It's so lame all the set-top box makers don't offer a cheap 'app' you can purchase to activate DTS bitstreaming. All of their hardware supports it, they just want to avoid the licensing fees. :/
Apple TV |OT|
- Thread starter wachie
- Start date
Yeah, that makes sense since they're no longer encumbered by a battery too. If VLC can do on-device transcoding/decoding, they should too.
Got the Shakes
Member
I hear you. Seems like the one compromise that every streaming box has (except maybe the Shield TV, but Plex ran awful on it for the few weeks I had one).
Sucks, but I have no problem just using airplay from my ipad to watch prime stuff.
Yeah but that's actually a load of shit in its disingenuousness.
Sure 'all are welcome', they just have to fork over 30% ... which in most cases would amount to Amazon actually taking a loss.
It's either sell at a loss or artificially increase your pricing on AppleTV a la Spotify. The main difference being unlike Spotify, such an increase would completely price you out of the market. That reality is basically Apple will be the only ones selling videos and rentals on this thing.
Amazon's move to not sell these on their site is a negotiating tactic to get a lower fee. If they can come to a reasonable compromise, Amazon Video will hit the App Store and these will be sold on their site.
Zeyphersan
Banned
So make a playback app. If VUDU makes an ATV app it'll be the same thing
Exactly! No one is signing up a subscription thru the app like YouTube Red or Spotify. We just want an app where we can just view our library or purchases on. What it is, is that they want to have people sign up subscriptions thru the TV app to generate more members and that's where the 30% cut comes from and they don't want to give Apple that cut. Hence when they said "all streaming devices sold on our storefront needs to be compatible with our offering".
Sucks since I signed up for Prime for the two day shipping. But the Video aspect was just a perk for me. So no loss. Still sucks that they are kinda forcing you to either AirPlay or buy their FireTV just to view Prime content.
I hope VUDU submits an app.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
That is what I am most curious about, honestly.
I have a Fire TV. Why won't Apple make an iTunes movie player app for it? This is the same argument.
I just want to play my amazon media on the apple tv. They need to stop acting like babies over there.
D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
Except Amazon makes players on every other device other than the Apple TV, and Apple doesn't make an iTunes app for any device at all. They aren't solely excluding the Fire TV the way Amazon is solely excluding the Apple TV.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Siri doesn't work with music? LAME! That better get fixed soon.
Amazon can just make a playback app like they do on the iOS App Store. Do they face this "sell at a loss or artificially increase your pricing" dilemma on the iOS App Store?
amazon video isnt available on Android TV either, so it's not just Apple
D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
I'm not an Android user, but I was under the impression that the same OS ran on all devices? Is that not true? Android TV has a separate app store, etc and isn't compatible with the Android that runs on tablets, phones, etc?
edit: is this not a version that would run on Android TV? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.amazon.avod&hl=en
infiniteloop
Member
So Amazon have to pay the 30% from the current Amazon Prime video app on iOS?
Early Next year:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/15...h-for-apple-music-on-apple-tv-early-next-year
Nope
PhoncipleBone
Banned
If the subscription were redeemed through iOS app itself, yes. But, they get around it, like many other apps, by making you pay or sign up using a web browser and not the actual app.
infiniteloop
Member
so, why not make a tvOS app that does the same thing then?
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Because they are being difficult and not getting it the way they WANT it to be like. That's why.
And cosumers will have to suffer the consequence along with it.
You'd have to ask Amazon (though I'm guessing them selling a directly competing box might have something to do with it)
After reading The Verge review, I also find the slam on QVC in here a little disingenuous. The point was the QVC app actually showed one of the many real possibilities of the future of TV. i.e. The classic QVC channel running like normal with full shopping capabilities built right into the display. Imagine something like American Idol where someone could win a vote immediately before the show even ended. Or better yet, a Whose Line Is It Anyway? with choices selected live by the viewers, etc. in theory this provides a step forward for studio budgeted shows to start approaching the accessibility of web shows. Sure the tech isn't new, but putting it directly on the TV gives them incentive (and likely bigger advertising dollars to go with the bigger screen)
D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
Interesting. Just how many different versions of Android and the Android store are there, then?
infiniteloop
Member
Right. So it's not Apple being disingenuous, and it's not about the '30%'. It's down to Amazon being petulant.
infiniteloop
Member
Apple TV 4 Orders Begin Shipping for October 30 Delivery
http://www.macrumors.com/2015/10/28/apple-tv-4-orders-shipping/
http://www.macrumors.com/2015/10/28/apple-tv-4-orders-shipping/
Marty Chinn
Member
Fire TV allows DTS bitstreaming.
Fixed that for you.
Amazon is selling a competing box to watch Amazon videos. They haven't put their video player on either Apple TV or the Nexus player. There would be a lot less reason to get the Fire TV if you can watch Amazon videos on other streaming boxes along with itunes/Google Play movies while the Fire TV can't access those other services.
