back at you kiddo
infiniteloop
Member
just got charged for mine
Lol, except I didn't son.
FlyStarJay
Member
i have not been charged. my item is still being processed. I shall see what happens tomorrow
Dreamwriter
Member
Well, there is a kind-of "magic sauce" being overlooked, in that it only needs to redownload data for apps that you haven't used in a long time, and only then if your system storage is getting full. So it's not like you'll be playing a game, and then the next day have to redownload its data. As for developers, it's not actually all that hard to move assets onto the cloud, then check to see if they need downloading. Apple added easy API calls for downloading them (and Unity added support for it too, I assume other engines are following suit). Apple would like developers to change their development to separate their app into multiple small data chunks that are only loaded as needed, but you don't need to do it that way, you can still use just one big data chunk if you want, then your app runs exactly the same as it would nowadays.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple started requiring this "app thinning" for all iOS apps starting with iOS 10, like they started requiring 64-bit support this year.
Marty Chinn
Member
And when you play a game that needs to download something? That negatively impacts the game experience. You can't get around that. And none of that addresses data caps. So again, still unsolved real issues.
Only half correct. I posted earlier how the "on-demand" doesn't necessarily equate to "bandwidth heavy". If the app never releases the asset, it never gets purged. That part is trivial.
As for the second (first?) part.... It's a new experiment. Instead of deprecating certain hardware, or effectively splitting code bases, Apple IMHO is being relatively innovative with app slicing. It could fail, but if it succeeds it could be a model for backwards compatibility going forward for various systems while not being tied down to it completely ignoring the past. Only time will tell. Yes it's a burden on devs. But "in theory" can be pretty standardized if embraced (after a curve).
Except you will ALWAYS need to download said asset. That can't change. It's literally impossible. Whether downloading it in the app bundle or a resource bundle. In theory, aside from poor resources management, there's really only an upside to the end user. No downloading assets they don't need. On-demand doesn't mean "every time the launch". It just means outside of the app bundle. It can still persist on loca storage if the dev chooses it to. The tools are there to do so. You can't put that on Apple.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
For argument's sake, what did you intend your point to be?
Was it that you are selfish enough to hope that annual revisions are not available for anyone else simply because you won't buy them and you don't want to have tech that isn't the latest and greatest, or was it that you lack the willpower to not purchase the newest model every year should they go with annual iterations?
That would be an idiotic requirement on a portable device where a stable connection to the Internet cannot be guaranteed. Not even taking into consideration mobile data caps.
Not comparable at all to the 64-bit requirement.
Have to say that sounds like death to any kind of open world game.
Yeah. And I could see it as a way of Apple continuing to support low storage devices. But it is problematic given mobile data caps currently.
Anyway I pre-ordered one. Primarily I think out of frustration with my otherwise excellent AndroidTV device due to poor app support which I guess Apple won't have issue with.
Again, there is a ton of misinformation on app thinning. It has nothing to do with data caps to the end user. The texture will be 3.5MB to download whether in the app bundle or the resource bundle. It's up to the dev on when it's downloaded/purged/retained. The biggest issue with app thinning is for the devs. Arguably the user almost completely benefits from it. The devs however have to modify how they include resources in their apps.
The devs already have to do this across all platforms they develop for. The difference here is that they are doing multiple "platforms" inside of what was always just one "platform". Though most often still included 1x, 2x, and 3x assets on top of 16:9/mobile and 4:3/tablet views. The difference now is they have to build/flag these resource bundles instead of just including it in the .app.
??? Did you read the article? A dev can still retain the asset tags preventing purging (thus keeping all 20GB on local storage). The problem for devs is how they package assets with their apps. For the end user it's only as much of a pain as the devs make it. If they don't release a resource's tag it's never purged.
As a digital movie noob can you explain why?
I think some of the casual games made forbid might be good. Stuff like beat sports or wii sports type game. Most other games will probably be shit without a proper gamepad.
I wonder about the increased splintering of iOS with the ATV. I mean here you have a iOS device not constrained by battery life and you give it a crappier CPU/GPU than other current iOS devices and add to that its probably on a much slower upgrade cycle.
That would seem to make a crappier gaming experience compared to the iOS phones and tablets. Admittedly I imagine only a small slice of games would be pushing Apple hardware anyway.
Amazing that even when you post links in here, people STILL don't know how app thinning works.
TL;DR if you're a user don't worry about app thinning. It won't affect you. If you're a developer, yeah it's some extra work. The end result though should be a better experience for your users.
