Are America's children overmedicated?

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i for one believe that whoever uses penicillin is a wuss

tough it out like our forefathers you pansy
 
Both over- and under-. There are some kids like those in that documentary whose parents and doctors make questionable decisions, but some kids who could benefit from medication aren't getting it.
 
The baseline for feeling normal has been thrown off. Some depression, some ADD, some problems and uniqueness to your outlook used to be a part of life, your particular burden to bear.

But the drug ads would have you believe not feeling perfect all the time always indicates a medical condition now.

Don't ask your doctor about any medicines. He's the one that should let us know about one if we need it.

Let's save the drugs for the truly chronic cases, shall we?
 
Yeah, I'd tend to think so. I worry about children being misdiagnosed with different disorders when it's really rooted in discipline.
 
Eh...yes, but I don't think its because the kids don't have problems, its because we're not interested in investing the effort required to treat them in ways that don't involve medication
 
Another advantage of a nationalised healthcare system, when the system is not for profit the healthcare providers actually need to think whether this person will actually need this medication.
 
The baseline for feeling normal has been thrown off. Some depression, some ADD, some problems and uniqueness to your outlook used to be a part of life, your particular burden to bear.

But the drug ads would have you believe not feeling perfect all the time always indicates a medical condition now.

Don't ask your doctor about any medicines. He's the one that should let us know about one if we need it.

Let's save the drugs for the truly chronic cases, shall we?

You mean the medications they start recommending because they are given "gifts" by the pharmaceutical companies? Usually it's not people asking for the medicine.
 
Did you misspell citizens?
/Thread, pretty much. The amount of legal drug use is astounding thanks to the government as dealer system. It's permanent existence is helped by the fact that they're taxed and insurance companies are involved entrenched in it as a extremely profitable market.
 
Another advantage of a nationalised healthcare system, when the system is not for profit the healthcare providers actually need to think whether this person will actually need this medication.
Correct. Why would a doctor acting in his own rational self-interest give a shit? Throw the bottle of pills at kids whether they need it or not and get paid.
 
I wish I could answer, but I feel indifferent about things since I started taking Zoloft. Everyone and everything is fine by me. Mmmm. :)
 
You mean the medications they start recommending because they are given "gifts" by the pharmaceutical companies? Usually it's not people asking for the medicine.

Oh yeah, you are correct in your point there. I thought we could start by hedging the fact that pharm companies are advertising directly to consumers to hassle their doctors for drugs, and then move on to holding doctors accountable for their willingness to become pushers.
 
Correct. Why would a doctor acting in his own rational self-interest give a shit? Throw the bottle of pills at kids whether they need it or not and get paid.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that any given doctor is an unethical scumbag.
 
I have had attention problems my whole life. I bet if I had visited the doctor regularly at a younger age, I would've been prescribed some form of Ritalin. I'm pretty sure Ritalin is a fairly popular one to hand out.

And as for the adolescent group; I'd like to see them overmedicated.....with birth control.
 
I don't think it's reasonable to assume that any given doctor is an unethical scumbag.

Nope. Just... swayable. And perhaps swamped with patients that could use a comprehensive overview to find the source of their issues, a comprehensive treatment system including behavior therapy to actually move them to a better status, and a healthcare system that wants to penalize them for ordering this kind of treatment and would prefer to peddle drugs that don't actually fix problems.
 
Correct. Why would a doctor acting in his own rational self-interest give a shit? Throw the bottle of pills at kids whether they need it or not and get paid.

Most doctors do not want to prescribe antibiotics. In the case of pediatrics, it's the demanding parents that insist their children get the drugs. There are two conflicting scenarios I will present to you:

1. Most cases of sore throat are viral, few cases are bacterial. In both cases the body's own immune system can fight off the illness. However, allowing this without medical intervention puts the child at risk of developing Acute Rheumatic Fever, a disease process that takes place in which the body's immune system mistakes heart valves for bacterial proteins, and attacks the heart (very bad). This happens in a very small percentage of cases, but you can prevent it 100% of the time by prescribing antibiotics.

solution: wait two weeks, if symptoms to do not improve prescribe antibiotics.

2. Most cases of gastrointestinal disorders are either viral, or from toxins from the bacteria but not the bacteria themselves. The body will rid itself of illness with very little complication. Prescribing antibiotics contributes to global bacterial resistance of antibiotics.

solution: withhold treatment unless absolutely necessary.

Both cases, patients demand therapy for their ailments. Adamant patients can scare physicians into believing they will lose their patients, or face lawsuit in the case of possible misdiagnosis even though they are following guidelines.