Roku has the most compatible formats (Amazon, Google Play, Vudu). Disney has the right idea with their Disneymoviesanywhere movies.
eyeball_kid
Member
I think that's a pretty terrible solution. If they don't allow permanent downloads of content I purchase, it's a nonstarter for me. I have a crappy DSL connection and can barely stream 480p. If I buy a movie, I want it stored for as long as I choose. Otherwise, why have 64GB of storage?
Given the reviews are out, I can talk about this now I have a dev kit the text input is maybe one of the worst I've ever used. Having to type in all your music searches? Forget it. I guess if they update the Remote app that could work, but Siri already works with Apple Music on iOS, so I don't see what the delay is.
p.s. the Remote is really unergonomic, as the touchpad is at the top. It's like using an iPhone 6 but only swiping on the top part of the screen. I can't imagine that their hardware A-team was involved in its design.
Amazon doesn't really make money on the hardware, they've been pretty upfront about that. What they hate is:
1) Apple asking for any part of their digital sales
2) Apple forcing them into strange workarounds which creates buyer friction
Those two things directly cost them money, and are an increasingly important part of their business because they are higher margin than physical goods. It's a cache 22 because they either need to pay app store taxes which means their margins are always 30% more than Apple's and they sell at a disadvantage or they have a worse app experience because you can't pay in app. So they've gotten a lot more aggressive with pushing back, Prime is the 2nd most popular video service and will be a big black eye for Apple TV and not selling Apple TV devices will likely cost Apple millions in lost sales.
If they did then it would hold all of 12 movies, not even that really. Assuming 720p.
Good luck with that.
... and you're investing in an internet-driven set top box? Like buying a Tesla automobile when you live 5 hours from anything resembling civilization.
And as Apple keeps saying... APPS. That's why there's 64GB of storage. For most people who download internet video, that holds basically nothing and they know it.
Your expectations were seriously out of joint.
Putting it at the bottom isn't ideal, either, and the middle makes the touchpad far less useful as a game control method than it is already.
If Amazon Instant Video being unpresent were exclusively an issue with Apple TV, these arguments hold merit.
BUT, since people keep forgetting: What's Amazon's excuse for shunning Chromecast/Google? Google puts up none of these impediments, yet Amazon has no app there, either, and also removed Chromecast devices from being sold on Amazon.
So any reason proposed for Amazon not having an app on Apple TV gets thrown out and replaced with the most obvious answer:
Amazon wants its Instant Video users to use Amazon boxes, trying to be Apple without all the friction-free interoperability and multiple other hardware pieces of Apple's ecosystem that make that a less bitter pill to swallow, and blatantly shuns its biggest competitors by actively attempting to restrict competition in retail because it controls a major retail outlet and crying foul that their competitors are big meanies (while Google is giving them a WTF look over how much bullshit they're talking).
eyeball_kid
Member
I didn't have expectations; I got it as a second development device and to just see if I might use it personally. TV streaming is probably the only content I'd consume on it; their idea of movie consumption doesn't fit what I want.
Trust me, putting the touchpad in the middle would've been FAR better than having it at the top where your thumb is stretching to reach it all the time. It would make using as a single-hand control device much more plausible (trying to use motion control + the touchpad at the same time is really awkward/uncomfortable). I probably would've put it 3/4th of the way towards the bottom, so there'd be a row on the bottom, then the touchpad, and the rest of the buttons above it. I just tried that layout on the Remote and it feels much more comfortable.
Then you're just "stretching your thumb" to reach the buttons you've divided in half. Instead of grouping the physical buttons together, like a sane designer would.
And why stretch the thumb anyways? Loosen your grip on it, the part of the remote you want slides towards your thumb, re-tighten, you use it. I've been doing that with MUCH larger TV remotes with MUCH more spread out input layouts since the late 90s. And this has much less length/surface to cover. The amount of times you'd interact with buttons and the touchpad in tandem seems... incredibly remote. Pun intended.
Friction free interoperability? Like AirPlay that only works on Apple target devices? Or Apple apps that don't support chromecast or android (sorry if you bought a bunch of movies on Apple TV in the past and dare to buy an android phone, you can't play them there)? Or iMessage which has no windows or android client so is a poor experience unless you have entirely Apple kit as well as your friends/family?
Apple lean on people way more, but they have the install base to get away with it more than Amazon do. Both sides are being anti consumer twats
J-Pac says Siri will be expanded from its current set:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/johnpaczkow...s-finally-here?utm_term=.mvdPPnj18#.sbJaa8y7O
http://www.buzzfeed.com/johnpaczkow...s-finally-here?utm_term=.mvdPPnj18#.sbJaa8y7O
I was originally thinking the delay had to do with them getting their cable cutter service ready, but now I'm thinking it had more to do with problems with getting Siri integrated. That they don't have Siri fully integrated into all of their own apps, let alone the major third-party apps, seems to say quite a bit. And this is coming from a pretty huge Apple fan boy. The device look solid, and I'm sure I'm gonna love it, but this seems much more like a 1.0 device than a 4.0 device.