Also people are forgetting (or don't know) that this is how Android has worked from the start on Google Play.
TL;DR if you're a user don't worry about app thinning. It won't affect you. If you're a developer, yeah it's some extra work. The end result though should be a better experience for your users.
Also people are forgetting (or don't know) that this is how Android has worked from the start on Google Play.
Crappier? It's actually the same hardware as the Air 2 at the resolution of the 6 Plus. If anything it's the best Apple mobile hardware out shy of the 6s. Would hardly call that crappy.
Marty Chinn
Member
Sure, right now you download it in the initial download and you're done. I'm not suggesting you don't need to download something. I'm also not suggesting it happens every time at launch. I'm talking about the potential to encounter it randomly after a period of time is up and it wipes out the cache of data because it deems it too old. Now suddenly you load up that app or game, and you're hit with a download. That's a terrible end user experience, especially since they thought they had the app or game to begin with in the past.
Can it persist forever if the developer says so? If so, who is going to enable this auto delete cache then? I would think every developer would want to make sure their data is there without interruption.
Also of course it doesn't have to be bandwidth heavy, but the point is it can be bandwidth heavy. If you have a 2 gig cache that gets wiped out and then needs to be redownloaded, you've not done 2 gigs against their cap. Over time that adds up all because it's not persistent and you're at the mercy of the developer to either design persistent storage or not without any control by you.
I think there are problems here, just like the one game developer mentioned which is in sync to the concerns that I had when I learned about these changes myself and knowing what it's like to do game developer. Game developers hate garbage collection, which is what this is. They want managed memory on their terms, which this isn't unless any developer can say keep my data permanently on the device and not take part in this auto clean up. Which again, I'll ask, who isn't going to push for persistent storage then?
The biggest problem is how it faces the end user though because it's a paradigm shift in the user experience and you're changing that under the hood after training them to expect a different behavior. I'm not quite sure this is going to be hidden in the background to the end user.
Android and Google Play doesn't auto delete data when its deemed too old.
Platform agnostic and much higher quality video. It's a better format.
But it's not random/magic. You're sort of spreading FUD here. You put tags on all of your resource bundles. If a tag is in use it will be retained. If it's not in use it will be up to be purged. Tag/release happens on the bundle and persists through states. So even if you paused and rebooted, the bundle/tag would still be flagged. The app would actually have to release the tag (write to the bundle) for any sort of purge to happen.
Exactly. Dev has complete control over bundle tags being used/released. "So why doesn't a dev just hold on to all tags?" Exactly. And Apple has no requirement for them NOT to. That's not the point of app thinning. The point of app thinning is so that when you download an Apple TV game, you also aren't downloading the iPhone 4/4s assets, the iPhone 5/5s assets, the iPhone 6/6s/6Plus/6sPlus assets, iPad 2/mini assets, iPad 4/Air/Air2 assets, iPad Pro assets, etc. which is how it works now.
App thinning to the user should be almost all a plus. The devs however will have a learning curve with it. But again the upside is, if other manufacturers adopt this, the end result could be a level of backwards compatibility unprecedented. Think about all of the different assets AND 32-bit and 64-bit versions being done through this. Now take that out to PS4 and PS5, or Wii U and NX.
The Air2 is using a A8X whilst the ATV is using the crappier A8.
Oops. I was thinking of the Air that he the non-X CPU.
Still, Air2 A8X also needs to support ~25% more pixels. So not 1:1 comparable here, also considering this is clocked higher with no throttling than a stock A8.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Well, if it doesn't involve any auto-deletion, then it won't be a huge issue, assuming the user also has control over whether data is purged or not and it's not just up to the publisher (and, perhaps, Apple down the line).
eyeball_kid
Member
borghe, actually you are incorrect on this. Please read this developer document, specifically the Setting Preservation Policy section which states:
Also of note is the Low-Space Warning section:
The Preservation Priority is simply a hint to tvOS about how badly you need to keep the data around. tvOS will use this, in addition to how recently the data was accessed, as to when the resource should be purged in an instance where the Apple TV has become low on resources. Developers do not have the ability to force a resource to stick around. tvOS WILL delete it if it has to. And if an app fails to respond to a low-space warning by releasing resources it's not currently using, it can be terminated by tvOS if the system wasn't able to reclaim enough free space.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Well, shit, the guy who was amazed that people don't know how app thinning works apparently also does not know app thinning works?