Physician's solution: prescribe antibiotics.


also, here is a comic a pharmacology professor of mine put on his class web page.

b3rHZ.gif
 
Most doctors do not want to prescribe antibiotics. In the case of pediatrics, it's the demanding parents that insist their children get the drugs. There are two conflicting scenarios I will present to you:

1. Most cases of sore throat are viral, few cases are bacterial. In both cases the body's own immune system can fight off the illness. However, allowing this without medical intervention puts the child at risk of developing Acute Rheumatic Fever, a disease process that takes place in which the body's immune system mistakes heart valves for bacterial proteins, and attacks the heart (very bad). This happens in a very small percentage of cases, but you can prevent it 100% of the time by prescribing antibiotics.

solution: wait two weeks, if symptoms to do not improve prescribe antibiotics.

2. Most cases of gastrointestinal disorders are either viral, or from toxins from the bacteria but not the bacteria themselves. The body will rid itself of illness with very little complication. Prescribing antibiotics contributes to global bacterial resistance of antibiotics.

solution: withhold treatment unless absolutely necessary.

Both cases, patients demand therapy for their ailments. Adamant patients can scare physicians into believing they will lose their patients, or face lawsuit in the case of possible misdiagnosis even though they are following guidelines.

Physician's solution: prescribe antibiotics.


also, here is a comic a pharmacology professor of mine put on his class web page.

b3rHZ.gif


So its just give them the dam medicine so they wont sue or stop complaining??
 
I used to take like five pills a day when I was little. The first was to counteract some ADD or Bipolar or some shit that a psychiatrist diagnosed me with after knowing me for five minutes, and the rest were to counteract side effects, or to counteract the side effects of the pills to counteract side effects.

And the best thing? It didn't help. The only thing that changed was I was exhausted pretty much all the time and my teachers got mad at me for sleeping in class.
 
I just recently realized most of our tv commercials are selling medication so maybe our youth are being given too much drugs.
 
Yes.

Children aren't wired to be quiet and be still at 5, 10, 12...etc. Teachers and parents want to turn their kids into zombies because it's too hard to deal with them.
 
I watched a report on tv that teachers tell the parents to put their 5-8 year old children on Ritalin because they were hyper active. I found that repulsive honestly.
 
I watched a report on tv that teachers tell the parents to put their 5-8 year old children on Ritalin because they were hyper active. I found that repulsive honestly.

Not that it matters much, but the official guidelines state that a physician should be the one to initiate ADHD screening/treatment, and not a teacher. The fact that they needed to state that in the guidelines is telling.
 
I work at a large, influential, medical center with a top-notch Department of Psychiatry. I will say that treatment tends to be fairly conservative here, with regards to things like providing antibiotics for minor illnesses without clear evidence of a bacterial infection, or providing pain medication for something like low back pain. We're probably not representative of the US as a whole, especially as physicians here are salaried, rather than getting paid based on patients seen, or procedures preformed (a really great system that I wish more medical centers could put in place, but that's another story).

I have two friends who are child psychiatry fellows (fellows are physicians completing advanced specialty training beyond that required for a residency*). It's a field that I'm interested in, but I worry about the prevailing view that child psychiatry is all about putting small children on powerful medications that haven't really been studied in pediatric populations. So I went ahead and asked my friends what their experience was like with children and medications.

They both acknowledged that they see plenty of parents who come in demanding medications for their kids, often in response to what turn out to be fairly minor behavioral problems. They also see lots of referrals from outside medical centers, and some kids do come here on crazy amounts of medications (it's generally the small children diagnosed as bipolar, which is sort of a hot, but controversial, diagnosis right now, who end up on, say, five different meds).

Here, however, the emphasis is on psychotherapy, rather than psychopharmacology - the drugs are reserved for either patients with really clear diagnoses, or for patients who don't respond to more conservative treatments. This is apparently how physicians are trained here, as both of my friends independently gave me more or less the exact same answer.

One friend did, however, describe the ADHD medications as "the closest things to magical cures I've ever seen." For the patients who make really good candidates for the meds - and there aren't really that many, she said - the difference after a single dose can be dramatic. You can take a kid who cannot function, who literally cannot sit still, and you'll see them after they've been on medications for a short period of time, and they'll talk about being able to concentrate at school, read a book, etc. The kid will be much happier, the parents will be incredibly happy, the teachers will be happy. The problem is, it's just generally not that easy and not that quick. When it works, it's about as impressive as it gets in medicine, but not everyone needs the drugs or will respond well to them.


So that's how things are here, at any rate. This is a unique place, but we are a huge medical center, and one of the best in the world. There are certainly places where the standard of care is to churn through patients as quickly as possible, and that generally means some sloppy psychopharmacology, but that's not how physicians are trained everywhere. And it's probably as silly to completely dismiss ever putting any kid on psychiatric medications as it is to throw drugs at any kids who deviates the slightest bit from "the norm," whatever that is.


*Do people already know that? Most people I meet aren't really sure what the difference is between a medical student, an intern, a resident, and a fellow.
 
