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Apple TV |OT|

Van Owen

Banned
Plex question: Is there a way to have the video not transcode? Because it's like watching a youtube video on dialup sometimes and I always use the same settings in Handbrake. And this is on my home network via the Fire app, not remote at all.

It's dictated by the device you're watching on based on it's media support. If it's transcoding audio and video, you're using the wrong handbrake settings.
 
Why not have a low priced model for cheapskates? It's the iPhone 5C for the TV.

Well I think there's a difference between offering an iPhone 5C to try and attract a lower price point demographic and wanting a platform dead to push everyone towards a new standard with the ATV4. Leaving the option to not go towards what they want isn't how you kill a platform and push people towards the platform you do want to focus on. So I get it if they want to offer multiple tiers, but then that doesn't sound to me that they want the platform dead.
 

Tobor

Member
Well I think there's a difference between offering an iPhone 5C to try and attract a lower price point demographic and wanting a platform dead to push everyone towards a new standard with the ATV4. Leaving the option to not go towards what they want isn't how you kill a platform and push people towards the platform you do want to focus on. So I get it if they want to offer multiple tiers, but then that doesn't sound to me that they want the platform dead.

No, I don't think they want it dead either. They want it around as a bargain tier which makes the $149 models more attractive.

I jumped into the conversation late, sorry if I missed what you were getting at.
 
No, I don't think they want it dead either. They want it around as a bargain tier which makes the $149 models more attractive.

I jumped into the conversation late, sorry if I missed what you were getting at.

It's actually a shame for Apple that they were forced to drop the price to be competitive. At its old price of $99, it makes the jump to $149 seem a lot easier. So you'd still have your lower tier at $99 for those that want it and basic functionality, but it's an easier upsell at $149. I think going from $69 to $149 is a bit harder to do. For a set top box, it feels like the price has been set with an expectation of $100 or less and you'd have to be really compelling to go beyond that. So, it'll be interesting to see how the apps will make the difference early on to push someone to that higher level, especially with the $69 version still out there.
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
I kinda get why they have to. You don't want someone buying a game and then not being able to play it because they don't have a controller. That will cause problems.

Yup.



And it's not to say devs won't also support real controllers (and all but recommend them).
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Gaming .. pause game, launch Netflix app, pause movie, launch HBO etc. On top of the Siri capabilities and what not, especially Siri presenting you information on multiple overlays and you keep sorting through Siri's results. I'm not even sure if you watched the keynote.

none of what you talked about is true multi-tasking and none of it would be enhanced by a bigger CPU. The Siri stuff (weather, sports, etc) was VERY lightweight.

I also do like how you state "I'm not sure if you even watched the keynote", yet you mention stuff they did on the keynote with...... the included A8...

So yeah.. I'm good with what I said. Multi-tasking is not "I have a short attention span and want to switch between 10 things in a row". Multi-tasking is having literally multiple applications running and PERFORMING ACTIONS simultaneously, something (as I said) unlikely to occur on a central generally single threaded usage device like a TV STB. It's not a productivity device, not being positioned as one, and therefore loses a lot of the need for pure horsepower to facilitate doing many things at one time like many would need to on a productivity device.
 

Van Owen

Banned
Looks like Alexa is coming to Fire TV, which should put it more on par with the new Apple TV.
alexa-coming-to-fire-tv-header.jpg

http://www.aftvnews.com/exclusive-amazons-alexa-voice-assistant-coming-to-amazon-fire-tv/#more-9049
 
Is it known yet with this new Apple TV will be compatible with Harmony remotes?

I have the Harmony Hub so I can control everything attached to my TV (with my phone or the remote) and I thought I read somewhere that it wouldn't be compatible with this new model for some reason.
 

Guess Who

Banned
Is it known yet with this new Apple TV will be compatible with Harmony remotes?

I have the Harmony Hub so I can control everything attached to my TV (with my phone or the remote) and I thought I read somewhere that it wouldn't be compatible with this new model for some reason.

I don't think it's known, but it has an IR receiver on the front, and the previous Apple TV could be programmed to work with pretty much any IR remote, so it'd be weird for them to drop support for it.
 
I don't think it's known, but it has an IR receiver on the front, and the previous Apple TV could be programmed to work with pretty much any IR remote, so it'd be weird for them to drop support for it.

It also supports HDMI-CEC which could allow a Harmony remote to control it too.
 