Google is a whole different story, Amazon does not like Google, even more than Apple they are direct competitors. Amazon and Google have tussled several times over Android, Amazon uses it, Google tries it's darndest to make sure nobody is using any non-Google variant. If you recall Amazon last year did put a variant Prime Video on Android using it to push their own app store. Google banhammered it because they don't want that competition. It was a long line of moves they've made to make it hard for alternate versions of Android including the Open Handset Alliance, Google Play certification and booting apps that sell apps. Amazon very likely has billions invested in their app store and definitely does not like getting pushed out. If you ever wonder why they got into the phone, tablet and STB game much of it is to keep that app front going without Google interference. This fight in particular will probably get uglier before it gets better.
Amazon not being on Apple TV in fact cost them a sale.
I bought Arsenic and Old Lace last year on iTunes... sadly somehow the file FROM APPLE has become corrupt on audio, and Apple lost (let lapse?) rights to the movie. So because they don't actively sell it anymore, apparently they are unable to request a new encode of the movie... So.... I went to buy it on amazon, except no Prime on Apple TV... So I bought it on YouTube. I can watch YouTube on more devices than Prime.
I did email Amazon about this. Their response was "we are sorry to hear that. Unfortunately we have nothing to say at this time about Amazon Prime coming to Apple TV". I even said in my email "If Amazon Prime was on Apple TV, I would absolutely buy movies from it as an alternative to the times the movie isn't on iTunes, or is much cheaper on Amazon"
I just read that the Air Video HD devs submitted a tvOS app to apple. that's good news for me. That app is my favorite lightweight video streaming app. it does server side transcoding and is very fast and has good options for subtitles, too.
if that's on the app store early and works well, i'll jump in quick.
if that's on the app store early and works well, i'll jump in quick.
acheron_xl
Member
The faith that there would probably be an Air Video HD app is what instantly sold me on a new box. I can Airplay just fine, but having a native app will be great.
exactly. AirVideo airplay works fine but is a little cumbersome compared to having a native app on the box
As long as there's no means to sign-up for the service within the app, and it doesn't contain a web link to sign up, Apple doesn't ask for anything.
Sign-up on Amazon.com, sign-in in the app. It's all within the rules.
Amazon's just being... Amazon.
LyleLanley
Banned
Does Siri work with that content?
metsallica
Member
I kind of want one of these (gadgetlust) but will never use it to watch stuff. That said, I've been an iPhone user since 2008 and have spent thousands on apps; the prospect of playing some games on the TV with a controller is somewhat appealing. I know they need to be TVOS'd but do we have any sense yet on how many games are making that jump? Apps don't just work on Apple TV (kind of the way an iPhone app "doubles" on iPad), right? I kind of feel like I should wait a year to see if this all pans out, but then again this is probably not a "yearly update" device given its history. Of course, that could change if it starts flying off the shelves! Stupid gadgetlust.
infiniteloop
Member
From the previews that are out, there seems to be a good number of ports from iOS as well as some Exclusive games like Beat Sports available at launch.
eyeball_kid
Member
Basically, the bottom two-thirds of the Remote are comfortable to use one-handed. I tested my layout on the Remote; there's no stretching of thumbs because the height of the bottom two-thirds is almost exactly the height of the 5-series iPhones. That's the height they should've made it because Apple's own studies confirmed that the 4 and 5 series phones were optimal for one-handed use. Instead they made it taller than the 6, with the one-handed issues that comes with.
Yeah, I've used large remotes before as well and haven't had an issue. I haven't put my finger (no pun intended) on why the Remote feels so unergonomic yet (a colleague of mine agrees), but I think it's because it's so thin that it doesn't feel comfortable to hold in the palm. Instead of your fingers loosely holding a wider remote, you have to wrap your fingers around it. This seems to create more strain as you move your thumb around. Also, the bottom and sides of the Remote are fairly slick, so you can't easily adjust the position in your hand. On top of that, the Remote's way of selecting items is by clicking the touchpad, not tapping. Since the touchpad is at the top with your thumb already extended, clicking in this position (an action you have to do often while navigating the TV) is uncomfortable.
But I'm sure you still don't believe me, so you can wait until tomorrow and draw your own conclusions.
I don't believe so. I couldn't get local sharing working during the betas, but I believe only video content is Siri searchable right now. Searching everything else is done with the (as David Pogue put it) "excruciating" text input UI.
I'm still surprised Apple allowed this name. Every time I see it, I think for a second that it's connected with Apple's Beats.
FlyStarJay
Member
just got a text from apple. my delicery is coming tomorrow with DPD. They are amazing and they are the best.
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