I work at a large, influential, medical center with a top-notch Department of Psychiatry. I will say that treatment tends to be fairly conservative here, with regards to things like providing antibiotics for minor illnesses without clear evidence of a bacterial infection, or providing pain medication for something like low back pain. We're probably not representative of the US as a whole, especially as physicians here are salaried, rather than getting paid based on patients seen, or procedures preformed (a really great system that I wish more medical centers could put in place, but that's another story).

I have two friends who are child psychiatry fellows (fellows are physicians completing advanced specialty training beyond that required for a residency*). It's a field that I'm interested in, but I worry about the prevailing view that child psychiatry is all about putting small children on powerful medications that haven't really been studied in pediatric populations. So I went ahead and asked my friends what their experience was like with children and medications.

They both acknowledged that they see plenty of parents who come in demanding medications for their kids, often in response to what turn out to be fairly minor behavioral problems. They also see lots of referrals from outside medical centers, and some kids do come here on crazy amounts of medications (it's generally the small children diagnosed as bipolar, which is sort of a hot, but controversial, diagnosis right now, who end up on, say, five different meds).

Here, however, the emphasis is on psychotherapy, rather than psychopharmacology - the drugs are reserved for either patients with really clear diagnoses, or for patients who don't respond to more conservative treatments. This is apparently how physicians are trained here, as both of my friends independently gave me more or less the exact same answer.

One friend did, however, describe the ADHD medications as "the closest things to magical cures I've ever seen." For the patients who make really good candidates for the meds - and there aren't really that many, she said - the difference after a single dose can be dramatic. You can take a kid who cannot function, who literally cannot sit still, and you'll see them after they've been on medications for a short period of time, and they'll talk about being able to concentrate at school, read a book, etc. The kid will be much happier, the parents will be incredibly happy, the teachers will be happy. The problem is, it's just generally not that easy and not that quick. When it works, it's about as impressive as it gets in medicine, but not everyone needs the drugs or will respond well to them.


So that's how things are here, at any rate. This is a unique place, but we are a huge medical center, and one of the best in the world. There are certainly places where the standard of care is to churn through patients as quickly as possible, and that generally means some sloppy psychopharmacology, but that's not how physicians are trained everywhere. And it's probably as silly to completely dismiss ever putting any kid on psychiatric medications as it is to throw drugs at any kids who deviates the slightest bit from "the norm," whatever that is.


*Do people already know that? Most people I meet aren't really sure what the difference is between a medical student, an intern, a resident, and a fellow.

Sorry dude, grumpy GAFers who think that discipline solves everything have invalidated your entire field of study.
 
I still remember back in my freshman year of HS when a girl complained of a headache, and another girl pulled out some aspirin for her out of her purse. I couldn't believe that she carried around aspirin at 13, but everyone acted like I was crazy for being shocked.
 
What does 'overmedicated' mean? If there are drugs out there that substantially improve your life, what's the harm in taking them? That's what they were created for.

I understand the over-indulgence in antibiotics is a problem, but there is a great pressure (on parents) from the schools for your child not to miss too many classes. Not to mention the financial drain that it can cause among single parent families or families that have two working people (to arrange for child care for your child that has to stay home for longer periods of time).

There is also great pressure among the schools for your child to behave. Especially in private schools were they can be turned away with repeated offenses. Almost every class has a 'daily behavior chart' that is supposed to work as a reward system for kids, but quite often just reinforces who the troubled kids are and then demands of the parents that corrective action needs to be taken. So, it's not surprising if exasperated parents turn to medication to help them.
 
When I was a child I had a very severe case of ADHD and I responded very favorably to Ritalin. If it wasn't for my parents willingness to try medication who knows where I'd be today.
 
Yes and no. Kids with means can be overmedicated. Kids in lower socioeconomic situations that are actually sick are very undermedicated.
 
One friend did, however, describe the ADHD medications as "the closest things to magical cures I've ever seen." For the patients who make really good candidates for the meds - and there aren't really that many, she said - the difference after a single dose can be dramatic. You can take a kid who cannot function, who literally cannot sit still, and you'll see them after they've been on medications for a short period of time, and they'll talk about being able to concentrate at school, read a book, etc. The kid will be much happier, the parents will be incredibly happy, the teachers will be happy. The problem is, it's just generally not that easy and not that quick. When it works, it's about as impressive as it gets in medicine, but not everyone needs the drugs or will respond well to them.

I still think this is disgusting. Do people really think a giant ADHD epidemic has swept over the country in the past decade?
 
Some teachers also overreact when kids don't pay attention. I'm totally fine, but more than one elementary school teacher has told my parents that I have hearing problems or attention problems and should see a doctor.

There's a difference between a 6-year-old being bored in school and a kid who has real attention or learning problems.
 
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