I don't think it's known, but it has an IR receiver on the front, and the previous Apple TV could be programmed to work with pretty much any IR remote, so it'd be weird for them to drop support for it.

Cool, I don't know what podcast or article it was that said it wouldn't work with Harmony, but they didn't give an explanation as why it wouldn't so I was confused if it was true or not.

Regardless, I'll be waiting until after it launches just to confirm. I may not even need it since my old Apple TV is actually working just fine ever since I got a new wireless router (it used to drop connections all the time, but it turned out to be my old ass router). If it DOES have Harmony support and it was advanced enough to support the Siri voice stuff with the phone app I might be persuaded to upgrade.
 
It's actually a shame for Apple that they were forced to drop the price to be competitive. At its old price of $99, it makes the jump to $149 seem a lot easier. So you'd still have your lower tier at $99 for those that want it and basic functionality, but it's an easier upsell at $149. I think going from $69 to $149 is a bit harder to do. For a set top box, it feels like the price has been set with an expectation of $100 or less and you'd have to be really compelling to go beyond that. So, it'll be interesting to see how the apps will make the difference early on to push someone to that higher level, especially with the $69 version still out there.
Hopefully the UHD model will come within a year and a half to two years, and the ATV 4 will become the new $99/$69 price point model. Or alternatively, I could see both ATV4's dropping in price to $129 and $99 next year.

I mean, unless the app store really takes off and gives Apple a competitive advantage, it's hard to compete against $30-$100 devices.

Also, iPad Mini 4's A8 with 2GB of RAM runs at 1.5GHz, .1GHz faster than the iPhone 6.

Do we think we have our clock speed of the AppleTV? Maybe just with slightly less throttling? Or do you think we might get a higher bin yet?
 

giga

Member
I can see it being clocked even higher, given the size of the device and lack of battery. I wonder if Geekbench or other benchmarking utilities will be available to test it though.

Also…

CO-r36eVEAA_zLk.jpg:large
 

Tobor

Member
Hopefully the UHD model will come within a year and a half to two years, and the ATV 4 will become the new $99/$69 price point model. Or alternatively, I could see both ATV4's dropping in price to $129 and $99 next year.

I mean, unless the app store really takes off and gives Apple a competitive advantage, it's hard to compete against $30-$100 devices.

Also, iPad Mini 4's A8 with 2GB of RAM runs at 1.5GHz, .1GHz faster than the iPhone 6.

Do we think we have our clock speed of the AppleTV? Maybe just with slightly less throttling? Or do you think we might get a higher bin yet?

There's a huge market still out there that doesn't own a streaming player yet, $30 hasn't swayed them. The App Store will absolutely be a competitive advantage, and I'm betting we see some actual Apple advertising this time. $149 is still cheap enough to be an impulse buy while picking up a new iPhone 6S or iPad Pro.
 

Epix

Member
I wonder if these dev units are full functioning consumer units or if they're running a tagged version of the firmware that won't allow it do all the consumer functionality.

Basically, I wondering if I snagged a completely functional new Apple TV for $1.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
I wonder if these dev units are full functioning consumer units or if they're running a tagged version of the firmware that won't allow it do all the consumer functionality.

Basically, I wondering if I snagged a completely functional new Apple TV for $1.

Did you have to register the UDID? I'd guess they are just... plain old Apple TVs.. I don't recall Apple having ever created "development kits" in the past. Can't imagine it being true here either. Whether a device is a dev device or not is simply controlled by attaching the UDID to the developer account and putting the dev profile on it.

Disappointed to see Apple reverse their stance on controllers.. I mean I get it... sort of. At this moment the controller is an accessory. And they don't want to deal with refunds or bad press from games being unable to be played. It's also a shame that Apple refuses to build their own PS360 controller for a bundle (or include SteelSeries' controller). Just seems like a massively missed opportunity.. granted for a market that (right now) Apple doesn't really have a dying interest to enter.. still...
 

SuperPac

Member
I wonder if these dev units are full functioning consumer units or if they're running a tagged version of the firmware that won't allow it do all the consumer functionality.

Basically, I wondering if I snagged a completely functional new Apple TV for $1.

You didn't (at least, not with the currently available software).
 

Terrell

Member
Before going into some replies, I just want to point and laugh at how absolutely tone-deaf this piece from The New Yorker is on this topic.

This was an overstatement. The Apple TV demonstration débuted with an (admittedly handsome) animated screensaver, of all things—that digital curtain that drops whenever your back is turned, whenever, in fact, you’re not interested in Apple TV. And behind the drape? We saw a host of features that are already familiar to Google Android users: the ability to search and filter films or television shows by director or actor, for example; or to rewind and fast forward via voice control; or to connect to streaming-music services.

It's like they don't even know what company they're talking about. Apple lives in markets where competitors do the same thing and often did it first. Consumers of Apple hardware seem to be of the mind that they want something that does it best in their estimation. And no one who has tried it has yet denied that Apple TV has more going for it in both perception and actuality with regards to being best in class in its product category.

In the TV context, the App Store cannot have the same urgency or centrality. Most consumers will feel satisfied once they have downloaded the apps that show them their favorite television shows. And, in the long term, the App Store or something like it will inevitably come installed on the menu screen of every smart TV that rolls off the production line. The set-top box will become redundant. It is in this way alone that Apple TV will participate in “the future of television.”

Completely discounting the flaws in the Smart TV experience as though it's somehow on par with what Apple is offering from a usability standpoint is also laughable. If Smart TVs were so great at doing the things they do, Apple TV wouldn't even earn a second glance. But they well and truly don't have an experience worth talking about and everyone knows it, except for the writer of this piece, apparently. TV manufacturers have left so much on the table - or on the TV stand, if you will - that it's rather embarrassing. Redundancy can't exist in a market that doesn't refine its offerings, instead of just ticking a box and leaving it to rot like "Smart TV" seems to have.

And from the standpoint of apps, there is not the kind of brand loyalty at play in the television market to offer platform-locked apps, so the need for something to plug into the television will always be there so that the things they buy carry over, which is part of why the Apple ecosystem flourished the way it has.


It's actually a shame for Apple that they were forced to drop the price to be competitive. At its old price of $99, it makes the jump to $149 seem a lot easier. So you'd still have your lower tier at $99 for those that want it and basic functionality, but it's an easier upsell at $149. I think going from $69 to $149 is a bit harder to do. For a set top box, it feels like the price has been set with an expectation of $100 or less and you'd have to be really compelling to go beyond that. So, it'll be interesting to see how the apps will make the difference early on to push someone to that higher level, especially with the $69 version still out there.

I think you're going to see retailers like Best Buy drop the bargain Apple TV from their stores first and it becoming a de facto Apple exclusive, should there be an actual marketing push for the new model. Apple TV as it exists today is not a regularly moving stock, and stores will be justified pulling the SKU off shelves to retail only the more marketable model and making the prior model web-exclusive first before eventually not re-ordering more inventory.

It's pretty well an inevitability that it will fade away even if Apple keeps selling it (which it won't do for long, either), in favour of a better-selling new hotness that retailers can reasonably expect to move. And with the prior model off store shelves, it's not that hard of a sell when it's the only model on offer and it's the one that is (likely) actually advertised for the 2nd time in Apple TV's entire history, if not the very first. The reason Apple TV sells so poorly is that so few people know it even exists.

Apple wants Apple TV out of "hobby" status, and it's set to achieve that. Hell, this is the first time I can recall that their TV ambitions got their own section on the product header of their website. They're ready to market this thing for all it's worth, previous generation be damned.

"Cheapskates" perfectly describes the dolts who decided to remove outputs on the new 150-200 dollar device.

I like how you used "outputs" in plural when only one was removed.

There's a huge market still out there that doesn't own a streaming player yet, $30 hasn't swayed them. The App Store will absolutely be a competitive advantage, and I'm betting we see some actual Apple advertising this time. $149 is still cheap enough to be an impulse buy while picking up a new iPhone 6S or iPad Pro.

Yeah, you've got it. They've got a more compelling product, and a more compelling product makes a higher price point an irrelevance, especially when it's still sub-$200.

And yeah, they're going to advertise this, all right, especially if they want them in homes before they enact on some of their larger ambitions for it.
 

Terrell

Member
Has anyone considered the possibility of a future Apple TV iteration or firmware update having an optional Blu-Ray disc player to plug into it via USB Type-C? I could see Apple gunning to be one of the only devices hooked to the TV (or the only one, if you're a traditionally non-gaming household) and would really change the nature of the set-top box for a lot of people. Just one device that does it all and does it with a friendly UI.
 

MrGerbils

Member
Has anyone considered the possibility of a future Apple TV iteration or firmware update having an optional Blu-Ray disc player to plug into it via USB Type-C? I could see Apple gunning to be one of the only devices hooked to the TV (or the only one, if you're a traditionally non-gaming household) and would really change the nature of the set-top box for a lot of people. Just one device that does it all and does it with a friendly UI.

The future of tv is not disc based...
 
Has anyone considered the possibility of a future Apple TV iteration or firmware update having an optional Blu-Ray disc player to plug into it via USB Type-C? I could see Apple gunning to be one of the only devices hooked to the TV (or the only one, if you're a traditionally non-gaming household) and would really change the nature of the set-top box for a lot of people. Just one device that does it all and does it with a friendly UI.

You should look up Apple's history with blu-ray and their current thoughts on disc media with their desktop and notebook lines.
 

Terrell

Member
You should look up Apple's history with blu-ray and their current thoughts on disc media with their desktop and notebook lines.

Yes, but this isn't a desktop or notebook computer. This is a box that Apple wants under your TV. Which will likely be next to a device that reads movies via physical media. Apple isn't going to force people to give up their existing physical media collection any time soon, so a disc drive will have a place in the living room for a few years to come.
Apple could easily steal that market out from under other hardware makers if it integrated Siri control into the consumer's Blu-Ray watching experience.
If it wants to have a place in more living rooms, an option for a physical media reader with Apple TV would be a way to make that happen. And make more money on the peripheral to do it, to boot.
 
Yes, but this isn't a desktop or notebook computer. This is a box that Apple wants under your TV. Which will likely be next to a device that reads movies via physical media. Apple isn't going to force people to give up their existing physical media collection any time soon, so a disc drive will have a place in the living room for a few years to come.
Apple could easily steal that market out from under other hardware makers if it integrated Siri control into the consumer's Blu-Ray watching experience.
If it wants to have a place in more living rooms, an option for a physical media reader with Apple TV would be a way to make that happen. And make more money on the peripheral to do it, to boot.

I'll say this plainly, but Apple will never make a blu-ray drive for Apple TV. Never.
 

Terrell

Member
I'll say this plainly, but Apple will never make a blu-ray drive for Apple TV. Never.

Well, if Apple wants to cede the money it could make and the time people would invest more of in its new platform by having that completely optional peripheral, so be it, I suppose.

I would think they'd want people to use the device more and offer more differentiation from their competitor's offerings.

----

Speaking of differentiation: TechHive tackles the "but other set-top boxes have voice functions too" bulletpoint and show off how Siri ultimately stacks up against them (spoiler: Siri Wins, Flawless Victory)
 
Well, if Apple wants to cede the money it could make and the time people would invest more of in its new platform by having that completely optional peripheral, so be it, I suppose.

I would think they'd want people to use the device more and offer more differentiation from their competitor's offerings.

An insignificant amount of people will buy any add-on for the Apple TV, let alone a blu-ray drive. Several years ago, Apple bet heavily that streaming and downloading was the future, which is why they removed all disc drives from their desktops and notebooks ("Blu-ray is a bag of hurt"). They aren't ceding any money. It's a done deal. It's over. I know it may be something you want, but it isn't something Apple wants, nor will make, nor does the vast audience of people who want Apple TV.

Again, the chance of Apple making a blu-ray add-on for Apple TV is the same percentage chance that Apple will make a blu-ray add-on for the iPad.
 

Xelinis

Junior Member
Well, if Apple wants to cede the money it could make and the time people would invest more of in its new platform by having that completely optional peripheral, so be it, I suppose.

I would think they'd want people to use the device more and offer more differentiation from their competitor's offerings.

Physical media is dying, and the iTunes store catalog for movies and TV is incredibly healthy (not too mention other streaming solutions like Netflix or Hulu).

One thing Apple is incredibly good at is playing the long game, and adding Blu-ray support is going to add nothing to that.
 
Well, if Apple wants to cede the money it could make and the time people would invest more of in its new platform by having that completely optional peripheral, so be it, I suppose.

I would think they'd want people to use the device more and offer more differentiation from their competitor's offerings.

----

Speaking of differentiation: TechHive tackles the "but other set-top boxes have voice functions too" bulletpoint and show off how Siri ultimately stacks up against them (spoiler: Siri Wins, Flawless Victory)

Sometimes leaving a little money on the table is the right thing to do. It's part of being focused. Companies that run around and desperately trying to get every single conceivable customer very often spin themselves into oblivion.

An add-on adds unnecessary complexity. Apple wants users to buy digital stuff that they get a cut of, not blurays from Best Buy. It will never ever, ever, happen.
 
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